CPU Usage Differences after Applying Meltdown Patch at Epic Games

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ardness Supreme

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    Gotcha! But because they aren't running IO heavy tasks as an "average user" they probably won't be affected.
     
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  2. harmattan

    harmattan [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sitting pretty over here with my 1600.

    What, if any, recourse here do enterprise clients and consumers have with Intel? I would think if it can be shown that Intel knew about this for 6 months (or longer) at least those people or businesses that had purchased Intel in that time would be due compensation?
     
  3. Slade

    Slade 2[H]4U

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    This looks bad for the entire server world. Next week is going to be hell.
     
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  4. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Looks relatively linear. Look at the data points: 10 vs 27 (2.7x hit), 22 vs 58 (2.6x hit)
     
  5. almalino

    almalino [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why next week? Amazon already applied patches last week. And many servers already experience some slowdowns. Mine servers got ~1-2% hit. Not much luckily
     
  6. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    This is a bit different then string theory or plate tectonics or for that matter anything doing with natural law.

    I am curious to understand, do you have any examples of this happening I can review?
     
  7. Evildead666

    Evildead666 n00b

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    Quite a few high-end NAS's have Celeron/Pentium and i3/i5/i7 chips in them.
    I wonder what the impact would be on those (if they are updated...)
     
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  8. jojo69

    jojo69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Lol!, How far back do you want to go? How much time do you have?

    Let's begin with the Gulf of Tonkin incident. If you get through that you can start in on the Church committee reports detailing Cointelpro and MK Ultra.

    I bring up these, rather old, examples to demonstrate one of the primary mechanisms at work here. By their very nature these initiatives are "secret" and as such most are only convinced about them later, by which time they are "old news" and everything just goes on as if nothing had happened.

    If, 10 years ago, I had posited that a 3 letter agency was gathering metadata on every cellphone I would have been (and was) branded a kook...but here we are.

    You are, of course, welcome to keep your head in the sand, but the Vault7 dump is out there.
     
  9. DF-1

    DF-1 2[H]4U

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    sounds like intel is going to make even more money then!
     
  10. STrAYeR

    STrAYeR Limp Gawd

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    I've heard claims that say AMD cpu's are effected. The only reason AMD keep saying AMD cpu's are not effected is because of future lawsuits. Deny it enough and people look the other way or keep rolling with intel.
     
  11. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    What do you think AMD is denying?

    https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution
     
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  12. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    But do AMD cpus lose performance? That's part of the lawsuit. If it was patched without any loss in performance then it's fine. Intel can't make that claim.
     
  13. SighTurtle

    SighTurtle [H]ard|Gawd

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    People need to wait until the patching and fixes start winding down, way too much stuff coming out all at once that needs to be settled before benchmarks start showing conclusive info about performance hits.
     
  14. HockeyJon

    HockeyJon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Apparently long enough for the CEO to dump stock.
     
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  15. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    Saw these on Reddit.



     
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  16. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    I think there's a misunderstanding here about who and what is affected by this flaw/patch. Applications that have to make a lot of calls to kernel are where the biggest impact is going to be. Typical home users (including us as gamers) are not going to see a huge impact because the applications we run don't make that many calls to the kernel address space.
     
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  17. Azphira

    Azphira [H]ard|Gawd

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    Home users will be fine, commercial users are fucked by what I can see so far.
     
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  18. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    Depends on the business' workload. Some applications will be affected more than others. I'm not from the coding side of IT so I could be wrong but my bet is on DB applications being hit the hardest.
     
  19. Azphira

    Azphira [H]ard|Gawd

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    And Fortnite loses more fps due to lack of sli scaling than KB4056892.
     
  20. jojo69

    jojo69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    what about DCers? we run our boxen 100% 24-7
     
  21. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think DC will be affected much.
     
  22. My virus scan times have shot through the roof. I'm looking at the kernel time on the win 10 performance monitor and it looks obscene on ivy bridge.
     
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  23. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    DC as in domain controller? I imagine you are going to see a hit, AD is a database after all. You guys need to resize your environment regardless...100% utilization 24/7 is terribad.
     
  24. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Distributed computing. Folding@home and such.
     
