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Charlie with Nvidia and Intel

This guy is always a good entertaining read true or not. He reminds me of TMZ

"If you read the link here, the boys in green are spinning hard, with a big show starting today, but have nothing to show. Sure, Nvidia will have one or two 'puppies', the firm's code for Fermi boards, sans silicon, hacked up, and stuck together with the finest glue sticks on hand. It will even have one or two *GASP* with silicon in them! The problem? The silicon blows."
Click to expand...

LOL

This one is right on hate all you want

Luckily, gaming is a priority at Nvidia, just as long as gaming doesn't mean that there is an ATI chip anywhere in the system, then it locks you out for your own good.
Click to expand...
 
Honestly, if his bias came after the recent slew of Nvidia customer scamming (via GTS 250, the entire 9000 series, add-to-cart-to-view-price, physx blocking, paying to block Ati features in games, etc) I'd understand where he's coming from (yet still not trust his articles).
 
Dethred said:
Honestly, if his bias came after the recent slew of Nvidia customer scamming (via GTS 250, the entire 9000 series, add-to-cart-to-view-price, physx blocking, paying to block Ati features in games, etc) I'd understand where he's coming from (yet still not trust his articles).
Click to expand...

The 9400,9500 and 9600s were scams? Wow, coulda fooled me.

As to PhysX, I understand why they did it, but dont agree. Have you bothered to ponder this question, If ATI released a driver and it borked PhysX and it took Nvidia say 3-6m to fix it for THAT driver because ATI sure as hell aint gonna help them, who are you going to blame for that, Nvidia or ATI? If you answer Nvidia, then you also have your answer as to why they shut it down.

And as to them shutting down ATI Features? What ATI features did Nvidia turn off?
 
Didn't Eidos state that ATI had no intrest in working with them before the game was released?
 
XMAN245 said:
The 9400,9500 and 9600s were scams? Wow, coulda fooled me.

As to PhysX, I understand why they did it, but dont agree. Have you bothered to ponder this question, If ATI released a driver and it borked PhysX and it took Nvidia say 3-6m to fix it for THAT driver because ATI sure as hell aint gonna help them, who are you going to blame for that, Nvidia or ATI? If you answer Nvidia, then you also have your answer as to why they shut it down.

And as to them shutting down ATI Features? What ATI features did Nvidia turn off?
Click to expand...

AA in a game, batman I believe. (more truthfully they just conveniently omitted it as an option for ATI cards when it was in fact fully supported, "shutting down" ATI features has a different connotation in my mind) as for the physx I understand your point but with everything else they have done there its hard to buy that as being there reason. and all it would have taken is a message that physx was not supported with ATI hardware and use at your own risk. kinda what everyone is doing now with the hack.

well the 9600 were pretty good (wish they would try a die shrink on these rather then that ION crap), but yeah most of the others were rebrands / rehashes of old tech.the 9400/9500 were crap any way you dice them. Nvidia renaming is pretty damn dishonest. I have had to explain this to more then a few people what the actual case was.
 
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XMAN245 said:
The 9400,9500 and 9600s were scams? Wow, coulda fooled me.

As to PhysX, I understand why they did it, but dont agree. Have you bothered to ponder this question, If ATI released a driver and it borked PhysX and it took Nvidia say 3-6m to fix it for THAT driver because ATI sure as hell aint gonna help them, who are you going to blame for that, Nvidia or ATI? If you answer Nvidia, then you also have your answer as to why they shut it down.

And as to them shutting down ATI Features? What ATI features did Nvidia turn off?
Click to expand...

You're right, the entire 9000 series were based on new technology and weren't just re-named cards with a few tweaks and no generation-defining performance increase.:rolleyes:

You're also right that it was a driver issue, not the fact that Nvidia has a monetary interest in only allowing physX setups to have only Nvidia cards. Definitely ignore the fact that people can create their own Ati/Nvidia physX setups by using a workaround. :rolleyes:

As for batman developers disabling features for playing with ATi cards... Have you been living under a bridge?
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=148873

Definitely don't address the rest of Nvidia's shady business practices in your posts to come.
 
Dethred said:
You're right, the entire 9000 series were based on new technology and weren't just re-named cards with a few tweaks and no generation-defining performance increase.:rolleyes:

You're also right that it was a driver issue, not the fact that Nvidia has a monetary interest in only allowing physX setups to have only Nvidia cards. Definitely ignore the fact that people can create their own Ati/Nvidia physX setups by using a workaround. :rolleyes:

As for batman developers disabling features for playing with ATi cards... Have you been living under a bridge?
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=148873

Definitely don't address the rest of Nvidia's shady business practices in your posts to come.
Click to expand...

