Can You Detect When Ray Tracing Is Turned On?

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    UFD Tech on YouTube ran a blind test to see if the studio guys could tell the difference in real-time ray tracing being set to on, off, low or ultra. Each of the 4 guys played Battlefield V in single player with various levels of ray tracing set by another person and they had to explain what they were seeing. It was interesting when they got to the snow map and they had to really search the environment and stare at branches to tell the level of ray tracing.


    Can You EVEN See Ray Tracing?
     
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  2. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just look at the performance hit, then you'll know "it's on".
     
  3. Exercate

    Exercate Limp Gawd

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    Can you tell the difference between 4K and 8K??? My wallet sure can ... same thing with those expensive vid cards.
     
  4. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    Amateurs. I wouldn't even have to look at the screen to tell if ray tracing is on...I could tell because my wallet would be much thinner and lighter. :p
     
  5. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    When it runs like shit its a good indicator. Especially on the 8gb cards.
     
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  6. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    id love to see an [H] blind test article on this exact subject...would make good reading for sure;)
     
  7. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Dangit, everyone ninja'ed what I was gonna post.:oops:
     
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  8. HAL_404

    HAL_404 Limp Gawd

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    if it was a blind test how were they able to see the images :rolleyes:
     
  9. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Braille monitor duh
     
  10. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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  11. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    Well. It's a first step of hopefully significant evolution. Also, Cagey has been posting a heck of a lot of news today. Huzzah! Get that bonus (read: chicken dinner)!
     
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  12. iamjanco

    iamjanco Limp Gawd

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    Ray tracing? Of course you can see it. They were doing that back in the '50s.

     
  13. joobjoob

    joobjoob Gawd

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    Time to buy a new monitor that supports g-braile. Free-braile is an inferior implementation.
     
  14. Nytegard

    Nytegard 2[H]4U

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    The snow level, it makes sense. There isn't really that much reflection. When you had puddles though, pretty much two of them instantly knew there was ray tracing due to the clipping that occurred with it off. Is it worth the hit in performance? Maybe not today. But the lack of visual artifacts that come with faking 3D graphics is one of the things that makes ray tracing worth it in my opinion.
     
  15. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Great format, wish I would have thought of it first. ;)



    Seriously, I love to see this being done, I wish he would have just bought beer and pizza and got a better and bigger group in.
     
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  16. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Can anyone temper their hate anymore? Just cause its nvidia doesnt mean that it's not a good thing. Broken as hell right now but give me a first gen technology without flaw. AMD fans should be happy nvidia is crapping the bed this first go around, Su just said they are working on their solution and have a test subject to observe to avoid failure!
     
  17. surfhick reborn

    surfhick reborn [H]Lite

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    Yes! Well maybe the opposite. I can tell when it isn't on. NEVER! At least on my machine.
     
  18. Teenyman45

    Teenyman45 2[H]4U

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    If I had seen this story before your post I would have made a sarcastic "sponsored by AMD" comment in the thread.
     
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  19. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Experiential real world testing is fun.
     
  20. Teenyman45

    Teenyman45 2[H]4U

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    We've secretly replaced these four gamers' GPU with Folger's crystals. Let's see if they can tell the difference.
     
  21. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you cant see why Nvidia has been bashed lately, then you just have not been looking at all lately. If this was true Ray Tracing then this question wouldn't even need to be asked but they gutted (optimized) what it does so people could get some frame rates. DLSS is still a no show even tho Nvidia insisted it would be easy to implement., so yeah most owners just have a lighter wallet rather then a feature they paid for. The best part is the high failure rate that was thrown in as a free bonus for owners as well. AMD is using their heads and delivering and thats what you want, expensive empty promises not so much. To be honest I am shocked AMD released the Vega VII but that shows you they care about the gaming market and they are sacrificing profit to do so. At least now it looks like you have options for playing at 4K, where you didn't before.
     
  22. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    The paperclip seems to be holding up well, only time will tell. . .
     
  23. WBurchnall

    WBurchnall 2[H]4U

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    I would like to see it done with off and ultra high levels of the various types of AI and then had them pick the best image.
     
  24. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

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    It would probably end up like the freesync vs gsync where nobody really knew the difference.

    And.....I posted before I saw Kyle's post.
     
  25. Ski

    Ski Gawd

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    Let me test you ray tracing rookies. Which one is real and which one is fake?

    0ab78d74371519.5c2ddcff38f09.jpg

    00a6f169016821.5b71db8436e1e.jpg
     
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  26. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Honestly I think if everyone is truly honest with themselves. Yes it looks nice when you sit there and see flashy demos but in games its all about perception. I honestly don't think it would be ground braking for me.

    I watched it the other day and it is so true. Even though they could look for it and guess at the end of the day none of them really cared too much for it lol. I think reflections are hard to tell when you are actually paying attention to the gameplay more then the walls.
     
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  27. Evil

    Evil Gawd

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    Yeah, perhaps if the Nvidia cards with Ray Tracing didn't cost as much as they do, and actually performed what they are hyping them up for, then perhaps I would care more about Nvidia's new RTX line that imo, is ridiculously overpriced for the performance.
     
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  28. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    The truth is, RT is a gimmick and will be for the next 12 to 24. The performance for RT will also be low for at least the next 24 months in terms of playability at 1440p or 4K high / ultra settings. Will we see games that use RT? Of course, but we are talking single digit titles with low performance. This is the logic behind my prediction.

    AMD is at least 2 years or longer away from RT ... at which point nVidia will be 2nd generation and very possibly going into 3rd gen around 2022. It's possibly AMD has been working on RT for a few years now. Who knows.