  25. SighTurtle

    SighTurtle [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wonder if Ubisoft is suffering a problem related to Meltdown and Spectre? Their servers went belly up a few hours ago. (No evidence, just idle speculation)
     
  26. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    lol my bad, was using the wrong set of acronyms. I guess you guys may see a small hit but nothing substantial I imagine.
     
  27. aaronspink

    aaronspink [H]ard|Gawd

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    That explanation is literally about as wrong and incorrect as can be, fyi. Neither of Spectre/Meltdown have anything to do with encryption.
     
  28. aaronspink

    aaronspink [H]ard|Gawd

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    AMD is apparently unaffected by the particular issue involved in Meltdown but is affected by the issues presented by Spectre.
     
  29. aaronspink

    aaronspink [H]ard|Gawd

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    Should be effectively zero impact. Almost entirely CPU bound with little to no I/O.
     
  30. jojo69

    jojo69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I should have been more specific, this space is acronym heavy like no other
     
  31. jwcalla

    jwcalla 2[H]4U

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    inb4 Shintai reminds us all that this is just one big nothingburger
     
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  32. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    My only disagreement here is that we are being told there is a performance hit somewhere in the area of 5-30%. Consumers shouldn't see it because they don't use their systems anywhere near full capacity. In this guy's case running it 100% full bore, he is going to see an impact. The OS is going to be slower and on those "occasional" kernel calls it is going to be slower. I could be wrong but my gut says even a purely compute load like folding is going to feel it.
     
  33. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    If this impact SQL significantly it will be causing me pain. I upgraded our SQL server last year (doubled the CPU & Memory). I'd hate to have to upgrade again.
     
  34. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    So far nobody can fix Spectre on any CPU, which does include AMD. But only Intel has to deal with Meltdown. Meltdown gives hackers the ability to read kernel memory, which is nastier than plain Spectre. Spectre generally can't be fixed without replacing the CPU entirely, and even then it seems that the future of CPU's have to be totally redesigned. Meltdown is Spectre but a very nasty version of it. So nasty that Intel's fix is sacrificing a good 20% of the performance but disabling Branch Prediction. That's literally a feature found on the CPU that increases performance.

    Here's the 3 exploits that are effecting CPUs. Intel is effected by all 3, and Variant #3 is Meltdown. AMD doesn't have #3 at all, but does have #1 which "maybe" already fixed. Number 2 has a near zero chance to effect AMD so it doesn't apply to their CPUs. Number 1's only fix is to make the OS more secure. Number 3 can run through a javascript through the web browser. You can see why Intel is down right fucked right now.

    • CVE-2017-5753 (variant #1/Spectre) is a Bounds-checking exploit during branching. This issue is fixed with a kernel patch. Variant #1 protection is always enabled; it is not possible to disable the patches. Red Hat’s performance testing for variant #1 did not show any measurable impact.

    • CVE-2017-5715 (variant #2/Spectre) is an indirect branching poisoning attack that can lead to data leakage. This attack allows for a virtualized guest to read memory from the host system. This issue is corrected with microcode, along with kernel and virtualization updates to both guest and host virtualization software. This vulnerability requires both updated microcode and kernel patches. Variant #2 behavior is controlled by the ibrs and ibpb tunables (noibrs/ibrs_enabled and noibpb/ibpb_enabled), which work in conjunction with the microcode.

    • CVE-2017-5754 (variant #3/Meltdown) is an exploit that uses speculative cache loading to allow a local attacker to be able to read the contents of memory. This issue is corrected with kernel patches. Variant #3 behavior is controlled by the pti tunable (nopti/pti_enabled).

     
  35. jojo69

    jojo69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    how is it these things had logos all ready to go?
     
  36. aaronspink

    aaronspink [H]ard|Gawd

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    The 5-30% is on server workloads that do significant I/O. Things like folding basically do no I/O and won't really feel it at all.
     
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  37. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Watch the now twenty year old movie Enemy of the State starrring Gene Hackman and Will Smith (NSA also has a starring role).
     
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  38. SighTurtle

    SighTurtle [H]ard|Gawd

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    This was discovered months ago (June 2017?) but was kept under wraps to investigate and get fixes written up by the vendors affected.
     
  39. jojo69

    jojo69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    and has a PR team with graphic artists?
     
  40. aaronspink

    aaronspink [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, Project Zero is a google operation. I'm pretty sure they can spare a day or two of a graphic designer's time without breaking the budget.
     
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