Crytek's lawsuit over Star Citizen using Cryengine continues heating up

erek

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You heavily invested in Star Citizen? Any returns yet on your investment?

"CIG said in May 2019, Crytek "sheepishly and belatedly" emailed Amazon to ask if it had truly granted CIG a licence covering prior versions of CryEngine as well as Lumberyard. According to CIG, in that email, "Crytek conceded that an affirmative answer would likely tank its Squadron 42 claim." Amazon confirmed it licensed Lumberyard to CIG in 2016 - and that it included CryEngine in that licence.

"CIG's separate licence with Amazon operates as a complete defense against Crytek's remaining claims so they too never should have been brought," CIG says.

"Instead of acting responsibly even at that late moment, Crytek persisted, fought the bond motion, and dithered another seven months before bringing this motion."
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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-01-18-star-citizen-dev-hits-back-against-crytek-as-war-of-words-continues

https://www.pcgamer.com/cryteks-lawsuit-over-star-citizen-using-cryengine-continues-heating-up/
 

viivo

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It's understandable that a small, underfunded studio like CIG would want Crytek to have to pay all their legal fees.
 

jiminator

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I don't really understand what the whole purpose of their lawsuit was. they said they were going to use cryengine and then didn't... so....?
 

Chimpee

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what does Amazon have to do with it (is it the same Amazon owned by Bezos?)
Amazon licensed CryEngine back in 2015 which they developed its own derivative engine called Lumberyard, afterward Amazon grant CIG the right to use Lumberyard which made CIG switch from CryEngine to Lumberyard.
 

Krazy925

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It’s 2020 and we still don’t have a game lol.

Where are all the faithful? Isn’t it time for Chris Roberts to raise Star Citizen from its tomb?
 

Smashing Young Man

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I'm reminded of an old MMORPG that was in development for years called "Atriarch". It took over a decade for it to just fade away (though the website still exists amazingly enough: https://www.atriarch.com/)

At least the developers of that failed project gave it a go on their own dime. Chris Roberts should be in jail, and his enablers in an insane asylum.
 

Grimlaking

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Yea I signed up for a few hundred dollars back in 2013... I'm a more wise man now than I was then and for that cost of a lesson learned I'll take it.
 

M76

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Crytek doesn't seem to have a case here, this looks more like a desperate attempt to get some funding for a failing company on the brink of bankruptcy.

It’s 2020 and we still don’t have a game lol.

Where are all the faithful? Isn’t it time for Chris Roberts to raise Star Citizen from its tomb?
You can find them in their natural habitat drooling at promo jpegs and announcements of yet more unneeded features while they pretend that the so called alpha is already the best game ever.
They rarely wander outside their cave nowadays, some say you can still hear their wailing at full moons.
 

EniGmA1987

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I don't really understand what the whole purpose of their lawsuit was. they said they were going to use cryengine and then didn't... so....?
The original purpose was That Star Citizen was going to use CryEngine and got a license, then they announced Squadron 42 and released it. However, CIG supposedly didnt get a new license for CryEngine for that. In CIG's mind, Squadron 42 was a separate part of the whole over-encompassing game. In Crytek's mind, Squadron 42 was a full and separate game on its own and was not included in the license they sold to CIG. The problem is, Amazon bought CryEngine, created Lumberyard, and CIG made a new deal with Amazon who was the new owner of the game engine they were using.
Crytek license terms are revenue sharing, so since CIG is no longer using the Crytek owned engine, Crytek can no longer look forward to profits from game sales. These game sales probably include the pre-orders of ships since they include the game upon release, which means Crytek was probably getting income all this time and rather large amounts of it judging by Star Citizen funding and Crytek's 5% cut. This understandably upsets Crytek because they stopped receiving money and have no more money to look forward to, and are obviously wanting to fight this change as a sort of retroactive agreement to continue to receive profit from sales since it was originally based on their work. Despite having most likely already received millions in profit, their engine no longer being used, and development of the new engine is funded by Amazon instead. Doesnt seem fair to me, but everyone will always try to get the most money possible and when your studio is bankrupt and millions are on the line, you can bet they are going to try and get those millions.
 
