DAN HSLP-48: A powerful sub 50mm heatsink

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by dondan, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    [​IMG]

    DAN Cases is back with a new idea...


    This time I try to develop the best CPU heatsink under 50mm. The aim is a heatsink that keeps the temperatures up to 15°C lower than existing competitors like the C7 or L9i. Furthermore I will focus on noise level, because current heatsinks that come close to the side panels in cases like A4-SFX or Sentry generate some disturbing noise because of air turbulence



    Introduction:

    The project name is HSLP-48 (HeatSinkLowProfile-48). The current design is based on Nexus Low 7000 R2 series but the HSLP-48 is wider. The idea is a heatsink with a sandwich layout. On the bottom there is the CPU plate with six heatpipes, after that a 100mm FAN (92mm mountpoints) with a thickness of 14-15mm and on top 60 fins with a thickness of 18,5mm. The total hight will be 47-48mm. The fins will be above the RAM and the I/O area (audio, USB s.o.) of the motherboard. The fan will be mounted with two clips. The clips allows you to mount the fan centered or you can shift it to the left or right side. You will be able to mount 92mm, 100mm or 120mm fans. You can mount a full size 120mm fan on top or a low profile 120mm fan (max. 15mm) under the heatsink. The distance from the fan to the side panels will be min. 16mm so it will not generate air turbulence. I plan to cooperate with CoolJag (the company that mades the Nexus) on this project.




    Specifications:

    Socket Support: 1155. 1151, 1150, 1156, 2011 square and narrow Ilm, AM4
    Total Dimensions: 48 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 145 (L) mm - including heatpipes
    Fin Area Dimension: 16 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 116,5 (L) mm, 59 fins
    Material: copper base, copper heatpipes, aluminum fins
    Heatpipes: 6x 6mm heatpipes up to 180W
    Total Surface: ~114.000mm²
    Price Tag: 50-70€



    Compatibility:

    The heatsink should be as compatible as possible. You can use RAM with normal height, you will have full access to the PCIe port. You can access the SATA ports (in some cases you need angled connectors). The heatsink will work on boards with the socket close to the PCIe port and close to the topside. If the 100mm fan will not fit between the I/O area and RAM (ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Impact) you can use a default 92mm fan. If you have more space you can mount a 120mm on top. Currently there is only one board from the Z270 series that gives problems. I talk about the ASUS ROG Strix Z270I Gaming. The CPU phase heatsink is too high. Some users mention that the Nexus will fit. If this is true, the HSLP-48 will also fit. I will not make a heatsink that only fits in the A4-SFX. I think a heatsink will have a high MOQ so I need to sell more heatsink as we have A4-SFX currently on the market.



    FAQ:

    How much space is between FAN and bottom plate?
    6,5mm

    How much space is under the fan?
    24mm

    Is it possible to unscrew the heatsink without removing the motherboard?
    Yes, because the heatsink is secured with two screws on a retention kit

    Why there is a small cut on each side of the fin surface?
    You will need that gap for your screw driver to mount the heatsink.

    Is a full copper version an option?
    Yes if it will be inside my price range!

    When will this heatsink reach the market?
    Currently I don't have a manufacturer and a prototype. So the release can be in the next 6 month or never if the results of the prototype are bad.


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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  2. mcheddadi

    mcheddadi Limp Gawd

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    Down for one. But I can't stress enough about having copper no Mather the premium and strix z270i compatibility
     
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  3. FISCHER

    FISCHER n00bie

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    Yea make it out of all copper, the LP53 shows you why
     
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  4. illram

    illram [H]ard|Gawd

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    Great idea, as always. Agree that compatibility "out of the box" with all motherboards, including the Strix, should be a priority if at all possible. I think the Strix is a fairly popular board this cycle.

    Also, I'm a big fan of not having to fiddle around with the fastening mechanism from the top down of the heatsink. As some have remarked that can be a pain in the ass with this particular design. A system where you have to flip the motherboard over is a lot quicker, even if it does require removing the motherboard, and you do not lose any fins. However I understand if that is the current design that you would utilize for the purposes of reducing tooling costs with the manufacturer.
     
  5. Rorschach

    Rorschach Limp Gawd

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    Godspeed with the project. It must succeed.
     
  6. Gurok

    Gurok n00bie

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    Wow, fantastic use of space, and ingenious in the way a heatsink occupies the space left between the fan and the case edge.

    By the way, powerful only has a single L in it. You might want to fix the thread title.
     
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  7. David A4

    David A4 Limp Gawd

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    INB4 everyone complains its not asus strix z270i compatible.
     
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  8. mcheddadi

    mcheddadi Limp Gawd

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    Too late?
     