    So when game companies green light a game idea, take it to storyboard and then to early development the project then faces a budget phase. This is where RT suffers. A lot less companies are going to budget for RT due to early / low adoption. While libraries can do some of the lifting, they still have to hire people specially for RT tasks. I'm guessing that RT will be in a chaotic phase for the next 12 / 24 months.

    Smart money would be on ... not expecting anything out of RT for a long while.

    Long story short? There is nothing really here to see and or consider.

    Me personally, I am looking forward to a heavy RT rich gaming experience in the next 3 or so years, hopefully. RT on low settings at this stage in the game is so minuscule.

    In a lot of ways, RT is a lot like the early days of hardware acceleration ... it took a good long while before it became mainstream.

    nVidia is an easy target due to their pricing but we are damn lucky to have them. Their success and eventual leadership in this market has afforded them the ability to developed RT, AI, etc etc. Without the higher pricing, would we have RT? It's kinda like taxes. People don't want to pay some taxes but they enjoy their Police and Fire Depts, etc as an example. One makes the other possible.

    Honestly, the best choices out there right now in terms of price and performance and 24 month longevity would be the 1070 ti, the 1080 and 1080 ti hands down. I'm pretty damn sure most of you guys can pick up a used 1080 ti for $500 if you make any sort of effort.
     
  29. alamox

    alamox Gawd

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    I dont have rtx card , but from the videos I can distinctly see some of the lighting artifacts that results from ray tracing in BF5
     
  30. Formula.350

    Formula.350 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I like this game heh I think, if you're serious about it, you should PM the people and keep the answer out of the thread for a bit.
    For the record: I have watched zero videos on RT, and only read [H] reviews on the RTX cards, but when it comes to "is it real, or is it fake" I generally can tell with ease.

    My initial guess, before seeing the second image, was that the first was fake. But! I was anticipating the second to be a duplicate of that image, and I'd be judging it that way... lol
    After seeing the second my final answer is:
    First is real.
    Second is fake. (either entirely, or in part, but yea)

    For the record though, I want to say both are fake. :p That metallic marble makes me feel it's real; however, that damn matte-yellow one makes me feel like it's fake... :shifty: (That, and the whole cliche setup of Fruit and Marbles for a graphics demo, but I tried to sideline that thought.)
    This was a good test, for me at least. (y) Fairly confident in my choices, but I'm still worried I'm wrong even with my self-proclaimed keen eye.
     
  31. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

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    If it had been a new card with tracing AND higher fps then I would have been on board. That sums up my spending hesitation.
     
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  32. Gottfried Leibnizzle

    Gottfried Leibnizzle Limp Gawd

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    This all reminds me of the DX10 hate and FUD during the Far Cry heydays. Where did we end up? That's right, all of those features are now taken for granted.

    It's no different to when pixel shading techniques were introduced - few games supported it, the perf hit was substantial unless you had top notch gear. How about tessellation? I don't see anyone pissing their pants about what is essentially the exact same dynamic. How about VR? Yup - the technology and ecosystem are about as mature as a 4chan shitfest and we've had it hyped up and been fed bullshit about it ever since a retard fired up a lawnmower.

    Real time Raytracing has forever been the holy grail of graphics. Can we not be thankful that it is finally a reality? It's stupendous, for fuck's sake.

    So what if it doesnt deliver 700fps? It will only get better and if the best y'all can do is bitch about framerates then I suggest you put on some 100 factor sunblock and venture outdoors for a change of scenery.
     
  33. focbde

    focbde Gawd

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    How do you know that was Gen 1?
     
  34. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Can RT not be implemented in without studio's required involment?
    Would it not be possible to do things like you can with sound... Basically take available data and transform it on the fly.. no need for game studios to do anything, hence no feet dragging, no implementation delays of significance... That would be a winning formula.
     
  35. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

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    NO. You are either going with the physically based approach and use RT both make your life easier with lighting AND make the game look better OR you don't use RT.

    The problem with BFV is that they really only implemented it for limited reflections and they already designed the games lighting, reflections and art around more traditional means. It's very well done visually. But I'm not seeing any evidence that the game uses ray traced AD, global illumination or actual shadows.

    I'm hating having BFV more and more every day as the "showpiece" for ray tracing. It's just the worst case scenario. They need to release some tech demos until more RT features are used in actual game titles. Yes, it's going to be like DX10 until support expands. Luckily, DXR make RT universal but ugh this is killing me.
     
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  36. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Do we expect current cards to be capable of proper/ complete implementation? I'm asking for a friend...
    I mean if bfv is a partial implementation, shouldn't the perf hit be less than full implementation? I guess not necessarily as it could be half assed and inefficient, but still, that seems a bit unlikely.
     
  37. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

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    I didn't say that using more RT features would perform better. It very well may be totally impossible on any current RTX card. However, it also MIGHT be possible at a frame rate suitable for single player games if the current implementations are inefficient enough. It's impossible to say with BFV. I have to assume that "inefficient" is an understatement as it seems to be bolted onto their engine to give them some reflections and claim a victory on one of 2018s biggest titles.

    The cards in my opinion should be capable of better visuals and performance than this. Or at least the same performance we are seeing with RTX on but a hell of a lot better visual experience.

    The Port Royale 3D mark demo is actually out as of a few days ago but once again we can't run it without forking over for a $30 copy of 3DMark Professional.

    Performance numbers look pretty harsh, but maybe a lot better than BFV. But then you have 3DMark's really, REALLY bad art and level design which once again makes it harder to appreciate what it's doing.
     
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  38. Catboxer

    Catboxer [H]ard|Gawd

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    I posted this exact statement last week. I cannot tell in side by side in the BF5 videos I've seen.
     
  39. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

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    Ray Tracing? A passing fad...

    I'll get in when PATH Tracing comes out.

    (Or if Navi supports RT...)
     
  40. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

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    arestavo and Nolan7689 like this.