Cities protesting 5g

honegod

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Our bodies are not meant to be

I presume you casually include MY body in your summation.

As I am sole soverign over what MY body is meant to accomplish, I admit to a mild curiousity regarding the identity of your proposed supercessional dictator of my bodily functions ?
 

tangoseal

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I presume you casually include MY body in your summation.

As I am sole soverign over what MY body is meant to accomplish, I admit to a mild curiousity regarding the identity of your proposed supercessional dictator of my bodily functions ?

Yeah unless your made of otherworldly material your gonna get cancer beamed like the rest of us.

Laugh all you want. Hahah I am.

Dont worry about me, I'm not a tyrant. Have your 5g, and you will. I'm not asking to ban it by law, I'm asking people to research it, then it will naturally be rejected once people see the harm.

Oh well ... one time even Doctors pushed cigarettes as being safe.
 

Meeho

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You need to do your own research and stop patronizing others to do it for you. When you hear this much flak about the dangers of the tech does it not drive you to want to find out?

You're your own enemy in this regard. I'm not going to entertain you by doing all the work. I did mine. I wrote papers at the university that even got faculty alarmed and researching the dangers and my colleague, a geneticist, agrees there is a preponderance of evidence in its dangers.

You've been warned. Dont cry to me down the road when your 5 year old gets leukemia or a nasty sarcoma.

Our bodies are not meant to be pounded on constantly by high energy high frequency radiation.
Yet you people are BEGGING for it.
You have already been talking on your mobile without handsfree too much, haven't you?
 

MMitch

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You need to do your own research and stop patronizing others to do it for you. When you hear this much flak about the dangers of the tech does it not drive you to want to find out?

You're your own enemy in this regard. I'm not going to entertain you by doing all the work. I did mine. I wrote papers at the university that even got faculty alarmed and researching the dangers and my colleague, a geneticist, agrees there is a preponderance of evidence in its dangers.

You've been warned. Dont cry to me down the road when your 5 year old gets leukemia or a nasty sarcoma.

Our bodies are not meant to be pounded on constantly by high energy high frequency radiation.
Yet you people are BEGGING for it.

I guess I deserved this harsh reply about me patronizing, sorry about that. I simply pointed out that your actual reply was very light on details or proof and let's be honest here, you're the one that originally tried to change my opinion so I would say you should back your claims at least a little more... but it's ok, you can also ask me to do my own research and tell me to basically go pound sand. I want to agree with you but it's not with what you linked that I'll and the fact that I work in that field makes me someone with a BIAS and I understand that.

Anyway, if you don't want to link anything with more info I guess we can stop this back and forth here and say that I've been warned :)
 
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tangoseal

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I guess I deserved this harsh reply about me patronizing, sorry about that. I simply pointed out that your actual reply was very light on details or proof and let's be honest here, you're the one that originally tried to change my opinion so I would say you should back your claims at least a little more... but it's ok, you can also ask me to do my own research and tell me to basically go pound sand. I want to agree with you but it's not with what you linked that I'll and the fact that I work in that field makes me someone with a BIAS and I understand that.

Anyway, if you don't want to link anything with more info I guess we can stop this back and forth here and say that I've been warned :)

Well I didnt mean to sound so harsh. But a great many people are so quick to blindly support something because it sounds good, or looks good, or feels good to their initial senses. 5g is blistering fast for mobile applications - that sounds really good and of course easy to accept, but we must regard the speed at which our societies tech is developing. Back when new tech was released decades ago it was harder to accept because it was far few and in between that something really big was released and it was well researched and implemented with regard to the natural skepticism of people. However, in the contemporary we are establishing new tech at an alarming and unprecedented rate with little to no oversight of the appropriate studies or regulatory authorities. 5g is one of those techs that, given its frequency range, power levels, and high energy wavelength, it certainly poses a much higher risk to our biological function and integrity.

