Current plasmas & Gaming

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rampantandroid

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I hunted on google and found ancient threads on this, nothing really recent; in short, I just bought a Panasonic 50" G25 Plasma (1080P, non-3D); Now - that's a greater resolution than my VX2025 is, and a mighty bit bigger. Would it be suitable for PC gaming though? The hype is plasmas can handle motion better and all, but how does that translate to PC gaming? I have no DVI input, but I can just use a DVI->HDMI converter.

Thanks so much!
 
Well one thing to consider is do you really want a monitor that big? There are slightly differing minimums and maximums depending on who you ask but if you look around you find sizing guides like this one. That would indicate that for a 50" monitor you would want to be no closer than 6.3 feet. So it may well be too large for you.

The other concern is image persistence. Plasmas are an emissive technology and thus susceptible to burn in. It is my understanding that they've worked on making it better, but it will always be an issue. So, the question is if they are good enough at resisting it to be used for the static images of a computer desktop. I suspect not, based on the fact that there are no Plasma computer monitors. I suspect that were you to use it, you'd burn in parts of your desktop on it.

I could be wrong, but you want to get a for sure answer on that before you spend the money and find out the hard way.
 
burn in is almost non existing. Especially on the Pannys. Be happy you got a great tv. Best thing to do is run some break-in slides for 150-300 hours before use. Than if you dont have calibration equipment (colormeter) than just take someone elses calibrated settings.

you may notice some IR, but that is normal.


check out g20/25
 
Plasma's are very burn in resistant these days but you'd want to configure a screensaver in windows just to be safe.

Ive been gaming on a 50" Kuro plasma for over 2 years and haven't had any issues (mainly PS3 / 360/ Wii and some PC, It's hooked up as a secondary monitor via DVI to HDMI cable).

I basically treat it the same way as my previous CRT HDTV and it's been great.
 
Adam.C said:
burn in is almost non existing.
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Non existent for video, or for computer images? Remember the two are very, very different. Computers have long term displays of large blocks of solid colour. Like right now on HardForum there is a large white block where the text input block is.

Many strategies that work well for video, like shifting around the image on the pixel/subpixel level do not for computer outputs. The areas are too large and are completely monochromatic, no variation at all between the adjacent pixels.

Now, I'm not saying that plasmas may not have a solution for that too but just saying "It's not a problem," is not sufficient. Provide proof, show a statement from the manufacturers or other experts that says "Yes, they are fine for use with computers, and here is why."

Computer use is tougher than most with regards to burn in, and thus something you have to be careful with. Now it would be a little easier if all that you do is video games, but until the OP says otherwise, I'm operating under the assumption he's using it as a monitor replacement which means it will do plenty of duty for web, e-mail and that kind of stuff.

Not saying it can't be done, just saying proper research needs to be done first and the use case needs to be considered.

For example when I wash TV shopping I called Crutchfield. I was pretty set on an LCD anyhow for various reasons, but they ran down the list of questions. When I mentioned the TV would be for computer use as well, they said "Ok, a Plasma is a bad idea then." Maybe they were being overly cautious, but then they are in the business of selling and replacing these things.

It is worth being careful, since the money you are talking is not trivial. Check first.
 
Plasmas are fine for video and gaming. I've been casually gaming on mine for 2 years, only really playing one game and there are no signs of burning in of HUD elements.

For PC use, I wouldn't use one and it's not just because of the burn in which while it may take a long time, will happen with static images imo.
 
I wouldn't use mine for desktop usage or work but for gaming they are fine. I have a 42" HItachi Ultravision purchased in April 2005. No burn in yet and it's our main TV.
 
Big screens are great for gaming, I don't like them so much for pc monitor use though.
 
Sycraft said:
Non existent for video, or for computer images? Remember the two are very, very different. Computers have long term displays of large blocks of solid colour. Like right now on HardForum there is a large white block where the text input block is.

Many strategies that work well for video, like shifting around the image on the pixel/subpixel level do not for computer outputs. The areas are too large and are completely monochromatic, no variation at all between the adjacent pixels.

Now, I'm not saying that plasmas may not have a solution for that too but just saying "It's not a problem," is not sufficient. Provide proof, show a statement from the manufacturers or other experts that says "Yes, they are fine for use with computers, and here is why."

Computer use is tougher than most with regards to burn in, and thus something you have to be careful with. Now it would be a little easier if all that you do is video games, but until the OP says otherwise, I'm operating under the assumption he's using it as a monitor replacement which means it will do plenty of duty for web, e-mail and that kind of stuff.

Not saying it can't be done, just saying proper research needs to be done first and the use case needs to be considered.

For example when I wash TV shopping I called Crutchfield. I was pretty set on an LCD anyhow for various reasons, but they ran down the list of questions. When I mentioned the TV would be for computer use as well, they said "Ok, a Plasma is a bad idea then." Maybe they were being overly cautious, but then they are in the business of selling and replacing these things.

