Could a 'Printable Gun' Change the World?

michael.pa2 said:
Either way,it points out the big problem this could pose. A gun that can beat security metal detectors? Not really the most brilliant idea,is it?
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Imagine if some good folks on the 9/11 flight had a few guns on them...
Government control is the bane of existence.
 
Globox said:
You wouldn't download a car... oh wait
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came here to say this... as 3D printing becomes more refined I can easily see a future where we print replacement parts we need.

Given enough time -- I can see a future where the idea of "companies" that we have today are totally broken and busted. It would come down to the people with the ideas, and the people with the raw materials. The first though is how it would be a wasteland of CAD file piracy and everyone would be driving a year 2050 Mercedes Benz no matter their income level. I would guess for society to stay afloat some crazy security/encryption on the data itself would have to be invented. Quantum level? Who knows.

It would be great in the long run I think -- it means anyone with a great idea that designs something can real *ALL* the benefits from selling it, you wouldn't have to have connections or personality, just a good idea.
 
BBA said:
Imagine if some good folks on the 9/11 flight had a few guns on them...
Government control is the bane of existence.
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A gunfight on a plane would have probably killed everyone anyway and the plane would have gone down in another part of the city.
 
Ashbringer said:
The guy did talk about the need for higher quality plastics. So no, there isn't a working 3D printed gun yet. If you've ever tried plastic welding, you would know that a lot of plastics melt easily with the heat of a soldering gun. Very few plastics are resistant to high heat. Probably because nobody would ever waste their time trying to use plastic for something that can be done with metal.

3D printers will be used to make parts which you would need to assemble to get a working product. It wouldn't be for nothing much else besides making statues otherwise.
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I was thinking the same thing, after spending thirty years in manufacturing. But then I remembered back in the 80's-90's there were working prototypes of plastic/polymer Indy/F1 engines, and yes the cylinder bores and pistons were made of plastic ! Possibly water cool the barrel from the back side like engine cylinders ? I had seen it originaly in a printed magazine like Hot Rod or Circle Track back then, but this is all I could find in a quick Google search
http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-thi...tti-holtzberg-and-his-composite-engine-block/

Having said that though, the printer would need to achieve higher temps to mould the material, than the material would see in actual use. Unless we end up with a printer that could blend material, ie: adding a resin similar to mixing a 2 part epoxy.

I still think at the end of the day it would be cheaper and easier to conceal an actual working gun in your residence, than having the correct type of printer, printing material, CAD file etc. at ones residence
 
Check the timeline at the end of the article, in 1969 they had a plastic Austin Mini piston that could survive 20 mins of use, so assuming 2000rpm in the test engine, that would be 40,000 fuel vapour explosions before failure, and that was over 40 years ago !
 
DeathPrincess said:
A gunfight on a plane would have probably killed everyone anyway and the plane would have gone down in another part of the city.
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Despite what you see in the movies -- firing a gun and piercing the skin of the plane will not cause instant death or for the plane to suddenly fall out of the sky.

You will get decompression yes, but the oxygen masks drop in that event. Given the way things turned out -- having one or two "gun nuts" on the plane could have saved 3000 peoples lives.

People can argue in circles about what might have or have not happened had there been a concealed carry person on board. At the end of the day all we know is there is no way it could have ended worse than it already did.

I went through all the hoops, the background checks, and I'm fully licensed to carry a concealed handgun here in Texas. Do I carry it all the time? of course not. I'm glad I have the option when I feel I need it though.

Look at every other thing in the world that's been banned - if someone wants something they will get it. End of story.

At the end of the day the common denominator to every one of these sick things is people. People kill people. It's terrible and sad, and I've though how instead of a 9-5 job, I'd love to have a time machine and go back in time and stop crazy nuts like this.... with extreme prejudice :cool::cool::cool:
 
colinstu said:
printable nukes. just add nuclear materials! </tinfoilhat>
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Nukes aren't that complicated, at least they don't have to be. A thick steel pipe (or a surplus artillery barrel) welded shut on both ends with explosives and highly enriched uranium in one end and a larger lump of uranium in the other end and you've got pretty much what they dropped on Hiroshima.