The earth shields us from cosmic microwave radiation and we literally reform entire nations to ensure that we do not interrupt our planets atmosphere with carbon abatement, pollution controls, etc... yet when millimeter wave high energy radio transmissions that pose a threat to our biological function promises faster internet for all, we turn a hypocritical blind eye to all safety concerns with technology. One of the wavelengths that the magnetosphere protects us from just so happens to be one that we are more than willing to pump our cities full of from corner to corner in the pursuit of "feeling happy with faster internet".

It isnt the actual phones that pose a threat per se. It is the big point to point links and towers that are going to pose the risk. Those things are going to be blasting out high wattage microwave RF to ensure coverage. Look at a recent article where VZW couldn't even fill a stadium with reliable 5g. Well the only recourse is to install more antennas everywhere or massively elevate the transmission power levels to cover the stadium. Imagine when your city is blanketed in 25ghz microwave transmissions.

Hell federal law limits microwave ovens to 2.4ghz frequency at no more than 5mw/cm^2 (yes I had to google that because I couldnt remember the exact data). You can cook a damn steak with that kind of energy. Imagine a 25ghz much higher energy carrying frequency, at 100's of watts from the towers from every angle in your city.

See what I mean... there are so many lemmings out there that are blindly defending this tech with little to zero understanding of how RF works and how it interrupts our bodies chemical and physical energy processes.
 

MMitch

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Well I didnt mean to sound so harsh. But a great many people are so quick to blindly support something because it sounds good, or looks good, or feels good to their initial senses. 5g is blistering fast for mobile applications - that sounds really good and of course easy to accept, but we must regard the speed at which our societies tech is developing. Back when new tech was released decades ago it was harder to accept because it was far few and in between that something really big was released and it was well researched and implemented with regard to the natural skepticism of people. However, in the contemporary we are establishing new tech at an alarming and unprecedented rate with little to no oversight of the appropriate studies or regulatory authorities. 5g is one of those techs that, given its frequency range, power levels, and high energy wavelength, it certainly poses a much higher risk to our biological function and integrity.

The earth shields us from cosmic microwave radiation and we literally reform entire nations to ensure that we do not interrupt our planets atmosphere with carbon abatement, pollution controls, etc... yet when millimeter wave high energy radio transmissions that pose a threat to our biological function promises faster internet for all, we turn a hypocritical blind eye to all safety concerns with technology. One of the wavelengths that the magnetosphere protects us from just so happens to be one that we are more than willing to pump our cities full of from corner to corner in the pursuit of "feeling happy with faster internet".

It isnt the actual phones that pose a threat per se. It is the big point to point links and towers that are going to pose the risk. Those things are going to be blasting out high wattage microwave RF to ensure coverage. Look at a recent article where VZW couldn't even fill a stadium with reliable 5g. Well the only recourse is to install more antennas everywhere or massively elevate the transmission power levels to cover the stadium. Imagine when your city is blanketed in 25ghz microwave transmissions.

Hell federal law limits microwave ovens to 2.4ghz frequency at no more than 5mw/mm^2. You can cook a damn steak with that kind of energy. Imagine a 25ghz, much higher energy carrying frequency, at 100's of watts from the towers from every angle in your city.

See what I mean... there are so many lemmings out there that are blindly defending this tech with little to zero understanding of how RF works and how it interrupts our bodies chemical and physical energy processes.

I understand your feeling and welcome your concerns. Let me just say that mmW 5G band is above 60GHz and should bounce on pretty much any surface hence why they need beam forming capability.
mmW 5G won't be used for cellphone tomorrow, you're confusing this with lower typical cellphone 5G band. mmW 5G is bound for great things where it's needed.

I doubt you'll see mmW in the end user hands in the next few yeards unless VERY specific applications and given the nature of that band, it shouldn't pass thru human bodies.

Edit: Quick google search (not really worth much other than tipping my toe in the pool) says that not much research have been done on such high mmW band on Human bodies but given the nature of it, it would bounce most of the energy from the body while it wouldn't interfere at the atom level. Now is that true... history has proven that money can sway facts until disclosed but I'm enclined to agree that it should be a trivial risk in the current society we're. Now can we make it better or shall it be consider a no go... maybe... but there's far more things that should be a priority I think. Plastic consumption and pollution for a starter. Getting cleaner energy source and planting / protecting trees as a few examples.