It is worth being careful, since the money you are talking is not trivial. Check first.
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im a H-T NUT. I read over at AVS everyday and calibrate displays on the side. Its commonly known that burn-in is non existent on todays plasmas. of course if your an idiot and day 1 leave it on a static screen for a week...
 
I would still recommend against using a Plasma for a PC monitor display , far to easy to at some point get burn in. You may be just perfect with making sure static images aren't present but all it takes is one fuck up and your screwed.

And yes plasmas are light years ahead of where they use to be in terms of image retention/ burn in , you do have to be a fuck up to really burn an image in. I've had my Panasonic for years now and not a hint of burn in after many console gaming hours , so I recommend them for everything else but PC usage.
 
To get back on track note that the OP mentioned nothing about using his plasma as his main monitor.

But he did mention PC gaming, which the Panny G25 would probably excel at since it only has 1 to 2 frames of input lag (16-32ms). That's a really good score for a 2009-2010 HDTV.

OP once you get everything tweaked correctly, such as overscan and disabling video enhancements, you're going to have yourself a lot of fun gaming on that G25 :)

For more info you can plug your model # into the search bar in this plasma subforum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=167
 
I wouldn't run the burn in slides for more than 20-25hrs. The Panny will slowly raise the black levels (more slowly that the G10, but it still happens), and by about 3000 hours (exact hours not confirmed) it will have tripled the black levels, cutting contrast. Don't worry, it will still have very good black levels, better than any current computer monitor. But still, I wouldn't 'waste' 300 hours on burn in slides with a current Panny, it has plenty of native resistance to burn in, and the max benefit from the slides is the first few dozen hours. I wouldn't leave a static screen or logo on for 200 hours either, but I doubt you would ever do that.

Short answer to your question, it is very well suited to PC gaming, especially in gaming mode (reduces lag). Biggest issue in a living room is finding the appropriate mouse / kb setup - the display is great. Enjoy.
 
sethk said:
I wouldn't run the burn in slides for more than 20-25hrs. The Panny will slowly raise the black levels (more slowly that the G10, but it still happens), and by about 3000 hours (exact hours not confirmed) it will have tripled the black levels, cutting contrast. Don't worry, it will still have very good black levels, better than any current computer monitor. But still, I wouldn't 'waste' 300 hours on burn in slides with a current Panny, it has plenty of native resistance to burn in, and the max benefit from the slides is the first few dozen hours. I wouldn't leave a static screen or logo on for 200 hours either, but I doubt you would ever do that.

Short answer to your question, it is very well suited to PC gaming, especially in gaming mode (reduces lag). Biggest issue in a living room is finding the appropriate mouse / kb setup - the display is great. Enjoy.
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there are no "burn-in" slides, its to break it in to calibrate it faster. Also the new models went back to "floating blacks", which is why they take much longer for the black levels to "rise".

if you know someone that has a colorimeter you can use it to measure your blacks to see if you have a set that is good or bad with the rising blacks. Not everyone has the issue
 
So...to resurrect this...an oopsie was made...in that the TV was left on for roughly 8 hours displaying an xbox live menu screen....now, it's pretty much not visible anymore, given I had the contrast down to 40...but in a dark room I can still see a hint of it. Given the TV has <50 hours of use, is this just bad IR, or do I now know what burn in is first hand? The scrolling bars helped some, but the general outline of the menu is still slightly there. (and generally, when I watch something, I see very bad IR on dark screens; it goes away, but it is very noticeable, and very annoying.)

I'm running the break in disc, and actually turned the "no input for 3 hours auto-shut off" feature on....why the hell does panasonic disable all this stuff from the factory?
 
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rampantandroid said:
So...to resurrect this...an oopsie was made...in that the TV was left on for roughly 8 hours displaying an xbox live menu screen....now, it's pretty much not visible anymore, given I had the contrast down to 40...but in a dark room I can still see a hint of it. Given the TV has <50 hours of use, is this just bad IR, or do I now know what burn in is first hand? The scrolling bars helped some, but the general outline of the menu is still slightly there. (and generally, when I watch something, I see very bad IR on dark screens; it goes away, but it is very noticeable, and very annoying.)

I'm running the break in disc, and actually turned the "no input for 3 hours auto-shut off" feature on....why the hell does panasonic disable all this stuff from the factory?
Click to expand...
I know one thing, i wouldn't run that xbox live menu screen anytime in the near future, zip nada. The first 100 hours of a plasma are the most sensitive where extra care should be taken. You may have to run that break-in disc for longer than the usual 100 hours now (maybe?)

May want to try posting in the G20/G25 owners thread to see what advice they come up with: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1231956

As an alternate here's a burn-in/break-in thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949107

Good luck either way.
 
