Creative Sound Blaster Z $80.39

Impulse said:
The capacitor quality has more to do with reliability than sound quality... If anything it'd fail before you notice any degradation. There seems to be some confusion about the caps actually used too, something about OEM cards having different ones etc... The thread on the audio section had some posts about it.
Click to expand...

The caps FILTER the sound. They have a significant effect on the card's sound quality. Read this thread:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=254935

ALL Creative cards except for the Titanium HD and the ZX/ZXR use Jamicons. That's why so many of them have died in past. Also, My X-Fi Elite Pro clearly DID NOT sound as well as it did in 2006 in 2011. I could easily hear that it was sounding worse due to the aged caps till one day one of them just leaked. Card dead. Terrible.
 
All I'm seeing is a 4-5 year old thread about single guy (are you Napalm?) modding an ancient card and posting belief subjective impressions about it (tho admittedly Aureal made some awesome stuff... that won't work on any modern OS unfortunately).
 
Impulse said:
All I'm seeing is a 4-5 year old thread about single guy (are you Napalm?) modding an ancient card and posting belief subjective impressions about it (tho admittedly Aureal made some awesome stuff... that won't work on any modern OS unfortunately).
Click to expand...

No, I'm not him. Well then you should go over Head-Fi and start reading the threads with cap mods in them. People don't spent $200 on caps for a difference you "won't notice". MANY audio enthuasiests in past have professional tested, and showed in audio suites that getting rid of Jamicon's with quality Japanese audio caps have significantly resulted in positive returns in sound quality and especially in reliability and sound quality overtime.
 
johnnydoe said:
The caps FILTER the sound. They have a significant effect on the card's sound quality. Read this thread:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=254935

ALL Creative cards except for the Titanium HD and the ZX/ZXR use Jamicons. That's why so many of them have died in past. Also, My X-Fi Elite Pro clearly DID NOT sound as well as it did in 2006 in 2011. I could easily hear that it was sounding worse due to the aged caps till one day one of them just leaked. Card dead. Terrible.
Click to expand...

I don't believe there is an epidemic of failing sound cards because of this.
 
johnnydoe said:
No, I'm not him. Well then you should go over Head-Fi and start reading the threads with cap mods in them. People don't spent $200 on caps for a difference you "won't notice". MANY audio enthuasiests in past have professional tested, and showed in audio suites that getting rid of Jamicon's with quality Japanese audio caps have significantly resulted in positive returns in sound quality and especially in reliability and sound quality overtime.
Click to expand...

Head-fi is liked reading wine reviews. Everyone is full of shit. And this is coming from someone with B&W speakers for a home theater.
 
ocellaris said:
I don't believe there is an epidemic of failing sound cards because of this.
Click to expand...

There is, there's no other part to fail on the Creative boards. It's such a wide spread issue, from Creative Live cards to X-Fi's that it can't be attributed to the sound chip, or anything else other than the capacitors. Like I said, My Elite Pro kept on sounding worse overtime till that shitty cap leaked and the card died.

ocellaris said:
Head-fi is liked reading wine reviews. Everyone is full of shit. And this is coming from someone with B&W speakers for a home theater.
Click to expand...

You referring to Head-Fi "shit" isn't going to change the fact that replacing shitty, NON-AUDIO caps with proper audio caps improves sound quality. Why do you think Auzentech uses Nichicon Muse-ES that give deep sound and bass, and Asus does with the Nichicon Fine-Gold's? Because they care about their consumer base and want to improve their cards as much as possible. Creative, on the other hand, doesn't give a shit. It can be seen by the inconsistancy in sound quality and the extremely poor PCB quality of the Recon3D cards and the SB-Z. And their driver fiasco, of course.
 
been using my X-Fi Platinum since it was launched and zero issues. Still sounds great. Thinking about getting either this card or the Zx when it comes out
 
johnnydoe said:
You referring to Head-Fi "shit" isn't going to change the fact that replacing shitty, NON-AUDIO caps with proper audio caps improves sound quality. Why do you think Auzentech uses Nichicon Muse-ES that give deep sound and bass, and Asus does with the Nichicon Fine-Gold's? Because they care about their consumer base and want to improve their cards as much as possible. Creative, on the other hand, doesn't give a shit. It can be seen by the inconsistancy in sound quality and the extremely poor PCB quality of the Recon3D cards and the SB-Z. And their driver fiasco, of course.
Click to expand...