Get a clue dude. 9400/9500 and 9600s were new chip designs and were not die shrinks/rebrands of the G8Xs they replaced, which by the way, the 9400 and 9500 perform a good deal better then the 8400 and 8500s they replaced. The G92, AKA 8800GT, 8800GTS, 9800GT/X/+/250GTS were renaming/rebranding schemes, but dont call or say the WHOLE 9000 series line was this as it is simply not true.

No, I havne't been living under a bridge and it was the developer who decided not to allow ATI cards to use AA in the game, on a game engine that had 0, zip, zilch, nada AA support prior to Nvidia writing the code for the game to give it AA. Now I know you'll say Nvidia said to lock them out, but to date that hasn't been a single email produced that even remotely says that. In fact, its the Guys in suits who say not to reuse the code, not Nvidia. Care to guess the company the Suits works for? Heres a hint, there name isn't Nvidia.


As to PhysX, I already said I dont agree with their stance, but can understand it. And try answering the questions. Do you honestly believe ATI will help Nvidia fix a physx driver after one of there updates fucks it up? Who will you blame if PhysX in a game doesn't work because of your ATI render/Nvidia PhysX setup when an update from ATI screws it up? NVidia may have more funds available to them, doesn't mean they want to use it all buying hardware and troubleshooting 20k+ more possible hardware configs. Not like ATI is going to share their profits with them or a few driver guys when issues arrise.
 
Valset said:
as for the physx I understand your point but with everything else they have done there its hard to buy that as being there reason. and all it would have taken is a message that physx was not supported with ATI hardware and use at your own risk. kinda what everyone is doing now with the hack.
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Something I told Chris Ray to pass along to the Driver team and higher ups at Nvidia, just add a damn disclaimer and bam, your covered. but ohwell.
 
Charlie was pretty accurate in May when he was still working for theinquirer.com

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

Charlie D on May 14th said:
GT300 will be quarters late, and without a miracle, miss back to school, the Windows 7 launch, and Christmas.
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I really don't see why he's so controversial other than the tone of his articles. In which case you should man up and not RAGE so hard. His timetable was always pretty reasonable and he actually gave an explanation to back it up.

GT300 is incredibly complex, incedibly huge, a new architecture, and is designed to be manufactured on an incredibly shitty 40nm process. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are going to be significantly behind schedule and yet no one believed him.

Nvidia is deserving of all the hate they've been getting lately. Did you guys forget: http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/02/19/nvidia_stock_plummets ?
 
Wotan said:
Charlie was pretty accurate in May when he was still working for theinquirer.com

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture



I really don't see why he's so controversial other than the tone of his articles. In which case you should man up and not RAGE so hard. His timetable was always pretty reasonable and he actually gave an explanation to back it up.

GT300 is incredibly complex, incedibly huge, a new architecture, and is designed to be manufactured on an incredibly shitty 40nm process. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are going to be significantly behind schedule and yet no one believed him.

Nvidia is deserving of all the hate they've been getting lately. Did you guys forget: http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/02/19/nvidia_stock_plummets ?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here is defending Nvidia, lately they have had their head up their asses. but it doesn't help to loose perspective either and charlie spreads a lot of hate around and taken a lot of things way out of proportion.
 
I don't see why people WANT NVIDIA to do poorly. I'd love to see Fermi come out and kick ass. Look at the ATI 5800 series video card prices right now for an example of why.
 
. . . charlie spreads a lot of hate around and taken a lot of things way out of proportion.
Click to expand...

Has anyone heard the story *why* Charlie is so bitter toward Nvidia?
 
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XMAN245 said:
Get a clue dude. 9400/9500 and 9600s were new chip designs and were not die shrinks/rebrands of the G8Xs they replaced, which by the way, the 9400 and 9500 perform a good deal better then the 8400 and 8500s they replaced. The G92, AKA 8800GT, 8800GTS, 9800GT/X/+/250GTS were renaming/rebranding schemes, but dont call or say the WHOLE 9000 series line was this as it is simply not true.
Click to expand...

