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Calling Logitechfreak

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aaronjb said:
This is the second time that this individual has been nabbed as a bad trader. He's not just behind in shipping or in over his head - all signs point to intentionally fraudulent behavior.

He is not telling the truth. I'm sorry to be harsh, but it's that naivety and greed on the part of potential buyers that helps guys like this bring scams to new heights.

If a deal looks to good to be true...
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% clear on what happened the first time around, but there's a couple points I still don't understand.

True he is a bad trader by all accounts; I agree he has not told the truth about shipping anything (month + later, DC still doesn't work). What I don't understand right now is if he's an out and out troll or not. He had 30 some heatware as LF, mostly positive for a few months I think. Clearly he was paying for / shipping stuff for a period of time without any issues because his heatware evals seemed absolutely fine. Some people were even defending him before this whole issue ballooned out of control.

So he decides to do a 180 and just scam people out of $7000 for the hell of it? He stays in contact, refunds a few people their money thru Paypal, makes up excuses instead of trying to cut and run? I don't know the mindset of a troll, but if I were doing it, as soon as the money cleared my accounts I'd be gone. :p

The police officer in the Anandtech thread, Corporal Beasley, noted through Harvey, the Anand mod that "Sherifff's officers went to his home and found piles of boxes addressed to some/most/all of you who he owes. Corporal Beasley said this tends to support his claim that he did not intend to defraud anyone. If so, whether he has ALL of the items or just some of them may make a difference in the outcome of this case. ". Someone needs to confirm that this is true; those boxes were empty / filled with rocks; or that the police are lying. I would tend to believe that, unless they are empty / filled with rocks; the police are not lying and at least some of those boxes have our stuff in it. Am I naive to believe this?

Again, there has been one instance with the CPU where ppl got double USPS DCs, so that doesn't help Chris Chartier's cause. But the whole "boxes of stuff" quote makes me wonder.

Any updates on his incarceration / resolution of this debacle? Is he going to ship stuff? Has Paypal come through?
 
thelazyone22 said:
True he is a bad trader by all accounts; I agree he has not told the truth about shipping anything (month + later, DC still doesn't work). What I don't understand right now is if he's an out and out troll or not. He had 30 some heatware as LF, mostly positive for a few months I think. Clearly he was paying for / shipping stuff for a period of time without any issues because his heatware evals seemed absolutely fine. Some people were even defending him before this whole issue ballooned out of control.
Click to expand...

A lot of people wait an unusually long time before leaving negative/neutral heatware in the hopes that their better-than-believable deal will come through. :)

thelazyone22 said:
The police officer in the Anandtech thread, Corporal Beasley, noted through Harvey, the Anand mod that "Sherifff's officers went to his home and found piles of boxes addressed to some/most/all of you who he owes. Corporal Beasley said this tends to support his claim that he did not intend to defraud anyone. If so, whether he has ALL of the items or just some of them may make a difference in the outcome of this case. ". Someone needs to confirm that this is true; those boxes were empty / filled with rocks; or that the police are lying. I would tend to believe that, unless they are empty / filled with rocks; the police are not lying and at least some of those boxes have our stuff in it. Am I naive to believe this?
Click to expand...

Is there even a question that there was a willful intent to deceive or deprive others of property in this case? When the number of victims keeps adding it, intent may prove itself - no reasonable individual could be as in the hole as this guy and not realize that he's failing to deliver on his end of the bargain to a number of buyers/sellers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft#United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_(criminal)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

And, of course, some boxes and goods were found, days after the ruckus on these forums and others indicated that Chris was up to no good. I'll assume he was in a mad rush to cover his ass.
 
aaronjb said:
A lot of people wait an unusually long time before leaving negative/neutral heatware in the hopes that their better-than-believable deal will come through. :)

Is there even a question that there was a willful intent to deceive or deprive others of property in this case? When the number of victims keeps adding it, intent may prove itself - no reasonable individual could be as in the hole as this guy and not realize that he's failing to deliver on his end of the bargain to a number of buyers/sellers.

And, of course, some boxes and goods were found, days after the ruckus on these forums and others indicated that Chris was up to no good. I'll assume he was in a mad rush to cover his ass.
Click to expand...

