config ideas for MythBE/NAS + Myth/XBMC/Boxee FE

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jalyst

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
171
Myth Back-end + NAS (already own the parts; cept 3x 1/1.5TB HDD)
This machine will do all video capturing/transcoding.
It will also be the Backup Server/NAS....

1x Old Lian-Li midi-Tower or Chen Mei FT
1x Gigabyte 8600GTS .................................... [take transcoding load off CPU w/VDPAU or is this def. not doable?]
1x Hauppauge HVR-2200 .................................. [may eventually add a 2nd one]
1x GA-P35-DQ6 (ATX form-factor)
1x TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF ................................. [2x2GB DDR2 1066; 4GB enough?]
1x Core2Duo (conroe) E6420 2.13Ghz ..................... [may underclock/volt slightly?]
1x Antec True Power 3.0 650W ........................... [Less wattage possible?]
Storage Sub-sys:
1x 1TB WD Black ........................................ [video capture disk, can it handle 4 simultaneous HD streams?]
1x 150GB 10k RPM Raptor ................................. [boot/system volume?]
3x 1/1.5TB 7.2k RPM HDD ....................... [For content storage & BU, may not bother w/RAID till get hw controller?]

********************************************
Myth/XBMC Front-end (don't have the parts; cept where mentioned)
This will be the media player & MAME PC...
Later (6mth) I'll buy a top-end GPU that'll be swapped-in sometimes for gaming.

1x mATX H57 or Q57 mobo. ......... [make/model?]
1x Intel Core i3 530
2x DDR3 1GB ...................... [make/model?]
1x 30GB SSD or USB Flash? (already own; 4GB) + 74GB 10k RPM Raptor? (already own, for local storage)
OR
1x 1TB WD Black or Samsung F3? [innermost sectors -20GB?- for OS, outermost for local storage]
1x Xonar Essence ST (already own, PCI)
1x H6 (already own, Essence daughterboard)
1x PSU ................................ [perhaps BE PSU is best here if I intend to use strong GPU sometimes; make/model?]
1x Case ............................... [make/model?]
1x nV GT220 ....................... [only if IGP+CPU not enough; make/model?]

For the back-end I was thinking of doing a minimal Ubuntu install & only adding what is needed.
For the front-end I was thinking of starting the same way and gradually adding MythTVFE, XBMC, and maybe a lightweight DE like crunchbang etc.
Interested in peoples thoughts on what I'm missing hardware or software wise or just some general advice.
Thanks!
________
discarded:
1x 74GB 10k RPM Raptor .................................. [very old -not used much- slightly damaged connector so connection always a bit loose]
1x 4GB USB flash for OS ................................ [apparently USB flash unreliable when lots of writes involved?]
1x 80GB? make/model YTBD
 
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The back-end looks good. For the front-end I suggest either getting a motherboard with an onboard nVidia GPU or getting a discrete nVidia GPU. The reason for that is nVidia cards are the only current cards that can hardware-accelerate video on Linux. It's called VDPAU. The newest version of XBMC and MythTV both support it, and it will help a lot for HD content.
Also, unless you plan on storing media on the front-end, you can get rid of the HDD and just use an SSD, which would allow for a quieter and more energy efficient HTPC.

I advise you to take a look at Arch Linux. It is a very minimal, customizeable distro that allows you to install exactly what you want, and the packages are more up-to-date than Ubuntu. I am not sure about MythTV or Boxee, but I know for a fact you can use XBMC as a window manager, therefore negating the need for any other DE/WM. If the other 2 need a window manager, checkout Openbox. It is very lightweight and is what Crunchbang uses. No point in an entire DE when you will be running those apps fullscreen.

Hope that helps. I have a medium amount of experience with Linux HTPCs, so feel free to ask if you have anymore questions, and I will try my best to answer.
 
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I'm well aware of VDPAU, but there's also hw acceleration for Intel CPU/GPU's, last I check it was improving significantly.
I can't recall its name, do you remember?
The idea is to get by with the IGP+CPU, if it's still too anaemic after a few weeks then I'd add a discrete GT210.
LT I'd also buy a much stronger discrete that'd be swapped in sometimes for gaming.

