qft and prepare to be flamed
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Catalyst 8.12
- Thread starter alg7_munif
- Start date
qft and prepare to be flamed
I can install the 8.10's on the first try but can't the 8.12's on here, hmmm...
Blaming peoples' computers is the easy way out here folks. There are just TOO many people on the net with this same issue for it to be a problem with the computer. There is a problem with ati's drivers and some other piece of code that nobody has figured out yet but ati's drivers are the ones responsible for causing the bsod. Only a complete moron would still be spouting the party line of "it must be your computer and not ati" at this point. The problem is just too well documented. It's like trying to say that cigarettes don't cause cancer....
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
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And there's even more posts about Nvidia drivers, granted they do have a larger market share. Then there is the problems with MB drivers, soundcard drivers, program conflicts, game bugs, memory compatibility problems, OS bugs, bad sectors on harddrive, heat issues, power issues (from dimm voltage to insufficiant or unstable supply of power) etc.
Only a complete moron would be still spouting out the party line of "drivers sucks", taking it for granted that all the issues are driver related and none of the above apply to their otherwise perfect computer setups...
(I'm saying this in a bit tone of humor, so please don't take it offensive). Facts are as following:
If two persons have the same GFX card and the same game. One of them are having issues (saying drivers suck), while the other doesn't. Both are using the same driver set.
Now, the person who has issues have two choices:
1. Go into a forum and whine about how the drivers suck.
2. Try to figure out what differs from the setups.
Already from the above we know following:
Drivers + card works and there are no issues inbetween those two. The person without issues can confirm this.
What we then need to figure out is why doesn't it work for both? There is really no point in shouting shitty drivers if the error is caused by a faulty memory module or hardware conflicts.
In my opinion (and I speak in general), a person who only comes into every thread shouting "drivers suck" and doesn't ask for help to solve the problem is either:
a) Fustrated, but too stupid to ask for help.
b) Haven't got the foggiest idea of computers and just whine about the closest he can find
c) Is just a troll spreading fud about some hardware for some reason.
A person who says "drivers suck" and actually ask for help figuring out if drivers really is the problem or something else, is fustrated, but smart enough to try to solve the problems.
Going from ATI to Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI just because you think that drivers are better on each side is plainly stupid. Then please ask me and I can show you a lot of people who have problems with Nvidia or ATI. Its better to figure out first what the problem REALLY is IMHO.
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And there's even more posts about Nvidia drivers, granted they do have a larger market share. Then there is the problems with MB drivers, soundcard drivers, program conflicts, game bugs, memory compatibility problems, OS bugs, bad sectors on harddrive, heat issues, power issues (from dimm voltage to insufficiant or unstable supply of power) etc.
...
A person who says "drivers suck" and actually ask for help figuring out if drivers really is the problem or something else, is fustrated, but smart enough to try to solve the problems.
Going from ATI to Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI just because you think that drivers are better on each side is plainly stupid. Then please ask me and I can show you a lot of people who have problems with Nvidia or ATI. Its better to figure out first what the problem REALLY is IMHO.
I think I get your point, but there is a significant number of people with specific configurations that are having issues. In addition, given some of your reasoning, above, I would assume you would follow:
Take a perfectly working system
Change Drivers
Get Broken system
= Drivers at fault.
Because that's what I ran into when going from 8.9's to any subsequent revision.
As a result, I changed hardware (I'm selling my 4850's) to a GTX260, and all the problems went away.
Thus:
Perfectly working system (hardware is good)
+ drivers
= broken system
-hardware
+hardware + drivers
= working system
=Drivers at fault.
There is no other conclusion that can be made. Basic troubleshooting says that if you change one thing and problems arise, the issue probably lies with what you changed.
I understand what you are saying in regards to with the preponderance of threads that jump to the driver conclusion without any thought, but these ATi card issues are definitely linked to the drivers, especially with those on Intel chipsets, 4850's in CF and Vista 64.
PS, what makes you think it's NOT the drivers?