You should check this out:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

Among the various things in here, a $300 audiophile cap was unable to beat a $1 capacitor from Radio Shack in blind testing.

And speaking of driver fiascos, why would you recommend Auzentech ANYTHING when they can't even release a X-Fi driver until they get files from Creative Labs? None of the X-Fi cards have proper Windows 8 drivers until Creative Labs helps them out...

http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/pressrelease_11062012_windows_8_.php

Creative has promised the drivers for X-Fi Forte and X-Fi HomeTheater HD in mid-January, 2013
Click to expand...
 
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ocellaris said:
Head-fi is liked reading wine reviews. Everyone is full of shit. And this is coming from someone with B&W speakers for a home theater.
Click to expand...

There's still plenty of good headphone discussions there, just gotta take it all with a grain of salt and realize they tend to blow the most minute differences way out of proportion... That and realize that a few times a year there'll be some FotM budget giant killer that gets over hyped to hell and then people move on.

There's a lot of creepy fanbois for certain brands/models too but there's still a lot of objective posters trying to write unbiased comparisons. I've learned a lot there... I wouldn't bother wading too deep into Head Fi for amp recommendations and more technical stuff like the cap mods being alluded to here tho, too much subjective FUD.
 
ocellaris said:
You should check this out:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

Among the various things in here, a $300 audiophile cap was unable to beat a $1 capacitor from Radio Shack in blind testing.

"The Bastard Box – The author made an audiophile grade box comparing a $300 audiophile capacitor with a $1 capacitor from Radio Shack with the flip of a switch. He correctly identified the audiophile capacitor in blind listening only 7 of 12 times. Pure random guessing would be 6 of 12. By the statistical guidelines for blind testing, he needed to be correct 10 of 12 times for a meaningful (95% confidence) result. He failed so Radio Shack wins."
Click to expand...

lol. Are you kidding me? Alright, for starters no single audio cap for a sound card costs $300. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to make up to $300 for ALL caps to recap a sound card. If he replaced in SINGLE capacitor, and compared it with an another then he obviously isn't going to notice a difference.

"He failed so RadioShack" wins. ROFL.

ocellaris said:
And speaking of driver fiascos, why would you recommend Auzentech ANYTHING when they can't even release a X-Fi driver until they get files from Creative Labs? None of the X-Fi cards have proper Windows 8 drivers until Creative Labs helps them out...

http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/pressrelease_11062012_windows_8_.php
Click to expand...

Not all Auzen cards are based on X-Fi. Most are, but not all so you can't say Auzentech ANYTHING.

I'd suggest their cards because they're very well made and very competitively priced. Win 8 drivers at this rate aren't much people's concern. You're making up excuses in an hope to outsmart me.
 
Any audio reviews need to read with a grain of salt. I use Beyer DT990 600ohm headphones as my main cans on my desktop, but most of the time I am more than happy cranking up my Energy C2 monitors instead.

Granted I have Martin Logan Spires for my main HT and I absolutely love them. I have used about 10 or so different desktop setups and none of them has been terrible. Still working around to figure out what is the most preferred setup for me.

Audio is all too subjective anyway to get caught up in any one review.
 
johnnydoe said:
No, I'm not him. Well then you should go over Head-Fi and start reading the threads with cap mods in them. People don't spent $200 on caps for a difference you "won't notice". MANY audio enthuasiests in past have professional tested, and showed in audio suites that getting rid of Jamicon's with quality Japanese audio caps have significantly resulted in positive returns in sound quality and especially in reliability and sound quality overtime.
Click to expand...

You're right, people don't spend $200 on stuff that might not make a difference, they spend thousands! Once you move past headphones, the amount of snake oil on Head Fi is just astounding (with anything from cables to amps). Even when it comes to headphones you need to wade thru a lot of crap to get at the good content, as I alluded to on the post above.