I was thinking of ditching SSD on the FE and just buying one of the fastest 1TB 7.2k drives like the Black or F3.
I'd partition the inner section of the drive (say 20GB?) for the OS and leaving the remainder for local storage.
Either that or use my pre-existing (old) 74GB 10k RPM Raptor as the boot drive and buy a 2nd 1TB local storage drive.
I'm just not sure how much slower the single drive option would be versus the two separate drives, if it all.
SSD's are just too damn pricey, if i could find a 30gb one (or less) for the same price as a 1TB black or F3 then I'd prolly get it.

I think Boxee & MythFE are very much the same as XBMC in that they don't need a WM etc,
I just like the idea of still having a minimal DE, but I may yet find I'm quite happy without one.
I will have a closer look at Arch, thanks, what do you mean by the packages are more up-to-date?
 
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Intel's API for hardware acceleration is called VA-API, but I don't believe it is currently implemented in any of the 3 applications at which you are looking. If you want to wait a while, I'm sure it will be implemented eventually, but if you want hardware acceleration right now, I believe VDPAU is the only way.

If you need storage on the FE, then go for the 1TB HDD, but if you want low noise/power, go for either an SSD if you have the money or a laptop HDD.

What I mean by Arch is more up-to-date is that when a new package comes out, it is usually in the Arch repos before Ubuntu adds it to their repos. Arch usually has the current release of a package in it's repos whereas Ubuntu usually has a little bit older releases.

I personally prefer separating the BE and FE because I don't like seeing a large computer under my TV, but if you have a way of hiding it or don't care if you see it, an AIO would be a cheaper solution. If you want to build a cheaper FE and don't mind not getting the latest and greatest computer, an AMD-based solution with an nVidia 8200/8300-based motherboard could be built for less than your proposed FE. If you plan on gaming/upgrading the machine, that might not be the best option.
 
I think I'm going with an AIO, but with the FE I outlined as the platform base.

So that means I'll sell most of the parts outlined for my proposed back-end.
This will give me a little cash towards the new build, whilst allowing me to move to the newer/sexier Intel platform :)

It'd be cheaper to go with the BE as the base for an AIO (& it'd be plenty of horsepower), but I prefer this approach.
I'll outline the new machine I have in mind soon....

As figrin mentioned Core i3-xxx VA-API support for acceleration is getting there, but still pretty rough.
If I find it's not good enough after a few months, then I can always chuck in a GT220 to be used w/VDPAU.

I do have plans later this year to build a Core i7-based native VMM (baremetal hypervisor).
So this could become the BE & "jack of all" server, and the AIO could revert to a FE/occasional gaming machine.

In the meantime I'll have my XBOX360 & soon a PS3 which can be used as FE's of sorts.
PS3 in particular, now that it's "apparently" been fully hacked...

Thanks for your thoughts thus far, any further ideas greatly appreciated!
 
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Here is the rough outline I have in mind...
Underlined = I've decided on the part, bold = I own it.

1x Intel Core i3-530
1x mATX H57 or Q57 mobo?
2x 2GB DDR3?
1x Asus Xonar Essence ST (PCI)
1x Asus H6 (Essence daughterboard)
1x Hauppauge HVR-2200
1x Antec True Power 3.0 650W
Storage Sub-sys:
1x 1TB WD Black ..............................[capture disk, can it handle 4 simultaneous HD streams?]
3x 1/1.5TB 7.2k HDD? .........................[For content storage & BU, may not bother w/RAID]
_________
Low priority (won't buy this time round, but suggestions welcome)
*************
1x 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD? ................... [approx $219]
1x nV GT220? .................................... [only if IGP+CPU proves to be not enough]
1x HTPC Case? ................................... [Have crappy old Lian-Li (PC-60?) mid-tower]

Make/model recommendations greatly appreciated!
 
