Bulldozer Possibly Pushed back till October

wuttz said:
i doubt that even spending 100B on ads would bump amd sales even by a bit.
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Says a lot of about your products if in this marketing and brand concious era you can't get folks to buy your products after telling them how great and even "magical" they are.

Remember you can sell any old crap if you hype it enough. Apple havent done too bad with this approach. Nice looking products but decidely average internally and price them high. But it doesnt matter cos we'll sell them as the 'cool' thing to have.

I just dont think AMD has the will to fight anymore. It's a shame as I've been an AMD customer for well over 15 years.
 
daglesj said:
In that case quit moaning as a company when Intel keep taking the money.

Intel must be doing something right? Maybe you should ask Nigel Dessau to get off his backside and do some work?

My customers who you say are not CPU aware will still question my recommendation of a AMD CPU as they havent heard of AMD. They do ask why not an Intel, in the UK we get a lot of Intel ads. They have at least all heard of Intel, cant say the same for you guys.

It does make a difference, but a lot of the exec at AMD must live in ivory towers maybe?
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it's not really intel / amd advertising that gets the crowds. it's vendor advertising IMO.

"the new dell insprion blah blah blah featuring AMD Fusion / Intel Core i3 ......" etc :p
 
wuttz said:
awesomely overpriced POS cpu's.
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I though that is the biggest problem at the moment with AMD. I mean the $120 i3 2100 beats up most of AMD's lineup (even X6 processors) at most tasks.

(how do you sell a POS SB that has 2005 era graphics?)
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The GPU inside the SB processors is good enough for most home users, certainly most business users that would have used an integrated GPU on the previous generation. Remember that Intel sells more GPUs than all other manufacturers combined.
 
drescherjm said:
I though that is the biggest problem at the moment with AMD. I mean the $120 i3 2100 beats up most of AMD's lineup (even X6 processors) at most tasks.

The GPU inside the SB processors is good enough for most home users, certainly most business users that would have used an integrated GPU on the previous generation. Remember that Intel sells more GPUs than all other manufacturers combined.
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lol most tasks? depends on the workload, but integrated electronics can sure engineer for bentmarks. but highly threaded multi app worloads like actual desktop environments? the POS overpriced i7 -2600k chokes like a wimp vs. llano. need i post godfrey's video again?

right, where int-el is behind; its sufficient.
where amd loses out barely(and likely due to software optimization); it is the end of amd.
lol, safe to say intel is way behind in gpu/gpgpu more than amd is behind on cpu/x86; even w/ an old k8- derived core.

sorry spintel, your bentmarketing dont work on this educated consumer.
pity the other fool who swallows intel marketing. ending up in overpaying for a POS part while helping maintain the status quo of corrupt industry practices.
 
I would assume these are llano's with bad GPUs so the GPU was disabled. Not sure what benefit these will have for the consumer.
 
wuttz said:
lol most tasks? depends on the workload, but integrated electronics can sure engineer for bentmarks. but highly threaded multi app worloads like actual desktop environments? the POS overpriced i7 -2600k chokes like a wimp vs. llano. need i post godfrey's video again?
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You can post a million videos and what will that change?

Hardforum is a good representation of the most informed 5% that JF-AMD was talking about. The vast majority of people here will claim that 2600K is superior to the Llano. How many people think the opposite?
 
needmorecarnitine said:
You can post a million videos and what will that change?

Hardforum is a good representation of the most informed 5% that JF-AMD was talking about. The vast majority of people here will claim that 2600K is superior to the Llano. How many people think the opposite?
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Llano is superior to SB if - and only if - you rely on integrated graphics for both, and you plan on playing games.

Otherwise SB is superior in every regard.

For most of us here, that means that SB will be the better choice of the two, as we mostly use discrete graphics.

That being said, I know people who would like to just buy a store bought computer for cheap, bring it home and play older games on it, like Counter-Strike: Source. For them Llano would probably be the better buy.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037647957 said:
Llano is superior to SB if - and only if - you rely on integrated graphics for both, and you plan on playing games.
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yeah, he forgot to mention that part.
 
how is SB superior to an old k10.5 core in Llano?
only if youve been drinking the blue koolaid long enough.

unfortunately the 5% most informed people have been informed wrong.
if you run singular tasks and bentmarks, SB does score better and can compute superpi faster than Jesus himself.

but load it up with multiple apps to simulate a heavily loaded environment and see Llano laugh at it, without breaking a sweat. SB otoh, chokes all the time courtesy of hypethreading.

in this instance, being informed doesnt mean youre right.
 
What do you mean by heavily loaded? Video encoding? My friend's iMac with a SB Core i7 is pretty fast for it.
 
the SB is a choke video: [ link ]
never mind that its gpu rendering is broken: [ link ]

anyone have a link to the SB GPU bug where it has to skip a frame every so often due to playing 24fps instead of the industry standard 23.9ish?
 
