Caught Spying on Student, FBI Demands GPS Tracker Back

warlock said:
I dont break the law either, but I do value my freedom, and this has a hand in taking it away. Our government its SPYING on its own citizens, and you think thats ok? I do _NOT_ think this is ok, not one bit. Something something something 1984.
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+1 This to the n-th degree.
 
ajm786 said:
This article has me particularly worried. Not because I do anything illegal or break the law, because I don't. The problem is that, just as you guys pointed out, I can be singled out JUST because of my name happens to be Arabic. I am an American, proud to be, and I love my country, but these kinds of antics seriously worry me because I can be targeted for no reason at all, and with no recourse because it's now apparently "legal" for the government to spy on me and maybe, just maybe, accuse me of something that I have no part of.

I value my freedom just as much as I value my country, and that's why this type of behavior by the government is unacceptable.
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The guy in the article was traveling back and forth to Dubai and sending money oversees to Egypt. I suspect that has more to do with him being monitored than his name or skin color.
 
Should have taken the device to the Geek Squad and asked them to fix it. :)
 
I'da smashed that thing into a million pieces and given it back to them in a box marked "Merry Christmas Assholes!"
 
Glad to see the FBI checking out leads here in the USA. What it did was 100% legal. Guy is traveling back and forth to UAE and sending money to Egypt, hell yes they should give him a look.

That said, I think the GPS device is up for grabs if you find it. Hehe. That's funny.
 
whrswoldo said:
The guy in the article was traveling back and forth to Dubai and sending money oversees to Egypt. I suspect that has more to do with him being monitored than his name or skin color.
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So if i will get a job at some IT company in USA, and i will send money to my mom/dad to Slovakia, that will be suspicious too ? Oh wait, that is reserved to the arabs only, right ? Arabs are not allowed to help their family overseas, right ? This is what you say ?
 
faugusztin said:
PS: It's legal in police state, not in democracy. If your legal system says it's legal to track anyone without search warrant, then you are unfortunately living in police state. We had this for 40 years while communists were in government, seems like you didn't learn from mistakes of the past.
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Well if you had experience in actually living here, you would KNOW it is not a police state. That statement is tremendously uninformed.
 
faugusztin said:
So if i will get a job at some IT company in USA, and i will send money to my mom/dad to Slovakia, that will be suspicious too ? Oh wait, that is reserved to the arabs only, right ? Arabs are not allowed to help their family overseas, right ? This is what you say ?
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I am sure if we have problems with Slovs killing thousands of people we will be looking into that too. Don't confuse racial profiling with profiling.
 
faugusztin said:
So if i will get a job at some IT company in USA, and i will send money to my mom/dad to Slovakia, that will be suspicious too ? Oh wait, that is reserved to the arabs only, right ? Arabs are not allowed to help their family overseas, right ? This is what you say ?
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Yes, depending on how much money you are sending. If you are sending money overseas above a specific amount your banks AML (anti money laundering) or Risk group will flag your account and submit a SAR (suspicious activity report) that will be filed with the Government.

I do not recall if Slovenia is on a watch list, but some "eastern bloc" countries are, as well as North Korea, Mexico and several Middle Eastern countries to include Egypt.

I do not like the idea of the FBI not needing a warrant to track somebody, but this case does sound legit and not just some conspiracy screaming case of Muslim profiling.

What sounds suspect is the fact the tracking device was supposedly an old "no longer used" model.
 
This reminds me of the show Covert Affairs...then I remembered a certain beach scene flashback. ;)
 
I believe the device would fall into the finders keepers category without proof of ownership. Like a sticker that says "property of" and even that would be dicey, anybody can put a sticker on anything. You would be able to hold it until proof of ownership is proven and established. Serial numbers, purchase receipts, ect. I would have taken the pictures, and sent them to every blog, and news agency I could think of. Then I would have had the device locked up, probably given it to an organization like the ACLU. Regardless of the courts ruling, placement of this device without a warrant is a violation of the individuals Constitutional rights. There are other ways to do this legally.
 
tikiman2012 said:
-snip-Regardless of the courts ruling, placement of this device without a warrant is a violation of the individuals Constitutional rights. There are other ways to do this legally.
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Actually the court ruled that it was not a violation of anyones rights. That is why it called case law. Sadly a good bit if what people scream are their rights are actually case law. I challenge you to pick the Constitution and actually read it.
 
if I was arab american I would get the hell out of america before the shit hits the fan.

it's not right how we treat them, that mosque business was ridiculous.

