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Crystallizer: The Verdict?

Zarathustra[H]

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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I've never used one of Creative's sound cards that have the 24Bit Crystallizer option. How do you like it?

As I understand it, it uses a series of complex algorithms to attempt to revert the sound to a pre-CD mastered state. To me it sounds like black magic. Sort of like in the movies when they zoom in on a video and then "enhance" but I'm not going to write it off completely, at least not without testing it first.

How I have understood things:
The crystallizer mitigates compression. Not file compression (like compressing a wav file to mp3) but dynamic range compression.

As I understand what happens is that big recording studios figured out that they get more radio airplay out of music that is loud, but in the 16bit space of the CD, there is only a limited number of different "volume levels". So what do they do? Once they are done mixing the track, they lower the volume of all the peaks to about the average volume, and then raise the average volume to 96% of the output, creating music that is evenly loud throughout the track.

Why this is good:
The song is now louder. Louder music gets more attention on the radio and sells more albums.

Why this is bad:
With the volume peaks less distinctive than they were before cymbals and bass drums sound less punchy, energetic and clear. Background sounds that sound quiet during loud parts of the track, suddenly get louder during quiet parts of the track.

The crystallizer apparently tries to revert the output sound to something more similar to what it sounded like prior to the compression into the 16bit space of the CD, and then plays it over the 24bit outputs of the sound card.

My question is - thus - does it work? I would find it difficult to believe it can work well, but if it does I am interested in checking it out...
 
I'd like to spend more time fiddling with it to post my final thoughts, but I do have it on for most of my music. I set it to ~35%, depending on what type of music it is. It does indeed work like you said for CD audio. I definitely like having the option, but I'm not sure I have the settings exactly how I want them yet.

I am wanting to do some testing vs. studio FLAC. I have yet to find many songs that are recorded this way, without paying subs or demo fees.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I'd like to spend more time fiddling with it to post my final thoughts, but I do have it on for most of my music. I set it to ~35%, depending on what type of music it is. It does indeed work like you said for CD audio. I definitely like having the option, but I'm not sure I have the settings exactly how I want them yet.

I am wanting to do some testing vs. studio FLAC. I have yet to find many songs that are recorded this way, without paying subs or demo fees.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

What headphones/speakers are you using?
 
ProMedia 2.1, no headphones, TitaniumHD. Also a mixed set of Polk Monitor40/CS1 s2 center/PSW10/Yamaha (forgot model, ~3 years old) reciever. Mostly, I use the ProMedia set for music and games.

The real test is setting EQ flat or EQ Classical "flat" and running up the slider on the crystallizer.
 
My personal experience has been that the crystalizer shines where the audio equipment falls flat.

I used to have promedia 2.1's and zalman surround headphones that i used with a variety of crystalizer enhanced soundcards (x-fi usb, and the onboard sound on my Rampage 2 Gene, as well as the sound card bundled with my Big Bang X-power). I usually ran the crystalizer around 60-70% and found that universally I liked the way it sounded. Primarily I listen to metal/industrial/alternative, and play games. Found that it added punch to the bass drums and sharpened out high hats and cymbal crashes.

My current equipment is in my sig, and I also have a pair of Audio Technica ATH-A700's. I've found that I now prefer not using it at all, in that it makes the before mentioned qualities seem unrealistic.

I know this is not at all scientific, and I am no way an audio engineer/expert. But that's been my experience, and I do consider myself an expert in knowing what I like ;)
 
Personally I have found the crystallizer feature pretty useful for music at least (I am using an x-fi Xmod and an X-fi Pro Go!) I am not a discerning audiophile by any stretch of means, but I do feel that it has added a great deal of fun for my music through my Shure SRH840s. The highs and lows in particular seem much more detailed and I have tried switching between the regular 3.5 mm jack, and the Xmod and Pro Go! with and without the crystallizer feature on (in this case the Xmod does it internally, while the Pro Go! requires a software install).

In consideration of all cases, I do feel it adds a nice kick that I can't seem to get on an equalizer. This is also true when I play it on my logitech z-5300, z-3 and x-540s (all which are not great by any means, but the crystallizer feature is a noticeable difference on all of them).

I have found this whether I am running high bit rate MP3s (320 kps), lossless files or straight from the CDs themselves. In some cases, I ran the 320 kps files with the crystallizer on/off and compared it to the CD version and found that there were details for sure that were not there when the crystallizer was off. They were very minute and hardly discernible details like a cymbal ringing, but the crystallizer certainly brought it out.

I have also tried running a line out directly through CD to the Xmod and found that it kicked up the fun, but I wasn't absolutely blown away compared to when I was streaming the MP3s.

I realize that the Xmod crystallizer might be different than the X-Fi Go Pro!'s software and I am not sure if this is relevant this is compared to non-usb soundcards. Just wanted to put in my two cents.
 
Anything that alters the sound from it's original source to me is a bad thing so I vote to not use it.

At least for headphones.

For a home theater then EQ is necessary for room correction.
 
It's decent for adding some excitement to the sound if you don't have a good amplifier with good speakers in your setup. Alternatively play around with an equalizer instead (there's one in foobar) to learn which frequencies does what to your sound.
 