He's just being a troll, don't feed him. We all know nvidia has their share of problems too. These fanboys come in here thinking they have to defend the honor of company A when they feel that someone is bashing them. The truth is that we aren't bashing ati. We are just simply using fact to say that their drivers have major issues under certain circumstances and that MANY people are duplicating the problem. Stop taking things so personal. You can't open a thread any more about driver problems without 2 or 3 of the same guys jumping in and turning it into a slugfest about it's a pc issue vs a company issue. We just want the $h1t to work!!! It's getting old guys and you all know who you are.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
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I don't know what to say anymore, someone has posted a solution but instead of using the solution, you did it your own way after saying that the driver SHOULD work even if you just install the latest driver over the old one without uninstalling the old driver. I don't care what the driver SHOULD do but since now you are having problems, the driver obviously didn't do what it SHOULD do on your system.
Instead of bitching about the "driver sucks", why don't you just uninstall the old driver and try the solution posted by 123Lanoix because many people who have this problem are able to get their systems working with the method posted by 123Lanoix. Why didn't you try the solution posted by 123Lanoix? It is that hard to accept that someone else has found a better solution than you?
Instead of bitching about the "driver sucks", why don't you just uninstall the old driver and try the solution posted by 123Lanoix because many people who have this problem are able to get their systems working with the method posted by 123Lanoix. Why didn't you try the solution posted by 123Lanoix? It is that hard to accept that someone else has found a better solution than you?
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Well, that would be a good point, but I did try that method. No dice.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
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Too bad it doesn't work for you but I didn't refer the last post to you, I was refering to this:
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
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Thanks for understanding that. It makes it easier to discuss then.
I agree that during basic troubleshooting, if you change something and a fault appears, its an indication that fault arrised from what you changed. However, its just a starting point in troubleshooting. There might have been existing incompatibilities that got exposed upon as example a driver change.
Let me illustrate. I had a motherboard similar to yours (P5B vanilla version). With it, I bought also an 8600GT. During the time i had those two cards, I experienced game freeze and other errors. How severe depended on drivers as in your case. During troubleshooting, I found that this motherboard had issues with two parts: Jmicron and on-board audio. Jmicron didn't effect the freezing in my case, but disabling the on-board audio removed the problem. When I bought a 3870X2 at a later stage, I could use the onboard audio without freeze.
This leaves me with three choices at least: Blame the MB and its drivers, or blame the GFX and its drivers. Third choice would be to blame the compatibility between those two. Since the GFX worked with onboard sound on other motherboards without issues and I got sound through an X-fi card instead, the compatibility of my motherboard was my greatest issue and therefore a change of motherboard would remove those issues for me.
You changed GFX card to resolve your issues. I changed GFX card because I wanted a new one and changed sound card due to my issues with the MB.
So, in a way, we both used the same starting point. You focused on the GFX drivers, while I focused on the on-board sound.
The thing about basic troubleshooting is that its basic. It would be too simple to say that "I changed XXX, error occured, so XXX is the cause".
Lets say you change memory configuration from 2 banks 1GB to 4 banks 1GB. Crash occur. Crash shouldn't occur, right? Must be something wrong with the memory chips? Lets say you bought Corsair memory and exchanged them for Crucial. Now everything works. Conclution: Corsair memory sucks! Right? Wrong. What can have gone wrong is as following:
The power draw changes when using 4 banks instead of 2. Voltage is often different from memory type to memory type. The crashes could have been resolved by just altering the memory voltage by 0.1 in bios. Its not given that there were anything wrong with the memory, but rather the motherboards compatibility to different memory voltage when all 4 banks are used.
Same goes with GFX cards. Some have gotten more stability by changing the PCI-E mhz, especially when overclocking on certain MB's. Others have had more luck with certain cards, because they were more compatible with the motherboards PCI-E settings.
I've seen people blaming their screens for errors, while it was the support of DDC/CI in drivers that caused the error. In the mixed soup of hardware people have, errors can be caused by numerous things. Jumping the gun and blaming GFX drivers without proper investigation like some do, doesn't fix or pinpoint the errors. Not even if the errors are solved by changing the part. It might have been caused by compatibility issues of other hardware or software installed. Especially in those cases where not everyone gets the same error.
Because not everyone gets your problem. If the drivers work with other peoples setup and not yours, I would first investigate what differs from your setup to theirs. If the drivers were incompatible with a 4850 crossfire setup, shouldn't everyone get those problems then?
New drivers can alter powerdraw both from PSU and over PCI-E. More strain on CPU, more heat etc. Having old chipset drivers with new GFX drivers might not be the best thing either. If your MB, PSU, Cabinet etc. cannot handle those changes automatically, then there might a solution if you manage to pinpoint what exactly differed between the driver versions vs. your own system. Since it works on others who have 4850CF, you need to see what makes your system incompatible with versions newer then 8.9.