I wonder how many stories like this don't get reported or how many devices are left unfound.
 
clok1966 said:
What part of this story is so bad? Terrorists attacks have killed alot of people. Keeping an eye on somebody that sombody said might be a problem is the FBI's job. Now I can say "probebly" whoever said he was a problem was just an ASS looking at a certian color skin and cuasing problems.. but the FBI (or whoever) can say "who cares" and risk somthing blowing up when they where warned, or they can "check into it" and as in this case, find no problems and all is well. Except people think is horrible when the goverment tries to keep an eye on them.. Something I never understood... knowing if i have a gun, listineing to anything I say, knowing where I go.. I could give a shit less.. I dont break the law.

We all wanna be safe, but we dont want anybody knowing what we do.. just remeber not knowing what a law abiding person does is the same as not knowing waht a law breaker does.. cant have it both ways. And I'm pretty sure mind reading, knowing the future is still out of even the FBI's grasp...(maybe Im wrong and they can?).

just an opinion.
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You sound like you belong in Russia or China. Buy a ticket and get out of my country.

Freedom comes at price. A free society will always incur a higher level of risk. If you want a safe and orderly society then you should live in a totalitarian state. Our freedoms are worth the cost we pay. Any real American should not willing give up their civil liberties.

So no I do not want to be safe at the cost of my freedom. I am willing to support reasonable security measures at public institutions such as airports, bus terminals and ports but I do not and never will support spying on American citizens, secret prisons or torture. Not only do the ends not justify the means but these means always end up being used for other investigations (drugs, etc).
 
stealthy123 said:
if I was arab american I would get the hell out of america before the shit hits the fan.

it's not right how we treat them, that mosque business was ridiculous.

I wonder how many stories like this don't get reported or how many devices are left unfound.
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Psst, we have room in Canada for you because everyone or another's cousin lives here it'll be safer-ish..
 
zacrobmer said:
I do not recall if Slovenia is on a watch list
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FYI:
ce.jpg


No problem, you are not the first one mixing it (even George W. had problems with it :D) :
http://lh4.ggpht.com/lubos.motl/SCb...SH8y_xsXk/wrong-map-stops-on-bush-s-visit.jpg

@Kyle: tracking, wiretapping without a search warrant signed by judge is exactly what forms a police state, or at least a state with lesser civil liberties and police control. The reasons doesn't matter at all, once the hand of the government (which FBI/police is) can do any action against you without permissions from separate, controlling body (judges), you are heading towards police state.
What is the guarantee that tomorrow it won't be you who will be tracked, wiretapped ? Without a control mechanism (judges), there is none. And this is what is happening in your country right now.
 
faugusztin said:
FYI:
ce.jpg


No problem, you are not the first one mixing it (even George W. had problems with it :D) :
http://lh4.ggpht.com/lubos.motl/SCb...SH8y_xsXk/wrong-map-stops-on-bush-s-visit.jpg

@Kyle: tracking, wiretapping without a search warrant signed by judge is exactly what forms a police state, or at least a state with lesser civil liberties and police control. The reasons doesn't matter at all, once the hand of the government (which FBI/police is) can do any action against you without permissions from separate, controlling body (judges), you are heading towards police state.
What is the guarantee that tomorrow it won't be you who will be tracked, wiretapped ? Without a control mechanism (judges), there is none. And this is what is happening in your country right now.
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Bah fucking IPhone and it's shitastic autocomplete. I am well aware of the differance. Intersting side note, Slovakia is the only country on that map I have not been to.
 
Afifi asked, “Are you the guys that put it there?” and the agent replied, “Yeah, I put it there.” He told Afifi, “We’re going to make this much more difficult for you if you don’t cooperate.”
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My response would have been, well, I'm not giving it back and YOU'RE the ones going to be having the difficult time. People need to stand up and say we are not going to put up with this any more.
 
So that thing transmits GPS data to the feds as you drive around...

Would it be conceivable that he could've measured the signal/frequency that comes out of it and used that info to make a tracker-tracker? You could drive down the highway and see who else is being tracked.
 
warlock said:
I dont break the law either, but I do value my freedom, and this has a hand in taking it away. Our government its SPYING on its own citizens, and you think thats ok? I do _NOT_ think this is ok, not one bit. Something something something 1984.
Click to expand...

they are spying on suspected terrorists
the FBI couldnt care less about spying on the average joe
 
zacrobmer said:
Actually the court ruled that it was not a violation of anyones rights. That is why it called case law. Sadly a good bit if what people scream are their rights are actually case law. I challenge you to pick the Constitution and actually read it.
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It will get appealed.
 
