HardOCP News
[H] News
- Joined
- Dec 31, 1969
- Messages
- 0
I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here but someone seriously has their head up an asteroid if they think this will be possible or profitable.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Company Aims To Strike It Rich By Mining Asteroids
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Skripka
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 10,791
For a minute, I thought Newt Gingrich and his moonbase were to be involved...
NickJames
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2009
- Messages
- 6,698
It's all fun and games until someone blows up your shit and steals all your ISK.
spintroniX
Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2009
- Messages
- 974
It's still decades (if not more) away from being a viable business model, but it is the future.
The fundamental flaw in our way of life is that you cannot have perpetual growth in a system of finite resources. Either you have to redefine economic growth, and make more people happy with less, or find a way to acquire more resources.
The fundamental flaw in our way of life is that you cannot have perpetual growth in a system of finite resources. Either you have to redefine economic growth, and make more people happy with less, or find a way to acquire more resources.
awsiemieniec
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2004
- Messages
- 810
It's too bad NASA has a bad rap. They're good people and they do/did great things but yeah, agree with you on the over-budget comments.
If all they're looking for are 60g of 'material', I don't see the cost:benefit paying out. I would like to see a NASA/private sector relationship that helps forward the space exploration effort yet keeps costs in the "sane" realm. When you're talking 'space', I know it's expensive, but does it really need to cost $1B?
If all they're looking for are 60g of 'material', I don't see the cost:benefit paying out. I would like to see a NASA/private sector relationship that helps forward the space exploration effort yet keeps costs in the "sane" realm. When you're talking 'space', I know it's expensive, but does it really need to cost $1B?
awsiemieniec
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2004
- Messages
- 810
... plus didn't they all see Armageddon? Landing on an asteroid is bad news! 
It does sound like something hardly possible but there are too many details involved that were not disclosed in this article that might make it more plausible. Sometimes things seem more expensive and complicated than they really are.
There are also some serious people involved. As a long-term project, I don't see why not. It's just interesing that they say they'll make money quickly as it seems that such venture would actually take a while to take off and start bringing profits.
Also, given that 10%*1500=150 close-proximity asteroids, I wonder if the amount of valuable resources would actually be that much. Does anyone know how many grams of gold and platinum could be in a 50m-diameter asteroid? I'm too lazy to search
There are also some serious people involved. As a long-term project, I don't see why not. It's just interesing that they say they'll make money quickly as it seems that such venture would actually take a while to take off and start bringing profits.
Also, given that 10%*1500=150 close-proximity asteroids, I wonder if the amount of valuable resources would actually be that much. Does anyone know how many grams of gold and platinum could be in a 50m-diameter asteroid? I'm too lazy to search
Skripka
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 10,791
Simply lifting anything even into low earth orbit is insanely expensive, doesn't matter if you're ESA, NASA, or a private contractor.
I think they should pour their resources into space elevator tech first. Once we have an operating space elevator and don't waste billions and billions of dollars just exiting and re-entering atmosphere, suddenly things like this become much more profitable.
That's why chemical rockets must be replaced, they are totally impractical to a true space faring race. Space travel and exploration has nothing to NASA or the ESA. Space travel will be made possible by places like CERN doing physics research. The hilarious thing is that NASA and ESA contribute absolutely nothing to CERN or physics research. Clueless early 21st century space programs going in the completely wrong direction.
Seraphical
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2006
- Messages
- 351
Some days I have doubts about this as well. Ever wonder what'd happen when that 20,000+ mile long cable loses it's anchor to the Earth? Even worse... the counterweight in geosynchronous orbit?
We are human after all... even the best engineers make mistakes...
All true, and on top of it all it might not even work because the concept requires plenty of things that, although theoretically possible for us to make, we haven't actually figured out a way to mass produce yet (carbon nanotubes for one). But if possible, this concept seems like the best starting point for us to get to other planets, asteroids, etc without spending a fortune. And even after we (hopefully) develop more spacecraft capable of atmosspheric exit and re-entry sci-fi style, the platforms will still be useful for other purposes like "dry-dock" repair.
Would have loved to have seen what Gerald Bull could have pulled off had he had legitimate funding and support from a western democracy. Oh well...
lilbabycat
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 3,810
I was assumed that these asteroids might have exotic materials that we have never seen before in mass quantities, and therefore would be "invaluable" if recovered in some reasonable fashion. Surely there are some leftover debris from long long ago in a galaxy far far away.....
I don't think that it is that far fetched of an idea for a not so distant future really.