Sorry, let me rephrase and add to my previous statement: "The entire line of decent 9000 series cards were just renamed and later named GTS250s". That makes it a whole lot better. Good thing your point totally disarmed my point about Nvidia being shady as hell about their naming practices. Oh except the only actual gamer GPU you listed, the 9600 (or one that sane people would use for gaming) can be softmodded into... an 8800GTS. http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=610

No, I havne't been living under a bridge and it was the developer who decided not to allow ATI cards to use AA in the game, on a game engine that had 0, zip, zilch, nada AA support prior to Nvidia writing the code for the game to give it AA. Now I know you'll say Nvidia said to lock them out, but to date that hasn't been a single email produced that even remotely says that. In fact, its the Guys in suits who say not to reuse the code, not Nvidia. Care to guess the company the Suits works for? Heres a hint, there name isn't Nvidia.
Click to expand...

You're right, it must be a huge coincidence that a TWIMTBP title only has AA on TWIMTBP cards. Sorry for the confusion.


As to PhysX, I already said I dont agree with their stance, but can understand it. And try answering the questions. Do you honestly believe ATI will help Nvidia fix a physx driver after one of there updates fucks it up? Who will you blame if PhysX in a game doesn't work because of your ATI render/Nvidia PhysX setup when an update from ATI screws it up? NVidia may have more funds available to them, doesn't mean they want to use it all buying hardware and troubleshooting 20k+ more possible hardware configs. Not like ATI is going to share their profits with them or a few driver guys when issues arrise.
Click to expand...

Like another member stated, all they had to do was put a warning popup in the driver installation process if an ATi card was detected, or outright refuse technical support to customers on the issue. People are still using ATi video with Nvidia physx dedicated GPUs with modified drivers. To deny the fact that it is a ploy to force people into buying Nvidia GPU setups for physx is naive'.
 
Nvidia missing their clocks is old news. That was posted in the forums last month. It's just that Charlie really lays it on thick.
 
Direfox said:
Wondering also. Was he the only choir boy in nVidia's monastery? :eek:
Click to expand...

several stories and I don't don't know that any of them have truth to them but the most often repeated one was that Charlie broke an NDA and was blacklisted by them. I kinda doubt this though as being "blacklisted" just isn't much of a threat for someone like Charlie that has dozens of industry insiders he could go to. and Nvidia blacklisting certainly would not carry over to the AIB partners as they don't have to account for every card. and if all else he could just buy them. not like can't afford it or doesn't have the pull.

In short I don't know and haven't heard a convincing story yet as to why.
 
Dethred said:
Sorry, let me rephrase and add to my previous statement: "The entire line of decent 9000 series cards were just renamed and later named GTS250s". That makes it a whole lot better. Good thing your point totally disarmed my point about Nvidia being shady as hell about their naming practices. Oh except the only actual gamer GPU you listed, the 9600 (or one that sane people would use for gaming) can be softmodded into... an 8800GTS. http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=610



You're right, it must be a huge coincidence that a TWIMTBP title only has AA on TWIMTBP cards. Sorry for the confusion.




Like another member stated, all they had to do was put a warning popup in the driver installation process if an ATi card was detected, or outright refuse technical support to customers on the issue. People are still using ATi video with Nvidia physx dedicated GPUs with modified drivers. To deny the fact that it is a ploy to force people into buying Nvidia GPU setups for physx is naive'.
Click to expand...

The 9600GT is based on G94 which only has 64SPs in it so I dont see how it can be softmodded into anything. The 9600GSO on the other hand is based on G92, so I could see that one.

Believe what you want.

I have not defend their position, I'm on the side of gamers. But m,aybe you should take your head out of ass and try looking at it from their side on that one for once.
 
Hypernova said:
So that is really true? :eek: Wow...
Click to expand...

Not completely. Evidently, it is somewhat exaggerated but based on what transpired.

Evidently, Charlie did break NDAs with Nvidia to get a lot of traffic to his site. Well, Nvidia does not tolerate this - and Charlie does have good sources without them.

So evidently there was a meeting with no agreement and things went bad leaving some bitter feelings.
 
despite what charlie says about fermie
it's still going to be a success when it does get released :)

hopefully I'll have enough funds to get one at release
 
apoppin said:
Not completely. Evidently, it is somewhat exaggerated but based on what transpired.

Evidently, Charlie did break NDAs with Nvidia to get a lot of traffic to his site. Well, Nvidia does not tolerate this - and Charlie does have good sources without them.

So evidently there was a meeting with no agreement and things went bad leaving some bitter feelings.
Click to expand...

my problem with this is that it isn't much of a grievance on either side. NDA are flexible (remember ATI recent snafu with the 4800 being SOLD before the NDA lifted?) and no breach would (well, should have) caused Nvidia to make such a bad enemy. (if you think that is an exaggeration look at all the discussion on this board over him). And why should charlie care so much? just how exactly has being black balled hurt him? if anything the feud has popularized him.

