Buying a Dell ...

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a ronin

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Jan 29, 2003
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Hi guys,

I'm looking to get a new computer but 5 years has lapsed since I last upgraded and my knowledge of hardware isn't what it use to be. I've decided to keep things simple and have pretty well decided on the Dell XPS 8300; I just need suggestions on a few component upgrades and choices.

The computer is for all intents and purposes a multimedia machine which means gaming, video encoding/editing, playback, etc. So with that said...

Processor choices: I can either go with
i5 2320 3.0Ghz 6MB cache or for an additional $150, I can upgrade to the i7-2600 3.4Gh 8MB cache. No idea what the jump in power will be in day to day computing. I personally think the upgrade is worth it since I want this machine to last a few years down the road.

Memory: Included is 8GB DDR3 1333Mhz 4 DIMMs or for an additional $240, I can double it. My current machine has 10GB (more on that later). Upgrade wise, I don't know if I should go OEM and pick them up on my own or just go with Dell. The last time I bought memory, it was like $450 for 4x2GB ECC.

Video card: Included stock card is 6450 1GB but for another $150, I can opt for the 6770. Again, no idea iif I should go with the upgrade here or upgrade to something a little faster later down the road.

So guys, the as configured price is $1,069 which includes the 16GB memory and i7 upgrade.

What I have now is a Early 2008 Mac Pro, 2.8Ghz octo core Harpertowns with 10GB of memory. I sometimes feel as though it is bogged down with just a few applications running. Obviously with the Dell, I'll be running Windows7 but the Mac also felt slow in Win7 when I had it for a time.

Hope you guys can impart some advice about which is best.

Thanks
 
More info is needed such as monitor resolution or games that you play/plan to play? If it was me, I would not do the $150 upgrade for the 6770. Take that money, shop around, buy a better card (there are some pretty good options in the ~$200 range), and install it yourself.

Also, Dell is really yanking their customers around...$240 for 16 gb of RAM? Give me a break...

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-PC3-10666-1333MHz-Processors-CMX16GX3M4A1333C9/dp/B0054KPK9C
 
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00PS said:
More info is needed such as monitor resolution or games that you play/plan to play? If it was me, I would not do the $150 upgrade for the 6770. Take that money, shop around, buy a better card (there are some pretty good options in the ~$200 range), and install it yourself.

Also, Dell is really yanking their customers around...$240 for 16 gb of RAM? Give me a break...

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-PC3-10666-1333MHz-Processors-CMX16GX3M4A1333C9/dp/B0054KPK9C
Click to expand...


I'm running a Dell 3008WFP but for games I can scale down. Games I play are wide and varied but I want to get back into sim racing, so rFactor, rF2, Codemasters F1 games, etc. I also want to run Adobe's CS5.5 suite.

I plan on running it to my tv as well so for games I'll more than likely run it at 1080p. Do you think the bare minimum spec of 8GB of memory and 6450 is sufficient for gaming? What about the processor upgrade?
 
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a ronin said:
Memory: Included is 8GB DDR3 1333Mhz 4 DIMMs or for an additional $240, I can double it. My current machine has 10GB (more on that later). Upgrade wise, I don't know if I should go OEM and pick them up on my own or just go with Dell. The last time I bought memory, it was like $450 for 4x2GB ECC.
Click to expand...
If you're comfortable with installing RAM, go OEM and pick them up on your own. A 8GB set of DDR3 RAM costs $38:
$38 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM


a ronin said:
What I have now is a Early 2008 Mac Pro, 2.8Ghz octo core Harpertowns with 10GB of memory. I sometimes feel as though it is bogged down with just a few applications running.
Click to expand...
Sounds a bit odd since you have an Octo-core setup. Have you tried a fresh install of Mac/Windows? Look into a SSD upgrade perhaps?