What they need right now is an effective and reusable way to lift things to orbit. With that set up they can work on towing the asteroid back here to earth or the moon. With the asteroids already passing close by earth just change the orbit of one a bit and let earth or the moon capture it naturally. The new ion engines and other tech could help this happen while using far less fuel when something comes along.
Mine the materials in orbit and drop them down to earth for collection and refining, or refine them in orbit and put them on craft taking people from orbit to earth.
However they do it, it will be expensive to start but the far reaching benefits to resources, space travel, technology, communication, building materials, science and other fields make it very worth it.
What they need right now is an effective and reusable way to lift things to orbit. With that set up they can work on towing the asteroid back here to earth or the moon. With the asteroids already passing close by earth just change the orbit of one a bit and let earth or the moon capture it naturally. The new ion engines and other tech could help this happen while using far less fuel when something comes along.
Mine the materials in orbit and drop them down to earth for collection and refining, or refine them in orbit and put them on craft taking people from orbit to earth.
However they do it, it will be expensive to start but the far reaching benefits to resources, space travel, technology, communication, building materials, science and other fields make it very worth it.
Skripka
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 10,791
Yea well chemical rockets are all we have for the foreseeable future...until the Prothean archive is found on Mars and Charon is discovered to be an inactive mass relay.
Until we figure out fusion to drive a derivation of an ion engine to high power I seriously doubt we'll be able to economically harvest resources from asteroids. I'd love to see these guys try though. Once we can get at them, asteroids would provide a nearly limitless supply of valuable and useful elements.
Parmenides
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 6,578
Heh, and then Shepard can probe uranus a little better.
Actually I think a Scramjet / rocket hybrid of sorts could be very doable without requiring an enormous amount of fuel just to break through the greatest portion earth's gravitational pull. A Scramjet itself should be almost enough to get into orbit. After that, it's smoother sailing as far as fuel consumption goes.
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
All the platinum ever mined since the beginning of time can fit in the average living room. This would be a big deal to say the least.
Still, you'd think we'd be mining Helium 3 from the moon first. We already know where the moon is, which should shave off some time.
Still, you'd think we'd be mining Helium 3 from the moon first. We already know where the moon is, which should shave off some time.
Outamyhead
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2008
- Messages
- 4,263
Way too much risk, and too costly for the benfits.
I saw a documentary on a satellite that was sent to scan an asteroid, they were able to get it into an orbit of the rock, but they spent a day figuring out how they could land the satellite on the asteroid because not only was it moving at a fair rate of speed, it was rotating and spinning in a very erratic manner, so yeah sending people up to land on something that could just get everyone killed on the landing isn't a great idea.
Then there is the small factor of not having anything nearly as effective as the shuttle anymore, so getting all that equipment up there will require a few trips.
I saw a documentary on a satellite that was sent to scan an asteroid, they were able to get it into an orbit of the rock, but they spent a day figuring out how they could land the satellite on the asteroid because not only was it moving at a fair rate of speed, it was rotating and spinning in a very erratic manner, so yeah sending people up to land on something that could just get everyone killed on the landing isn't a great idea.
Then there is the small factor of not having anything nearly as effective as the shuttle anymore, so getting all that equipment up there will require a few trips.
If you can't go to the asteroid, bring the asteroid to you.
Imagine if there was a propulsion system power enough to alter the trajectory of an asteroid and make it safely orbit the Earth. Once in orbit, the mining is relatively safe.
Hot Damn, I'm a genious!
Imagine if there was a propulsion system power enough to alter the trajectory of an asteroid and make it safely orbit the Earth. Once in orbit, the mining is relatively safe.
Hot Damn, I'm a genious!
LastQuestion
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2011
- Messages
- 454
I know right. They're going to get out and then someone will can flip them. The plus side of this is that there will be tears, oh so derircious tears.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 16,039
So assume they hit the 'mother lode" then what? They try to dump their precious metal on the market, and the price plummets because they increased the available amount by a significant amount. Or they sit on the metal so as not to flood the market then they don't make much money meanwhile the investors and interest keep saying "where's my money!"
IMO, this is a bad idea. Why would you think there'd be a significant amount of platinum and gold in these asteroids anyways? Most of the metallic content is going to be iron, even if you take into account differentiation effects that allow you to dig deep into the asteroid what makes you think there'd be a much higher concentration in asteroids then on Earth? Have their been meteoroids found that shout out and say "Hey 1% of this is platinum" or some obscenely high number?