If you've got links to these professional tests I'd be genuinely interested tho.
 
runnin17 said:
Any audio reviews need to read with a grain of salt. I use Beyer DT990 600ohm headphones as my main cans on my desktop, but most of the time I am more than happy cranking up my Energy C2 monitors instead.

Granted I have Martin Logan Spires for my main HT and I absolutely love them. I have used about 10 or so different desktop setups and none of them has been terrible. Still working around to figure out what is the most preferred setup for me.

Audio is all too subjective anyway to get caught up in any one review.
Click to expand...

There's nothing subjective about audio electronics tho, or very little unless you're purposely trying to deviate from accurate reproduction of the source material. Speakers/headphones, yeah, way more subjective... Specially headphones, there's comfort issues and whatnot.
 
Impulse said:
You're right, people don't spend $200 on stuff that might not make a difference, they spend thousands! Once you move past headphones, the amount of snake oil on Head Fi is just astounding (with anything from cables to amps). Even when it comes to headphones you need to wade thru a lot of crap to get at the good content, as I alluded to on the post above.

If you've got links to these professional tests I'd be genuinely interested tho.
Click to expand...

I've seen them ages ago, don't know where they are anymore but they've been done using RMAA tests anybody can do.

And well, I personally can confirm that NOT everything and every buck people spent on Head-Fi is done for nothing. When I replaced my aged Elite Pro with a Supreme FX 2, harmonic distortion was CLEARLY sounding cleaner. So was the frequency response. Aged shitty caps that're ABOUT TO DIE definately make an impact on the sound card's SQ.
 
Couples things - the Z and Zx are the EXACT same freaking card, FYI. The Zx offers the extra piece - the PCB n all is the same.

I've owned a shit-ton of SB cards - NEVER had an issue with anyone of 'em except for shitty Vista drivers . And I skipped over the POS Recon3D.

Also, the drivers for the Z are night and day, on W7 and W8 - I've ran the card on both OSs. Thing sounds great.

And are these shitty caps you're spouting off about? Cause these are what's coming on the Z cards.

6ej1ci.jpg
 
johnnydoe said:
I've seen them ages ago, don't know where they are anymore but they've been done using RMAA tests anybody can do.

And well, I personally can confirm that NOT everything and every buck people spent on Head-Fi is done for nothing. When I replaced my aged Elite Pro with a Supreme FX 2, harmonic distortion was CLEARLY sounding cleaner. So was the frequency response. Aged shitty caps that're ABOUT TO DIE definately make an impact on the sound card's SQ.
Click to expand...

And when they do fail its time for a new sound card anyway as there a better out there anyway. Or if your a cheap ass you replace the caps and be done with it. :rolleyes:
 
Brahmzy said:
And are these shitty caps you're spouting off about? Cause these are what's coming on the Z cards.
Click to expand...

That's NOT a picture of the Z and those Nichicon Fine-Gold's are NOT what come with the Z. The Z uses a much smaller, Recon3D PCB with a few black Jamicons, whereas the ZX and the ZXR is outfitted with a ton of more components, and full of Nichicon Fine-Golds. You should do some research, or at least have a proper understanding of the subject you're on about before you post.

LOCO LAPTOP said:
And when they do fail its time for a new sound card anyway as there a better out there anyway. Or if your a cheap ass you replace the caps and be done with it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It was a top of the line $350 sound card. Replacing the caps isn't always an option as it posseses a failure threat since the card was made to work with specific ESR caps and the much lower ESR of the higher quality caps can break it down. I'd have much rather sold it then to have a $350 card shit out on me.
 
johnnydoe said:
That's NOT a picture of the Z and those Nichicon Fine-Gold's are NOT what come with the Z. The Z uses a much smaller, Recon3D PCB with a few black Jamicons, whereas the ZX and the ZXR is outfitted with a ton of more components, and full of Nichicon Fine-Golds. You should do some research, or at least have a proper understanding of the subject you're on about before you post.
Click to expand...