Adam.C said:
there are no "burn-in" slides, its to break it in to calibrate it faster. Also the new models went back to "floating blacks", which is why they take much longer for the black levels to "rise".

if you know someone that has a colorimeter you can use it to measure your blacks to see if you have a set that is good or bad with the rising blacks. Not everyone has the issue
Click to expand...

Burn in slides are images users download from AVSForum and run in a slide show mode on the display to supposedly help reduce IR in the long term. It's a preparatory "break-in" or "burn-in" procedure akin to that done on audio equipment like speakers, cables, etc. I make no claims about its effectiveness or lack thereof, just commenting on it based on earlier posts.
 
I've posted in other threads here about burn-in, and from my experience it hasn't been totally eliminated yet, and due to the inherent way plasmas work will probably always be something to at least think about when viewing static images for long periods of time

I have some minor burn-in from early this year that has yet to totallg disappear due to playing a game that had a constant white "0.0" in tbe upper right corner

My panel is a Samsung PN50-B650
 
Yeah, burn-in usually disappears pretty quickly. I guess it won't if you just have white over the area. I have a 50" Insignia with a Samsung panel. Gaming on it is pretty sweet. I'm sensitive to flicker and I can't drive the panel past 76Hz or so, except at some random resolution that goes up to 85Hz. The timings do NOT work like you remember from the CRT days.
 
Adam.C said:
im a H-T NUT. I read over at AVS everyday and calibrate displays on the side. Its commonly known that burn-in is non existent on todays plasmas. of course if your an idiot and day 1 leave it on a static screen for a week...
Click to expand...

Which is inaccurate , you can calibrate all the TVs you want it doesn't mean you're the end all be all of plasma technology info (of course thats not to imply that I am either).

My Panny 2008 has burn-in even after responsible usage on the bottom middle part of the screen. This was after the 200 hour "settling" period , perhaps 2010 models are even less prone but the majority of sets sold are still 2009 models to most people.

Burn-in is far reduced from its horrible early days but saying its non-existent is at the least inaccurate and at the most irresponsible mistruth.

Even if burn-in wasn't a factor for plasma's , the fact that text looks downright awful on a plasma since its design is different in the per pixel density sense which means everyday usage has more strain for the eyes regardless of overall display size (of course viewing distance is the biggest factor). And the fact the plasma's have a different way of refreshing the screen which can make it a bitch to setup for PC usage since resolution and refresh rate can diverge.

No matter how new the model (currently) and how responsible the user... static images are a everyday fact of PC usage in general , even lower overall brightness and being highly mindful of what you have up on the screen you are not safe from the possibility of burn-in.

To the OP : I recommend for just PC usage sticking with a large LCD TV if you must use a larger display , however do more research on your own and draw your own conclusions. There are a thousand opinions on this topic but listen to whatever makes the most sense to you.
 
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Even the lowest latency TVs have input lag. The best I've personally ever tested was a Panasonic Plasma @ 32ms. (2 frames assuming 60fps)
 
Godmachine said:
This. People should really research this stuff before posting.
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This is why I rarely post in this forum; you can't swing a dead cat without finding a jerk.

a> the comment is still entirely valid and SJetski provided very valuable information as a result. I think we can all agree that you can't go buy just any TV and expect the input lag to be great.
b> I generate this data; ex: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16288325&highlight=#post16288325 Notice that I said "the best I personally tested". I'm trying to raise awareness for the purpose of this thread not providing anything new since I'm not in the market.

I'll just add "Nice find Sjetski" for both you and I since that would have been an appropriate post in the first place.

Oh and to add a quick nugget of clarification to all the results listed on AVSForum; I don't know if those results take into account the input lag of the LCD laptop panels used for comparison, (don't have time to read, perhaps interested parties might) but in my tests I found that all laptop screens available to me had 1 frame of lag vs. a CRT. If that isn't taken into account then assume that 16ms of lag vs. laptop LCD = 32ms of lag vs. a CRT. (rule of thumb)

Have a good Thanksgiving guys!
 
Truckchase! said:
I'll just add "Nice find Sjetski" for both you and I since that would have been an appropriate post in the first place.

Oh and to add a quick nugget of clarification to all the results listed on AVSForum; I don't know if those results take into account the input lag of the LCD laptop panels used for comparison, (don't have time to read, perhaps interested parties might) but in my tests I found that all laptop screens available to me had 1 frame of lag vs. a CRT. If that isn't taken into account then assume that 16ms of lag vs. laptop LCD = 32ms of lag vs. a CRT. (rule of thumb)

Have a good Thanksgiving guys!
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Thank you,

The results at AVS "sorta" do take the 1-frame of lag on laptop LCD screens in that it's always implied in the results (they mention it over and over again) and many tested vs CRT monitors which make the results even more genuine imho. But otherwise, yes, a novice who briefly peruses those results may not interpret them correctly.
 
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