Again, the hard part is getting the highly enriched uranium. The rest can be done in a month using publicly available resources and a dozen engineers.
 
Technology is often a game changer. Eventually, technology will allow any country to easily get nuclear weapons and any individual to print a gun.
 
What you are seeing is the burgeoning vision of replication technology. The only limit in this regard is the material spools themselves. Those will be a target of regulation if this becomes a threat to whoever deems it a threat. However, I find that unlikely. Until someone can figure out how to get away from using something other than these specific materials, we will be locked into their use for a long time and there are only so many people that fabricate them as it is.
 
Ducman69 said:
You don't even need precision barrels.

Just about anyone that paid attention in shop class should be able to produce a simple shotgun, as the barrel doesn't even need rifling so any reasonably straight pipe will do.
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Yea it is called a zip gun people been building those forever you do not need a 3D printer, but if you want a reliable accurate firearm you need precision machined steel components such as barrels, bolts/slides.
 
BBA said:
Imagine if some good folks on the 9/11 flight had a few guns on them...
Government control is the bane of existence.
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Now this has devolved it to the silly, you cannot build a gun with out metal.
 
Obligatory Simpsons quote:
Kodos said:
That board with a nail in it may have defeated us, but the humans won't stop there. They'll make bigger boards and bigger nails, and soon, they will make a board with a nail so big, it will destroy them all!
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collegeboy69us said:
Despite what you see in the movies -- firing a gun and piercing the skin of the plane will not cause instant death or for the plane to suddenly fall out of the sky.
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You forget one thing. If the passengers are allowed guns, the attackers will have them too. Now, you have a bunch of "gun nuts" trying to be heroes for the day, like they see in the movies, and a bunch of organized gun armed terrorists, with a plan. Who do you think would win exactly? You have to also remember that people wouldn't have known the end goal, or that this was going to happen, this is all hindsight.

Theres not much to stop the pilot/co-pilot being shot. They were protected by a curtain I suppose, but still. Once they have control of the cockpit, game over.

Also arming people on a plane means the level of power the passengers have is heightened. Taking over a plane with a sharp piece of plastic vs 500 people isn't as easy as 500 panicked people. Plus you'd probably not want some crazy guy fresh from watching Woo films take on the bad guys in a crowded room, or what they perceived as the bad guys. It's unlikely that some untrained citizen would be able to deal with it and not cause way more panic and possible injuries/fatalities in their pursuit of Hollywood glory.
 
I find the concept to be beyond idiotic. If you can get a 3D printer, you can get a gun. Or you can make a gun the old fashioned way. People have been making guns for 500 years, it's not a big deal.

This thing is like taking the Space Shuttle for a spin around the block to get beer. OMG WHERE DID THAT BEER COME FROM?
 
derp said:
As a business located within the United States, this is possibly illegal. Kyocera stated their ceramic knives contain trace amounts of metal shavings to be poured into moldings, so they can be detected by metal detectors. This was a requirement by the federal government. Supplying civilians (and criminals) with the tools necessary to create a weapon that does not comply to US regulations is effectively aiding in criminal activity and could be seen as an act of terrorism.

Yes, criminals could obtain a real handgun for far less, but a handgun that can be quickly reproduced & melted down after being discharged could become a very useful tool to larger criminal organizations. Along with it being able to pass air port security. Which a ceramic Glock supposedly can, yet I've never seen solid proof that a modern Glock can beat airport security. Just the stupid old internet claiming it can and we all know the internet is never wrong. pfft
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It is legal, with certain restrictions, to make a firearm for personal use in the US now without a Federal Firearms manufacture's license. and people have been making "zip guns" for years, crude dangerous weapons made from hardware store parts.

No criminal is going to spend the money on a 3D printer when obtaining a "throwaway" real gun is so easy.

and no, a glock can't pass airport security, you have been watching to many "Die Hard" movies if you believe there is a ceramic glock....