a ronin said:
I also want to run Adobe's CS5.5 suite.
Click to expand...
Kinda throws a wrench into things: Adobe CS5.5 software takes good advantage of Nvidia's CUDA tech. As such, if you're really serious about working with Adobe CS5.5 software, you need to get at least the $127 Nvidia GTX 550 TI. However for significantly better gaming performance and Adobe performance, you're looking at the $180 GTX 560.
a ronin said:
Do you think the bare minimum spec of 8GB of memory and 6450 is sufficient for gaming?
Click to expand...
RAM yes, video card no. That video card is pretty weak for gaming unless you're playing at 800x600 and low to medium settings. If you honestly can't upgrade the video card yourself and can take a hit in Adobe software performance, then go for the HD 6770. Though it will still struggle at 1920x1080/1200. As such, up the GPU to the HD 6870 if you can deal with the cost.

For comparison purposes: In gaming the GTX 550 Ti is actually slower than the HD 6770 but the improved Adobe performance offsets that bit. The GTX 560 is faster than any of the cards listed in both Adobe performance and games.
a ronin said:
What about the processor upgrade?
Click to expand...
If you're doing an extensive amount of video editing/rendering/encoding, go for the Core i7. But if you only do it once in awhile, you'll be fine with the Core i5.
 
I'm not doing extensive video editing as of yet but I'd like to keep the Apple stuff separate from the Windows stuff. The Mac Pro has been known to have trouble doing boot camp and video card upgrades is costly not to mention tedious with flashing and whatnot. I just want a dedicated Windows machine without having to tinker. Guess I'll get the bare bones with i7 and upgrade as needed. rFactor isn't even that system taxing (don't know about rFactor2).

I don't know if this XPS 8300 motherboard is capable of running SLI but what is a good card for about $200-$250 for general gaming? Resolution max. 1080p. I just don't' know which questions I should be asking in terms of future proofing when investing in a video card especially when I want to have it support multiple displays. TV has HDMI; monitor has a number of inputs but DVI is fine. I find some cards can be finicky in terms of resolution and connection ports. Would be great if I could also capture tv signals i.e PVR type card. Been thinking of getting the Elgato HD but just can't justify the cost but 2 birds with one stone is compelling.

Thanks guys.


Danny Bui said:
If you're comfortable with installing RAM, go OEM and pick them up on your own. A 8GB set of DDR3 RAM costs $38:
$38 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM



Sounds a bit odd since you have an Octo-core setup. Have you tried a fresh install of Mac/Windows? Look into a SSD upgrade perhaps?


Kinda throws a wrench into things: Adobe CS5.5 software takes good advantage of Nvidia's CUDA tech. As such, if you're really serious about working with Adobe CS5.5 software, you need to get at least the $127 Nvidia GTX 550 TI. However for significantly better gaming performance and Adobe performance, you're looking at the $180 GTX 560.

RAM yes, video card no. That video card is pretty weak for gaming unless you're playing at 800x600 and low to medium settings. If you honestly can't upgrade the video card yourself and can take a hit in Adobe software performance, then go for the HD 6770. Though it will still struggle at 1920x1080/1200. As such, up the GPU to the HD 6870 if you can deal with the cost.

For comparison purposes: In gaming the GTX 550 Ti is actually slower than the HD 6770 but the improved Adobe performance offsets that bit. The GTX 560 is faster than any of the cards listed in both Adobe performance and games.