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vegeta535

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Crytek doesn't seem to have a case here, this looks more like a desperate attempt to get some funding for a failing company on the brink of bankruptcy.


You can find them in their natural habitat drooling at promo jpegs and announcements of yet more unneeded features while they pretend that the so called alpha is already the best game ever.
They rarely wander outside their cave nowadays, some say you can still hear their wailing at full moons.
One managed to wander into a good game's forum and has been nothing a nuisance.
 

defaultluser

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The original purpose was That Star Citizen was going to use CryEngine and got a license, then they announced Squadron 42 and released it. However, CIG supposedly didnt get a new license for CryEngine for that. In CIG's mind, Squadron 42 was a separate part of the whole over-encompassing game. In Crytek's mind, Squadron 42 was a full and separate game on its own and was not included in the license they sold to CIG. The problem is, Amazon bought CryEngine, created Lumberyard, and CIG made a new deal with Amazon who was the new owner of the game engine they were using.
Crytek license terms are revenue sharing, so since CIG is no longer using the Crytek owned engine, Crytek can no longer look forward to profits from game sales. These game sales probably include the pre-orders of ships since they include the game upon release, which means Crytek was probably getting income all this time and rather large amounts of it judging by Star Citizen funding and Crytek's 5% cut. This understandably upsets Crytek because they stopped receiving money and have no more money to look forward to, and are obviously wanting to fight this change as a sort of retroactive agreement to continue to receive profit from sales since it was originally based on their work. Despit having moist likely already received millions in profit, their engine no longer being used, and development funded by Amazon. Doesnt seem fair to me, but everyone will always try to get the most money possible and when your studio is bankrupt and millions are on the line, you can bet they are going to try and get those millions.
Right, Chris Roberts gets 100% of JPEG sales. They have to share the bounty when someone pre-orders the game. That is why they've transitioned from one to the other!
 

jiminator

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ah, ok, so they want a part of the 250 million SC pie + whatever they scan get for S42
 

defaultluser

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I was wondering that myself.

I thought they tabled that part of the lawsuit until it' been released, and just went on to finish the Amazon license change-up validation.

They just want to get paid, and that all depends on whether Chris Roberts signed an exclusive agreement with Crytek form their Cryengine license.
 

Krazy925

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I thought they tabled that part of the lawsuit until it' been released, and just went on to finish the Amazon license change-up validation.

They just want to get paid, and that all depends on whether Chris Roberts signed an exclusive agreement with Crytek form their Cryengine license.
I wouldn't be willing to table anything until SC is released because lord knows I'll be dead by then.
 

Grimlaking

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If Crytec bulls a rabbit out of it's hat and wins, that means CIG is going to have to expose it's financials for the collections phase (after rounds of appeals of course.) . At that point it will be shown that after legal fees CIG has no money left and is bankrupt and nobody gets anything. Backers get no game. Crytek gets no money, and Chris Roberts gets no positive feedback (other than from backers suffering from cranial rectal insertion syndrome saying this is all Crytek's fault if it wasn't for them we would have a game.)
 

lironmiron

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According to the official roadmap, S42 is scheduled to go into beta, with all chapters complete, in Q3 of this year.

Yes, it will probably get delayed, but $25 is a good price to pay for a beautiful dream.
 
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Derangel

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It's understandable that a small, underfunded studio like CIG would want Crytek to have to pay all their legal fees.
While it’s fun to poke at SC I don’t really think the snark is valid here. Making the opposing party pay legal fees is standard practice in lawsuits like this, especially when it’s a frivolous lawsuit.
 

Azrak

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If you are going to post a summary of what is going on, please get your facts correct.

then they announced Squadron 42 and released it.
No. SQ42 has not been released.

However, CIG supposedly didnt get a new license for CryEngine for that.
No. CIG asked for, and paid Crytek for, a license for both Star Citizen (which the GLA incorrectly calls "Space Citizen") and Squadron 42. It's in the GLA (Game License Agreement): (scroll down to Exhibit A).

These game sales probably include the pre-orders of ships since they include the game upon release, which means Crytek was probably getting income all this time and rather large amounts of it judging by Star Citizen funding and Crytek's 5% cut.
No. CIG paid ~$2.6M (1.85M British Pounds) for a full CryEngine license for both games (see section 5 of GLA). No additional royalties are paid to Crytek (see section 5.4 of GLA).

