Centralized HTPC

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backflipper

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
409
So I'm looking to use some birthday money to build an htpc later this month. The thing is, I want the pc to be in one room, and for it to deliver the media to two different rooms. I plan on running two HDMI cables through the wall to each of these rooms. I am brand new to the htpc world, and didn't see a thread on this specific subject. so I have several questions for anyone who will help:

What kind of hardware should I be looking at?

I want to hook up my xbox in this central location as well, is it even feasible to use the xbox controller through a couple walls? Or will it create lag between the controller & the xbox?

Is it possible to use the htpc in both rooms at the same time (movie in one room xbox in another)?

I know there are more questions to ask, software and such, but this will get me started at least.

Thanks
 
If it was all networked, you can have the HTPC is one room and the xbox in another. And you can use the xbox as a media extender and get access to content from the HTPC. But it all depends on what you want to do with your HTPC. Also, do you want this xbox to be able to be played on either tv at will or something? I think a couple walls is pushing it. But try going into this centralized location and see if you can turn on the xbox from there, given the xbox is in one of the rooms with the tv.
 
1.) Build a WHS box + HTPC + SageTV +Sage Extender
2.) Build a Win7 HTPC + 360s as Extenders in each room

There is no simple "one box to rule them all" device. You'll need a few separate devices all doing something different to meet your goal. The most forward looking option is to build a WHS box and get SageTV for it, do all your recording on it and then either populate your home with Sage Extenders or repurposed PCs made into HTPCs. This option will let you easily extend your network, HTPCs systems, etc.

The second option is to use Windows 7 Media Center and use a couple of 360s in Extender mode. The problem with this is that you can't use another PC to connect to your main 7MC HTPC. It's actually very limited.
 
i want someone to hack wmc7 when the 4-tuner centon digital cablecard thingys come out, so that you can run multiple instances of wmc with a tuner for each one. then all you need is usb and audio cables run to each room, if you can figure out the audio part i guess. use displaylink monitors, you can do up to 10 rooms.

if u did say 5 rooms all in HD i would imagine you'd need an i7 setup for sure, but even if the whole thing cost $2k it would be worth it, as you wouldnt have 5+ computers to pay for and fuck with all the time.
 
Just a couple of notes and thoughts on CrimandEvil's recommendations:

Option 1:
If you have an old PC lying around, you can easily and cheaply repurpose it to serve as a WHS box. Just add a new PSU (if the old one is lacking), Intel Gigabit NIC (for faster LAN transfers), and a bunch of hard drives. You'll be set.

Option 2:
This is probably the option you're closest to considering that you already have a 360. Also here's prelim build for a Win7 HTPC should you go for this option:
$58 - AMD Athlon II X2 240 CPU
$65 - Asus M4A78LT-M LE AM3 AMD 780L mATX Motherboard
$50 - OCZ Gold 2 x 1GB DDR3 1066 RAM
$50 - XFX HD-545X-YNH2 Radeon HD 5450 512MB PCI-E Video Card
$90 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$100 - Antec NSK2480 mATX case with Antec Earthwatts 380W PSU
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Total: $413 plus tax and shipping.

If set up correctly, the video card will offload the decoding of HD playback. As such the CPU will be more than enough to play back HD content. In addition that video card can provide bitstreamed audio via HDMI. The Antec NSK 2480 is pretty much the standard HTPC case these days.
 
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if your htpc isnt going to play games there is only one reason for a pcie card, and that bitstream audio is something most wont use. you can save what 30w or so just by getting the right motherboard? i would much rather have a cpu that can do everything, the compatibility and ease of use absolutely smokes trying to offload everything to gpu.
 
Danny Bui said:
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Total: $413 plus tax and shipping.

If set up correctly, the video card will offload the decoding of HD playback. As such the CPU will be more than enough to play back HD content. In addition that video card can provide bitstreamed audio via HDMI. The Antec NSK 2480 is pretty much the standard HTPC case these days.
Click to expand...

Drop the video card and spend $10 for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131318

It does 7.1 HD LPCM audio over HDMI which is the next best thing to bitstreamed audio. Unless you have a receiver that expressly does TrueHD and DTS-MA I would suggest just going the 7.1 LPCM route, you can always drop in a supported video card later if you upgrade your audio setup. :)
 
CrimandEvil said:
Drop the video card and spend $10 for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131318

It does 7.1 HD LPCM audio over HDMI which is the next best thing to bitstreamed audio. Unless you have a receiver that expressly does TrueHD and DTS-MA I would suggest just going the 7.1 LPCM route, you can always drop in a supported video card later if you upgrade your audio setup. :)
Click to expand...

