Can someone please explain to me why people get so hung up on sound cards? I fail to see the point in them. I have optical and coaxial S/PDIF output directly from my motherboard, and run an optical cable to a relatively cheap Pioneer receiver. That in turn is connected to *real* speakers and a subwoofer (not some crap designed for PC's) . I get crystal clear audio via a digital connection, don't have to worry about crappy analog 1/8" jacks. I can also pass Dolby Digital and DTS out to be decoded by the receiver. So yea, whats the point of these sound cards???
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Creative Unveiled X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Series
- Thread starter R3MF
- Start date
WAY better 3D positioning in games.
BETTER prefomance.
MORE accelerated sounds
All in all giving a better sound picture, where you actually can hear if the enemy is over you and to right..og below you and to the left...
To use an analog...onboard sound = onboard graphics...dedicated soundcard = 3D graphicscard.
If I game on onboard sound it is for me like gaming with no AA/AF...just plain ugly.
Alright, since I'm feeling nice, here's a link using the rightmark audio analyzer. As you can see, the auzentech bends the creative card over.
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=456&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=3
It's performance has only improved since those tests with the newer drivers, since these were done with the originally shipping creative drivers.
That's not an EMI shield. That's an EMI absorber.
The way they focused on looks over function results in reflection. (The holes let it in, then bounce it around between layers.)
Typical Creative trash. Minor revision to an existing product, remove a bunch of features, then charge a ton more cash for it.
The way they focused on looks over function results in reflection. (The holes let it in, then bounce it around between layers.)
Typical Creative trash. Minor revision to an existing product, remove a bunch of features, then charge a ton more cash for it.
You dont have to explain about surround sound, im coming from the high end home theater scene, i know all about it. PC games need to start coming with Dolby Digital support that can be decoded via standard DD decoders in all HT receivers. Console games have this, why cant we? THEN these "sound cards" people like so much will be totally irrelevant.
Im not using onboard sound. Im offloading it to the processor in my receiver via S/PDIF which is giving me higher quality audio then anything Creative or Auzentech can even dream of.
Or you can use the auzentech card to do the realtime encoding into dolby digital and have your receiver decode it.
Bottom line is, unless you go analog, you're not going to get uncompressed pcm, dolby truehd or dts-hd master audio from your pc using a digital connection. That is, until auzentech releases the HDMI x-tension.
ourfpshero
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offloading to a seperate receiver is not always a viable solution. almost everyone i know does not have their home theater at their pc desk! (ok so i know absolutely nobody like that)
consoles are usually in the same place as the home theaters tho. a pc needs its own solution.
and the 3d effects possible from games are FAR superior to what u get from movies. pc games tried DD long ago and it didnt take off.
for anybody to compete with creative labs they need a NEW solution to 3d audio. DDL justs outputs a decodable stream of the same old directsound3d that we get from analogue connections on any old sound card
i have hooked my pc up to my home theater for giggles but it wasnt very usable there! (just nice and loud lol)
consoles are usually in the same place as the home theaters tho. a pc needs its own solution.
and the 3d effects possible from games are FAR superior to what u get from movies. pc games tried DD long ago and it didnt take off.
for anybody to compete with creative labs they need a NEW solution to 3d audio. DDL justs outputs a decodable stream of the same old directsound3d that we get from analogue connections on any old sound card
i have hooked my pc up to my home theater for giggles but it wasnt very usable there! (just nice and loud lol)
Games don't use DD, never did. DD, better known as AC3, is an audio compression format. There ARE games that use TRUE surround sound, such as Crysis. Dolby Digital Live (DDL), and DTS Connect / DTS Interactive (I prefer the DTS version, it's immensely better), is simply a system that takes any audio and encodes it to DTS in real-time. The only reason to do this is if you have an external surround receiver / decoder, since only 2 uncompressed channels can fit on S/PDIF. Encoded, you can pass up to 5.1 channels over S/PDIF.
I got a card with DTS Connect because I have an external headphone receiver that handles the decoding. Very useful for gaming.
ourfpshero
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Dobly would be a DOWNGRADE in games comapred to EAX, why won't you understand this?
And this is tested in a double blind study right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ear
Those games merely have a software Dolby encoder, akin to Dolby Digital Live. It alone does nothing for surround sound, it merely encodes it so you can pass it on to a decoder.
For the last time, there is no such thing as a game that "creates" surround using DD. It is a COMPRESSION FORMAT.
ourfpshero
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ok so maybe i dont know what every acronym stands for. but isnt what the unreal engine games did pretty much what having games use dolby is? the games passes the info on to the encoder (as on an nforce soundstorm) and this is sent to the receiver. its not translated from directsound3d but goes straight to dolby
what is different from this and 'true' surround in crysis?
what is different from this and 'true' surround in crysis?
There is generally no difference between various techniques for producing surround sound in games, as this typically happens at the API level. Most games that support surround sound in its various incarnations (4.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc.) can pan and mix events in software. With a hardware-based Creative Labs card, this processing is done in hardware (except in some circumstances), with generally greater precision across the mixing path.