Right, right, this is all true, but again, you're still dwelling on hypotheticals. "Intent may prove itself", ok, but you can say that about any bad trader whose ever been called out on any forum.

I did actually wait 3 weeks before posting a Neutral heat and you can see LF's response on Heatware. It's not pretty.

My main issue right now is figuring out the "intent" you talk about. Was this kid REALLY just waiting on a check or something to ship stuff out or was he INTENTIONALLY trying to scam people out of their money? Again, I direct you to the sheriff's report, though it offers just a slim glimpse of hope since they didn't and probably won't confirm what's in the boxes without all the paperwork. And I also can't understand why he refunded ppl money if his clear INTENTION was to defraud people and scam them out of their money.

This kid got caught, thrown in jail, and from the sounds of it, wasn't expecting this sort of thing. I'd be inclined to think a hardened scammer would be quickly emptying his Paypal, falling out of contact, and physically moving after having done his bit. LF, though he still cannot prove he shipped anything, CLAIMS he has ample money, the police have reported there's at least labeled boxes, and many bits of his story he's told ppl add up (the army, where he lives).

What I think I'm really trying to get at is what's going on inside this kid's head. I know people like to jump to conclusions and yell and scream "troll!" and "scammer!" because it gives people a sort of vindictive pleasure to take justice into their own hands, but I'm thinking it's more complex than that. Beyond being a horrble trader, LF has not exhibited the usual traits of a troll/scammer and that's what's confusing me.
 
thelazyone22 said:
Right, right, this is all true, but again, you're still dwelling on hypotheticals. "Intent may prove itself", ok, but you can say that about any bad trader whose ever been called out on any forum.

I did actually wait 3 weeks before posting a Neutral heat and you can see LF's response on Heatware. It's not pretty.

My main issue right now is figuring out the "intent" you talk about. Was this kid REALLY just waiting on a check or something to ship stuff out or was he INTENTIONALLY trying to scam people out of their money? Again, I direct you to the sheriff's report, though it offers just a slim glimpse of hope since they didn't and probably won't confirm what's in the boxes without all the paperwork. And I also can't understand why he refunded ppl money if his clear INTENTION was to defraud people and scam them out of their money.

This kid got caught, thrown in jail, and from the sounds of it, wasn't expecting this sort of thing. I'd be inclined to think a hardened scammer would be quickly emptying his Paypal, falling out of contact, and physically moving after having done his bit. LF, though he still cannot prove he shipped anything, CLAIMS he has ample money, the police have reported there's at least labeled boxes, and many bits of his story he's told ppl add up (the army, where he lives).

What I think I'm really trying to get at is what's going on inside this kid's head. I know people like to jump to conclusions and yell and scream "troll!" and "scammer!" because it gives people a sort of vindictive pleasure to take justice into their own hands, but I'm thinking it's more complex than that. Beyond being a horrble trader, LF has not exhibited the usual traits of a troll/scammer and that's what's confusing me.
Click to expand...

You are dwelling on hypotheticals as well. We have no idea that what he told us is true. I have no idea if he is in the army or not, and to my knowledge no one has confirmed nor denied that.

You have no idea if hasn't already emptied his paypal account and was in the process of "running" and in the same token we don't know if all the money is there and he had no intention of running.

What we do know is that there at last count 28 traders that have not received their items totaling over $4k. That is a cold hard fact and this bullshit about not having the money to ship these items is a crock pot full of said bullshit.

Let me get this straight, he has recieved more than $4k in money yet he can't afford to ship these items?

I wish you people the best but if people continue to be naive about this and not press charges you won't see a dime.

Vindictive pleasure? I guess you could call it that, because I for one feel good waking up in the morning knowing that this prick spent at least 3 days in jail. Because I for the life of me can't figure out how someone could send you $400+ for a monitor yet it cost more than $400+ to ship it.

Maybe gas prices really are effecting FedEx/UPS/USPS.
 
FromTheLou said:
You are dwelling on hypotheticals as well. We have no idea that what he told us is true. I have no idea if he is in the army or not, and to my knowledge no one has confirmed nor denied that.

You have no idea if hasn't already emptied his paypal account and was in the process of "running" and in the same token we don't know if all the money is there and he had no intention of running.