Edit2: Yeah, I agree with your first observation, people are quick to judge and fall into bickering zone for no apparent reason. I'm glad we can discuss and tbh, I was reconsidering my participation in most threads because of that...
 
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motomonkey

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.........................Hell federal law limits microwave ovens to 2.4ghz frequency at no more than 5mw/cm^2 (yes I had to google that because I couldnt remember the exact data). You can cook a damn steak with that kind of energy. Imagine a 25ghz much higher energy carrying frequency, at 100's of watts from the towers from every angle in your city.

See what I mean... there are so many lemmings out there that are blindly defending this tech with little to zero understanding of how RF works and how it interrupts our bodies chemical and physical energy processes.

I've have a fairly good grasp of how RF radiation works, and you have written a paper on it, so, what is the expected exposure level of a person living at the base of a 5G tower (at a transmitter power level of lets say, 100 watts) and the effects of this?

I used to work around military radars, RF levels at the transmitter of some of these radars is measured in Kilowatts, not, milliwatts, but Kilowatts. it's obvious to me that there should be a good deal of evidence out there about the effects of high powered Microwaves on people, but you don't see shysters placing ads for class action lawsuits about it, convince me you are not an alarmist.
 

cyklondx

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I've have a fairly good grasp of how RF radiation works, and you have written a paper on it, so, what is the expected exposure level of a person living at the base of a 5G tower (at a transmitter power level of lets say, 100 watts) and the effects of this?

I used to work around military radars, RF levels at the transmitter of some of these radars is measured in Kilowatts, not, milliwatts, but Kilowatts. it's obvious to me that there should be a good deal of evidence out there about the effects of high powered Microwaves on people, but you don't see shysters placing ads for class action lawsuits about it, convince me you are not an alarmist.

I think problem occur in cities when signals from multiple carriers converge, bounce around the buildings etc. Its easy to spot a "hotspots" in cities with areas with kW of power in the air with current 4G networks; carriers are known to boost over the limits quite frequently or install more antennas to cover specific problem areas - thus its easy to go over spec (and no1 is really going to check if they are operating in specs on that.) from another point of effect of microwaves on people - our guys (scientists) do not have enough data on waves below ionization actual effects, and can't say if those signals are harmful or not. Which doesn't exclude they may be harmful, and all we know that they do reduce melatonin production - but not known if it can cause cancer at this point.

There's not enough studies or proof for either side.

Most people prefer to be safe than sorry I guess. "Give us copper, give us fiber - take your non-ionizing EMF to China, so they can test it on masses first"
 
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God whale

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5g is stupid because it doesn't fix anything. Latency? I guess if you expand devices beyond cell phones and need that faster ms response time maybe? But in general, it's not going to replace hardwire connections anytime soon. Extra bandwidth is just extra profit for cell companies to charge for and cell phone manufacturers to demand upgrades to.
Watching idiots cry about being microwaved to death over 5g is hilarious though.
IPv6 is funny too. It's not as if it's going to replace nat.
IoT is a clusterfuck. No one needs it and no one asked for it. I can't believe there are people still using it like a buzzword.
 

cyklondx

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5g is stupid because it doesn't fix anything. Latency? I guess if you expand devices beyond cell phones and need that faster ms response time maybe? But in general, it's not going to replace hardwire connections anytime soon. Extra bandwidth is just extra profit for cell companies to charge for and cell phone manufacturers to demand upgrades to.
Watching idiots cry about being microwaved to death over 5g is hilarious though.
IPv6 is funny too. It's not as if it's going to replace nat.
IoT is a clusterfuck. No one needs it and no one asked for it. I can't believe there are people still using it like a buzzword.
The signal is much wider with 5g, so it does fix most of issues there.
 

dany man

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Your cell phone is not heating up any part of your body to the point of cooking reaction. END OF STORY. At most, it adds a fraction of a degree to your outside ear, and that is removed through normal air cooling.
I don't think so, my cell phone gets me leg hot when its in my pocket if I leave Pokemon go running.
 

