Buying monitors is suffering

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Polar_Fox

Limp Gawd
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A few weeks ago I've preordered a Dell U2715H in a local store in my city since quality monitors is nowhere to be found in the part of the country I live in. Before ordering I've asked them whether I will be able to check and test it thoroughly before buying connected to one of their high end laptops and the answer was - yes.
Today they called me and I went to the store with a flesh drive containing cltest app and a bunch of calibration patterns from lagom test. To my great surprise they refused to connect it to anything at all aside from their vga source from which they feed the store logo to the tv's on the shelves, so I declined buying it without knowing what I'm getting. I figured it would be impossible to return a monitor with color temperature uniformity issues, blb or screwed factory calibration to this shitty store since I had a pretty bad experience with this chain of computer shops before. I got my preorder money back and left the store, actually kind of relieved. The most hilarious thing is that it costs around 15% more here than buying from european web stores with shipping included. I don't want to deal with Dell's customer support either if I get a fucked up panel, the shipping costs might be really high.

So, what should I do? Buying monitors is suffering for me. Should I just buy an Eizo CS270 to be sure that I'm not getting a dud? Maybe wait for EV270? What about similar NEC monitors?

I will use my old Samsung 226bw for now, but I really want a high quality IPS monitor with accurate factory calibration and consistent color temperature uniformity.

I don't know why I'm telling you this, I guess I'm just really fucking tired of this all. I've been to almost all stores in the two nearest to me cities and neither of them carry any quality IPS monitors.
 
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I don't think many of us American's will be able to offer you much help. We can return anything for no reason at all to the "chain" stores.

Also, sure I can notice some light bleed when a monitor is completely black...but I just do not notice those things when using it, so I have never been too concerned. My line of work does not necessitate that level of accuracy.
 
westrock2000 said:
I don't think many of us American's will be able to offer you much help. We can return anything for no reason at all to the "chain" stores.

Also, sure I can notice some light bleed when a monitor is completely black...but I just do not notice those things when using it, so I have never been too concerned. My line of work does not necessitate that level of accuracy.
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It's not just about blb. I couldn't care less about blb since I never use displays without proper lighting in my room.

But I don't want to get something like this http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/dell_u2715h/werk.png, especially on a monitor that's advertised as srgb calibrated, with a calibration report included in the package.
I also read a lot of horror stories about noticeable color temperature deviations across the screen on these dell displays to the point where one side of the screen is blue and the other is normal/yellow.
 
Polar_Fox said:
It's not just about blb. I couldn't care less about blb since I never use displays without proper lighting in my room.

But I don't want to get something like this http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/dell_u2715h/werk.png, especially on a monitor that's advertised as srgb calibrated, with a calibration report included in the package.
I also read a lot of horror stories about noticeable color temperature deviations across the screen on these dell displays to the point where one side of the screen is blue and the other is normal/yellow.
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If you have read a lot or horror stories about this monitor maybe that is a sign that its not the monitor for you. To me it sounds like its time to look for a different option that its prone to all the issues this monitor is.
 
Dell makes monitors for office employees who are not affected by inter-monitor preset colour accuracy variances, bad quality control (panel tinting and bleed) and improperly functioning hardware calibration software (wide gamut Dell U2x13H series and the 3014), but they do offer pre-paid shipping labels for exchanges in most countries. The Asus MG279Q should be similarly priced, supports Free-Sync, has a perceived black depth increasing matte grey bezel versus the U2715H's garbage frame-less casing which has an inner black bezel which ruins the perceived black depth, is 144hz and seems to be more consistent preset colour accuracy wise than the U2715H and its predecessor, the U2713HM.
 
MrWrong said:
If you have read a lot or horror stories about this monitor maybe that is a sign that its not the monitor for you. To me it sounds like its time to look for a different option that its prone to all the issues this monitor is.
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If there were any 27" 1440p monitors available here other than U2715H I wouldn't even bother with it.

NCX said:
Dell makes monitors for office employees who are not affected by inter-monitor preset colour accuracy variances, bad quality control (panel tinting and bleed) and improperly functioning hardware calibration software (wide gamut Dell U2x13H series and the 3014), but they do offer pre-paid shipping labels for exchanges in most countries. The Asus MG279Q should be similarly priced, supports Free-Sync, has a perceived black depth increasing matte grey bezel versus the U2715H's garbage frame-less casing which has an inner black bezel which ruins the perceived black depth, is 144hz and seems to be more consistent preset colour accuracy wise than the U2715H and its predecessor, the U2713HM.
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I would consider the MG279Q, but I don't play games that much to justify all those gaming features, 144hz would be completely useless for me since when I do, I prefer to play at 60fps and ultra settings instead. Also, apparently I don't notice an input lag of around 22ms and the long pixel response time of an VA panel, so a faster panel doesn't really mater to me. Also, does it have an accurate srgb emulation mode? I've just checked the tft central review and the gamut looks too wide with significant overcoverage on all spectrums.