If you're doing an extensive amount of video editing/rendering/encoding, go for the Core i7. But if you only do it once in awhile, you'll be fine with the Core i5.
Click to expand...
 
a ronin said:
Guess I'll get the bare bones with i7 and upgrade as needed.
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Yeah, all you need to upgrade is the video card and RAM and you'll be set. Maybe a SSD as well to really speed up the PC.
a ronin said:
I don't know if this XPS 8300 motherboard is capable of running SLI but what is a good card for about $200-$250 for general gaming? Resolution max. 1080p.
Click to expand...
At that price point your best option would be the $225 GTX 560 TI 1GB.
a ronin said:
I just don't' know which questions I should be asking in terms of future proofing when investing in a video card
Click to expand...
Several questions:
- What resolution do you want to play games at? Different resolutions requires different video cards.
- Are you using Adobe software or any other kind of software that takes advantage of Nvidia's CUDA tech?
- What exact games will you be playing? Certain games have very demanding performance requirements. i.e the video card for games like BF3 and Skyrim at high settings at 1920x1080 is gonna be a bit different for games like F1 2011, MW3 or SC2.
- What kind of settings do you want? i.e low, medium, high, maxxed out?

a ronin said:
especially when I want to have it support multiple displays.
Click to expand...
How many displays? 2? Or more?
 
Several years back I had the same idea of buying an entry level Dell desktop and upgrading it. It was a nightmare. Unless things have changed, everything they used was garbage and literally the bare minimum needed to run the included components. In the end only the CPU and optical drive were usable.

You'd be infinitely better off building it yourself from the ground up if you're comfortable with that. Otherwise, I'd recommend buying from one of the better boutique builders so you know exactly what you're getting.
 
Danny Bui said:
Yeah, all you need to upgrade is the video card and RAM and you'll be set. Maybe a SSD as well to really speed up the PC.

At that price point your best option would be the $225 GTX 560 TI 1GB.

Several questions:
- What resolution do you want to play games at? Different resolutions requires different video cards.
- Are you using Adobe software or any other kind of software that takes advantage of Nvidia's CUDA tech?
- What exact games will you be playing? Certain games have very demanding performance requirements. i.e the video card for games like BF3 and Skyrim at high settings at 1920x1080 is gonna be a bit different for games like F1 2011, MW3 or SC2.
- What kind of settings do you want? i.e low, medium, high, maxxed out?


How many displays? 2? Or more?
Click to expand...

I don't want to run Eyefinity or anything crazy like that; just one monitor and tv simultaneously preferably but not paramount. I usually watch my shows which I download on my monitor or on the big screen but the interconnection is anything but seamless so if there is a video card with enough heft to power the desktop's 2560x1600 (2d stuff) and still play VLC on another screen @1080 then great. On the other hand, I want to be able to have the Winbox run games at decent details as well. I am willing to make concessions when running games on the monitor but at 1080p it should run fairly decent without hiccups. The biggest frustration with my Mac is the video card. I have a flashed 260GTX I bought off eBay which does have CUDA to run the Mercury engine but ideally I want to retire the Mac to just doing what it's suppose to... run Apple software and nothing else. I can't even run L4D 2 on this thing any higher than 1280x720/800 without graphics lag.

Game wise, I'm not a discriminating gamer but I like driving sim which tend to be on the lower end of the hardware spectrum, right? With a more standard motherboard I don't have to worry about paying the Apple tax for ridiculously low-end graphics for high end price -- this is why I want a dedicated Winbox. I just hope the board in the XPS can keep up with the upgrades.

I'm fairly versed in upgrading components; I have built computers (2) in the past so I'm not totally clueless but I want to take advantage of the Dell financing.

K1tty said:
Several years back I had the same idea of buying an entry level Dell desktop and upgrading it. It was a nightmare. Unless things have changed, everything they used was garbage and literally the bare minimum needed to run the included components. In the end only the CPU and optical drive were usable.