This won't go far anyway, printers will have the same restrictions color copiers do on reproducing money, even assuming you could print a firearm that won't be more dangerous to yourself than who you are shooting, it is a violation of the "undetectable firearms act of 1988". if your going to violate the law anyway, might as well do it with a real gun that won't kill you first.
 
Trust an American to want to print guns instead of something else less destructive. We got guns! We is badass.
 
Max Mike said:
Now this has devolved it to the silly, you cannot build a gun with out metal.
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To fire a little .22 caliber? There is very little pressure involved, and even if you need springs for a magazine, that can certainly be done without metal too. The transverse leaf springs on my Corvette are composite (aka fancy plastic) and work like a champ after ten years now with no sag.

That said, there are very small crossbows with folding arms that are near perfectly silent and can carry poisoned heads (you can buy seeds to grow your own toxins, will stop someone breathing even if the bolt only hits an arm or leg) on the bolts and can be made without the use of metal.

In fact, pretty funny that Amazon won't sell guns, but they sell a boatload of scoped crossbows that could snipe someone from considerable range with barely a detectable noise:
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n:3395561,p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:4138654011
 
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FragMagnet said:
I was thinking the same thing, after spending thirty years in manufacturing. But then I remembered back in the 80's-90's there were working prototypes of plastic/polymer Indy/F1 engines, and yes the cylinder bores and pistons were made of plastic ! Possibly water cool the barrel from the back side like engine cylinders ? I had seen it originaly in a printed magazine like Hot Rod or Circle Track back then, but this is all I could find in a quick Google search
http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-thi...tti-holtzberg-and-his-composite-engine-block/

Having said that though, the printer would need to achieve higher temps to mould the material, than the material would see in actual use. Unless we end up with a printer that could blend material, ie: adding a resin similar to mixing a 2 part epoxy.

I still think at the end of the day it would be cheaper and easier to conceal an actual working gun in your residence, than having the correct type of printer, printing material, CAD file etc. at ones residence
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Peak pressure on a high output Diesel engine is about 2500 psi. Peak pressure on a modern handgun such as a 9mm, is 35,000 psi. even a .22 short, about the smallest weakest cartridge you can use, is over 20,000 psi. not many plastics can handle those sort of pressures.
 
FragMagnet said:
I was thinking the same thing, after spending thirty years in manufacturing. But then I remembered back in the 80's-90's there were working prototypes of plastic/polymer Indy/F1 engines, and yes the cylinder bores and pistons were made of plastic ! Possibly water cool the barrel from the back side like engine cylinders ? I had seen it originaly in a printed magazine like Hot Rod or Circle Track back then, but this is all I could find in a quick Google search
http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-thi...tti-holtzberg-and-his-composite-engine-block/

Having said that though, the printer would need to achieve higher temps to mould the material, than the material would see in actual use. Unless we end up with a printer that could blend material, ie: adding a resin similar to mixing a 2 part epoxy.

I still think at the end of the day it would be cheaper and easier to conceal an actual working gun in your residence, than having the correct type of printer, printing material, CAD file etc. at ones residence
Click to expand...
Most likely we'll never see printers capable of plastics that can resist that much heat. It just wouldn't be cost effective. If anything, we'll eventually see machines that can make metal objects, by laying down a layer of metal powder and then fusing it. Metal is more cost effective then high temp plastic. Even then, we'll see a number of local facilities just for printing objects long before 3D printers are affordable at home. It would be a huge business boom for places like Staples and local printing centers.

snaggerpuss said:
Trust an American to want to print guns instead of something else less destructive. We got guns! We is badass.
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An American would print a gun and act like he's tuff. Some countries wouldn't. Can easily become a tool for terrorists. You'll more likely see Americans printing out replica swords before they'll care about making guns with them. Especially if we had access to a metal 3D printer. Be afraid of our Sword of Omens and Frostmourne, as the only people here intelligent enough to use this equipment would make products like these!
 