I may be giving both sides too much credit here but that would be a piss poor reason to go on like this.
 
Valset said:
... And why should charlie care so much? just how exactly has being black balled hurt him? if anything the feud has popularized him...
Click to expand...

And it looks like there is the answer. Website hits soared when he gets down and dirty and BINGO, an epiphany. Milk it till it dies, ... and it never dies :(
 
XMAN245 said:
Something I told Chris Ray to pass along to the Driver team and higher ups at Nvidia, just add a damn disclaimer and bam, your covered. but ohwell.
Click to expand...

A simple disclaimer that no one reads isn't going to stop idiots from posting "physx makes me ATI card crash in batman" all over the internet. That is what they are trying to avoid.

Now if you mean they bury it under an "unsupported" options deep in the Nvidia control pannel, well then you may be on to something.
 
Valset said:
my problem with this is that it isn't much of a grievance on either side. NDA are flexible (remember ATI recent snafu with the 4800 being SOLD before the NDA lifted?) and no breach would (well, should have) caused Nvidia to make such a bad enemy. (if you think that is an exaggeration look at all the discussion on this board over him). And why should charlie care so much? just how exactly has being black balled hurt him? if anything the feud has popularized him.

I may be giving both sides too much credit here but that would be a piss poor reason to go on like this.
Click to expand...

it appears that Charlie used the event as an excuse to turn his site into a very popular anti-Nvidia site. He doesn't need Nvidia - except to bash them; it made his site popular. So he escalated the rhetoric.
 
Wotan said:
Nvidia is deserving of all the hate they've been getting lately. Did you guys forget: http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/02/19/nvidia_stock_plummets ?
Click to expand...

Ah the whims of the stock market.

If you had bought NVDA back then, at $7.42, and pretty much the bottom of the overall market, you could have it today at $16. Up another 12% today after intel's Larrabee delay.

I wonder how much of the fermi release drama is already cooked into today's price.
 
Xiphos said:
despite what charlie says about fermie
it's still going to be a success when it does get released :)
Click to expand...

Facts? Links? anything? How's is this "launch" going to be different from the hd 2900xt?
 
Dethred said:
You're right, the entire 9000 series were based on new technology and weren't just re-named cards with a few tweaks and no generation-defining performance increase.:rolleyes:

You're also right that it was a driver issue, not the fact that Nvidia has a monetary interest in only allowing physX setups to have only Nvidia cards. Definitely ignore the fact that people can create their own Ati/Nvidia physX setups by using a workaround. :rolleyes:

As for batman developers disabling features for playing with ATi cards... Have you been living under a bridge?
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=148873

Definitely don't address the rest of Nvidia's shady business practices in your posts to come.
Click to expand...

nVidia didn't block them for sure...

“A representative of AMD recently claimed that NVIDIA interfered with anti-aliasing (AA) support for Batman: Arkham Asylum on AMD cards. They also claimed that NVIDIA’s The Way It’s Meant to be Played Program prevents AMD from working with developers for those games.


Both of these claims are NOT true. Batman is based on the Unreal Engine 3, which does not natively support anti-aliasing. We worked closely with Eidos to add AA and QA the feature on GeForce. Nothing prevented AMD from doing the same thing.


Games in The Way It’s Meant to be Played are not exclusive to NVIDIA. AMD can also contact developers and work with them.


We are proud of the work we do in The Way It’s Meant to be Played. We work hard to deliver kickass, game-changing features in PC games like PhysX, AA, and 3D Vision for games like Batman.If AMD wants to deliver innovation for PC games then we encourage them to roll up their sleeves and do the same.”

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news...ms-meddling-batman-arkham-asylum-aa-features/
 
BravO))) said:
Facts? Links? anything? How's is this "launch" going to be different from the hd 2900xt?
Click to expand...

AMD launched ATi's bastard child, 2900xt, months late and pretty raw and it was only able to compete with Nvidia's midrange 8800-GTS
- If you are talking about Nvidia less than stellar launches, they launched the 'dustbuster' FX 5800

Actually, Nvidia is not pressured like AMD was. They can take their time to refine GF 100 since AMD is having a really hard time with their own supply problems and they are not gaining much market share, anyway.
 
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apoppin said:
Actually, Nvidia is not pressured like AMD was. They can take their time to refine GF 100 since AMD is having a really hard time with their own supply problems and they are not gaining much market share, anyway.
Click to expand...