I have that motherboard and it doesn't do smooth playback of HD. I had to put an add-in video card to get the results I wanted in my HTPC.
 
outspoken said:
I have that motherboard and it doesn't do smooth playback of HD. I had to put an add-in video card to get the results I wanted in my HTPC.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I've had no trouble with mine but I am using a mITX Zotac 8200 instead of the Asus 8200.
 
outspoken said:
I have that motherboard and it doesn't do smooth playback of HD. I had to put an add-in video card to get the results I wanted in my HTPC.
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it should... my radeon 3200 chipset actually works fairly well keeping the load off my laptop cpu.... but like i was saying, you can resolve all your headaches by just getting a fast enough processor. i really think the gpu offloading is only good for atom cpu's, where you just dont have enough processing power to do it.
 
krupted said:
it should... my radeon 3200 chipset actually works fairly well keeping the load off my laptop cpu.... but like i was saying, you can resolve all your headaches by just getting a fast enough processor. i really think the gpu offloading is only good for atom cpu's, where you just dont have enough processing power to do it.
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I don't know. Back in the s939 days I had to run a hot dual core X2 in my HTPC just to get decent playback with 1080p compressed video (not even close to Blu ray quality), this was around the time HD material was just coming out and my HTPC was rocking a 6150 chipset. Next thing I knew my single core 3400+ wasn't able to play 720p Apple movie trailers!! Had to upgrade to an X2 3800 and then rework the whole cooling system in my Antec 2400 cause the CPU fan kept ramping up like a little chainsaw.

So yeah, if I can an IGP that does as much as possible of the decoding then fuck yeah! I did my time, I learned my lessons. :)

The upside is that more efficient hardware lets you do more things with it. Like actually being able to stuff a nice little system into a tiny case without sacrificing anything (I say this cause back in the day there was a Tom's hardware article about building an HTPC where they stumbled through the process and burned up a Prescott P4 and mobo in a tiny, slim DVD player style case).
 
the new 4 tuner cable card from ceton via cannonPC will support tunner sharing between HTPCs

I would/will build multiple low end AMD HTPCs for each room, better support for video files and better with media browser than a xbox360.
 
CrimandEvil said:
I don't know. Back in the s939 days I had to run a hot dual core X2 in my HTPC just to get decent playback with 1080p compressed video (not even close to Blu ray quality), this was around the time HD material was just coming out and my HTPC was rocking a 6150 chipset. Next thing I knew my single core 3400+ wasn't able to play 720p Apple movie trailers!! Had to upgrade to an X2 3800 and then rework the whole cooling system in my Antec 2400 cause the CPU fan kept ramping up like a little chainsaw.

So yeah, if I can an IGP that does as much as possible of the decoding then fuck yeah! I did my time, I learned my lessons. :)
Click to expand...

i agree with this, because my mom's htpc i built her (x2 3800+) is currently having the same struggles running her 1080p tv with a 2600p video card. it works fine, but high def hulu feeds i can notice some jutter, even though it apparently doesnt bother her.

but in her case, there isnt a whole lot of upgrade room... so i could justify a new video card for $50. but for a new build? with all the problems of getting subtitles to work with dxva in media center? a fast cpu, like the e5200, is cheap and still fairly power efficient. once you have that level of cpu power, everything you install needs no setup... its all plug n play (which to me is the single most important part of htpc's- keeping it simple and easy)
 
Thanks for the input everyone.

I am really trying to everything out of the room with the TV. I have two toddlers that like to fiddle with our electronics. I don't want to keep the xbox or the htpc in a closed cabinet.

Here are my thoughts. I build an HTPC with the following specs.

Then purchase one of these HDMI distributors and connect the htpc, xbox 360, and whatever else. Then run HDMI cables to both rooms (less than 20' runs each).

I should be able to run the htpc via an rf remote, or the gmote software on my droid.

Does this seem feasible? Or are there unforseen problems I'll run into? Obviously the hdmi switch won't be as user friendly, as I would have to change it manually (or with the remote) from the room it is located. But other than that, it seems like it should work.
 
yeah thats a feasible solution... if you only need htpc access to one room at a time, its not a bad way to go. you might want to buy a portable dvd player that you can take into any room just in case you want to play some kids stuff in one room while you watch the htpc stuff in another... but otherwise, i dont see any real problems.
 
backflipper said:
Does this seem feasible? Or are there unforseen problems I'll run into? Obviously the hdmi switch won't be as user friendly, as I would have to change it manually (or with the remote) from the room it is located. But other than that, it seems like it should work.
Click to expand...

Don't have much experience with HDMI distributers so can't comment on that. However I do want to point a few other issues:
- You're missing the case and PSU. Believe it or not but those count as specs for a PC. So which case and PSU will you be going with?
- You chose an OEM CPU meaning that it does not come with a HSF. Are you planning on using a 3rd party HSF? If so, which one?
 
