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Cathode Converter Melted Itself (pics)

M

MeanieMan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
1,935
I had 6 cathodes is my case, 4 12inch and 2 4inch.

Well yesterday I noticed that one of my 4inch tubes wasn't on, so I threw the converter switches....nothing.
Turned the computer off, let it sit then turned it back on. The 4 inch tube came on for a little while, then winked out.
Opened up my case and smelled a burnt smell. Now since I have so much heatsink metal in my case I just thought it was dust and that I needed to pick up a package of canned air.
So I switched the 4inch plugs with each other since the other was working fine. After a few moments the other 4inch goes out but the first one stays on now.

So I thought AH! must be a converter problem some how.
Pulled out the converter and the smell from it hit me instantly, and then I saw this...

pdrm00011rj.jpg


pdrm00031vx.jpg


pdrm00044xk.jpg


Guess I could be happy nothing else melted. My case stays on 24/7 so I have no real way of saying when it happen.
 
Looks like the capacitor let go? Is that it's remains we're looking at there in the corner of the PCB?

Thank goodness it didn't catch fire, although it looks like it was getting ready to... :(
 
lamarth said:
Looks like the capacitor let go? Is that it's remains we're looking at there in the corner of the PCB?

Thank goodness it didn't catch fire, although it looks like it was getting ready to... :(
Click to expand...

I think it is, it was a flat round piece about the size of a necklace bead. When it went all that was left was white charcoal.
I honestly think it did catch fire for a second, its just that plastic melts instead of burning, which may have saved the rest of my computer.
 
Hey MeanieMan,

I was just wondering where you had that mounted inside your case and if you'd modified your wiring or connectors in any way.
 
Astral Abyss said:
Hey MeanieMan,

I was just wondering where you had that mounted inside your case and if you'd modified your wiring or connectors in any way.
Click to expand...


It was velcroed to the metal platform area in the bottom 5 1/4 bay, behind the frontX in this image.

Didn't modify any wires, this PSU came sleeved and this was the only converter out of the 3 that was plugged directly into it. The other two are on a Y-Splitter with the top temp display. Couldn't tell you the last time I had a random restart or freeze, this PSU has been good to me so far. No other dead hardware yet.
 
MeanieMan said:
It was velcroed to the metal platform area in the bottom 5 1/4 bay, behind the frontX in this image.

Didn't modify any wires, this PSU came sleeved and this was the only converter out of the 3 that was plugged directly into it. The other two are on a Y-Splitter with the top temp display. Couldn't tell you the last time I had a random restart or freeze, this PSU has been to me so far. No other dead hardware yet.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.

I was asking because I had to lengthen the wires on one of my 12" cathode tubes in order to get it to reach the inverter. The cathode exhibits a strange behavior now. The wires on the cathode are somehow causing interference or resistance with each other. What I mean is when I hold the wires together, the tube won't light up all the way, but when I seperate the wires, the tube lights up fine. There wires are isolated properly, I soldered the extra wire length on and heat shrunk the connections I made. Wasn't something I had expected to happen from adding a short length of wire. I know it's not the solder joint because I shortened the other tubes wiring the same way, by cutting and soldering, and it works fine. I've tried this lengthing on 2 different cathode tubes and they both do the same thing.

Anyhow, that's why I was wondering if you had made any mods to it. I'm kinda hoping mine doesn't melt on me.

It's a Coolermaster Aurora setup.
 
I'm sort of worried about that happening and killing something in my rig. Hey how do you remove the cover like that?
 
you just pull the cover off.

those CCFLs are from frozencpu right? ive had 2 go in the same way on the same capacitor. now i pulled the casing off one and put 1 inch heatshrinking around it (it was a bitch to get on, if you do this get something a tad bit bigger than 1 inch)

no problems since, but its only been about 1-1/2 - 2 months
 
Hrmm... I just installed a Nexus 3.5" light and fan controller into my case... hope mine doesn't do the same to me. *will have nightmares now*
 
4b5eN+EE said:
you just pull the cover off.

those CCFLs are from frozencpu right? ive had 2 go in the same way on the same capacitor. now i pulled the casing off one and put 1 inch heatshrinking around it (it was a bitch to get on, if you do this get something a tad bit bigger than 1 inch)

no problems since, but its only been about 1-1/2 - 2 months
Click to expand...