The problem with this logic is that they are both using the same manufacturer for their gpu's. If AMD is have a supply shorting... Guess what? Nvidia will too. When nvidia launches the gt300, Amd will have enough supply while Nvidia will be suffering from the same problems that Amd faces right now for the launch... Slow and bad yields from the factory will ensure the launch of the gt300 will end up some what like the 58xx series.
 
BravO))) said:
The problem with this logic is that they are both using the same manufacturer for their gpu's. If AMD is have a supply shorting... Guess what? Nvidia will too. When nvidia launches the gt300, Amd will have enough supply while Nvidia will be suffering from the same problems that Amd faces right now for the launch... Slow and bad yields from the factory will ensure the launch of the gt300 will end up some what like the 58xx series.
Click to expand...

You are assuming the problem is a process (i.e. 40nm) specific problem and not unqiue to the 58xx series line. From what has leaked out from TSMC, it would suggest the latter.
 
BravO))) said:
The problem with this logic is that they are both using the same manufacturer for their gpu's. If AMD is have a supply shorting... Guess what? Nvidia will too. When nvidia launches the gt300, Amd will have enough supply while Nvidia will be suffering from the same problems that Amd faces right now for the launch... Slow and bad yields from the factory will ensure the launch of the gt300 will end up some what like the 58xx series.
Click to expand...

No i don't think you get it. Nvidia will time it so that GF100 will be refined and launched when TSMC's yield and supply issues ease Q1 next year. That way they can ramp their clocks and perfect their drivers until they (and AMD) also have a good supply. And AMD will then have to scramble to get their refresh out to match the faster Nvidia cards.
 
apoppin said:
No i don't think you get it. Nvidia will time it so that GF100 will be refined and launched when the yield and supply issues ease. That way they can ramp their clocks and perfect their drivers when AMD also has good supply. And AMD will then have to scramble to get their refresh out to match the faster Nvidia cards.
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I don't think Amd will have to scramble as they already knows what's coming. I don't think you scramble when you plan to go to war for the fact you know when and how the enemy is coming.
 
Ritorix said:
Ah the whims of the stock market.

If you had bought NVDA back then, at $7.42, and pretty much the bottom of the overall market, you could have it today at $16. Up another 12% today after intel's Larrabee delay.

I wonder how much of the fermi release drama is already cooked into today's price.
Click to expand...

Sarcasm isn't your strong suit, eh? The point, you missed it entirely.
 
kadozer said:
This guy is always a good entertaining read true or not. He reminds me of TMZ
Click to expand...
Hey! Don't be dissing the TMZ! A lot of their stories are often correct and the first ones out. Of course, portraying themselves as a "National Inquirer"-esque "celebrity" news agency doesn't help. ;)

Charlie, on the other hand, is just pure entertainment, but take whatever he says with a boulder of salt. :)
 
TeeJay said:
nVidia didn't block them for sure...

“A representative of AMD recently claimed that NVIDIA interfered with anti-aliasing (AA) support for Batman: Arkham Asylum on AMD cards. They also claimed that NVIDIA’s The Way It’s Meant to be Played Program prevents AMD from working with developers for those games.


Both of these claims are NOT true. Batman is based on the Unreal Engine 3, which does not natively support anti-aliasing. We worked closely with Eidos to add AA and QA the feature on GeForce. Nothing prevented AMD from doing the same thing.


Games in The Way It’s Meant to be Played are not exclusive to NVIDIA. AMD can also contact developers and work with them.


We are proud of the work we do in The Way It’s Meant to be Played. We work hard to deliver kickass, game-changing features in PC games like PhysX, AA, and 3D Vision for games like Batman.If AMD wants to deliver innovation for PC games then we encourage them to roll up their sleeves and do the same.”

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news...ms-meddling-batman-arkham-asylum-aa-features/
Click to expand...

Of course I would trust those who are screwing around with such matters. What would you expect Nvidia to say? Something other than what you quoted above?:rolleyes:
 
BravO))) said:
I don't think Amd will have to scramble as they already knows what's coming. I don't think you scramble when you plan to go to war for the fact you know when and how the enemy is coming.
Click to expand...
Do they really know what is coming in the form of GF 100?
- i am sure they are preparing for a refresh ASAP (anyway)

And i never really understood the Batman: AA, AA issue; it is simply inconvenient to go to the CP to force AA for an AMD video card. The performance issues they experience are mostly related to AMD not optimizing AA for Batman.
 
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