What really bothers me about all those led displays is the appearance of whites...I have two laptops and one of them is more or less normal with slightly warm color temp but the other is horribly bluish and you can't fix it at all, no matter what I do, even if I reduce the blue channel to 50% it's just obnoxious. I'm really afraid of receiving a monitor like this.

I just want an IPS display with accurate gamut, pure, none bluish whites, consistent color temperature across the whole panel and no black crush, even if its contrast ratio is just about 600:1.
 
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Can't you order from Amazon where you are?

It might be helpful if we knew where you are.
 
Polar_Fox said:
I would consider the MG279Q, but I don't play games that much to justify all those gaming features, 144hz would be completely useless for me since when I do, I prefer to play at 60fps and ultra settings instead
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Then game at 60fps and enjoy a lag and tear free experience at the same time...if simiarly priced, picking the MG279Q should be a no-brainer.

Polar_Fox said:
Also, does it have an accurate srgb emulation mode? I've just checked the tft central review and the gamut looks too wide with significant over coverage on all spectrums.
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Non Eizo and NEC monitors sRGB modes (Asus, BenQ and Dell) almost always suck since they suffer from obvious colour dominance's, locked colour controls and usually barely change the monitors gamut enough to make a perceivable difference.

Polar_Fox said:
I just want an IPS display with accurate gamut, pure, none bluish whites, consistent color temperature across the whole panel and no black crush, even if its contrast ratio is just about 600:1.
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Non-professional monitors capable of covering 100% of the sRGB colour space (when used with programs which support colour management) have slightly larger native colour gamuts. Either you will have to live with slight over-saturation (27" 1440p monitors), considerable under-saturation (most 1080p IPS/PLS) or colour de-saturating VA and TN gamma shift.
 
But what about returning it if it is not okay?

Some of those prices seem too low and I have doubts that the site is legitimate. I have seen similar sites offering monitors at very low prices and read reviews about the sites which criticises their business practices, products not being sent etc. ilgs.net springs to mind.

I would urge caution or you might see nothing for the money you pay.

Unless your prepared to pay out a lot of money it is always a gamble when buying a computer monitor. That is why people like Amazon because at least it's easy to return them. Amazon certainly are not perfect, I suspect that they send out previously returned monitors judging by the reviews that I have read. The amount of monitors that must get returned means that they could not get rid of them in any other way.
 
Their price on the Dell U2515H is quite a bit lower than even Amazon.de which is the lowest priced Amazon seller in Europe.
 
Hate to say it man. But pain happens but we choose how much we suffer. With your list of specific needs your suffering is self catalyzed. I wish you the best of luck.
 
**MaRVeL** said:
Some of those prices seem too low and I have doubts that the site is legitimate. I have seen similar sites offering monitors at very low prices and read reviews about the sites which criticises their business practices, products not being sent etc. ilgs.net springs to mind.
I would urge caution or you might see nothing for the money you pay.
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This store seems legit. There's even a Russian community with people sharing their experience with the store http://vk.com/computeruniverse

The prices are lower because their're adjust for russians with vat excluded. If you look at their german site, the prices there are the same as on amazon.
 
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NCX said:
Non Eizo and NEC monitors sRGB modes (Asus, BenQ and Dell) almost always suck since they suffer from obvious colour dominance's
Non-professional monitors capable of covering 100% of the sRGB colour space (when used with programs which support colour management) have slightly larger native colour gamuts. Either you will have to live with slight over-saturation (27" 1440p monitors), considerable under-saturation (most 1080p IPS/PLS) or colour de-saturating VA and TN gamma shift.
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I've read that you can perform gamut transformation with all ezio coloredge monitors, even those that aren't equipped with 3d lut, not to mention that their srgb emulation is spot on according to prad out of the box.

Should I just buy the Eizo cs270 and be done with it? It looks like it uses a light matte coating like the one found on the new dell monitors and aside from the lack of the polarizer filter and built in probe, the feature set is probably the same as that of the cx271.

The lag seems alright considering I don't notice any sluggishness on my tv, which supposed to have around 20ms delay and "a slow VA panel".

How do the whites look on the wide gamut gb-r backlight displays? Will the colors on the wide gamut display in srgb emulation mode/after hardware profiling look the same as on a native high quality srgb monitor? I've never seen a wide gamut professional display in my life.

I just can't stand the cold look of whites on some lcd panels, I had to set my led tv to "warm 2" mode and then reduce the blue channel even further in the white balance menu to make it more or less passable, and yet the whites still look kind of muddy and cold, I think the glossy coating might actually contribute to this appearance. My other acer laptop is basically unfixably bluish. I've never had such issues with ccfl displays. I guess this picture explains what I see pretty clearly https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/WLED-spectrum.png.