Yep, its frozencpu.com
The cover comes off pretty easy, just pitch the ends (thumb on one, index on other) and pull the top off.

I didn't want to bring up the name because I have had these for a couple of months, much better then the oxiode ones i order that came wired backwards, blowing the converter within seconds.
 
It's not FrozenCPU's fault. They are just using shitty Sunbeam CCFL kits is all. Lots of companies use sunbeam stuff
 
STRESSTEST said:
It's not FrozenCPU's fault. They are just using shitty Sunbeam CCFL kits is all. Lots of companies use sunbeam stuff
Click to expand...

I like the inverter that you gave me. At first I was wary about how flimsy they would be, but they actually prove to be a bit more versatile and camoflague better. :p

As for any ideas how to make sure that what happened to the OP wouldn't happen (other than buying that brand) would help me. :)
 
Astral Abyss said:
Hmmm.

I was asking because I had to lengthen the wires on one of my 12" cathode tubes in order to get it to reach the inverter. The cathode exhibits a strange behavior now. The wires on the cathode are somehow causing interference or resistance with each other. What I mean is when I hold the wires together, the tube won't light up all the way, but when I seperate the wires, the tube lights up fine. There wires are isolated properly, I soldered the extra wire length on and heat shrunk the connections I made. Wasn't something I had expected to happen from adding a short length of wire. I know it's not the solder joint because I shortened the other tubes wiring the same way, by cutting and soldering, and it works fine. I've tried this lengthing on 2 different cathode tubes and they both do the same thing.

Anyhow, that's why I was wondering if you had made any mods to it. I'm kinda hoping mine doesn't melt on me.

It's a Coolermaster Aurora setup.
Click to expand...

I bought a Vantec Nexus fan controller with two cathodes and had the same problem with the cathode wires. I wanted to sleeve them, so I put sleeving around the two wires and the cathodes were very dim. When I took the sleeving off, it worked fine. I ended up sleeving each of the two wires separately to get around the problem.

I didn't lengthen the wires or do anything other than sleeving them, so I doubt that lengthening the wires caused the problem you are having. It happened out of the box for me.
 
MegaRouge said:
I bought a Vantec Nexus fan controller with two cathodes and had the same problem with the cathode wires. I wanted to sleeve them, so I put sleeving around the two wires and the cathodes were very dim. When I took the sleeving off, it worked fine. I ended up sleeving each of the two wires separately to get around the problem.

I didn't lengthen the wires or do anything other than sleeving them, so I doubt that lengthening the wires caused the problem you are having. It happened out of the box for me.
Click to expand...
Hey that's a good idea about sleeving them seperately (I never think of simple solutions) I think I'll give that a try, since I sleeved the other cathode wires and they don't match now.
 
Youve got 6 cathodes in your case, all of which draw power like filthy whores. Lucky it didnt damage anything but i cant say im suprised something overvolted :p
 
FunkStar said:
Youve got 6 cathodes in your case, all of which draw power like filthy whores. Lucky it didnt damage anything but i cant say im suprised something overvolted :p
Click to expand...

Unless I read something wrong along the lines the 12 inch tubes are rated at 4.0W+/-0.3W.
The 4 inch tubes are of course even less. :rolleyes:

And here I was thinking it would be one of the four harddrives causing me problems.
 

:eek: :eek: It's a good thing and very lucky nothing else caught fire, and good to hear.
But now Im wondering if I should use the El Wire I bought for my build from Frozencpu.

Dre
 
Astral Abyss said:
Hmmm.

I was asking because I had to lengthen the wires on one of my 12" cathode tubes in order to get it to reach the inverter. The cathode exhibits a strange behavior now. The wires on the cathode are somehow causing interference or resistance with each other. What I mean is when I hold the wires together, the tube won't light up all the way, but when I seperate the wires, the tube lights up fine. There wires are isolated properly, I soldered the extra wire length on and heat shrunk the connections I made. Wasn't something I had expected to happen from adding a short length of wire. I know it's not the solder joint because I shortened the other tubes wiring the same way, by cutting and soldering, and it works fine. I've tried this lengthing on 2 different cathode tubes and they both do the same thing.