Ashbringer said:
An American would print a gun and act like he's tuff. Some countries wouldn't. Can easily become a tool for terrorists. You'll more likely see Americans printing out replica swords before they'll care about making guns with them. Especially if we had access to a metal 3D printer. Be afraid of our Sword of Omens and Frostmourne, as the only people here intelligent enough to use this equipment would make products like these!
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awesome.

More stereotypes of American gun owners being ignorant thugs.

the "average" gun owner is as intelligent as the average American. considering the % of American who own firearms, that's hardly a surprise, is it?
 
Ashbringer said:
Metal is more cost effective then high temp plastic. Even then, we'll see a number of local facilities just for printing objects long before 3D printers are affordable at home
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Those already exist, they're called machine shops.
 
Aluisious said:
Those already exist, they're called machine shops.
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Machine shops take a cube of metal and drill and cut. With a printer you put down a layer of metal powder. You can't do complex objects with machine shops.
 
Ashbringer said:
Machine shops take a cube of metal and drill and cut. With a printer you put down a layer of metal powder. You can't do complex objects with machine shops.
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Generations of Machinists are going to be heart broken to read this....


Seriously, what do you consider a complex object?

anything more complex than what a CAD/CAM system can do will run into issues with servicing/assembly. some things could certainly benefit from unitary construction for strength, Hydraulic valve bodies and such, but I doubt SLS offers any strength benefits over machined steel at this point.
 
Abs doesn't have nearly the pressure rating required for this especially when were talking about that spool fed junk, Regardless to contain the pressure of even a single 22.lr round being fired the amount of material required would be ludicrous.

Were talking in the neighborhood of on average 20,000 PSI here people to put that in perspective, schedule 40 Abs pipe of high quality can handle right around 250 PSI so the burst pressure will be some where in the neighborhood of 400-500 psi. For those of you who cant do math thats about 40 times less than what would be required for this thing not to put a lot of little holes in you and, obviously it wouldn't have any where near the structure of a pipe of that size.
 
Should this happen it's more likely to result in 3D printers being more regulated (everywhere but in guncrazy countries like Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the USA). Calling this a rights issue is silly and it calls into question the credibility of the people doing it.

It does seem pretty unlikely that this will work with current technology though. There are people working on 3D printers that will work with metal or you could make a pattern for a CNC machine, I could see that as more viable.

P.S. Sandwich construction is already possible, but prohibitively slow and expensive.
 
redmasc said:
I went to siggraph this year for the 3d industry and "rapid prototyping" is the new hottness. The things they're able to print is simply amazing. Although I'm not sure how the plastic would hold up to the hot gas exhaust from a round. Maybe a one time use kinda weapon.
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Its all about the type of plastic used... there are options.
 
DeathPrincess said:
A gunfight on a plane would have probably killed everyone anyway and the plane would have gone down in another part of the city.
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</disagree>

Plane was already underneath altitude that required pressurization

Sure it'd be a little breezy but unless you hit the pilot you're probably gonna be alright if you are a halfway decent shot at that range.
 
jimbean21 said:
</disagree>

Plane was already underneath altitude that required pressurization

Sure it'd be a little breezy but unless you hit the pilot you're probably gonna be alright if you are a halfway decent shot at that range.
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Read the other bit, not talking about pressurization. :p
 
I dont see the point of printing a plastic gun. a single shot .22 even that may or may not blow up in your face. Even if the gun gets past security, how will the ammo ?
 
Ducman69 said:
To fire a little .22 caliber? There is very little pressure involved, and even if you need springs for a magazine, that can certainly be done without metal too. The transverse leaf springs on my Corvette are composite (aka fancy plastic) and work like a champ after ten years now with no sag.

That said, there are very small crossbows with folding arms that are near perfectly silent and can carry poisoned heads (you can buy seeds to grow your own toxins, will stop someone breathing even if the bolt only hits an arm or leg) on the bolts and can be made without the use of metal.

In fact, pretty funny that Amazon won't sell guns, but they sell a boatload of scoped crossbows that could snipe someone from considerable range with barely a detectable noise:
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n:3395561,p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:4138654011
Click to expand...

This is called nonsense, just ignorant of firearms design needs
 
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