I just recently switched from my ASUS Xonar DG to using the onboard X-Fi that's built in to my Rampage III Formula mobo. It comes with the same software you'd use with an add-on X-Fi card. The EQ is unmatched by the Xonar's, so adding a bit of the crytalizer helps the X-Fi to reach the highs that the EQ can't. The sound is decent, but you still can't apply the EQ and crystalizer to the line-in, which sucks. The Xonar does this, allowing the audio from my consoles to benefit from my sound settings, but the codec the Xbox 360 uses causes some popping noises. PS3 sounds clear though. The onboard X-Fi as well as the X-Fi sound cards simply allow for audio pass-through with line-in audio. Anyway, that's getting off the subject. : )
 
The crystalizer is nothing but a fancy software version of the old graphical equalizer. All it does is molest the musical signal and creates the "illusion" of better sound. At the expense of the truth of the original music. In short another marketing gimmick.

cityjim
 
It definitely is a marketing gimmick, but if the end user is happy with the sound, is it a problem? I guess the idea is yes, it doesn't sound like the original source, but if the end user enjoys a more colored sound I don't see it as a problem.

I guess an analogy would be taking a RAW format photograph and manipulating it with post-processing to make an image that has the kind of highlights/exposure/sharpness...etc that you like.
 
not a fan of Crystalizer, i disabled it and haven't looked back.
 
SirMaster said:
Anything that alters the sound from it's original source to me is a bad thing so I vote to not use it.

At least for headphones.

For a home theater then EQ is necessary for room correction.
Click to expand...

This.

Now I can see if you have "bad" equipment...this may be a nice little spruce up to the music. But I really don't like the crystalizer at all.
 
I just wish we could buy music in a higher bitrate digital form where it has not been compressed/normalized down to 16 bit and 96% volume...

The Chrystalizer is obviously no substitute for this, but I was hoping that it at least helped a little bit, independent of speaker/headphone quality.


cityjim said:
The crystalizer is nothing but a fancy software version of the old graphical equalizer. All it does is molest the musical signal and creates the "illusion" of better sound. At the expense of the truth of the original music. In short another marketing gimmick.
Click to expand...

It may be a gimmick, but it as nothing to do with an equalizer. If you have to compare it to something else, it is more like an "expander" but apparently it works less well than an dedicated expander does, and dedicated expanders don't work very well in the first place...
 
I like the crystalizer on, but with its slider turned down to its lowest setting.

I typically use some Klipsch PC speakers for my PC sound, so yeah, its helping to add excitement to not very good speakers. It adds a lot more preceived detail in just the right spots to make percussion more percussive, it tightens up bass, and makes bass guitars a bit more perceivable. Particularly parts played with fingerstyle.

but, I'd also say that it isn't just making up for bad speakers, its also making up for bad production on an album. Even with a better set of speakers (Audio Engine A5) the crystalizer is still useful, I find.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037064180 said:
I just wish we could buy music in a higher bitrate digital form where it has not been compressed/normalized down to 16 bit and 96% volume...

The Chrystalizer is obviously no substitute for this, but I was hoping that it at least helped a little bit, independent of speaker/headphone quality.




It may be a gimmick, but it as nothing to do with an equalizer. If you have to compare it to something else, it is more like an "expander" but apparently it works less well than an dedicated expander does, and dedicated expanders don't work very well in the first place...
Click to expand...

Never meant to express it was exactly an equalizer. Just used that for reference. Obviously it's a software item that fudges the sound. I must of cunfused you??

Also if you are a gamer that wants max FPS then this should be turned off. Clearly this would use more CPU time to create that "magical" sound. Turn it up to 100% and hear Alvin and the Chipmunks, LOL.

cityjim
 
My Denon amp has somehting that claims to do like the Crystalizer, never liked it on my X-Fi and don't like it on my Denon amp either. Colorizes the sound IMO.
 
cityjim said:
Never meant to express it was exactly an equalizer. Just used that for reference. Obviously it's a software item that fudges the sound. I must of cunfused you??

Also if you are a gamer that wants max FPS then this should be turned off. Clearly this would use more CPU time to create that "magical" sound. Turn it up to 100% and hear Alvin and the Chipmunks, LOL.

cityjim
Click to expand...

What's the 2nd paragraph about? I feel like your just being kind of an asshole there :confused:

Back on topic: I liked it when I had a XtremeMusic way back when and I had some shitty $100 Logitech 5.1 system, once I had some more money I bought some nicer speakers and started only getting high bitrate music but I do still enjoy the more "colored" sound it gives sometimes.
 
SirMaster said:
Anything that alters the sound from it's original source to me is a bad thing so I vote to not use it.
Click to expand...

the Titanium HD I received a week ago is my first high-end sound card so I spent a lot of time playing with the options and trying lots of media players and audio enhancer software, this was my final conclusion.
 
My advice? Try it. It can enhance the gaming experience a bit if you're running older games, or games that are using heavily compressed sound effects. I occasionally use it at the "5%" setting on my XtremeMusic card for some games, but I thought the default 20% was overkill. Never used it much for music, though.
 
I've read a very detailed article about this awhile back, which helped in making the decision on whether to use it or not.

Their analysis was that it definitely reduced dynamic range, as well as provided a 1-2dB boost across the range. This gave the impression of a more detailed and lively sound.

Since switching to a Dayton bookshelf setup, I've found that Crystalizer made the highs way too shrill.

My Gaming Mode simply has the 60hz-and-below region boosted, which does the job.
 
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