God whale

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issue when a lot of people trying to torrent cyberpunk 2077 at the same time. :)
off of 4g?.... it would probably cost more to torrent a game like that off your cell connection than it would be to just buy the game.
 

God whale

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I don't think so, my cell phone gets me leg hot when its in my pocket if I leave Pokemon go running.
But in all seriousness:
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...l-phone-cancer-link-but-fda-is-downplaying-it
Non-ionizing radiation may have health risks:
"The NTP studies were conducted to test the widely-held assumption that cell phone radiofrequency radiation could not cause cancers or other adverse health effects (other than by tissue heating) because this type of radiation (non-ionizing) did not have sufficient energy to break chemical bonds. The NTP findings that cell phone radiation caused cancers in the heart and brain, DNA damage in brain cells, heart muscle disease and reduced birth weights clearly demonstrate that the assumption that non-ionizing radiation cannot cause cancer or other health effects is wrong. "
 

dany man

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But in all seriousness:
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...l-phone-cancer-link-but-fda-is-downplaying-it
Non-ionizing radiation may have health risks:
"The NTP studies were conducted to test the widely-held assumption that cell phone radiofrequency radiation could not cause cancers or other adverse health effects (other than by tissue heating) because this type of radiation (non-ionizing) did not have sufficient energy to break chemical bonds. The NTP findings that cell phone radiation caused cancers in the heart and brain, DNA damage in brain cells, heart muscle disease and reduced birth weights clearly demonstrate that the assumption that non-ionizing radiation cannot cause cancer or other health effects is wrong. "
Let be honest here, your frozen super processed TV dinner chucked full of crap is more likely to give you cancer then 5g cell phone.
Cancer causing stuff is everywhere today.
 
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Cancer FUD aside,

I'm more concerned with the industries hardon with talking about putting 5g chips in everything. This basically eliminates the power to control your own network. Firewalls become non-existent, which is what big corps and evil governments want. They want control over your dns, they want control over what you have access to and they want to do it without you being able to snoop in and figure it out before you can stop them.


Show me a functional 5g firewall i'd be able to setup in linux and maybe i'll get on board...otherwise i'm avoiding any devices that come with it in the future except cell phones.
 

cyklondx

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Cancer FUD aside,

I'm more concerned with the industries hardon with talking about putting 5g chips in everything. This basically eliminates the power to control your own network. Firewalls become non-existent, which is what big corps and evil governments want. They want control over your dns, they want control over what you have access to and they want to do it without you being able to snoop in and figure it out before you can stop them.


Show me a functional 5g firewall i'd be able to setup in linux and maybe i'll get on board...otherwise i'm avoiding any devices that come with it in the future except cell phones.

. . . 5g is made for ppl that are customers to apple and google; "big corps and evil governments" the consumers love it.

"They want to control over your dns" they run your DNS servers.
"Firewalls become non-existent" they make your firewalls.
"what you have access to and they want to do it" google it :>

"without you being able to snoop in and figure it out before you can stop them. " you are late to already lost war of early 2000's.
 

GoodBoy

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You're not putting a Microwave Oven next to your head. STOP FREAKING OUT LIKE THESE ARE ONE AND THE SAME!

Your Microwave Oven's interior is coated in metal in order to keep reflecting the 1000w power being output, and make it better absorbed by the food inside (less waste heat).

http://tobyzerner.com/microwaves/

Never said it was (one and the same)?

Your phone is outputting JUST A COUPLE WATTS, and it's doing so from an omnidirectional antenna. The signal is a lot less concentrated than the enclosed space of the microwave, and the power output is A ALMOST A THOUSAND TIMES LESS.

Your cell phone is not heating up any part of your body to the point of cooking reaction. END OF STORY. At most, it adds a fraction of a degree to your outside ear, and that is removed through normal air cooling.

This doesn't mean someone's brain isn't possibly sensitive to the radiation, which they in turn might perceive as pain. Never said it was "cooking" them to the degree that a Microwave oven does. But the fact that electromagnetic radiation causes observable effects in biological matter (Meat cooking in microwave) demonstrates that it is also probably happening on a much smaller scale from other forms of electromagnetic energy. This is what they might be able to pick up on.
 