This became a bit long, but I hope its a good answer for you.
Tamlin_WSGF
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You really should be carefull with calling people trolls and fanboys. I really hope this wasn't directed at me for your sake.
People are trying to both help you and tell you that there can be multiple causes to a problem. When I look at your post history, you have done much complaining but little to actually trying to pinpoint the cause of your problems. If you really want things to work, may I suggest a little less whining and perhaps a bit more asking for help with your issues? Or do you really think entering thread after thread complaining magically fixes your issues (if you really have them)?
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Thanks for understanding that. It makes it easier to discuss then.
...
...
...
This became a bit long, but I hope its a good answer for you.
Your logic is good. As is your point.
This is where I unnecessarily flame you because you're right, lol.
I guess that at the end of the day it ultimately doesn't really matter, which is what makes the rude conversations laughable. I have a problem with setup X. It's not going to work right any time soon (ATi has not spoken up on these issues, and if it's a compatibility with a mobo driver, Asus driver cycles are LONG, and if it's hardware, I'm SOL), so changing the hardware is the final solution.
I love my motherboard, and I won't be changing it until my system is replaced, but I must say, there must have been a good bottleneck introduced from the 16x/4x pci-e config on it, as I am getting MUCH better performance from the GTX260 I replaced them with. The extra frame buffer (512->896) helps too.
s3rvb0t
[H]ard|Gawd
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Using 8.12 with a single 4850. Works perfect.
Never had a single problem with any ATI driver release.
Never had a single problem with any ATI driver release.
Ed Blown Vert
Limp Gawd
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I still can't get them installed. Had to go back to 8.11
I even tried just loading the driver.
I even tried just loading the driver.
ITSTHINKING
[H]ard|Gawd
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Well look next his name, and you can see what happens when you aren't carefull.
Tonight when I get home I am going to download the new drivers and see how I do. I am going to try the installing over the top method. Thats what I did with the 8.11 drivers, usually I don't do it that way but it worked perfect last time. (crosses fingers)
CaptainSoble
Limp Gawd
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50% Act 2 in Far Cry 2, drivers are very good thus far in this game.
I have a single 4870. I simply downloaded 8.12 and ran the installation to upgrade from 8.11. I didn't do any uninstalling, driver cleaning, service stopping or anything else, and it seems to work just fine. I've had issues with ATI drivers, but none of them have anything to do with the upgrade process itself.
Here's hoping I didn't just whammy myself
Here's hoping I didn't just whammy myself
crzyhrse50
Weaksauce
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my single 4870 installed with no issues.
I tried to run in xfire mode with a 4850 and had a hard time getting it to work, I finally have it working but the performance is horrible.
I went from 10,000 in vantage to 8,700
I tried to run in xfire mode with a 4850 and had a hard time getting it to work, I finally have it working but the performance is horrible.
I went from 10,000 in vantage to 8,700
soulesschild
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I would really like to know WHO THE FUCK FUCKING let 8.12 and 8.11 pass the Microsoft standard shit. Spent 3 hours trying to get 8.12 to install cuz of all the performance boost and I find out there's tons of people with issues on Vista X64. At least give us a fucking hot fix or some shit. Don't make it fucking rocket science that I have to boot into safe mode and disable this and that to get it to work sorta. God.
/rant, I still love my CF 4850s and can't wait to upgrade to a 4870x2 or maybe the next generation.
/rant, I still love my CF 4850s and can't wait to upgrade to a 4870x2 or maybe the next generation.
YeuEmMaiMai
Extremely [H]
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maybe you should downclock your system?
Tamlin_WSGF
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Your logic is good. As is your point.
This is where I unnecessarily flame you because you're right, lol.
Lol! Thanks.
I've done troubleshooting for years upon years now, both professionally, privately and in forums. You are so right. Whatever works is the important thing. As you did with changing cards and I did with changing sound card in my days of P5B.
Seems like everything worked out to the better.
Perhaps the 16x/4x might even have been an compatibility issue with the drivers. I know that ATI have improved AFR in order to reduce microstuttering that occurs in dual card/GPU setups. At the same time, it seems like FSB are playing a big role in CF for optimal use. Perhaps its a bandwidth bottleneck or the 16X/4X doesn't play well compared to 16X/16X or 8X/8X on 4850CF? I'm a tinker, so I am even tempted to buy such setup just for the challange.