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Okay mobo decisions...
I already checked the big three (Asus/Gbyte/MSI) & this is the best I got so far:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products...sonSheet.aspx?ProductID=3309,3308,3307&Page=1
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=LZtx6p7WKTP77rsk&templete=2
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=CadI5xNLwMYopFyJ&templete=2
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=XSm0g8qR5qb7UN30&templete=2
mATX MSI: no USB3 or SATA6G, but 2 PCI 16x, 1 PCI 1x, & 1 PCI, which is a nice balance IMO.
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodmbspec&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=170&cat3_no=&prod_no=1975

Only one of these 7 mobo's has SATA6G and USB3, and it's ATX, such a downer.
I guess it gets trickier to implement at mATX....

I'm now going check:
ECS, Foxconn, Shuttle, Albatron, DFI, eVGA, Soltek (they're extinct?)

I'm done after that....
If it doesn't turn-up a mATX w/SATA6G & USB3 then I'll just go for the ATX Asus board.
Way bigger than my orginal intentions of a mini-ITX...
 
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jalyst said:
Only one of these 7 mobo's has SATA6G and USB3, and it's ATX, such a downer.
I guess it gets trickier to implement at mATX....
Click to expand...
mATX just isn't a priority for the usual suspects - I asked another forum member who works for MSI. At least DFI and a few others do make SFF a priority. I notice even Intel don't have a reference H57 mATX yet, though it is coming: DH57DD, along with mini-ITX DH57JG

There is a Maximus III Extreme mobo listed on Asus global website, it's not available, but perhaps it's an indication that the whole range is being refreshed with SATA 6Gb/s & USB 3.0. I imgaine there will be a glut of new boards announced at CeBit in March.

As for your system: PC-A05NB (and similar iterations) from Lian Li are quite neat ATX cases, same height and width as traditional mATX mini towers, but deeper to accommodate ATX components. That might be a good mate for the P7H57D-V EVO. That board is too expensive though, and for your planned use mATX makes much more sense. I'd say suck it up and go with one of the cheaper mATX USB 3.0 boards for now.
 
DFI have hardly anything for 1156, only these two LanParty's : DK P55-T3eH9 MI P55-T36.
One's ATX & the other mITX, neither are P5x or Q5x, & neither have stand-out features like USB3 or SATA6G etc.

Just Albatron, eVGA, & Intel to check and then I'm done...

There's a good chance features like USB3 & SATA6G won't both be available for mobo's based on these mainstream chipsets till the latter half of 2010.
Or perhaps even next year when Intel finally makes it part of their core logic?

In the meantime if one really needs/wants such features, I guess one will have to buy higher-end P55 & X58 mobo's :(
I hope you're right about us possibly seeing stuff after March, perhaps I can just sell my relatively new board then.
 
jalyst said:
DFI have hardly anything for 1156, only these two LanParty's
Click to expand...
sorry my DFI comment wasn't clear enough - they nnounced they are not going to design ATX components any more, instead focusing on high performance SFF. The P55-T36 looks like the first of the new strategy.
 
Where's this Maximus III Extreme mobo you were talking about?
I can't find it anywhere on the Global site, does it meet my requirements?
Aren't they normally an enthusiast line of mobo, hence P5x Intel chipset?

I think you're right...
I'll prolly go with one of the mATX's that has USB3 only (alas haven't found any with SATA6G only)
I can always sell it in a few months...

Thanks for the suggestion of case, nice idea if I go ATX, but I'll prolly go mATX.
I don't think I'll bother with case at all till later in the year, I have an old one I can use.
 
jalyst said:
Where's this Maximus III Extreme mobo you were talking about?
Click to expand...
It's under the P55 boards: http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=0JWHwAqPs2cnormm

jalyst said:
does it meet my requirements?
Click to expand...
Not really, it's ATX, P55 and likely to be hideously expensive as it includes NF200. I just mentioned it as it looks like the LGA 1156 range is being completely refreshed from top to bottom.

jalyst said:
Aren't they normally an enthusiast line of mobo, hence P5x Intel chipset?
Click to expand...
Yep, and the X58 version is the Rampage III Extreme. USB 3.0 and SATA 6gb/s all round, which is why I'm hoping new GENE versions will appear as well. Maybe Asus will follow DFI and try a high performance mini-ITX as well
 
Yeah I reckon they'll keep USB3 + SATA6G to their P5x and X5x enthusiast lines for as long as they can.
Which will be until it becomes standard in the Intel core logic, sigh....
 