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dany man

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Cancer FUD aside,

I'm more concerned with the industries hardon with talking about putting 5g chips in everything. This basically eliminates the power to control your own network. Firewalls become non-existent, which is what big corps and evil governments want. They want control over your dns, they want control over what you have access to and they want to do it without you being able to snoop in and figure it out before you can stop them.


Show me a functional 5g firewall i'd be able to setup in linux and maybe i'll get on board...otherwise i'm avoiding any devices that come with it in the future except cell phones.
Why would a normal firewall not work with a 5g connection?
 

AceGoober

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In practice, technologies 'usually' improve over time. 5G, at least for cell phone, won't be coming anytime soon to the area where I live (close to California/Oregon border, i.e. hippy, backwoods country) and whenever a new technology does make it up here it isn't all that great until the infrastructure is sorted.

I have a distinct feeling the Arcata hippies will be fighting 5G implementation when the service providers finally get around to enabling it up here.
 

lcpiper

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I don't really understand the actual point of 5G, it seems to be hopelessly flawed by the use of super high frequencies and their lack of distance travelled and nearly complete requirement to have line of site and good weather. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I've read about it so far, and it really seems like the technology is going to cost these companies a shitload of money to install in cities, and anywhere that isn't urban is going to have sporadic coverage or no coverage at all in terms of 5g. They have to have 5g antennas facing in multiple directions on nearly have street pole... High speeds are pointless if you only get them in certain super specific conditions.

That said, I have no fucking clue what they are on about in terms of aesthetics. You mean that telephone pole that always looked like shit, somehow looks shittier with some fancy antennas on top of it? Give me a fucking break.

Can anyone paste the article here? It's being blocked for some reason.


I think if you consider the whole solution and not 5G as the entire solution then you'll get it.

1st, just like today, 5G won't be your only available band, 4G will still exist just as 3G is still around. They compliment each other.

2nd, how is it we use our phones, in which situations or locations would we actually make the most use of 5G? In the home, most of us have wireless, and even if you are like me, (I turn wireless calling off, it sucks), 4G will still be capable of serving calls and SMS service. And just as wireless works fine in the home, it can work fine in many other environments. Furthermore, 5G service can make use of repeaters inside appropriate locations like large open work spaces full of cubicles, it's like buying a wireless router for the office. There is a great difference in how 5G will actually need to be deployed verses how current networks are deployed, don't think of it as simply an increase in tower density. Think of it as endpoints deployed from a fiber grid to point locations in high traffic areas that will free up valuable 4G bandwidth for common use. You'll get 5G on campus, at the airport, at Dodger Stadium or the concert auditorium. You don't need 5G to service your home, Wireless and 4G are fully capable. But where large numbers of people spend significant time, 5G can be a blessing that reduces the demand on the 4G spectrum in contested environments.

3rd, The fears of health issues are foolish, higher frequencies just don't penetrate the body like lower frequencies do, this is a lessening of risk not an increase.
 

dany man

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3rd, The fears of health issues are foolish, higher frequencies just don't penetrate the body like lower frequencies do, this is a lessening of risk not an increase.
But wouldn't 5g need more power to transmit over a longer distance unlike 2/3/4g ?
 
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Why would a normal firewall not work with a 5g connection?

Because 5g connects to a cell tower, not your local wifi network. So if all your devices in your future smart home or dumb home filled with smart devices have 5g modems, they'll all make separate individual connections to cell towers and not be funneled through any device you are in control of prior to making that cell tower connection.

It would be different if we were talking about a single 5g connection device and all "smart" devices just use wifi like they do now, but that's not the way things will go. At least not how it's being talked about now.
 

lcpiper

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1.) Phones are not operating at 1100 watts like microwaves do.

2.) The microwave wavelengths are specifically chosen because they maximize interaction with water molecules, thus delivering energy.

3.) Low frequency consumer devices (Radio, Broadcast TV, Cellphone and wifi ranges up through 2.4ghz) are specifically chosen for their abilities to pass through things that are not aerials to as large of an extent possible.