On the subject of "Dolby Digital" games, the logo on the box means practically nothing. You still need a hardware- or software-based encoder at the back end to produce a S/PDIF-compatible AC3 stream. UT2004 uses AC3 for some audio assets (which explains the logo), and Ogg Vorbis and Speex for others.
On the subject of "Dolby Digital" games, the logo on the box means practically nothing. You still need a hardware- or software-based encoder at the back end to produce a S/PDIF-compatible AC3 stream. UT2004 uses AC3 for some audio assets (which explains the logo), and Ogg Vorbis and Speex for others.
thebeephaha
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My Auzentech X-Meridian has had this from day one... No funky drivers required...
And you can have it with your X-Fi if you get Daniels drivers.
Ugh.
All i want to know is why PC games are different from the entire high end audio market. Im pretty sure my $1600 Integra DTC-9.8 (a top of the line preamp processor) doesn't support this EAX stuff. Im gathering its more or less proprietary to PC games and/or Creative hardware. We have standards for surround encoding such as DD TrueHD and DTS HD MA, why cant PC games support that? Consoles have no problem with normal DD and will in the future have DD TrueHD support.
All i want to know is why PC games are different from the entire high end audio market. Im pretty sure my $1600 Integra DTC-9.8 (a top of the line preamp processor) doesn't support this EAX stuff. Im gathering its more or less proprietary to PC games and/or Creative hardware. We have standards for surround encoding such as DD TrueHD and DTS HD MA, why cant PC games support that? Consoles have no problem with normal DD and will in the future have DD TrueHD support.
For what possible reason would a pre-amp support EAX? Do you know what EAX is...?
PC games don't need to support encoding, nor could they ever support encoding (you can't just bypass the audio API). You buy a card or run an additional layer of software for that.
The cards themselves do support those standards. The stream produced by Dolby Digital Live is Dolby Digital. The stream produced by DTS Interactive is DTS. Totally, absolutely 100% compliant for transmission over S/PDIF or HDMI.
I don't understand the confusion.
robmarti25
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quick sound question. I am building a new computer right now. My last one was about 3 yrs ago. I have always put a sound card in. I use a computer for 80% gaming and the rest is internet. My computer while not a HTPC is hooked up to a plasma tv and I want to hook it up to my home theater to utilize my 7.1 speaker system. What is the best solution to get maximum audio effects for games to hook up to processor for my big speakers. I want to try and utilize the EAX 3/4/5 and other sound options in games to get 7.1 sound. Is creative cards the best for this, is there another card company that works better? I dont use my computer for dvd movies so DD decoding is not needed. Do I have to run analog cables to the processor or is there a digital way to do it? I have read the creative labs website and they say the optical out is stereo spdif, or multichannel run through which seems to talk about movies, but no where do they say what is the best option for games. Would running on board sound be best or do I lose a lot of sound effects with that?
-rob
-rob
ourfpshero
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for eax 3/4/5 its an x-fi you need. if the x-fi supports dolby digital live than you can run a digital hookup to your receiver (i believe)
otherwise you can always use the analogue connections
Because Dolby Digital Live and DTS Interactive are means of encoding a multichannel stream into an encoded stream. Dolby Digital and DTS are the marketing titles of the encoded streams (Dolby Digital is actually the AC3 format; DTS is actually the DTS Coherent Acoustics format). Get it?
Neither are exclusive to PC games (PC games don't support DDL or DTSI, remember?). Modern consoles use the exact same technology, they just don't advertise as such.
Slight correction: The Audigy (10K1) supports up to EAX 3.0; the Audigy 2 (10K2) supports up to EAX 4.0; the X-Fi (20K1) supports up to EAX 5.0.
If you specifically want EAX 5.0 support, yeah, you need something with the EMU20K2 (some of the X-Fis)
DefineByte
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With all the apparent confusion over what EAX actually is, I can't help thinking Creative are doing a really lousy job at marketing.
ourfpshero
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true- if u arent informed u could make a bad decision. of course the same is true for many pc components (and on anything really). i once had a clan-mate look for a 'gaming' sound card on newegg and he ended up buying a card that had the same chip as his onboard sound! i have had several friends buy lousy vid cards because they all sound great on the box but which one does what?
EAX is not the same as DD or DTS.
Dolby Digital and DTS are standards where one or many channels of audio are packed into a single digital bitstream. It can be compressed, uncompressed, lossless, lossy, etc, etc. It can be confusing because depending on what suffixes and prefixes are added to DD and DTS, it can mean different things, but for the bare non-prefixed and non-suffixed versions of DD and DTS, this really broad one sentence definition is largely correct.
EAX is a way for game programmers to specify how sound in a virtual 3D environment can be simulated to make audible sound effects. Things like how sound is reflected/transmitted in different environments are modeled using EAX. EAX actually uses models for the environment to generate the sounds. For example a gunshot in a cave will sound different than one in an apartment one room over.