You'd be infinitely better off building it yourself from the ground up if you're comfortable with that. Otherwise, I'd recommend buying from one of the better boutique builders so you know exactly what you're getting.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that contemporary BTO computers are more upgrade friendly. The last turnkey computer I bought was a Compaq Presario which had the Athlon 600Mhz cpu. $3000 in 1999. Which other vendors are better in this regard? I haven't looked at the rest.
 
a ronin said:
Game wise, I'm not a discriminating gamer but I like driving sim which tend to be on the lower end of the hardware spectrum, right?
Click to expand...
Just a little bit yeah. With Codemaster's F1 2011, the $225 GTX 560 Ti I listed earlier has been shown to be able to max out that game at 2560x1600 at roughly 45 FPS. However for games like BF3 and Skyrim, the GTX 560 TI would be playable at 1920x1080 with some settings turned down.
a ronin said:
My understanding is that contemporary BTO computers are more upgrade friendly.
Click to expand...
They are in terms of RAM, PSU, hard drives, and video cards. However mobo and CPU upgrades are a pain as many OEMs still use proprietary front panel connectors and limit the range of CPUs supported by certain motherboards.
 
Danny Bui said:
Just a little bit yeah. With Codemaster's F1 2011, the $225 GTX 560 Ti I listed earlier has been shown to be able to max out that game at 2560x1600 at roughly 45 FPS. However for games like BF3 and Skyrim, the GTX 560 TI would be playable at 1920x1080 with some settings turned down.

They are in terms of RAM, PSU, hard drives, and video cards. However mobo and CPU upgrades are a pain as many OEMs still use proprietary front panel connectors and limit the range of CPUs supported by certain motherboards.
Click to expand...

Anyway I can find out what motherboard they use for the XPS 8300? 16GB of memory will be as much as I am willing to go anyway in this computer and the graphics card uses PCI-e, right? As long as it is a standard for the next 3-5 years I'm find. I don't plan sinking a lot of money into this for gaming since I also have the consoles.

Anyway, I think I'm going to put the order through.

Thanks for your help and others as well.
 
The motherboard model would not be important. You would want to know the chipset and what it supports. You'd also want to know the PSU they include, and if it has the PCI-E power connectors needed for your planned upgrade along with being powerful enough.

For the type of PC you want, I would suggest building it instead of upgrading a dell. If you don't have time, then check out the boutique builders as suggested earlier. Upgrading a dell is good for entry-level/basic gaming systems; but for media/gaming powerhouse system, you really shouldn't bother with Dell unless you don't mind the price of alienware. Even then, I'd suggest a boutique over alienware so you know exactly what you're getting for your money.
 
enginurd said:
The motherboard model would not be important. You would want to know the chipset and what it supports. You'd also want to know the PSU they include, and if it has the PCI-E power connectors needed for your planned upgrade along with being powerful enough.

For the type of PC you want, I would suggest building it instead of upgrading a dell. If you don't have time, then check out the boutique builders as suggested earlier. Upgrading a dell is good for entry-level/basic gaming systems; but for media/gaming powerhouse system, you really shouldn't bother with Dell unless you don't mind the price of alienware. Even then, I'd suggest a boutique over alienware so you know exactly what you're getting for your money.
Click to expand...

The build pretty well predicates on being able to do it on a financing term so the XPS is about as high as I've allowed myself to go.

I've never heard of the Boutique Builders... kind of thought it was a general term for the 'other guys', i.e HP, Lenovo, et al.

Thanks for the suggestion all the same.
 
Boutique refers to custom computer builders such as Pudget, Maingear, AvaDirect, etc. Honestly you'd even be better off going with a iBuyPower or Cyberpower pre-built off of NewEgg than that Dell and trying to upgrade it.

For Example
 
enginurd said:
The motherboard model would not be important. You would want to know the chipset and what it supports. You'd also want to know the PSU they include, and if it has the PCI-E power connectors needed for your planned upgrade along with being powerful enough.

For the type of PC you want, I would suggest building it instead of upgrading a dell. If you don't have time, then check out the boutique builders as suggested earlier. Upgrading a dell is good for entry-level/basic gaming systems; but for media/gaming powerhouse system, you really shouldn't bother with Dell unless you don't mind the price of alienware. Even then, I'd suggest a boutique over alienware so you know exactly what you're getting for your money.
Click to expand...

+1 for building your own. That way its how you want it.
 