Damn you're dense. Here's another reviewer's pic - same card, same layout, same caps. I verified my Z had the gold caps as well. Do I need to pull it out and take a picture for you? Please STFU and quit posting BS like you do in your other threads, of which you get called out on, on a regular basis.

sbz01.png
[/URL]
 
Brahmzy said:
Damn you're dense. Here's another reviewer's pic - same card, same layout, same caps. I verified my Z had the gold caps as well. Do I need to pull it out and take a picture for you? Please STFU and quit posting BS like you do in your other threads, of which you get called out on, on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

When I Google image searched the Z, this was what I found. Does this look like BS to you?

http://personalaudio.ru/upload/medialibrary/d8a/d8a1a0077baf283952ef6c3898e2ee6d.jpg

Do I see some shitty Jamicons in there? Yes, I do. Is it my fault for not catching an image of the revised card? No, it isn't.

And the Z DOES NOT have the same PCB as the ZX. Since you can't seem to compare, I'll make it easier for you.

This is the Z:

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9200/sbz01.png

And this one is the ZX:

http://personalaudio.ru/upload/medialibrary/819/819b345d95049a1796d221a825663262.jpg

Does it look different to me? Oh, yes, it does.

As for the BS I post in other threats... What the hell do I care what you think, brah, bro? You're an Internet person I'll never see. I'd just tell you to kiss off here. And if I saw you I'd tell you to kiss off too.

Have a nice day sir.
 
johnnydoe And this one is the ZX: [URL said:
http://personalaudio.ru/upload/medialibrary/819/819b345d95049a1796d221a825663262.jpg[/URL]
Click to expand...

that isnt the Zx. The Zx has totally different connectors off the back.
 
jonniedoe

OMG - thank you for proving yourself wrong... AGAIN. A - you admitted you're wrong, but then continue to spout false BS after admitting you're wrong. So you now agree that the Z cards have gold caps, despite still continuing to try to save face and spout BS about "revised cards".

How many times do you have to be told, the Z and the Zx ARE THE SAME EFFING CARD. That bottom picture that you randomly grabbed off some Austalian site is the ZxR. Look on creative's own website and compare the physical dimensions. Can I make it any easier for you?

HOW'S THIS FOR A CLUE? That bottom link shows the ZxR PCB with the RCA plugs on it. The Z and Zx don't have RCA plugs - they both have mini-phono plugs - why? Because they are the same card. Looks at the specs. Read the reviews - one example:

"The Sound Blaster Z incorporates all the hardware and software features of the Sound Blaster Zx except for the Audio Control Module."

http://www.overclock.net/products/creative-70sb150000000-sound-card

Look at the size of the cards in this pic below - who's the freaking blind one? That would be you.
1005238


Geez dude - Just quit now. None of what you posted was correct and I've proven that. Just stop. Take your BS elsewhere.
 
Brahmzy said:
OMG - thank you for proving yourself wrong... AGAIN. A - you admitted you're wrong, but then continue to spout false BS after admitting you're wrong. So you now agree that the Z cards have gold caps, despite still continuing to try to save face and spout BS about "revised cards".
Click to expand...

You silly. That's because that picture I found of the early review sample had Jamicon's on. The ones you later posted showed Nichicon Fine-Gold's on, thus, a revision change was made before the cards went retail.

Brahmzy said:
How many times do you have to be told, the Z and the Zx ARE THE SAME EFFING CARD. That bottom picture that you randomly grabbed off some Austalian site is the ZxR.
Click to expand...

That's what I found when I Google image searched the ZX. Not my fault, the Australian's site's.

Brahmzy said:
Geez dude - Just quit now. None of what you posted was correct and I've proven that. Just stop. Take your BS elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Most was, and I don't have to keep up with Creative's poorly built cards I don't care. I came upon my conclusions from the pics I found off Google image search. Not that I bother to go creative.com. Kiss off buddy.
 
If you bothered to click your own google image url (http://personalaudio.ru/detail/foto_kart_sound_blaster_z_i_zxr_iznutri/) you'd find out that's a pict of the ZxR board. The only difference between the Z and the Zx is the inclusion of the volume knob / microphone port accessory. They have the same PCB.