Danny Bui said:
Don't have much experience with HDMI distributers so can't comment on that. However I do want to point a few other issues:
- You're missing the case and PSU. Believe it or not but those count as specs for a PC. So which case and PSU will you be going with?
- You chose an OEM CPU meaning that it does not come with a HSF. Are you planning on using a 3rd party HSF? If so, which one?
Click to expand...

I have an old case I plan on using. It's a mid tower, a little bigger than I'd like, but will work. I may need to update the PSU. Anyone know what I'll need for this setup? I'm not sure what's in it now, but it is 8-10 years old.

I will buy an HSF. Don't know which one. Recommendations?
 
backflipper said:
I have an old case I plan on using. It's a mid tower, a little bigger than I'd like, but will work. I may need to update the PSU. Anyone know what I'll need for this setup? I'm not sure what's in it now, but it is 8-10 years old.

I will buy an HSF. Don't know which one. Recommendations?
Click to expand...

This PSU should be enough:
$55 - Corsair 400CX 400W PSU

HSF wise, I believe this HSF is quiet:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156
 
Are you planning on recording TV with the HTPC or just playing back ripped movies? If so, you can put a HTPC in each room and just share the content between each.

The 360 is pretty limited in what formats it can play back.

Do you want to record protected content (HBO/Showtime, etc)? If so you will need a cable card tuner. If not you can get an QAM tuner. YOu can then share out the recordings between PC's or use a 360 to play them back.
 
he has kids and doesnt want anything other then the tv's themselves in each room, so there are less things to be broken. he could sit 5 htpc's in the basement i suppose, but that is a wasteful thing to do to be honest.
 
you could hook up 2 or 3 HTPCs to a HDMI matrix switch
 
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krupted said:
he has kids and doesnt want anything other then the tv's themselves in each room, so there are less things to be broken. he could sit 5 htpc's in the basement i suppose, but that is a wasteful thing to do to be honest.
Click to expand...

ahh got it. You could probably zip tie a Revo to the back of the TV.
 
danman said:
Are you planning on recording TV with the HTPC or just playing back ripped movies? If so, you can put a HTPC in each room and just share the content between each.

The 360 is pretty limited in what formats it can play back.

Do you want to record protected content (HBO/Showtime, etc)? If so you will need a cable card tuner. If not you can get an QAM tuner. YOu can then share out the recordings between PC's or use a 360 to play them back.
Click to expand...

Mainly it will be used for storing our current dvd library, home movies, music, netflix, hulu, etc... I may use it to record some tv, but we're fine with our comcast dvr for now. I really don't want to build more than one HTPC.

Is it possible though, to watch a movie from the htpc on one tv, and another through the xbox's media player (that's stored on the htpc) at the same time? Or is that too much strain on the hardware?
 
krupted said:
thats what op suggested himself, but with just one htpc. you guys really need to read the whole thread before you answer!:p
Click to expand...


okay so I am not sure where you thought you had the right or need to be a dick....


I suggested using multiple low power HTPCs in a centralized location via HDMI matrix switch, like he suggested.....

and your solution to his problem was........ hoping someone hacks WMC to allow separate instances on the same PC with dedicated tuners.... WTF, like that is ever going to happen or even useful

and your other solution was a portable DVD player to take around? really ... that was a good idea? :rolleyes:





At least my idea would work, be reliable and is an actual solution for the OP's problem

backflipper said:
Is it possible though, to watch a movie from the htpc on one tv, and another through the xbox's media player (that's stored on the htpc) at the same time? Or is that too much strain on the hardware?
Click to expand...

yes with decent hardware. it is possible with correct Hardware acceleration to get this with a X2 CPU but I would recommend 4gb RAM and a x4 CPU of some sort for multiple extenders off a HTPC.

you can build HTPCs for less than a xbox360, they are less noisy and play more file types.

it is fine with me if you only want 1 but is there some obvious reason for not wanting more than 1?

Xbox360s will not playback a DVD file in either VOB or ISO, so that means transcoding and they will not play a m2ts so no HD home videos or native bluray playback again with out transcoding

a $150 HTPC will play anything you throw at it..

also you are going to want to control your xbox or HTPC with a remote not a controller. look at an addressable RF to IR remote like the harmony 890 pro, Revo Q50 or a xantec IR distribution system. Since they are going to all be using the same IR codes you need to specifiy the device you are sending the IR commands to. (if you are using a centrialize solution with a A/V distribution setup)

this way the matrix switch is handled automatically, the 890 pro allows multiple remotes to be used with the same base station and are not that expensive.
 