What we do know is that there at last count 28 traders that have not received their items totaling over $4k. That is a cold hard fact and this bullshit about not having the money to ship these items is a crock pot full of said bullshit.

Let me get this straight, he has recieved more than $4k in money yet he can't afford to ship these items?

I wish you people the best but if people continue to be naive about this and not press charges you won't see a dime.

Vindictive pleasure? I guess you could call it that, because I for one feel good waking up in the morning knowing that this prick spent at least 3 days in jail. Because I for the life of me can't figure out how someone could send you $400+ for a monitor yet it cost more than $400+ to ship it.

Maybe gas prices really are effecting FedEx/UPS/USPS.
Click to expand...

True, very true. Unfortunately, you have no idea if the opposite is true as well. I'm not sure anybody really knows at this point.

Perhaps I'm just looking too deeply into that matter, but what LF did is just utterly puzzling to me. If I had done this, and I by no means will or condone it, I'd be long gone in Canada or something. I just have this feeling that there is a load of funds sitting in Paypal, who for some reason is taking their sweet time to resolve this, and money will come back. You and I got our refunds, FromTheLou. Tell me, why did we? Cuz we were mean and haggled him or something?

The only fact so far is that LF is a horrible, horrible trader and has made up some very idiotic excuses in terms of his trading practices. But as of now, pending further information, nobody can truly tell whether or not those "packages" actually contain 4 monitors, a bunch of CPUs, some game systems, and whatnot. And until someone does confirm they were empty or filled with rocks, I don't see why he would have a pile of boxes sitting around with labels if he is a scammer.

If you wake up thinking about Logitechfreak being in jail, then perhaps your priorities are misplaced. :p I certainly am glad he got some time in the slammer for this debacle, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. At the end of the day, it's just money. Perhaps I'm not so cynical.

I dunno, I'm just rambling. News on this matter seems to have slowed down significantly.
 
Being that he changed all his contact info, accounts and such; hope he wasnt smart enough to somehow create another paypal account or do an instant transfer to another/someone elses account, then we'd all be screwed. Im hoping the money is on hold in his paypal account. I talked to him via email the day he got arrested. he said he shipped my package out last thursday. so worst case from him to me would mean the package will be here tomorrow, but I highly doubt it. hope this all gets resolved soon.
 
INFRNL said:
Being that he changed all his contact info, accounts and such; hope he wasnt smart enough to somehow create another paypal account or do an instant transfer to another/someone elses account, then we'd all be screwed. Im hoping the money is on hold in his paypal account. I talked to him via email the day he got arrested. he said he shipped my package out last thursday. so worst case from him to me would mean the package will be here tomorrow, but I highly doubt it. hope this all gets resolved soon.
Click to expand...

OK, I've haven't been checking in a few days...

Did you say he got arrested?!? This is good, right? Is there any hope I'm gonna get my $90 back?
 
Brahmzy said:
OK, I've haven't been checking in a few days...

Did you say he got arrested?!? This is good, right? Is there any hope I'm gonna get my $90 back?
Click to expand...

I haven't dealt with the guy, and I went back and read the last 4 pages, since I subscribed from day one.

Read man, FFS, you lost money, read the damn thread:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031676196&postcount=430

I have corresponded with this guy ages ago about some Z5300's I have that I was going to sell, but he couldn't afford to buy them @ $150 shipped about a month ago or so...Brand new too! Bet he would have said they were broke eh? LOL
 
INFRNL said:
Being that he changed all his contact info, accounts and such; hope he wasnt smart enough to somehow create another paypal account or do an instant transfer to another/someone elses account, then we'd all be screwed. Im hoping the money is on hold in his paypal account. I talked to him via email the day he got arrested. he said he shipped my package out last thursday. so worst case from him to me would mean the package will be here tomorrow, but I highly doubt it. hope this all gets resolved soon.
Click to expand...

His paypal account was locked due to you guy's complaints, he cannot transfer/shut down his paypal account until paypal unlocks it again, which from the looks of it may not happen any time soon. So consider your money safe for now.