Anyhow, that's why I was wondering if you had made any mods to it. I'm kinda hoping mine doesn't melt on me.

It's a Coolermaster Aurora setup.
Click to expand...

There is in excess of 600 volts flowing thru those wires to the cathode. :eek: Did you use high voltage wire? Most wire we get our hands on is only rated 600 volts and a lot of the smaller hobby stuff is less than that.


You are probably seeing the dielectric insulation failing. When the wires are close together, some of the current is flowing from one wire to the other and not making it to the cathode. You my freind could wind up with similar pics of a burnt PC very soon!
 
Disarray said:
There is in excess of 600 volts flowing thru those wires to the cathode. :eek: Did you use high voltage wire? Most wire we get our hands on is only rated 600 volts and a lot of the smaller hobby stuff is less than that.


You are probably seeing the dielectric insulation failing. When the wires are close together, some of the current is flowing from one wire to the other and not making it to the cathode. You my freind could wind up with similar pics of a burnt PC very soon!
Click to expand...

The piece of wire I'm using was cut from another cathode tube, so I would sincerely hope that this wire would be acceptable.

But as Megarogue said, he had the same issue and he didn't modify the wiring at all except to sleeve it.
 
That's exactly how inverters blow. I had the same thing happen to me. Luckily nothing was hurt except the inverter.
 
qdemn7 said:
That's exactly how inverters blow. I had the same thing happen to me. Luckily nothing was hurt except the inverter.
Click to expand...

Actually I've had two inverters blow before this, and the thing that happen was the that fuse blew on those.
 
Wow, I also leave my computer on 24/7 like so many do. However, I think after seeing that I will be turning my cold cathode lights off when I am away from my computer just in case. Regardless of the reason or way it happened I would just assume it not happen to me anytime soon. Thanks for the heads up!
 
I got a very similar (if no the same) product in my case when I bought it, but then I saw some pictures that scared me shitless. They were on here a number of months ago, where one has absolutely gutted the guys PC :( You got lucky!
 
That happened to my inverter a few days ago. Cooler Master. Crappy things! Is there a way to prevent that? Maybe removing the inverter's casing and then putting a small fan in front of it? Will that help?
 
and that's why I only run my ccfl's for a few hours at a time. :) whew... it's good to keep some air on those toasty little ballasts (pow sup), if you do want to run them 24/7... but they are just cheaply made and burn out like that pretty easily.

Glad nothing shorted or caught fire!

PS: you can get them from xoxide stand-alone without the bulbs.
 
Keeping it cool usually does help, I have a Chieftec Dragon Mid- Tower and I melted an inverter when i had it sitting on the bottom all the way back, I now have 2 inverters sitting towards the front so that intake air is hitting them, and they have survived longer than the other one, so yes, keeping them cool would definately help.
 
I see. Okay. That's what I'll do on my next inverter. Take it out of its casing and then place it in front of the front intake fan. Let's see what happens. :eek:
 
For a capacitor to fail in such a fashion, it needs to a) work at higher than rated temperatures, b) be subjected to one or more surges, c) be faulty, and short out, or d) a combination of these factors.

What voltage and ampere ratings does that side of the transformator have, and what are (were) the ratings on that cap?
 
Astral Abyss said:
Hmmm.

I was asking because I had to lengthen the wires on one of my 12" cathode tubes in order to get it to reach the inverter. The cathode exhibits a strange behavior now. The wires on the cathode are somehow causing interference or resistance with each other. What I mean is when I hold the wires together, the tube won't light up all the way, but when I seperate the wires, the tube lights up fine. There wires are isolated properly, I soldered the extra wire length on and heat shrunk the connections I made. Wasn't something I had expected to happen from adding a short length of wire. I know it's not the solder joint because I shortened the other tubes wiring the same way, by cutting and soldering, and it works fine. I've tried this lengthing on 2 different cathode tubes and they both do the same thing.