Some Zs and Zxs are shipping with GF caps (not all). I hope the Z I ordered has the GF caps but if it doesn't, no big deal.

johnnydoe said:
When I Google image searched the Z, this was what I found. Does this look like BS to you?

http://personalaudio.ru/upload/medialibrary/d8a/d8a1a0077baf283952ef6c3898e2ee6d.jpg

Do I see some shitty Jamicons in there? Yes, I do. Is it my fault for not catching an image of the revised card? No, it isn't.

And the Z DOES NOT have the same PCB as the ZX. Since you can't seem to compare, I'll make it easier for you.

This is the Z:

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9200/sbz01.png

And this one is the ZX:

http://personalaudio.ru/upload/medialibrary/819/819b345d95049a1796d221a825663262.jpg

Does it look different to me? Oh, yes, it does.

As for the BS I post in other threats... What the hell do I care what you think, brah, bro? You're an Internet person I'll never see. I'd just tell you to kiss off here. And if I saw you I'd tell you to kiss off too.

Have a nice day sir.
Click to expand...
 
johnnydoe said:
The caps FILTER the sound. They have a significant effect on the card's sound quality. Read this thread:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=254935

ALL Creative cards except for the Titanium HD and the ZX/ZXR use Jamicons. That's why so many of them have died in past. Also, My X-Fi Elite Pro clearly DID NOT sound as well as it did in 2006 in 2011. I could easily hear that it was sounding worse due to the aged caps till one day one of them just leaked. Card dead. Terrible.
Click to expand...

Were you available to do side by side comparisons of the card in 2006 and 2011? Probably not, unless you took technical measurements. You are a fool if you think your memory of what the card sounded like in 2006 is at all accurate.

johnnydoe said:
No, I'm not him. Well then you should go over Head-Fi and start reading the threads with cap mods in them. People don't spent $200 on caps for a difference you "won't notice". MANY audio enthuasiests in past have professional tested, and showed in audio suites that getting rid of Jamicon's with quality Japanese audio caps have significantly resulted in positive returns in sound quality and especially in reliability and sound quality overtime.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes they will. People spend ridiculous amounts of money on all sorts of shit, claiming to hear a huge difference where simple knowledge of physics and electronics dictates there can be no audible difference. To the extent that there may be a difference at all (and often there isn't), it would happen so far beyond the spectrum of audio frequencies that it's just silly.

It's not that these people are lying, but they are not able to approach this subject from an objective stand point and are easily conned by snake oil sales men due to expectation bias. To learn more about how expectation bias affects our perception of audio, check out this presentation from the 2009 Audio Engineers Society convention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

It's about an hour long, but it's very interesting and well worth your time if you're interested in audio.
 
curtisfong said:
If you bothered to click your own google image url (http://personalaudio.ru/detail/foto_kart_sound_blaster_z_i_zxr_iznutri/) you'd find out that's a pict of the ZxR board.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. I've been rushing up. I instantly made the Google search and took the pic that came out when I looked up for the ZX. My bad.

mesasone said:
Were you available to do side by side comparisons of the card in 2006 and 2011? Probably not, unless you took technical measurements. You are a fool if you think your memory of what the card sounded like in 2006 is at all accurate.
Click to expand...

No, the card clearly sounded MUCH WORSE before the point of failure, the treble was messed up. All bloated and nowhere as clean as it once was. I replaced the failed Elite Pro with the Supreme FX 2 and the sound was much cleaner in more than one aspect.

mesasone said:
It's not that these people are lying, but they are not able to approach this subject from an objective stand point and are easily conned by snake oil sales men due to expectation bias. To learn more about how expectation bias affects our perception of audio, check out this presentation from the 2009 Audio Engineers Society convention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

It's about an hour long, but it's very interesting and well worth your time if you're interested in audio.
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Number the time where it says capacitor choice doesn't affect sound quality. I, from first hand experience, KNOW that shitty capacitors that're at the POINT OF FAILURE make the card sound crappy. It is what it is. Creative, years after realized this and switched to quality caps. Asus knew this all the way along and have used solid caps even on $50 sound cards. Enough is enough.
 