Regardless of whether or not he was trying to scam people this time around, he was BANNED before from this very forum, he does NOT BY ANY circumstance deserve to be let back in. Chances are he was a very lazy person and let too many trades pile up on him at once and didnt have the time/money for boxes and such to ship out fast enough and started making up BS to cover his ass for as long as possible.

point in fact: Hardforum banned him to protect you guys once before already so he would not have the chance to have his irresponsible trading habits cause problems. (or vile intent)
 
Thelazyone22 said:

"I did actually wait 3 weeks before posting a Neutral heat and you can see LF's response on Heatware. It's not pretty."

I read your neutral to him and his response. Your explanation (for leaving the neutral) was one of the best feedback I've ever read and you're right, his response was scathing. I wonder ... did he ever leave HEAT for you? If so, I guess you had it removed (since you have all pos)?


I know that this saga is on-going but as of today, 11/21 no one has left feedback for LOGITECHFREAK of any kind. He may be out of jail and he may be trying to make things right (I'm trying to be an optimist - please don't laugh at me) but, hypothetically, if he did start trading again (under another name) he could always link back to his HEAT, which, while not perfect, does not indicate his horrible trading practices.

When is it appropriate to start leaving HEAT for this guy (to protect any future victims)?

... and why did Prentice leave a positive HEAT ... when he is on the list of scammed people?
 
thelazyone22 said:
Right, right, this is all true, but again, you're still dwelling on hypotheticals. "Intent may prove itself", ok, but you can say that about any bad trader whose ever been called out on any forum.
Click to expand...

"Intent may prove itself," meaning: That he had so many "deals" going on at once, was selling the same item to multiple people, recieving goods and claiming that they were broken (from multiple people), combined with a history of bad trading, indicates that no reasonable individual could assume that these were good-faith dealings.

In other words, the very fact that he didn't have his crap in order may be all the intent a prosecutor needs.

I'll let this go, but think logically: you're not getting your (priced-too-good-to-be-true) stuff. If anyone out there hasn't taken the proper legal avenues for recourse, you're never going to see a dime.
 
I'm just asking, I have no true idea here about legal system stuff:

Does anyone know what a class action lawsuit entails? I hear about groups of people collectively sueing (usually a company) when they all have been dealt the same issue. Would that apply to us in this case or is that just for groups sueing companies?

Any up and coming lawyers on [H] that want a nice $4000+ fraud case to get their career rolling? :D:D:D
 
Kido1986 said:
I'm just asking, I have no true idea here about legal system stuff:

Does anyone know what a class action lawsuit entails? I hear about groups of people collectively sueing (usually a company) when they all have been dealt the same issue. Would that apply to us in this case or is that just for groups sueing companies?

Any up and coming lawyers on [H] that want a nice $4000+ fraud case to get their career rolling? :D:D:D
Click to expand...

A fraud case of this magnitude should have no trouble catching the attention of a DA, particularly since Mr. Chartier was wanted on other outstanding warrants.
 
Kido1986 said:
I'm just asking, I have no true idea here about legal system stuff:

Does anyone know what a class action lawsuit entails? I hear about groups of people collectively sueing (usually a company) when they all have been dealt the same issue. Would that apply to us in this case or is that just for groups sueing companies?

Any up and coming lawyers on [H] that want a nice $4000+ fraud case to get their career rolling? :D:D:D
Click to expand...

class action status applies to business defendants, not induviduals. Best thing is to post info in the LF victum's thread (only if your a vic) and coridinate your actions. Any legal recourse on your part would/should be small claims court anyways. There's way too little money involved to get a lawyer's attention.
 
evanisthecoastie said:
His paypal account was locked due to you guy's complaints, he cannot transfer/shut down his paypal account until paypal unlocks it again, which from the looks of it may not happen any time soon. So consider your money safe for now.