K1tty said:
Boutique refers to custom computer builders such as Pudget, Maingear, AvaDirect, etc. Honestly you'd even be better off going with a iBuyPower or Cyberpower pre-built off of NewEgg than that Dell and trying to upgrade it.

For Example
Click to expand...

I bought a cyberpower PC once a long time ago, and they're a pretty good company. Only problem that I had was that they would only sell the higher end gaming computers with a p5n-e sli which was a garbage motherboard (atleast in my experience). Computer crashed off and on in games, and they were really good about helping me trouble shoot it, they cross shipped CPUs, video cards, even the motherboard and hard drive.

I'd much prefer to build my own, but if I wanted it built, I'd go with one of them. They use real parts instead of the garbage dell puts in their computers. Not that it won't work, it will, but there's rarely ever room for expansion in their cases, and they're usually pretty poor when it comes to cooling. The place I'm working at right now had to buy a guy a computer for number crunching through millions of accounts and they ordered a 1500 computer I could have built for 750, and the case came with a 90mm fan in the back and an 80mm in the front.

There's also just not customize-ability when it comes to motherboard options, and that's what really kills it for me. Generally speaking, from the dells that I've seen (granted they're almost all business computers), they throw in the cheapest PSU they can that will still work for 3 years.
 
Dell/Alienware, HP/Voodoo, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, etc = OEM - main goal is cost efficiency

With boutique builders (eg the ones K1tty named), their main goal is customization. You basically get to choose nearly every single component; whereas the OEMs, you're stuck with their mobo, psu, case, etc (limited choices for components). Boutiques limit your choices too, but there are still more choices than OEMs.
 
Hagrid said:
+1 for building your own. That way its how you want it.
Click to expand...

Make it +2 for building your own. If you've got time to do a little research to pick out your parts I think you'll be happier than going with a pre-built solution...and you'll learn a few things in the process.

Dell's PC's can be extremely proprietary and, therefore, more difficult to upgrade.

And if you don't have the time to research parts on your own, I'm sure someone can spec you out a build if you go through the "Answer these questions first" bit.
 
I'd rather go through the trouble of upgrading a Dell to be a gaming PC than to buy a poorly constructed and supported gaming PC from Cyberpower or iBuypower.
 
Danny Bui said:
I'd rather go through the trouble of upgrading a Dell to be a gaming PC than to buy a poorly constructed and supported gaming PC from Cyberpower or iBuypower.
Click to expand...

I thought Cyberpower made DVD software :D

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the XPS 8300 w/ i7 2600k for $909 shipped. Should be here next week with a new 47" 3D LED TV. I'm going to run this exclusively as a HTPC more than likely.

Having owned a Compaq before I know the troubles of upgrading and such with these computers. Apart from the video card and memory, I just don't see myself doing much more than that. Hell, I've owned a mac for the last 4 years and gamed on the console so this will be a treat no_matter_what!

Can't wait to play rFactor on this beast with the TV.
 
Danny Bui said:
I'd rather go through the trouble of upgrading a Dell to be a gaming PC than to buy a poorly constructed and supported gaming PC from Cyberpower or iBuypower.
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Have you had a bad experience with them? Just want to make sure I'm not recommending something incorrectly.

I dealt with them a couple of years ago buying a core 2 duo pc with an 8800GTX, which, at the time, for my age, was a LOT of money to put into a computer. Figured I'd go with a company like them because the support would be worth it.

They actually did a good job of putting it together imo, and their cable management was leaps and bounds better than anything I've ever been capable of. Everything was put in well and it was just an all around solid machine, aside from the bad motherboard selection.

They also had no problem cross shipping me parts, which admittedly weren't great. The hard drive was dead when it got to me, I'm assuming something happened in shipping. And the aforementioned motherboard problems.