At this point frequencies in the 2.4ghz band have been studied to absolute death, and at the power levels in common use are completely harmless. Any other suggestion is just complete tin-foil-hat conspiracy nonsense not even worth discussion.

Now, the 5Ghz wifi band as well as the high frequency millimeter wave band suggested for 5G have more of a potential of interacting with human tissue. We know this because solid objects do block 5ghz a little and millimeter wave almost completely. That energy has to go somewhere.

But then we need to gain some perspective here. Cellphones tend to broadcast at 300 milliwatt. At that power even in a worst case if all of it is absorbed by the body, you couldn't even quantify the effects. They are negligible.


We live in a time for the past 80 years where EM radiation is all around us at all times, and despite this our life expectancies keep going up (except for a small recent dip, largely caused by the opioid epidemic).

I'm all for being safe, and I think real FDA level safety testing should be required before bringing any new technology or material to market, but believing that cellphones and wifi are harming is is quite frankly just nuts, dreamt up by people who have no understanding of science what so ever.


Although I agree almost completely, I would point out that there are some "anomalies", rare cases that I hesitate to dismiss as hypochondria or delusion. For instance, my mother could not where a traditional mechanical watch, they would die in days never to function again. I can only suppose that it had to do with her body's magnetic "field" or something like that. Perhaps there's been a study, it's not unheard of. I do not doubt that there are some individuals who for some reason, are sensitive and effected in some degree. But as I said, these would be our anomalies and would represent such a low fraction of the population. Hopefully new technologies will advance along lines that give such people relief from the problem. But that remains to be seen, and they are too few to do anything more than say, "we're sorry, move away from the rest of us for your own sake".
 

dany man

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Because 5g connects to a cell tower, not your local wifi network. So if all your devices in your future smart home or dumb home filled with smart devices have 5g modems, they'll all make separate individual connections to cell towers and not be funneled through any device you are in control of prior to making that cell tower connection.

It would be different if we were talking about a single 5g connection device and all "smart" devices just use wifi like they do now, but that's not the way things will go. At least not how it's being talked about now.
Sounds like your going about it the wrong way. Why would you need a firewall on a smart device? If your that worried you should not have such devices to began with.
 
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. . . 5g is made for ppl that are customers to apple and google; "big corps and evil governments" the consumers love it.

"They want to control over your dns" they run your DNS servers.
"Firewalls become non-existent" they make your firewalls.
"what you have access to and they want to do it" google it :>

"without you being able to snoop in and figure it out before you can stop them. " you are late to already lost war of early 2000's.

There are plenty of dns servers not run by your isp or google. I also run a dns cache (which furthe obfuscates dns monitoring efforts as well) and redirect any requests for 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 to my dns server. My gateway/firewall points to an alternative dns server and ignores the isp one (which is google :) )

they dont make my firewall, unless i'm working for them now. I dont use any gateway/accesspoint/router to be my internet firewall / gateway, it's a linux based SBC i setup. It goes fiber -> ethernet -> me . I have that option now, if all the devices have 5g modems, those devices can bypass me.

The home network is still well within your control if you want it. That fight hasn't been lost because it hasen't had a chance to be waged yet.
 
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Sounds like your going about it the wrong way. Why would you need a firewall on a smart device? If your that worried you should not have such devices to began with.


Because smart devices shouldn't have direct access to the internet. Ever. As we have seen they tend to all have tons of security vulnerabilities. If they have modems though, you wont be able control their access. Right now you can avoid buying them because they're mostly stuff that is solving problems that aren't really problems.

But what do you do when all the tv's had them? When all the fridge's have modems. When all the appliances have modems.

It's nearly impossible to get a tv now with top end screen that doesn't also have a bunch of "smart" nonsense included. The future is just going to mimic that across all devices.
 

dany man

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Because smart devices shouldn't have direct access to the internet. Ever. As we have seen they tend to all have tons of security vulnerabilities. If they have modems though, you wont be able control their access. Right now you can avoid buying them because they're mostly stuff that is solving problems that aren't really problems.

But what do you do when all the tv's had them? When all the fridge's have modems. When all the appliances have modems.