Regardless of whether or not he was trying to scam people this time around, he was BANNED before from this very forum, he does NOT BY ANY circumstance deserve to be let back in. Chances are he was a very lazy person and let too many trades pile up on him at once and didnt have the time/money for boxes and such to ship out fast enough and started making up BS to cover his ass for as long as possible.

point in fact: Hardforum banned him to protect you guys once before already so he would not have the chance to have his irresponsible trading habits cause problems. (or vile intent)
Click to expand...


yes his paypal account is locked now, but if he was smart enough and nknew what he was getting into he could have made another account and transfered the money before the complaints got the account locked up. its instant to transfer or send money do a different account or possibly a friends account. which would mean that we will never see a dime from paypal and can only hope that when he gets out of jail he will make things right with us

Brahmzy when I talked to him last he claimed he sent my package out last thursday; however my tracking is still not working and I still have no package. also the day I talked to him is the day we found out he got locked up for other charges not related to our issues
 
He's only received 3 reports from victims?? Aren't there like 30+ people now who wrote in the other thread? Go guys go!!
 
Easier way would be to PM everyone in the victims list to remind them to make a police report and point them to the update. Like this, there will be more reports coming and have a good turkey to roast soon.

 
Xilikon said:
Easier way would be to PM everyone in the victims list to remind them to make a police report and point them to the update. Like this, there will be more reports coming and have a good turkey to roast soon.

Click to expand...


do soemone want to do the pm'ing? the list is there in my thread.. and I am busy this week.. so most likely I won't really have time to do all the pm'ing...
 
Newbi said:
do soemone want to do the pm'ing? the list is there in my thread.. and I am busy this week.. so most likely I won't really have time to do all the pm'ing...
Click to expand...

Everybody's busy this week, it's Thanksgiving break.

Since you headed up the list, I'm sure your PMs would hold more weight. If you absolutely need someone else to do it, then maybe I can, but I'm pretty sure holding everything off till after Thanksgiving won't hurt too much. They've already caught him and whatnot; now all that's needed is paperwork which takes forever anyway.

Happy Thanksgiving all! :)
 
quoted wrong person
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever. Being busy is no excuse - its plain lazy to not report a crime. If this actually ends up not happening because people didn't send enough in, then you should be ashamed.
 
taylorwilsdon said:
Yeah, whatever. Being busy is no excuse - its plain lazy to not report a crime. If this actually ends up not happening because people didn't send enough in, then you shouldn't be allowed to trade on the internet. Lazy fucks.
Click to expand...

what the shit? I was one of the ppl who filed the report. u obviously didnt read my post. why are you trolling anyways?
 
Newbi said:
what the shit? I was one of the ppl who filed the report. u obviously didnt read my post. why are you trolling anyways?
Click to expand...

Wasn't directed at you sorry if you mistook it as that. I clicked the wrong post to quote. I was saying that those who DIDN'T file don't deserve to get their money back.
 
taylorwilsdon said:
Yeah, whatever. Being busy is no excuse - its plain lazy to not report a crime. If this actually ends up not happening because people didn't send enough in, then you shouldn't be allowed to trade on the internet. Lazy fucks.
Click to expand...

Dude, it's Thanksgiving weekend. Don't be a jackass.

The police aren't going to touch a case like this till after the break. Nobody's being lazy, everything just kind of happened at a bad time. I'm certain at least Newbi will get around to reminding people when things clear up for him.

You're not even involved. Let it play out among those who actually have a vested interest in it. If they don't want their money back because it's too much of a hassle, I don't see where you get off being a patronizing asshole.
 
Sure, thanksgiving is fine time to take off. If you don't do it today, I don't care. I've been following this thread for a week and a half, thats plenty of time before Thanksgiving to do something about your problems.

All I'm saying is that if you have time to come here and complain but don't have time to write a simple statement to the police, then you shouldn't have the right to complain.

I've edited my post to be a little less condescending but seriously, get with the program.
 
Like I said before, the problem with not doing it is not only are you screwing yourself out of your rightful money, but possibly everyone else also, which is a total now of at LEAST $4043 US Dollars. That's no small number. Since the 14th everyone involved has been told to file their own police report. That's over a week.

But anyways, do what you want, I'm not directly involved so no need to listen to me. It's just kind of sad to let a guy like this get away with outright stealing when you know exactly who it is and when you can do something about it.
 
I hope chris is enjoying some cold turkey in a cold cell. what a jackass as this guy is. Im going to local PD to file a report tomorrow.

EVERYONE SHOULD MAKE THEIR WAY TO LOCAL PD TO REPORT THIS!
 