Bohica69 said:
My response would have been, well, I'm not giving it back and YOU'RE the ones going to be having the difficult time. People need to stand up and say we are not going to put up with this any more.
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HAHA! Good luck with that. You can threaten them all you like, it won't make a world's difference. But they can haul you away without anyone knowing, hold you indefinitely. Then when/if they release you and you file suit, they'll just say it was in the interest of national security and drag their feet. Then years will pass and you will have given up and run out of money to retain a lawyer.

Not fair or legal, but it's true.:(
 
This is a problem, "An FBI spokesman wouldn’t acknowledge that the device belonged to the agency or that agents appeared at Afifi’s house."

Read More http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/#ixzz11nL90net

The agent claimed ownership, the FBI spokesman would not. Who to believe?

And I'm sure he would have been detained for more than a few days or weeks for not cooperating.

The burden of proof would fall on the FBI to show ownership of the tracker. That's just being thorough, albeit at the price of your own freedom in the short term.

I do agree with Kyle, I'm glad they're checking people out, they should be.

But, tampering with personal property is a whole other thing. Imagine this thing fell of the car and went through someones windshield and killed or maimed them or their kid. How would that play out? Too many variables.
 
Luthorcrow said:
Freedom comes at price. A free society will always incur a higher level of risk. If you want a safe and orderly society then you should live in a totalitarian state. Our freedoms are worth the cost we pay. Any real American should not willing give up their civil liberties.

So no I do not want to be safe at the cost of my freedom. I am willing to support reasonable security measures at public institutions such as airports, bus terminals and ports but I do not and never will support spying on American citizens, secret prisons or torture. Not only do the ends not justify the means but these means always end up being used for other investigations (drugs, etc).
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Thought about writing something thought provoking, but you said it better than I could. Instead, I'll just add... fuck yeah!
 
All in the name of National Security.

If he had called the police like we was "supposed" to do, none of this would have appeared in the news. I'm glad he got it removed without the authorities knowing. This is complete garbage that they are even allowed to do this. "Suspected Terrorist" is a bullshit phrase, since the FBI doesn't have to justify to ANYONE their suspicions. In the name of National Security.
 
eon said:
they are spying on suspected terrorists
the FBI couldnt care less about spying on the average joe
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The problem is, they have to spy on you to figure out if you are an average joe or a terrorist.
 
eddieck said:
Fuck that. If they're going to place tracking devices on my property without a warrant (and unfortunately that's legal), I'll destroy that shit when I find it. They can't have it both ways. Either get a warrant and legitimately track me or stick your shit on my property and I'll burn it/throw it in a lake/put it on someone's car/put it in the trash when I find it.
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This. I would take special pleasure in destroying anything I found on my property that looked like a tracking device, unless it has a "US GVMT PROPERTY RETURN IF FOUND RETURN TO FBI" sticker on it, its now mine and I'm paranoid. I'm either mailing it to Wikileaks or shorting those Li-Ions until nothing but a burning toxic mess is left of their device. And I would do it fast, cause I know they're on their way to retrieve it.
 
eon said:
they are spying on suspected terrorists
the FBI couldnt care less about spying on the average joe
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Today "suspected terrorists", next day "average joe". You know the story about boiling frog, right ?
 
the-one1 said:
HAHA! Good luck with that. You can threaten them all you like, it won't make a world's difference. But they can haul you away without anyone knowing, hold you indefinitely. Then when/if they release you and you file suit, they'll just say it was in the interest of national security and drag their feet. Then years will pass and you will have given up and run out of money to retain a lawyer.

Not fair or legal, but it's true.:(
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Given how I have two kids, and two ex wives, as well as other family members, hauling me away incognito would be pretty difficult to do. Also, the FIRST thing I would have done is contact the media and lawyers as soon as I found the item. Making people just disappear is harder than it sounds.
 
Steve said:
Seriously, would you even touch that thing if it was strapped to the bottom of your car? I would've let the bomb squad blow it up and let the FBI recover the ashes. ;)
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As much as I would like to think I'd smash it with a hammer, or drop it in the nearest large body of water, I think the bomb squad would be first.

thax said:
His discovery comes in the wake of a recent ruling by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals saying it’s legal for law enforcement to secretly place a tracking device on a suspect’s car without getting a warrant, even if the car is parked in a private driveway.
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Sigh...........love how we keep throwing freedom away in the guise of security.:rolleyes:
Don't forget......it's all for your own good.
 
eon said:
they are spying on suspected terrorists
the FBI couldnt care less about spying on the average joe
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i wish that was true.

MIAC report, warrantless wiretapping etc.

the average Joe is now labeled as "homegrown Terrorist" so its a very very thin line anymore.
 
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
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I guess what our founding fathers say mean nothing anymore.

Unfortunately for most idiots, you ask who Ben Franklin is, and they say that he's simply the guy on the dollar bill. :rolleyes:
 
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