It's nearly impossible to get a tv now with top end screen that doesn't also have a bunch of "smart" nonsense included. The future is just going to mimic that across all devices.
simple, don't activate the service or put them on wifi, and lets be real, whats are you worried about? A hacker hacking into your smart TV and changing the channel?
And before you say the stuff will require the 5g services and stuff, not everywhere has cell/internet services, I have friends that live in the quiet zone of WV. These devises would never work there.
 
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simple, don't activate the services, and lets be real, whats are you worried about? A hacker hacking into your smart TV and changing the channel?
And before you say the stuff will require the 5g services and stuff, not everywhere has cell/internet services, I have friends that live in a radio black out zone in WV

not activating the service doesn't mean anything except you can't access the service. The device will still connect and still communicate. It'll still be online. It'll behave just like ONstar does, full functionality, just your specific access and use of those services will be blocked. The company or anyone who hacks them can still access it.

The primary concern isn't hackers hacking your tv to change channels. But once you own a device that is also say, on your lan/ wifi or some kind of 5g mesh network, the job of getting access to something that matters like a PC or laptop is much much easier. Additionally, if your pc or laptop is 5g, then it too isn't protected by your own firewall.

Other than hacking issues though, there's also the control over advertising and tracking requests. I have control over that now. My devices can try and phone home or send data to their tracking hubs all they want on my home network (including the cell phones when they switch to wifi) but they wont reach them. I specifically white list any ad / tracking services I want to allow to continue to work. With a future where all the devices have 5g modems, that's not possible.

If the data is valuable enough to collect, then it's valuable enough to protect and control. And this isn't an all or nothing thing. You dont have to decide to go off the grid and hide in the boonies vs give in completely. All of that middle ground is still beneficial while being better than either extreme.
 

dany man

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
193
not activating the service doesn't mean anything except you can't access the service. The device will still connect and still communicate. It'll still be online. It'll behave just like ONstar does, full functionality, just your specific access and use of those services will be blocked. The company or anyone who hacks them can still access it.

The primary concern isn't hackers hacking your tv to change channels. But once you own a device that is also say, on your lan/ wifi or some kind of 5g mesh network, the job of getting access to something that matters like a PC or laptop is much much easier. Additionally, if your pc or laptop is 5g, then it too isn't protected by your own firewall.

Other than hacking issues though, there's also the control over advertising and tracking requests. I have control over that now. My devices can try and phone home or send data to their tracking hubs all they want on my home network (including the cell phones when they switch to wifi) but they wont reach them. I specifically white list any ad / tracking services I want to allow to continue to work. With a future where all the devices have 5g modems, that's not possible.

If the data is valuable enough to collect, then it's valuable enough to protect and control. And this isn't an all or nothing thing. You dont have to decide to go off the grid and hide in the boonies vs give in completely. All of that middle ground is still beneficial while being better than either extreme.
ok lets get this right, why would you put it on your lan/wifi? if you don't use the service what is the point? And yes they are super unsecured I don't know why anyone would want them to touch there wifi.
Second are you really so paranoid that your scared by targeted adds? even a dumb TV does that. Ever realize how kids shows always have toy adds or and car shows have car adds?
And 3rd, why are you worried about your TV or fridge tracking you? Do you go for running after your fridge? No they stay at home lol.

P.S. ypu can shut off ONstar on a car. I done it before, I striped it out of cars too.
I do it to remove power hogs and dead weight to get better MPG.
 
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Dayaks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
8,253
ok lets get this right, why would you put it on your lan/wifi? if you don't use the service what is the point? And yes they are super unsecured I don't know why anyone would want them to touch there wifi.
Second are you really so paranoid that your scared by targeted adds? even a dumb TV does that. Ever realize how kids shows always have toy adds or and car shows have car adds?
And 3rd, why are you worried about your TV or fridge tracking you? Do you go for running after your fridge? No they stay at home lol.

P.S. ypu can shut off ONstar on a car. I done it before, I striped it out of cars too.
I do it to remove power hogs and unneeded stuff to get better MPG.