FromTheLou said:
You are dwelling on hypotheticals as well. We have no idea that what he told us is true. I have no idea if he is in the army or not, and to my knowledge no one has confirmed nor denied that.

You have no idea if hasn't already emptied his paypal account and was in the process of "running" and in the same token we don't know if all the money is there and he had no intention of running.

What we do know is that there at last count 28 traders that have not received their items totaling over $4k. That is a cold hard fact and this bullshit about not having the money to ship these items is a crock pot full of said bullshit.

Let me get this straight, he has recieved more than $4k in money yet he can't afford to ship these items?

I wish you people the best but if people continue to be naive about this and not press charges you won't see a dime.

Vindictive pleasure? I guess you could call it that, because I for one feel good waking up in the morning knowing that this prick spent at least 3 days in jail. Because I for the life of me can't figure out how someone could send you $400+ for a monitor yet it cost more than $400+ to ship it.

Maybe gas prices really are effecting FedEx/UPS/USPS.
Click to expand...

thelazyone22 said:
True, very true. Unfortunately, you have no idea if the opposite is true as well. I'm not sure anybody really knows at this point.

Perhaps I'm just looking too deeply into that matter, but what LF did is just utterly puzzling to me. If I had done this, and I by no means will or condone it, I'd be long gone in Canada or something. I just have this feeling that there is a load of funds sitting in Paypal, who for some reason is taking their sweet time to resolve this, and money will come back. You and I got our refunds, FromTheLou. Tell me, why did we? Cuz we were mean and haggled him or something?

The only fact so far is that LF is a horrible, horrible trader and has made up some very idiotic excuses in terms of his trading practices. But as of now, pending further information, nobody can truly tell whether or not those "packages" actually contain 4 monitors, a bunch of CPUs, some game systems, and whatnot. And until someone does confirm they were empty or filled with rocks, I don't see why he would have a pile of boxes sitting around with labels if he is a scammer.

If you wake up thinking about Logitechfreak being in jail, then perhaps your priorities are misplaced. :p I certainly am glad he got some time in the slammer for this debacle, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. At the end of the day, it's just money. Perhaps I'm not so cynical.

I dunno, I'm just rambling. News on this matter seems to have slowed down significantly.
Click to expand...

Citizen86 said:
And probably screw everyone else over also who wants their money back.
Click to expand...



I dont mean to come off as rude,but some of you are trying FAR too hard to read in between the lines with this kid.He is likely mentally ill,and possibly a pathological liar.

And,at least a little bit of a sociopath. :eek:

Whatever the case may be,he did do wrong and a hell of a lot of it,and has ripped people off,press charges now if you have not already.
 
I just received this email for Paypal:

Dear Henry Clark,

After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer
Complaint described below.

We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.

Please know that we will make our best effort to recover the funds in
question if they become available in the seller's account in the future and
will take appropriate action against the seller. Such action may include
issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or terminating the account.
Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors to determine when to take
action, including member complaints. Due to privacy laws, we cannot discuss
the details of any action taken. We hope you understand our policy and that
it assures you that you are safe using PayPal.
Click to expand...

:( Looks like there isn't at least $70 left in his account. I dont know if anyone else already posted about not getting refund through Paypal but if I can't get $70 back, then I think everyone else will receive the same email.
 
Kido1986 said:
I just received this email for Paypal:



:( Looks like there isn't at least $70 left in his account. I dont know if anyone else already posted about not getting refund through Paypal but if I can't get $70 back, then I think everyone else will receive the same email.
Click to expand...


paypal is worthless when its comes to stuff like this. If nothing comes about of the police investigation, and paypal gives me the same crap notice, I will just contact my credit card company.
 
Today I've received one of the "NO SOUP FOR YOU" letters from paypal too :(

Now I'm trying to get refund from another seller (from whom I never got the item) through paypal claim...:eek: :rolleyes: :eek:
 
at this time anyone that used a credit card should call them up and recover funds through them. They will get your funds back in most cases. Good luck to everyone involved.
 
I am expecting one of those No Soup for me e-mails.
but unfortuntly, the paypal claim has not changed, and the sellers deadline to reply was yesterday.

I must be an even unluckier bastard. :(
 
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