Oh well no biggy...

I'm pretty sure the best (Indilinx-based) 32GB SSD's from OCZ and similar sit just under SATA2's real limits.
(need to double-check)

And I have no need for the even faster options out there, and coming...
Even if I do want to migrate to a faster SSD, as mentioned I can always sell/upgrade.
 
jalyst said:
Yeah I reckon they'll keep USB3 + SATA6G to their P5x and X5x enthusiast lines for as long as they can.
Click to expand...
Not so! All the P7P55D-E line are equipped with the controllers, and the P7P55D-E LX, P7P55D-E (no suffix) are the cheap ATX boards with these features i.e. $150 / £95-£100.

Of course these are P55, and you want H55/H57 for the integrated graphics CPU. It would be very surprising if there aren't soon similar variations on the P7H57D-V EVO and that's too much of a luxury board for the low cost buyers of i3/i5.
 
So even the lowest end p55 mobo's from Asus have both usb3 and sata6g?
Are they all ATX? (if there's a mATX one I might get it and a GT220!)

Perhaps the fact that H5x/Q5x mobo's tend to be mATX is slowing them down?
It gets a lot trickier with less real estate....
 
jalyst said:
Are they all ATX?
Click to expand...
I think so, of the announced and available boards, but it's really hard to keep track of it all

jalyst said:
Perhaps the fact that H5x/Q5x mobo's tend to be mATX is slowing them down?
It gets a lot trickier with less real estate....
Click to expand...
Size is a non issue, mATX is plenty big enough for all the features. Just look at the X58 GENE and similar. The real problem is mATX is apparently not a big enough market for the top tier manufacturers to make it their first priority - new ATX products will be delivered before mATX and mITX.
 
jalyst said:
So even the lowest end p55 mobo's from Asus have both usb3 and sata6g?
Are they all ATX? (if there's a mATX one I might get it and a GT220!)
Click to expand...

I didn't check whether most of Asus's P55's had USB3 + SATA6G.
But I did scan all 20-odd (way more than the other chipsets combined) for mATX mobo's.
I only spotted two, and both didn't have SATA6G OR USB3.

So going the P55 + GT220 route is out... :|
 
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IanM said:
Size is a non issue, mATX is plenty big enough for all the features. Just look at the X58 GENE and similar. The real problem is mATX is apparently not a big enough market for the top tier manufacturers to make it their first priority - new ATX products will be delivered before mATX and mITX.
Click to expand...

Judging by the small no. of mATX's that make up their P55 line, I'd say market demand is a big factor.
But I wouldn't discount higher costs assoc. w/engineering as one too...
 
Alas there's no Q5x/H5x mATX mobo's with SATA6G & USB3.
So it comes down to these three:

GA-H57M-USB3 $174.0 [may be able to get for this price]
P7H55D-M EVO $179.3 [definitely can get for this price]
P7H57D-V EVO $292.6 [definitely can get for this price]

The last is ATX....
It does have SATA6G & USB3 but is substantially more than the other two.

I've realised that SATAII's "real world" limit is about 300MB/s anyway.
I'm not aware of any 30-40GB SSD's that could reach that limit, even at sustained read speeds.
So it's no big loss, when S6G does filter-down to H5x mATX boards, I can always sell & upgrade.

I'm leaving SSD's for now, there's so much happening in the next 6mth, there'll be far better options later.
And there's the fact that I don't hugely benefit from SSD for the intended application.

So these are my finalist parts:
*********************************
approx $154 1x Intel Core i3-530
approx $179 1x GA-H57M-USB3 or P7H55D-M EVO
approx $145 2x 2GB G.Skill DDR3 1600Mhz (PC-12800)
Storage Sub-sys:
approx $312 3x 1TB Samsung F3? ........................... [content storage & BU, may not bother w/RAID]
__________
Total = $790
-----------------

Would you slot something different in? Can I get some thoughts please!
N.B. I updated my earlier post which outlines all my parts.
 