Doesnt seem fair to me
This isn't on CIG, but Crytek. Crytek made the decision to sell CryEngine to Amazon and allow Amazon to sub-license the engine to other game companies. CIG simply switched engines, which really meant switching code bases to Lumberyard since the basic engine is the same for both. Nothing in the GLA prevents CIG from switching game engines. Amazon gave CIG a full license for Lumberyard/CryEngine as part of the switch and that's when CIG's game launcher changed to show the "Developed with Lumberyard" attribution text, instead of "Developed with CryEngine" which was required by the Crytek GLA.

Crytek originally sued because they somehow thought the word "exclusively" meant that CIG absolutely had to use Crytek's licensed CryEngine for the Games being developed and CIG was not allowed to switch to another engine without violating the GLA. But that isn't what the word "exclusively" means in this context. Instead, it means CIG has an exclusive license to develop the Games on CryEngine (but no other games can be developed on CryEngine without a new license agreement).
After that claim and others were thrown out of court, it left little for Crytek to hold on to. So now Crytek wants to terminate the lawsuit without prejudice (meaning Crytek can sue again later once SQ42 is released) because the circumstances are not "ripe" to continue with the lawsuit. CIG wants the lawsuit terminated WITH prejudice (which means the lawsuit is done forever and cannot be started again) and wants the $500K bond from Crytek to be awarded to CIG for legal expenses incurred.

Edit: Error: fixed WITHOUT to WITH in last sentence.
 
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tangoseal

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They should just start selling pics of ships...o wait
Have you actually played the game yet? I have been playing for 5 hours at least tonight. Smuggling, exploring, delivering, and riding trains on planet sized cities.
 
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termite

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Have you actually played the game yet? I have been playing for 5 hours at least tonight. Smuggling, exploring, delivering, and riding trains on planet sized cities.

I love how people talk shit about something they nothing of.
He's not wrong though. Only a fraction of the purchasable ships are in game, many are still "in production" and are in fact just jpeg images on the website, with people glady buying at $100(s) a pop.

And yes, you can log in and do some missions and exploration. In a single system, on servers that can barely support 50 players at a time (technically 60). 50 players per server, with some ships, in game right now, that can crew 9—10 people.

Don't forget to discuss the constant crashes and random errors, like getting out of your seat and falling through your ship into space, or getting stuck in quantum travel with a full load of goods and loosing them all because the server isn't fully persistent.

Don't get me wrong, getting in game really gives a decent idea of how good it could be if there was a shred of oversight. It looks amazing, and absolutely makes you want more. However, it is nowhere close to being finished and will not be for years, given its current state I would be surprised if it gets to Beta before 2023.

SQ42, which is the reason I backed it, will not be released this year, even in Beta state. Anyone who thinks it will be is fooling themselves.

Also Crytek really doesn't have a chance with with winning a case based on what publicly available evidence there is.
 

Krazy925

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He's not wrong though. Only a fraction of the purchasable ships are in game, many are still "in production" and are in fact just jpeg images on the website, with people glady buying at $100(s) a pop.

And yes, you can log in and do some missions and exploration. In a single system, on servers that can barely support 50 players at a time (technically 60). 50 players per server, with some ships, in game right now, that can crew 9—10 people.

Don't forget to discuss the constant crashes and random errors, like getting out of your seat and falling through your ship into space, or getting stuck in quantum travel with a full load of goods and loosing them all because the server isn't fully persistent.

Don't get me wrong, getting in game really gives a decent idea of how good it could be if there was a shred of oversight. It looks amazing, and absolutely makes you want more. However, it is nowhere close to being finished and will not be for years, given its current state I would be surprised if it gets to Beta before 2023.

SQ42, which is the reason I backed it, will not be released this year, even in Beta state. Anyone who thinks it will be is fooling themselves.

Also Crytek really doesn't have a chance with with winning a case based on what publicly available evidence there is.
My hope is when funds get light for star citizen that we’ll get SQ42 to drum up funds to finish it. I think that’s the most logical way for us to get SQ42
 

smarenwolf

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You heavily invested in Star Citizen? Any returns yet on your investment?
Yes, quite a bit of fun. Not the best $/hours of fun I've ever had (that'd be Space Engineers and KSP), but better than every movie I've ever paid for and quite a few games as well.