ITSTHINKING said:
Lol! I think he should have been more careful.
If you are going to install on top, at least make sure that UAC is off. I've seen that people might have issues installing because its on.
Also, check that you actually have the last driver revision after install.
Best of luck.
There is a problem with installation of these drivers. It seems to be related to crossfire or x2 cards. There are many reports of this, even on AMD's forums.
In my case, I have a perfectly functioning Vista 32 installation with 4870x2 and 8.11 drivers. When I try to install 8.12 drivers, the installation finishes ok, but, after reboot, one of the GPU cores is disabled with a code 43 error. If I then re-install 8.11 drivers everything works ok again. I would say it is quite reasonable to conclude that there is a problem with the drivers. It also brings into question the quality of AMD/ATI's QA, since this is a big problem and is happening with many people; it is hard to believe they have never encountered this problem during testing.
In my case, I have a perfectly functioning Vista 32 installation with 4870x2 and 8.11 drivers. When I try to install 8.12 drivers, the installation finishes ok, but, after reboot, one of the GPU cores is disabled with a code 43 error. If I then re-install 8.11 drivers everything works ok again. I would say it is quite reasonable to conclude that there is a problem with the drivers. It also brings into question the quality of AMD/ATI's QA, since this is a big problem and is happening with many people; it is hard to believe they have never encountered this problem during testing.
Tamlin_WSGF
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I recently got the 4870x2, so I went from 8.10 on CD to 8.12. Now, I don't use windows UAC, so I don't get issues with that. What I discovered upon my installation was as following:
After using uninstall program from 8.10, vista loaded the drivers still (8.54 set of drivers) after reboot before I installed the 8.12. Therefore, I went into device manager and manually changed the 4870x2 drivers vista installed into standard VGA drivers and rebooted. Then, after restart, vista still had standard vga drivers, so I could continue installing without risiking old drivers being stuck in device manager. 8.12 works perfectly on my machine (I'm not completely satisified with stream, but thats another case).
After using uninstall program from 8.10, vista loaded the drivers still (8.54 set of drivers) after reboot before I installed the 8.12. Therefore, I went into device manager and manually changed the 4870x2 drivers vista installed into standard VGA drivers and rebooted. Then, after restart, vista still had standard vga drivers, so I could continue installing without risiking old drivers being stuck in device manager. 8.12 works perfectly on my machine (I'm not completely satisified with stream, but thats another case).
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Seems like everything worked out to the better.
I'm a tinker, so I am even tempted to buy such setup just for the challange.
Who knows. This board has been great ever since I got it, and OC's like a dream. I knwo that there were some P5B's open box at microcenter the other day, but way overpriced.... Now it's off to ebay my 4850's.
(Anyone who wants the link, PM me)
CaptainSoble
Limp Gawd
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It's not hard to believe because there are a lot of members here who have installed
8.12 drivers just fine. I have a 4870x2. And installing these wasn't rocket science like
some of the members would have you believe.I wonder if I should create a vid and show you
guys how to install these drivers, seriously.
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Do you REALLY think there is a way to screw up a driver install?
Download
2x click on icon
Hit next a bunch of times.
CaptainSoble
Limp Gawd
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I hope not. I could show different ways to install the drivers with driver sweeper, etc. though.
Just want to show the few that are having trouble that it is possible
Just want to show the few that are having trouble that it is possible
Yes, the drivers work for many people but there are also very many complaints from people for whom they did not work. It probably depends on system configuration and what other devices are installed. However, a good QA department will have a wide range of machines to test the drivers on. My machine is nothing special, an P45 chipset (Asus P5Q), 4GB of memory, Creative X-Fi and 4870x2 and yet the drivers do not work. 8.11 drivers did work, so it is obviously some change ATI has introduced in the latest driver that is causing the problem.
By the way, I am a network driver developer myself so I am well versed in various ways of driver installation. The drivers do install properly, the problem happens during the loading of the driver for one GPU core, and it is probably something to do with resource allocation. I've had a look at System Event Log but have not noticed anything unusual.
Tamlin_WSGF
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I have a Asus P5Q, Corsair 620W, Q9550@stock for the moment, Corsair Dominator TWIN2X4096-8500C5D,Gainward 4870X2 "Golden Sample", Vista 64.