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DotCapone/Ian/Anyone can I get some thoughts on this please?


Thank-you!!!
 
jalyst said:
DotCapone/Ian/Anyone can I get some thoughts on this please?


Thank-you!!!
Click to expand...

A bit impatient aren't we?

Anyway since you are using Linux, the parts you chose will be fine. Mobo wise, just go with the company you've had the best experience with.
 
So you more-or-less agree with that entire selection?

Isn't the RAM overkill?
Is there more modest 4GB DDR3 I could be using?
How about the F3's as the storage array?
etc, etc... Thanks!
 
jalyst said:
So you more-or-less agree with that entire selection?

Isn't the RAM overkill?
Is there more modest 4GB DDR3 I could be using?
How about the F3's as the storage array?
etc, etc... Thanks!
Click to expand...

Not keeping track of Aussie prices so can't say "more-or-less" agree with the entire selection. Then again, according to this thread, an ATI option would not work.

RAM wise, tad overkill yes. If you can find a cheap set of DDR 1333 RAM or even DDR3 1066 RAM, go for it. Don't worry about timings at all. RAM timings don't really matter.

As for the Samsung F3 drives, they're good and fast storage drives.
 
jalyst said:
GA-H57M-USB3 $174.0 [may be able to get for this price]
P7H55D-M EVO $179.3 [definitely can get for this price]
Click to expand...
I like the Asus, but if you want RAID it has to be the H57 chipset Gigabyte (or a separate expansion card)

jalyst said:
Isn't the RAM overkill?
Click to expand...
Maybe, but the prices of 4GB seem to be quite similar regardless of spec. If you can actually get it It'd use G.Skill ECO 1.35V to keep the temps and fan noise down. There is some OCZ Obsidian 1.35V that may be cheaper than the G.Skill

jalyst said:
How about the F3's as the storage array?
Click to expand...
I'd prefer WD Caviar Green for lowest noise possible
 
Why do you like the Asus?
Interesting suggestions re RAM, I will look more closely at that, thanks.

I find that even the nosiest modern HDD's don't bug me in the least...
If noise and their much vaunted power savings are the only reasons to get them over the F3 I think I'll pass.

Thanks again.
 
jalyst said:
Why do you like the Asus?
Click to expand...
I guess my reasons for liking it are probably irrelevant to your system, but anyway: expansion slot layout is very useful - with a double slot graphics card the upper PCIe is still free and can be used without restricting the airflow into the graphics card. I feel it's time to abandon PCI, the Gigabyte feels like a waste with 2 PCI.
 
Yeah I would prefer the GB to have no more than 1 PCI (ala the Asus board)...
But a big loss for the Asus board -as I see it- is that there's only one PCIe slot greater than 1x.

There are adapters to convert PCI slots to PCIe 1x if I'm in dire need of an extra PCIe 1x on the GB board.
But I can't "bump-up" one of the PCIe 1x slots on the Asus board to 4x....
 
jalyst said:
Yeah I would prefer the GB to have no more than 1 PCI (ala the Asus board)...

There are adapters to convert PCI slots to PCIe 1x if I'm in dire need of an extra PCIe 1x on the GB board.
But I can't "bump-up" one of the PCIe 1x slots on the Asus board to 4x....
Click to expand...
Why do you prefer only one PCI slot?

Why would you need to bump up the PCI-E x1 slot to a x4 in the first place?
 
1) Because I'd prefer one extra PCIe...

2) There are devices/scenarios in which one typically needs more than just 1x. (500MB/s)
 
?

Yeah I would prefer the GB to have no more than 1 PCI (ala the Asus board)...
But a big loss for the Asus board -as I see it- is that there's only one PCIe slot greater than 1x.

There are adapters to convert PCI slots to PCIe 1x if I'm in dire need of an extra PCIe 1x on the GB board.
But I can't "bump-up" one of the PCIe 1x slots on the Asus board to 4x....

Will start a build log soon, probably not on this forum but will link to it here...
 
Hmm no one around any more.
Pointless linking to my progress in an Aussie thread/forum.
Removing from my threads to follow-up.
Thanks all for your thoughts!

All the best.
 
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