Anyhow, that's why I was wondering if you had made any mods to it. I'm kinda hoping mine doesn't melt on me.

It's a Coolermaster Aurora setup.
Click to expand...

You have to use special kynar wire from memory to extend the cathode or it will exhibit the behavior you describe. :)
 
hignaki said:
I've had this happen before? Sunbeam CC, I assume?
Click to expand...

Yes! me too, I haven't had any problems with my Cooler master and Ultra CC's.
 
hopefully i won't be flamed for bringing back an old thread (better than starting a new one if you ask me...) but this just happened to me too. i have the exact same inverter as the one in the pic on the first post which was purchased from frozencpu.com about a year and a half ago. needless to say, i got seriously freaked out. i did mod mine by extending the wires using 22 AWG 300V solid wire. is this wire insufficient? i didn't even think about it when i bought it because the guy that sold it to me said it would be sufficient for what i was doing. should i just leave well enough alone and get rid of the cathode tubes? i have a 510W PC P&C power supply. could this have happened because my 4 pin ATX cable wasn't plugged in for some time without my knowledge?
 
Astral Abyss said:
Hmmm.

I was asking because I had to lengthen the wires on one of my 12" cathode tubes in order to get it to reach the inverter. The cathode exhibits a strange behavior now. The wires on the cathode are somehow causing interference or resistance with each other. What I mean is when I hold the wires together, the tube won't light up all the way, but when I seperate the wires, the tube lights up fine. There wires are isolated properly, I soldered the extra wire length on and heat shrunk the connections I made. Wasn't something I had expected to happen from adding a short length of wire. I know it's not the solder joint because I shortened the other tubes wiring the same way, by cutting and soldering, and it works fine. I've tried this lengthing on 2 different cathode tubes and they both do the same thing.

Anyhow, that's why I was wondering if you had made any mods to it. I'm kinda hoping mine doesn't melt on me.

It's a Coolermaster Aurora setup.
Click to expand...

I can tell you why you're cathodes exhibit "wierd" behavior. It has to do with extending the AC side of the wires for your cathode.
 
I realize this is old but this happens wayyyy too often. Someone needs to speak to the right people about this problem. I generally drill larger holes in the top of the inverter so there's more airflow in there.

I've had a few cathodes get so hot they just melt the adhesive that holds the plastic tube around them. That's cheap engineering for ya.....These should be made properly.
 
Levell0rd said:
I can tell you why you're cathodes exhibit "wierd" behavior. It has to do with extending the AC side of the wires for your cathode.
Click to expand...
But what should I do about it? Should I even worry about it if I don't mind that it's dim? It's been like that a year and a half now...
 
STRESSTEST said:
It's not FrozenCPU's fault. They are just using shitty Sunbeam CCFL kits is all. Lots of companies use sunbeam stuff
Click to expand...

Oh crap, I got my CCFLs from CoolerGuys and they look just like those too!
Luckily I only turn my CCFLs on when I am showing off the computer.
Other than that they stay off. The LED Fans are bright enough for everyday use.
 
Disarray said:
There is in excess of 600 volts flowing thru those wires to the cathode. :eek: Did you use high voltage wire? Most wire we get our hands on is only rated 600 volts and a lot of the smaller hobby stuff is less than that.


You are probably seeing the dielectric insulation failing. When the wires are close together, some of the current is flowing from one wire to the other and not making it to the cathode. You my freind could wind up with similar pics of a burnt PC very soon!
Click to expand...

It's not actually a current leakage that's dimming it. It's an actual reduction of current flow in the circuit due to increased impedance. What's happening is that the parallel wires with insulation act as a very small capacitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor

The longer the wires are near each other, the higher value of capacitor it becomes. This capacitor across the leads combined with the resistance of the CCFL becomes a low pass filter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_pass_filter

Unfortunately, the inverter for the CCFLs is a high frequency unit. The frequency at which the filter operates is dependent on the value of the capacitance. The more capacitance, the lower the frequency. If the capacitance becomes too high, the cutoff frequency moves lower than the frequency of the inverter, resulting in increased impedance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance

Higher impedance results in lower current flow, which means less power to the CCFL and less light.
 
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