Also how the hell would you mine it, robo-miners? Bravo if you could pull that off, but considering we don't use them here... can't exactly land people on it as these NEOs might send them on trajectories into unfavorable parts of the solar system for a rather long time. And if they want to just capture and "park" one in orbit around the Earth? Yeah fuck them and the horse they road in on, like I'd trust any company who's sole motivation is to make a fortune to be safe about what they're doing, fuck just look at history in California's gold rush period if you want to see how people don't give a shit about anything as long as they can get their gold
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
I dont think they would care about crashing the price of platinum. Its an industrial metal more than a hoarder metal. The company would have access to a vast quantity of the material presumably the equivalent of several years worth of global output. There is no vast surplus of platinum out there right now, every year industry pretty much breaks even. In other words we don't even have a year's supply already out of the ground in a refined state at the moment. The stuff takes half a year to refine once out of the ground.
As it stands right now most of the platinum mined in south Africa (~ 80% of the world's output) is already spoken for by industry before it leaves the ground, before the opportunity for investors to buy in comes along.
So ignoring price consequences, industry would be able to expand their uses exponentially.
It would suck if they crashed the price though, I buy the stuff.
If it was somehow cheap, it would make a lot of people happy as we'd all be driving proton-exchange membrane fuel cell based cars.
The platinum and gold that exist on earth originally came from asteroids and supernovas, so I'm assuming someone believes the concentration to be rich in these asteroids, at least potentially.
Because many asteroids have shown to have a large amounts of heavy metals. Or the fact that most of our heavy metals actually come from ancient impact sites. Or the fact that occasionally a small one falls to earth and we can see what it's made of. Some of them have high concentrations of all kinds of useful stuff. Gold, platinum, iron, etc.
MavericK
Zero Cool
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 31,965
I can easily see that plan going apocalyptically wrong.
The percentages as a whole of heavy metals could be similar to Earth, however the Earth is large and most of the heavy metals have sunk miles (like to the core sunk) when the Earth was molten. The only bits we can mine are tiny scraps that volcanoes etc had ejected to the surface or that asteroids have delivered from space.
We can't dig holes to the molten core of the Earth, but we could possibly process entire asteroids. Or if we're talking larger asteroids they may have some differentiation (heavy stuff fell to the middle) and you could process that.because it's still not that deep.
Think I'll read up on it some more..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
We can't dig holes to the molten core of the Earth, but we could possibly process entire asteroids. Or if we're talking larger asteroids they may have some differentiation (heavy stuff fell to the middle) and you could process that.because it's still not that deep.
Think I'll read up on it some more..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
Interesting read, still waiting for the press conference:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/b...to-mine-asteroids-and-i-think-they-can-do-it/
"I asked Lewicki specifically about how this will make money. Some asteroids may be rich in precious metals — some may hold tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars in platinum-group metals — but it will cost billions and take many years, most likely, to mine them before any samples can be returned."
...
"I have to admit, Lewicki’s answer surprised me. “The investors aren’t making decisions based on a business plan or a return on investment,” he told me. “They’re basing their decisions on our vision.”"
So their answer to the question of "How will this make money?" is "It probably won't."
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/b...to-mine-asteroids-and-i-think-they-can-do-it/
"I asked Lewicki specifically about how this will make money. Some asteroids may be rich in precious metals — some may hold tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars in platinum-group metals — but it will cost billions and take many years, most likely, to mine them before any samples can be returned."
...
"I have to admit, Lewicki’s answer surprised me. “The investors aren’t making decisions based on a business plan or a return on investment,” he told me. “They’re basing their decisions on our vision.”"
So their answer to the question of "How will this make money?" is "It probably won't."
lilbabycat
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 3,810
See done did there.
i lold irl
Don't spoil the fun of people who hate government and believe the "free market" can reinvent physics.
...so by the time you spend a trillion dollars getting to your asteroids and back, you end up with platinum that costs 1/10th as much. There's that supply side of things.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 16,039
Not that I particularly true the validity behind this statement but...
So nice to know that if we ever really need anything it's up there in outer space... that said, I'm sure I'd ruffle the feathers of the ultra-capitalists here if I even suggest mining for the betterment of humanity over profit.
Godmachine
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2003
- Messages
- 10,472
Not really ,its a matter of having the right plans , the right people and trial and error.
The amount of possible profit from this venture is just so huge its hard to imagine. If Space X can ferry up Astronauts to the ISS with ease then it will pioneer this industry.
The biggest cost in this entire venture is transportation both to and coming back with the mined load. Of course there are creative ways to approach that as well.
You and Steve should just lock yourselves in your rooms and don't come out. Ever.
Moving forward in invative thinking and technology is not for pussies so don't bother applying.