I also have an X-FI card, but didn't install it yet (I'm testing out the temps of the 3 slot cooler which the "golden sample" have). No issues with installing drivers. May I suggest to try without the X-FI and see what happens?
I also have an X-FI card, but didn't install it yet (I'm testing out the temps of the 3 slot cooler which the "golden sample" have). No issues with installing drivers. May I suggest to try without the X-FI and see what happens?
I don't know why people have problems with 8.12 install. My rig is in my sig.
This is what I did step by step.
Uninstall the 8.11 driver in normal vista 64
Boot in safe mode and use driver cleaner to clear out ALL ATI drivers
Boot in normal mode and install the driver first --> restart --> installl CCC --> restart
now enjoying fallout 3.
This is what I did step by step.
Uninstall the 8.11 driver in normal vista 64
Boot in safe mode and use driver cleaner to clear out ALL ATI drivers
Boot in normal mode and install the driver first --> restart --> installl CCC --> restart
now enjoying fallout 3.
killerbobjr
Limp Gawd
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For those of you getting a Code 43 error with the 8.12 drivers on a Vista x64 system, please read below:
The 8.12 driver seems to have a memory addressing bug for any installed memory above 4GB. You have to set the maximum memory Vista can use to 4GB. To do this in Vista x64 -
1. Start "msconfig" (without the quotes) from the Run menu under the Start button.
2. Click the Boot tab, then the Advanced options button.
3. Make sure Maximum memory is checked and set the value to 4096, then click OK.
4. Click OK again, then reboot.
This causes Vista to utilize only 4GB and to ignore the rest and allows the 8.12 driver to work. This is obviously a temporary fix until ATI releases a hot patch to fix the problem. (Keep a note to yourself somewhere to uncheck the setting when you update the driver).
The 8.12 driver seems to have a memory addressing bug for any installed memory above 4GB. You have to set the maximum memory Vista can use to 4GB. To do this in Vista x64 -
1. Start "msconfig" (without the quotes) from the Run menu under the Start button.
2. Click the Boot tab, then the Advanced options button.
3. Make sure Maximum memory is checked and set the value to 4096, then click OK.
4. Click OK again, then reboot.
This causes Vista to utilize only 4GB and to ignore the rest and allows the 8.12 driver to work. This is obviously a temporary fix until ATI releases a hot patch to fix the problem. (Keep a note to yourself somewhere to uncheck the setting when you update the driver).
8.12 caused my computer to shit it's pants. Worked fine for gaming and everything, but anytime I tried to watch live TV in media center it would cause a driver error and "successfully recover." It would then happen every so often and was overall not usable.
Back to 8.10 and everything is fine and dandy again. Vista Ultimate 32bit, clean installs involving safe mode, driver cleaner, driver sweeper, and lots of rebooting.
Maybe I will try again when the next version comes out. Until now I am waiting it out.
Anyone else have any media center issues?
Back to 8.10 and everything is fine and dandy again. Vista Ultimate 32bit, clean installs involving safe mode, driver cleaner, driver sweeper, and lots of rebooting.
Maybe I will try again when the next version comes out. Until now I am waiting it out.
Anyone else have any media center issues?
InCogneato
[H]ard|Gawd
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this driver has worked wonders for me. best one so far by a mile.
I have a Asus P5Q, Corsair 620W, Q9550@stock for the moment, Corsair Dominator TWIN2X4096-8500C5D,Gainward 4870X2 "Golden Sample", Vista 64.
I also have an X-FI card, but didn't install it yet (I'm testing out the temps of the 3 slot cooler which the "golden sample" have). No issues with installing drivers. May I suggest to try without the X-FI and see what happens?
Removing the X-Fi card did not fix the problem. However, I did a clean installation of Vista on my second hard disk and that works with 8.12. My main hard disk installation does not work and for the life of me I cannot figure out what the difference is, since I installed everything the same on the second hard disk.
The problem is to do with "ATI External Event" service, as soon as that is started, there is a display driver crash and the second card is disabled.Without this service, the drivers will load but 3D does not work. This is different from 8.11, where I can disable the service and the drivers still work.
At this point I think only ATI can fix this, obviously there was a change in 8.12 that is causing problems on some Windows installations. By the way, limiting memory (with msconfig) did not make any difference