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You're blaming your erranous posts on Google? And me? And everyone else?

Man up dude. Sooner or later in life you're going to have take responsibility for yourself.
 
Brahmzy said:
You're blaming your erranous posts on Google? And me? And everyone else?

Man up dude. Sooner or later in life you're going to have take responsibility for yourself.
Click to expand...

Do I really need to repeat? The pic for the Z I found, the REVIEW sample, had fucking Jamicons on. The one you then posted had Nichicons. So there WAS, a revision change. Period. End of story. I don't have to keep track of everything, especially a cheap and poorly built Creative card with no Proadlizers as opposed to Asus or Auzen's offerings I personally don't give a shit about since I have an HomeTheater HD.
 
johnnydoe said:
Most was, and I don't have to keep up with Creative's poorly built cards I don't care. I came upon my conclusions from the pics I found off Google image search. Not that I bother to go creative.com. Kiss off buddy.
Click to expand...

So why are you in this thread if you don't care about creative? Oh that's right to troll.
 
LOCO LAPTOP said:
So why are you in this thread if you don't care about creative? Oh that's right to troll.
Click to expand...

I personally don't, but would also like to inform others to not care about cards built poorly, which was what my original post was on. It from there on went off range due to some posters buying inferior sound cards to the competition.

cjhatesu said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RID-gqSw85o
Chuck always helps me wash off that dirty feeling you have when you realize you got a bit too involved in a heated internet discussion that makes absolutely no difference in your life or future.

Ah feels so good.
Click to expand...

Oh man, what's this softcore pop-jazz BS? Insult to my ears it is. What was I listening a few minutes ago? Oh, yeah, here it is. Refreshment for your ears that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5bO05C6N_s
 
Porter_ said:
yep quite a show.
well, i'm off to patrol Toyota dealerships and warn people not to buy them because they use inferior gas caps.
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lmao nice way to tie in the caps

In other news I'll be excited to see if this shielded card will really help with all the interference that I am picking up off my video card.
 
Not sure how well a shield with a big plastic see thru window's really gonna work... Seems like it's as much for show as anything else.
 
At least Creative's customer service will get back to you about warranty claims...can't say that about their competitors (Auzentech). Got the Z to replace recon 3d.
 
I knew this would happen... it ALWAYS happens! I purchased (and installed) the base Z from Amazon last week for $108 and then THIS. I am however NOT returning mine because I almost freaked when I noticed that the capacitors used were Nichicon Fine-Gold. :D

So I can confirm that at least my base Z model came with the FG caps, for what its worth. Oh and upgrading from an X-Fi Gamer, I can tell you the difference is HUGE: the sound-stage is so much clearer and more-defined in music, movies and gaming! I still have to calibrate the sound to my cans, but FPS gaming with scout mode (doesn't work in all games) = gravy, and my wife really likes the feature to enhance speech in movies. The headphone surround features are pretty decent as well, as I can now place explosions, incoming vehicles and firefights within PlanetSide 2 with sound alone.

The software itself is so ridiculously different than the older X-Fi control panel and I really do like it, as I can switch between speaker and headphone without having to unplug anything and also setup presets for different modes (e.g., movie watching, listening to music, gaming, etc.). The fact that I had no issues installing on Win7 from the CD (which is something I NEVER do), states volumes about the improvement of the software.

Overall for that price, I would DEFINITELY recommend this card!
 
Impulse said:
All I'm seeing is a 4-5 year old thread about single guy (are you Napalm?) modding an ancient card and posting belief subjective impressions about it (tho admittedly Aureal made some awesome stuff... that won't work on any modern OS unfortunately).
Click to expand...

JD is absolutely correct. Capacitors do FILTER the sound. How much effect they have on the card's sound quality, I personally do not know.

However, as a person who has modded several of his own speakers and consulted with speaker designers, caps do matter beyond their fail rate. Capacitors do not technically make things sound better. They can only make things sound worse. The real question is, how much worse. Good caps do less damage in the signal path than do worse ones.
 
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