Then you have the color temperature deviation in various portions of the screen problem, complete lack of factory calibration despite monitors being shipped with calibration reports, dead pixels and what not. Buying consumer oriented monitors is truly a suffering.
 
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The worst country in the world for Dell's consumer support is still better than the best country in the world for Asus's. U2715H comes factory calibrated AND the pixel warranty terms are much more benevolent than Asus's.
Which leaves you with the very real risk of getting a panel with massive backlight bleeding, since we are talking about a 27" IPS, which suffer from this in a brand agnostic fashion and is not covered by warranty terms.
Truth is there is no easy solution: one either buy from a store with good return policies, and cough up the costs of returning the item, or buy from a brand with factory calibration and benevolent dead pixel policy.
 
trentchau said:
Hate to say it man. But pain happens but we choose how much we suffer. With your list of specific needs your suffering is self catalyzed. I wish you the best of luck.
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Yeah, I wish I wasn't so OCD about monitors and picture quality, it just sucks big time. I remember replacing my broken CRT monitor with an early tn panel in 2004 and not giving a fuck. It was a really blissful time back then, but now I just can't feel at ease until I find a display that will satisfy me. :D
 
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OP, I bought & returned two modern IPS monitors and then bought a used SM226BW for like $40. I figured, if I'm gonna get crap, at least I won't be paying much money. I'm satisfied with my decision for now :) And the SM226 is not a bad monitor at all, this is my second one.
 
geok1ng said:
U2715H comes factory calibrated
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Sorry, but I don't see how this: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/dell_u2715h/default.jpg http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/dell_u2715h/srgb.png can be called factory calibrated. It's pretty obvious that they just use the same color profile for the whole batch/revision or even model and don't check them at all.
The funny thing is that it's specified in the factory report that the monitors are calibrated with $10k equipment, but in "special conditions" that no one aside from dell can replicate, which spares them from all the potential trouble in case someone decides to sue them for false advertisement.
 
4ort said:
OP, I bought & returned two modern IPS monitors and then bought a used SM226BW for like $40. I figured, if I'm gonna get crap, at least I won't be paying much money. I'm satisfied with my decision for now :) And the SM226 is not a bad monitor at all, this is my second one.
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Yes, I have that too as a back up lying around somewhere. I haven't used it since 2011, though, I hope it's still in working conditions.
 
Polar_Fox said:
Sorry, but I don't see how this: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/dell_u2715h/default.jpg http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/dell_u2715h/srgb.png can be called factory calibrated. It's pretty obvious that they just use the same color profile for the whole batch/revision or even model and don't check them at all. .
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You are raising a very relevant point. Both reviews you listed show very similar color behavior, with REDs being the worst colors and light blues being the best colors. but the measured Delta E on REDs was 7 on one review ( which is indeed terrible) while on the other was only 4.4 ( good enough for anyone not using a hardware calibrator himself). On average both reviews showed that "factory calibration" achieved average Delta E below 3, going below 2 on some colors.

So, you must concede that:
- they are not using the same profile on the whole line, since both factory reports and measured reviews results differ significantly , check the REDs:eek:
-despite that, on average both reviews showed that the average delta E off the Dells are way better than an uncalibrated monitor

i would not recommend a " factory calibrated" Dell for really color critical working, like printing stuff, but it is more than adequate for web content production. TFTcentral states:

"Overall the default setup was good, with the gamma and white point being very reasonable. Looks like the factory calibration does provide a reliable setup for the screen which should be fine for most casual users once they've adjusted the brightness setting".
 
geok1ng said:
You are raising a very relevant point. Both reviews you listed show very similar color behavior, with REDs being the worst colors and light blues being the best colors. but the measured Delta E on REDs was 7 on one review ( which is indeed terrible) while on the other was only 4.4 ( good enough for anyone not using a hardware calibrator himself). On average both reviews showed that "factory calibration" achieved average Delta E below 3, going below 2 on some colors.

So, you must concede that:
- they are not using the same profile on the whole line, since both factory reports and measured reviews results differ significantly , check the REDs:eek:
-despite that, on average both reviews showed that the average delta E off the Dells are way better than an uncalibrated monitor

i would not recommend a " factory calibrated" Dell for really color critical working, like printing stuff, but it is more than adequate for web content production. TFTcentral states:

"Overall the default setup was good, with the gamma and white point being very reasonable. Looks like the factory calibration does provide a reliable setup for the screen which should be fine for most casual users once they've adjusted the brightness setting".
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http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/eizo_cs270/modus-srgb.jpg http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/eizo_cs240-bk/sRGB-Modus.png These are srgb modes on Eizo CS270 and CS240. Ironically, they don't include any calibration reports in the package.

>a reliable setup for the screen which should be fine for most casual users

Unfortunately, I'm not "the most casual users"
 
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