  9. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why should I reduce cooling performance to support one motherboard?

    In the next year with the Z370 Asus will have a new idea how make their high end board incompatible.
    Why not buying a board like the ASRock Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming-ITX/ac, Gigabyte GA-Z270N-WIFI or MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC if you need a board that is only expansive and will give you not a single MHZ more in OC. :p
    If you select the Strix because of the second M.2 slot, in the future there will be more boards with that feature.

    The last option is removing the heatsink of the Strix and using something like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51j-iKDqj9L.jpg
     
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  10. okwchin

    okwchin Limp Gawd

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    Promising! and totally something I am very interested in :) Hope the numbers stack up and it happens. Alum fins for me are fine, if it is the difference between this happening and not happening.

    And regarding Strix Z270i, is it not compatible because the fan hits the heatsink (cant fit between ram and heatsinks), or because of the 17mm thick fins are hitting the tall heatsinks. Would reducing thickness a couple mm help with that clearance? or is it just a case of needing a smaller fan.

    Also, I am personally happy to see fewer heatpipes in direct contact to help with reducing airflow resistance, but continuing with what thermalright is already doing is sensible.
     
  11. MrLahn

    MrLahn n00bie

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    Asus Strix Z270i heatsink is ridiculous and serves no purpose. Don't compromise on a CPU cooler design because of that, if people wants the best cooler there is, they can bloody well just replace their motherboard heatsink :p
     
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  12. mcheddadi

    mcheddadi Limp Gawd

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    Or they can just not back this up
     
  13. mcheddadi

    mcheddadi Limp Gawd

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    Or why not just cut a hole for the fan for free because someone didn't have the foresight to add 1cm more width to his case . Seriously. All these things to buy and mod for a freaking 10mm . The numbers of coolers bettween 60mm and 50mm... This is retarded. *End of rant*
     
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  14. Veritas187

    Veritas187 n00bie

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    This seems like a good project to get started, I hope we get more input from others to make this a success. May I suggest links to this forum from sff,Linus tech tips, Reddit? The more the more the better I'm sure if a manufacture sees thousands of potential buyers we will get more traction to get this thing to market asap.
     
  15. illram

    illram [H]ard|Gawd

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    Re: the Asus, I'm not an engineer, so I'm more just kind of lazily wondering out loud if the assumption is true that factoring in that mobo's peculiarity means performance will automatically be compromised.
     
  16. dominathan

    dominathan [H]Lite

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    I really don't see how this heatsink will be worth it over the competition. It's very similar to the Phanteks PH-TC12LS and Thermalrights AXP100, so I don't see how it's going to improve cooling to the point that it was worth it. Unless it's full copper, it definitely won't be that much better. As it is now, I can't see why I'd get this after already spending a year with a cooler in my A4, especially if it only gets 1-2° C. And I think this is the crux of my issue with the current design... It's too similar to what already exists. It doesn't takes risks....

    I personally don't think (current) compatibility should be the primary focus if you want to make a successful first go in this market. You're already making a niche cooler (low profile), why not fully commit and base it around no GPU? No one makes a cooler that does.

    You could be THE BEST cooler for pci-extended AND GPU-less systems (pretty decent market)
    Or you could be a decent cooler for some people.
     
  17. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    Exactly (y)
     
  18. Rysen

    Rysen Limp Gawd

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    Full copper, look at how many people are dropping 60+ on the LP53. Make it full copper for the best possible cooling up to 80-130$ or more.
    We can even have a vote on it:

    http://www.strawpoll.me/12394275
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
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  19. lukedriftwood

    lukedriftwood n00bie

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    Would it be even better than full copper Dynatron T318 with vapour chamber?
     
  20. mcheddadi

    mcheddadi Limp Gawd

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    true dat
     
  21. Yoshikan

    Yoshikan n00bie

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    For me, you can't say that you need "more compatibility than for the A4 case", and don't make it compatible with the Asus Z270I on the other side.
     
  22. absolut_zero

    absolut_zero [H]Lite

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    Thermalright did produced limited number of AXP-100 in copper version.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a review from a Hardwareluxx.de froum member, https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f136/thermalright-axp-100-copper-kleines-review-977779.html

    Here is a youtuber unboxing the cooler,
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  23. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    Great ! It weighs 640g !! almost twice the normal version, which is only 320g.
    dondan cooler is bigger, so it will be more than 640g if it was in fully copper
     
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  24. epitaphic

    epitaphic n00bie

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    In the thread, thermalright rep mentions tootling needed for full copper (and freight) makes the price basically double. Material cost by itself is a very small part. So think about it, is there a market for this cooler where it costs twice Dan's estimate?