Yeah I did exactly this. I had a Nest thermostat bricked in the middle of winter, by Nest. The new one I just keep it offline... and can still set what I want on the screen.
 

dany man

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
193
Yeah I did exactly this. I had a Nest thermostat bricked in the middle of winter, by Nest. The new one I just keep it offline... and can still set what I want on the screen.
My point exactly, 99% of the time you don't need the service. But why did they brick it? and in the middle of winter that's sick. Id would have got supper laud online and sued them if that was me.
 

Dayaks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
8,253
My point exactly, 99% of the time you don't need the service. But why did they brick it? and in the middle of winter that's sick. Id would have got supper laud online and sued them if that was me.

Routine auto update that AFAIK you can’t shut off. I imagine it was an accident. I just keep it offline now. I have steam heat which doesn’t like being cycled anyways (dramatic changes in setpoint).
 

dany man

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
193
Routine auto update that AFAIK you can’t shut off. I imagine it was an accident. I just keep it offline now. I have steam heat which doesn’t like being cycled anyways (dramatic changes in setpoint).
Oh I see.That makes since. I thought they like shut it off or something.
 

cyklondx

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
419
There are plenty of dns servers not run by your isp or google. I also run a dns cache (which furthe obfuscates dns monitoring efforts as well) and redirect any requests for 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 to my dns server. My gateway/firewall points to an alternative dns server and ignores the isp one (which is google :) )

they dont make my firewall, unless i'm working for them now. I dont use any gateway/accesspoint/router to be my internet firewall / gateway, it's a linux based SBC i setup. It goes fiber -> ethernet -> me . I have that option now, if all the devices have 5g modems, those devices can bypass me.

The home network is still well within your control if you want it. That fight hasn't been lost because it hasen't had a chance to be waged yet.
ever played with pf or peerblock? you can use ur own firewall... or node-to-node ssh tunnels? You can buy a shell anywhere in the world and do your own vpn...

you can always put your kind of devices before your client device; and do whatever that you want.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
594
Because 5g connects to a cell tower, not your local wifi network. So if all your devices in your future smart home or dumb home filled with smart devices have 5g modems, they'll all make separate individual connections to cell towers and not be funneled through any device you are in control of prior to making that cell tower connection.

It would be different if we were talking about a single 5g connection device and all "smart" devices just use wifi like they do now, but that's not the way things will go. At least not how it's being talked about now.

Wait, so 5g is faster than a broadband cable connection? My phone connects to wifi when I am home. This will change?
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
532
ok lets get this right, why would you put it on your lan/wifi? if you don't use the service what is the point? And yes they are super unsecured I don't know why anyone would want them to touch there wifi.
Second are you really so paranoid that your scared by targeted adds? even a dumb TV does that. Ever realize how kids shows always have toy adds or and car shows have car adds?
And 3rd, why are you worried about your TV or fridge tracking you? Do you go for running after your fridge? No they stay at home lol.

In the future, where every device is connected (and they will be) Some may be ones you want to work but dont want to pay for the 5g service, so you connect them to your lan. Now, you can firewall those just fine, but you have no visibility into what it's doing on it's 5g connection you're not paying for. Most likely it will still be connected via that connection and open security holes into your lan, bypass servers you're blocking etc.


ever played with pf or peerblock? you can use ur own firewall... or node-to-node ssh tunnels? You can buy a shell anywhere in the world and do your own vpn...

you can always put your kind of devices before your client device; and do whatever that you want.

You can't when the modem the device has doesn't connect to anything you own. It connects to a cell tower.

Wait, so 5g is faster than a broadband cable connection? My phone connects to wifi when I am home. This will change?

most 5g marketing material talk about a future where your home is 5g, everything is 5g and there is no wifi etc. Obviously that's not fully possible everywhere, but it's not a stretch at all for companies to use 5g to circumvent the tracking issues they have with NAT and other user control devices. So while they may even still use your home network if you set it up to do it's primary activities, if they have 5g modems, it will also likely maintain a 5g connection to fall back on if it encounters a problem (you're firewalling some server it wants ) and to provide direct access to the device for remote management/access.
 
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