It’s 2020 and we still don’t have a game lol.

Where are all the faithful?
We're still around ;)
 

Grimlaking

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Yes, quite a bit of fun. Not the best $/hours of fun I've ever had (that'd be Space Engineers and KSP), but better than every movie I've ever paid for and quite a few games as well.


We're still around ;)
Out of curiosity when did you back? Because I see you've only been a member here since may of 2018. By then I'd already backed for FIVE FREAKING YEARS. And the game was already 3 YEARS DELAYED. So you can imagine my confusion, unless you're a more recent backer. Then I get it you are still in the honeymoon phase. Just wait until that changes and you ask for a refund and are denied.
 

TurboGLH

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Out of curiosity when did you back? Because I see you've only been a member here since may of 2018. By then I'd already backed for FIVE FREAKING YEARS. And the game was already 3 YEARS DELAYED. So you can imagine my confusion, unless you're a more recent backer. Then I get it you are still in the honeymoon phase. Just wait until that changes and you ask for a refund and are denied.
Backed in 2012, backer eighteen thousand something.

I bought one ship, and than an upgrade a year or so later. I'm into it for the cost of a normal game. I figure I've bought plenty of games in the last 30 years that didn't pan out, so if it never comes out, nothing major lost, but I really loved wing commander and free/star lancer so it's worth the risk.

I'll say I don't understand people spending big $$ though.
 

GreenOrbs

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While I'm not a fan of the way CIG has handled the development of the games, Crytek should never have brought the lawsuit. There were a bunch of dubious claims about what an exclusive license is... Cryteks lawyers were incompetent to think that it locks CIG into using their engine. Its a standard contract term meaning that CIG was only allowed to use CryEngine on SC and SQ43 and not on any other game. When a bunch of their claims were thrown out, they were left with the following:

1. SQ42 is required to use the same launcher as SC.
2. A Crytek logo needs to be displayed.

Their new argument that the lawsuit isnt ripe basically states that no violation can occur until the game is formally launched... which is what CIG has been arguing for years now in a lawsuit that has cost them about $1m. If the game releases and the launcher is the same as SC no violation has occurred...

It is standard practice for lawyers fees to be paid by the losing side. Crytek is about to lose so now they want to get out of paying by cancelling the 3 year old lawsuit by claiming the issue isn't ready for a lawsuit yet. You don't get to back out of losing a lawsuit by claiming it shouldn't have yet been brought. Typically ripeness claims are brought by a defendant trying to get a case dismissed. The lawyers for the party suing (crytek) are supposed to do due dilligence to determine if the claims a ripe (ready for a lawsuit) BEFORE suing and making the opposing party spend nearly a million.

In short, this isn't CIG abusing Crtyek but rather a really incompetent job by Crytek's lawyers. CIG is only asking to get the case dismissed with prejudice and to be granted the $500k bond (money held in escrow by the court in case Crytek loses) which will only partially cover their lawyers fees of nearly a million.
 

smarenwolf

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Out of curiosity when did you back? Because I see you've only been a member here since may of 2018. By then I'd already backed for FIVE FREAKING YEARS. And the game was already 3 YEARS DELAYED. So you can imagine my confusion, unless you're a more recent backer. Then I get it you are still in the honeymoon phase. Just wait until that changes and you ask for a refund and are denied.
Not entirely sure, I think 2016. I think I was roughly "a year in" when the Super Hornet got sold in the "Weekend Warrior" Package (which I got to my existing Aurora). So yes, I'd say roughly 2016-ish.
I'm in no way a recent backer, and also not in my honeymoon phase.

I'm out of my "hype"-phase where I keep up with all the news and gobble up every detail that comes out of CIG. Or talk a lot to other people about cool stuff that's happening.
I'm basically in "Let's wait and see what happens"-mode.

No urge to get a refund, though.
I've backed with an Aurora, Super-Hornet, M50, Freelancer and maybe additional 20€ of small stuff like the Greycat golf cart.
 
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