Dell is just too proprietary. Unless you buy a more expensive option there's literally no head room in them. No expansion possibilities. Even in the higher end machines they're sparse with things like fans. Once you exit the budget pc range, for someone who can't/doesn't want to build for themselves, I consider cyberpower to be a good option (other types of companies are likely similar).
 
Pylor said:
Have you had a bad experience with them? Just want to make sure I'm not recommending something incorrectly.
Click to expand...
Mainly their reputation here on the forum and the numerous horror stories I've read both on this forum and other sources. In addition, since Cyberpower is literally located 12 minutes away from me and therefore a local presence, I've had to fix quite a few Cyberpower built PCs when Cyberpower wouldn't or couldn't. Not to mention that they still have known shitty power supplies as an option for their custom built PCs is a large red flag.

Pylor said:
Dell is just too proprietary. Unless you buy a more expensive option there's literally no head room in them. No expansion possibilities. Even in the higher end machines they're sparse with things like fans. Once you exit the budget pc range, for someone who can't/doesn't want to build for themselves, I consider cyberpower to be a good option (other types of companies are likely similar).
Click to expand...

Yes Dell is proprietary and yes some of them are sparse with fans. However they're generally well built and the quality is usually good enough. In addition, you can upgrade the PSU, RAM, HDD, and GPU with little issue with even the budget Dells. Then there's Dell's support which I've found to be fairly good.

As such, I cannot recommend a Cyberpower or iBuypower to anyone I don't hate.
 
Danny Bui said:
Mainly their reputation here on the forum and the numerous horror stories I've read both on this forum and other sources. In addition, since Cyberpower is literally located 12 minutes away from me and therefore a local presence, I've had to fix quite a few Cyberpower built PCs when Cyberpower wouldn't or couldn't. Not to mention that they still have known shitty power supplies as an option for their custom built PCs is a large red flag.



Yes Dell is proprietary and yes some of them are sparse with fans. However they're generally well built and the quality is usually good enough. In addition, you can upgrade the PSU, RAM, HDD, and GPU with little issue with even the budget Dells. Then there's Dell's support which I've found to be fairly good.

As such, I cannot recommend a Cyberpower or iBuypower to anyone I don't hate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, I'll definitely avoid recommending them from now on then. It's too bad, the idea of the business is actually a pretty good one. I will admit that it was awfully hard to get them on the phone, that and the fact that I ended up replacing the motherboard with one they sent me which makes it kind of pointless to have someone else build it =/

I'm guessing you've dealt with bigger dells than I have too. Most of the ones I see are the tiny little cases that don't even have room for more than one hard drive and a laptop-sized optical.
 
Well, I just bought the Dell XPS and I tried gaming with it. Big mistake. The stock 5450 HD video card is an utter embarrassment. I'm trying to build a sim racing rig by way of piece meal so budget is always a concern. I've asked around and most seem to recommend the 560ti or 6870. I'm thinking about the 6870 purely because of its XFX rebate and below the $200 price point. Again, not knowing too much about the DIY in its current iteration, I'm confused about the difference between the single and 'double d' dual fan versions. Is the dual version much more quiet and power conscious? I don't even know what PSU rating is in this Dell XPS but I hope it's enough.

Any thoughts?
 
Open up the XPS and read the label on the PSU. It should tell you the wattage rating.
 
enginurd said:
Open up the XPS and read the label on the PSU. It should tell you the wattage rating.
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Looks like I was given a 345watt PSU. Are these guys kidding me? They market the XPS as a gamer's pc but give a crappy PSU? I can't even upgrade to anything worthwhile with this.
 
Actually a solid 345W PSU should be enough for the GTX 560 Ti or HD 6870.
 
a ronin said:
Looks like I was given a 345watt PSU. Are these guys kidding me? They market the XPS as a gamer's pc but give a crappy PSU? I can't even upgrade to anything worthwhile with this.
Click to expand...
As was stated earlier, Dell builds the systems as configured - not for upgrade capability.
 
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