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adidas, relax. i wasnt being a dick and your post was a single phrase suggestion that was already said.
 
I just built a HTPC recently. The goal was to playback Mkv, or any format for that matter with little to no trouble. I was sick of the transcoding nonsense with playing wma, mkv and other formats on a PS3, I hated the interface for navigating media and I refuse to go near an XBOX 360. Anyhow, I built the computer using the following parts:
Case and PSU: Antec 2480 desktop case w/ 380Watt PSU
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core *retail*
RAM: 2x2 (4GB) GSkill DDR2
HDD: OCZ Agility 60GB SSD, Seagate 1.5GB 7200RPM.
Video: Sapphire 5770 (7.1 LPCM over HDMI)
Optical: LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray Reader SATA
Other: ASUS USB-BT21 USB 2.0 Mini Bluetooth Dongle, AVS Gear MG-IR01BK Windows Vista/Window7 MCE Infrared Remote Control, Happauge 2250 dual Hybrid ATSC/QAM tuners and FM radio.

I installed the following bits of software to enhance the experience:
Codecs: Shark007's codec pack with x64 components, unlike the CCCP codec pack, this one has proper x64 support and no further tweaking seems to be needed for application support. You can play mkv with subtitle support in Media Center x64 in Windows 7.
Media Center Plug-ins/Applications: MediaBrowser for presenting my media library in an attractive manner. It's way better than the built in Media Center library. This thing does movie backdrops, posters/coverart, movie details, actor images, trailers, media info about the files (bitrates, resolutions, etc), bookmark support(some of the skins support it, Chocolate does this).
Media Control for getting fast forward and rewind to work in mkv files, and for mapping commands for managing subtitles via remote.
MediaMaster application for downloading movie metadata, posters, trailers, actor photos, etc and organizing the media folders. It has excellent matching abilities but will prompt for an IMDB code if it is unsure of the title, it doesn't pop up very often.
Intelliremote for managing remote control profiles via application triggers so the remote works in just about anything that is running.
Media Center Studio for customizing the Media Center menu strips and commands, along with adding macro abilities.
Microsoft Security Essentials for virus and malware scanning. It works well and so far it hasn't caused any performance issues.

I have to purchase PowerDVD9 Ultra so I can get 7.1 bitstreamed Blu-Ray audio and bettter Media Center integration when playing Blu-Ray movies. Gaming works just fine with the ATI 5770 via HDMI. I get 5.1 sound (only setup 5.1 speakers), no lag, and it looks GREAT on my Panasonic 50" G10 plasma.
 
Alright, I've updated my project spreadsheet, basically mirroring the mid level intel htpc from this thread (thanks crim). I also included the home wiring I will be doing.

This is now the first phase of what I'd like to do. In this HTPC setup, I included 2 hard drives. One is 500GB, the other is 1 TB. I will run the OS and programs off the 500 GB, and store the media on the 1TB drive. Eventually, when I get some more spending money, I will build a WHS and probably move the 1 TB drive over to that along with another drive.

With this setup, I should be able to do some gaming, and have all the home theater capabilities I'm looking for. It's been about 9 years since I built a pc, so I'm looking forward to this. Once the WHS is built, I will probably buy a revo, or some other cheap HTPC that will stream media to the other room.

One of my main goals was to keep the kids (one and two years old) away from the electronic devices. So I will be keeping both the HTPC and xbox 360 in a separate room from the tv. They will be hooked into the HDMI switch, which will be wired to both our bedroom and the living room. Giving us access to them at either place.

The only issues I still need to work out, are ways to control the HDMI switch remotely (obviously an IR remote won't work through walls), and a good RF remote for the HTPC. I actually do have an ATI Remote Wonder that came with my video card from my last build. So it may work just fine. If I still have to manually switch the HDMI, that's not the worst thing in the world.

I'll give an update with pictures once I order and start the build. Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Adidas4275 said:
never tried it either, and actually that is the first time i have seen symbolic links used to get xbox360 to play a DVD.

if it is reliable then great.... if it is finicky than it is best left alone
Click to expand...

Awesome. Might be time for me to pick up a 360 then. :)

If it works....
 
pre1014 said:
I don't know if this still works and I have never tried it but.....
http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/2008/04...media-center-extenders-to-play-dvd-vob-files/
Click to expand...

Adidas4275 said:
never tried it either, and actually that is the first time i have seen symbolic links used to get xbox360 to play a DVD.

if it is reliable then great.... if it is finicky than it is best left alone
Click to expand...

CrimandEvil said:
Awesome. Might be time for me to pick up a 360 then. :)

If it works....
Click to expand...
I'll take a shot at it later today. I'm bored enough :)
 
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