    I think we're crossing over too far into diminishing returns. A lot of people are thinking purely as an enthusiast, but Dan's gotta think like a business person. The product will be somewhere in the middle for sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  25. Wazzuppi

    Wazzuppi n00bie

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    Just wondering does the Hslp 48 utilise every possible space? It looks a bit small TBH
     
  26. dPunish3r

    dPunish3r n00bie

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    I've been thinking the same thing for a while. The A4 should be 1 cm wider to avoid issues with the heatsink (more choices, no modding, no turbulence...), and then this thread would not exist.

    On the other hand, Dan made a mistake and he didn't notice the noise issue because of the turbulence, and we all bought a C7 for his recommendation, thinking that we already had the heatsink matter resolved. This is a fact.
     
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  27. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think 90% of the customers bought the A4 because of it small size if I add mm here and there this case wouldn't be a success like it is. So let us concentrate on what we have and what is possible.

    I am thinking of adding 9-15mm to the width of the heatsink so it will complete over the RAM and more over the I/O area.
     
  28. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes we should be thinking realistic and develop together a heatsink that will be intersting for a huge amount of people. A full copper heatsink that will costs $100 and more for lowering the temps of some degrees will be interesting for maybe 2% of the potential buyers. A heatsing that will hide the PCIe port will be only interesting for A4-SFX owners. Let us say 30% of all A4-SFX ownerd will buy this co

    oler than we have a count of 530. This will be a guaranteed fail for that project on Kickstarter.
     
  29. iippo

    iippo n00bie

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    full copper. people who buy cases like yours and wanna stick hot oc'd CPU inside wont care about the price. seriously, just forget about the price range. its just silly to aim for something like mainstream pricing range, when the customer base is anything but that...
     
  30. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    (y)
     
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  31. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    If I will get a full copper heatsink for $70 from them what do you think will be the price on Kickstarter?
     
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  32. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    people here are buying more than 3-4 coolers just for modding and testing, that is more than 200$, we want something unique and never done before like the A4-SFX , people are buying the A4-SFX on ebay for 390-450 Euros !
    one guy bought the nexus from Amazon.jp for 19500 yen = 172 $, once you mentioned it here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  33. Jann5s

    Jann5s [H]Lite

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    Sweet, nice to see that you are already in communications with them. Did you also discuss an aluminum version? Personally, I don't think there is much difference between the two materials in terms of cooling performance, with Al having the advantage of being lighter and thus easier to mount and ship. However, maybe Cu is better from a marketing perspective, especially after seeing so many Cu advocates on the forums.

    Starting at $70 for just the heatsink it will need fan, packaging, shipping and some markup for your efforts. I'm guessing it will be in the $100-$140 range? to me that would be something I would buy, although it will be the most expensive cooler I've ever bought (but the A4-SFX deserves it).
     
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  34. fminus

    fminus n00bie

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    So something similar to this, but with lower height?
     
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  35. Petroj

    Petroj n00bie

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    I guess I'm in the minority. I just want a heatsink that allows for a rather cool and quiet operation. Being able to OC is just a bonus, but not a must for me. If OC'ing was a must, I'd stick with my ATX build. I'm really interested in what you will come up with, and I might be interested depending on MB (and socket) compability and if the price is at a maximum $100
     
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  36. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    The price was only a fiktive idea. So currently I am not in contact with them ;) You are right with your pricerange it would be 120€ on Kickstarter.
     
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  37. dominathan

    dominathan [H]Lite

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    There are more than A4 customers that don't use the PCI-E. Silverstone has been building cases for years that can't have a gpu in the slot. Apparently you could make it so Sentry owners can use it (if they don't use an SSD caddy?), so you have that group as well. Just look at the market, and look at the other SFF contenders. None of these other heatsink makers are down here "in the trenches". You could be the first to innovate in this space.

    If you go this route, you can get much better performance without needing to go full copper.

    Otherwise your cooler isn't worth it. It won't be better than anything we can get now
     
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  38. iippo

    iippo n00bie

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    i guess it would be too difficult to kickstart both alu and copper versions at once? personally id love to see the copper version first - that would then be the premium cooler in this size and simply "be as good as it is possible". the lite alu version could follow later if there is enough interest for the cheaper version.
     
  39. Sponge85

    Sponge85 n00bie

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    Nice design.
    But I have a Z270i strix and I will not replace it for new cooler. Mybe modding heatsink could be oki if the improvments is significant.
    For me 100$ would be fine that is what I spenat on c7 and NH-L9i.
     
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  40. StrawKite

    StrawKite Limp Gawd

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    We are never going to push the industry by being basic AF. Imagine if the copper heatsink is a huge success. That could push the industry forward, and make producing these units even cheaper in the future.
    I say fuck average, let's be more.
     
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