CMSS/Dolby Pro Logic IIx/DTS Neo:6/SRS/QSound are all synthetic ways to fiddle with a stereo source with no knowlege of the actual positioning of the original sound sources to create a fake multichannel (usually 5.1 or more) or expanded soundstage stereo signal.
This creative speaker microsite has a pretty good explantion of CMSS and DD, etc...
http://www.creative.com/products/speakers/tech/?id=62790
The Soundblaster microsite has a description of how EAX works.
Just to confuse things, alot of the algorithms and hardware that makes EAX possible also allow CMSS to be applied to stereo sources... so creative labs like to describe CMSS as part of EAX.
The output of EAX can be multichannel sound that can then be encoded to the DD and DTS format using Dolby Live or the DTS interactive.
General Crespin
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In the press release they say these are the first native PCI Express x1 cards. So where ASUS used a bridge chip to convert on the PCB from PCI to PCI-E x1, does that mean this is native PCI-E x1?
^^ Ok some of what you said was helpful, and some I knew. Keep in mind I have been into high end home theater for awhile now.
phide, it just comes down to this. Why when my Xbox360 is plugged into my preamp/processor via S/PDIF playing CoD4, it detects the Dolby Digital stream.. etc and sends it out to the 7.1 discrete channels, yet when I have my PC connected via S/PDIF playing CoD4 I cant get the same experience. THATS all im trying to figure out. Why isnt discrete digital sound (whether it be compressed or not, dont care) used in PC games as it is on console games? IF that where the case, wouldnt these sound cards be useless?
phide, it just comes down to this. Why when my Xbox360 is plugged into my preamp/processor via S/PDIF playing CoD4, it detects the Dolby Digital stream.. etc and sends it out to the 7.1 discrete channels, yet when I have my PC connected via S/PDIF playing CoD4 I cant get the same experience. THATS all im trying to figure out. Why isnt discrete digital sound (whether it be compressed or not, dont care) used in PC games as it is on console games? IF that where the case, wouldnt these sound cards be useless?
robmarti25
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Hey, I hate to reiterate, but can someone help with my post number 60. I really want to get the full effect that pc games have through my home theater. From what I have read and surmised, I will not be able to do that by simply running a optical cable from my sound card, correct? Also, it seems that no on board audio takes full effect of most new games ability, correct? So if I got a X-FI card now and not these new ones or did get these new ones, what would have to do to extract the 7.1 audio and special eax 5.0 effects built into the newest games? thanks
-rob
-rob
So if a game supports DD Live, my preamp will recognize the signal coming out of my mobo's optical S/PDIF port and indicate as such that it see's a DD signal? Like the X360 and PS3 do? If not.. then.. i feel like im wasting my breath. Ill just go back to AVSForums.com...
Running analog cables would be the best solution currently. There are however two* (one available now, one perhaps later) digital solutions.
The first is the most obvious, Dolby Digital Live (the downside though it's only 5.1 and uses lossy compression). The two X-Fi cards that "officially" support Dolby Digital Live (DDL) are the Auzentech Prelude (PCI) and of course now the Titanium (PCI-E). All X-Fi cards support DDL through a driver hack made by DanielK on Creative's forum.
The second solution (which could be awhile) will eventually be a HDMI add-on card to the Prelude from Auzentech (I'm not sure if this add-on card will be compatible with all X-Fi cards or just the Prelude, I would guess though all X-Fi cards will work). Obviously the HDMI add-on card is the best digital solution (your sound card may still provide a better audio experience than your receiver, at which point analog would still be better than the HDMI solution) to your problem (the HDMI add-on card will be able to send 7.1 uncompressed audio digitally to your receiver).
Those are your choices.
No, Dolby Digital Live has nothing to do with games. Perhaps it's easier to understand in more general terms: Dolby Digital Live will convert ALL 5.1 audio from your PC to 5.1 Dolby Digital (your receiver will see the Dolby Digital signal). It's worth noting that the Xbox, Xbox 360, and PS3 all use Dolby Digital Live (although the PS3 I believe only uses it over the S/PDIF out, whereas the Xbox 360 uses Dolby Digital Live even with HDMI).
robmarti25
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Thanks Moofasa. I was thinking that was the answer I would come to but I appreciate the confirmation. So, I just keep my current card until on board improves.
NOW another question. SO Vista messes up soudn from newer games and they have come up with these new programs for it like alchemy. If I hook up the analog inputs to my receiver, do I still need the updates for my olded Xfi card?
Oh, and does best buy sell the break out cables to go to receiver for home theater.
-rob
NOW another question. SO Vista messes up soudn from newer games and they have come up with these new programs for it like alchemy. If I hook up the analog inputs to my receiver, do I still need the updates for my olded Xfi card?
Oh, and does best buy sell the break out cables to go to receiver for home theater.
-rob
You need to use ALchemy in any DirectSound application (game) under Vista regardless of what output is selected if you wish to restore hardware acceleration for those applications.
I just use these.