Hyper threading is a gimmick. Intel is so obsessed with super fast IPC that with sandy bridge it has built a part that is so fast the uncore areas cannot keep up. Sandy experiences a lot of cache trashing and hyper threading helps but its a brute force approach. Whereas bulldozer is a beautiful design for multitasking.
 
wuttz said:
how is SB superior to an old k10.5 core in Llano?
only if youve been drinking the blue koolaid long enough.

unfortunately the 5% most informed people have been informed wrong.
if you run singular tasks and bentmarks, SB does score better and can compute superpi faster than Jesus himself.

but load it up with multiple apps to simulate a heavily loaded environment and see Llano laugh at it, without breaking a sweat. SB otoh, chokes all the time courtesy of hypethreading.

in this instance, being informed doesnt mean youre right.
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That's total bull. If you believe that nonsense you are the most blinded fanboy on the planet.

There is NOTHING about a k10.5 cpu that makes it more efficient at multithreading. If you place a k10.5 based CPU up against intel CPU of the last several generations with the same amount of cores it will get beaten. Even a Core 2 Quad will beat a Llano for crying out loud.

I'm an AMD guy. I buy AMD chips, and even I acknowledge that Intel is kicking some serious AMD butt right now on every single aspect of their CPU designs.

Intel CPU's have higher IPC, higher clock rate potential, better multithreading capability at the same core count, and run on less power.

The ONLY thing Llano has going for it is its GPU, and again, that is completely irrelevant for those of us on this forum as very few of us are going to use integrated graphics.
 
lol "blinded fanboy?"
go ahead, load up your phenom x6 and see if it chokes like in the video i posted.
now do the same with an i7-2600k and compare your system response. if you run bentmarks one by one int-el works fine;

but run them all together and see hypethreading choke.
keep drinking the blue koolaid.
 
I don't even fucking care anymore. When my X6 gives it up I will probably buy whatever is the fastest and affordable at the time. Bulldozer is like that drunken prom date that teases but doesn't put out and then calls you 3 days later after you just banged her friend and forgot her name. :mad: I have hung with AMD thick and thin and this has been the longest they have dragged out any of their releases that I can remember and I am tired of waiting, been sitting on this setup I got now for a while with the only upgrade was an X6 1090T coming from an X4 955.
 
wuttz said:
lol "blinded fanboy?"
go ahead, load up your phenom x6 and see if it chokes like in the video i posted.
now do the same with an i7-2600k and compare your system response. if you run bentmarks one by one int-el works fine;

but run them all together and see hypethreading choke.
keep drinking the blue koolaid.
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Is a bentmark anything like a benchmark? If you are that concerned about hyperthreading, maybe you should just compare a 2500K instead?
 
wuttz said:
the SB is a choke video: [ link ]
never mind that its gpu rendering is broken: [ link ]

anyone have a link to the SB GPU bug where it has to skip a frame every so often due to playing 24fps instead of the industry standard 23.9ish?
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dude your video link doesn't go anywhere.
 
wuttz said:
lol "blinded fanboy?"
go ahead, load up your phenom x6 and see if it chokes like in the video i posted.
now do the same with an i7-2600k and compare your system response. if you run bentmarks one by one int-el works fine;

but run them all together and see hypethreading choke.
keep drinking the blue koolaid.
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1.) The i7 is choking because of it's GPU. We know the GPU is better on Llano. Again the integrated GPU on Llano is the only thing it has going for it, but as soon as you put a discrete video card in both the SB crushes Llano.

The only reason Llano looks good here is because games - especially with these low end video cards - are GPU limited and Llano has the better integrated GPU.

2.). You are really going to use a video released by AMD as objective evidence that their CPU is better than thir competitors? Lolwut? Not like they might have an agenda to push or anything...

The fact remains that the CPU cores in Llano are essentially the same as the Phenoms that AMD released in 2007, without a TLB bug and shrunk to 32nm. It was behind intel already back then and it's only worse now.

All die shrinks do is make the CPU run at lower voltages and produce less heat. Unless there are other fundamental changes (which there haven't been in Llano) they will perform the same at the same clock rate.

Since gaming is almost always GPU limited anyway, in most cases users won't see a real difference between current Intel and AMD CPU designs, but trying to ascribe some sort of superiority to Llano's obsolete core designs that fundamentally date back to K8's launched in 2003, which if not for the 64bit instructions and integrated memory controller are the same as K7's, the original Athlon/Duron design from '99 is really blinded fanboyism.

Don't get me wrong. In 1999 it was a phenomenal design and kicked some Intel butt, but today it's a terribly outdated core design.
 
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So this thread has gotten stupidly off topic?

Can anyone verify if the damn thing is pushed back?

I really wanna know if I should blow a grand on Ivy 2011 or wait for this 8 core monster machhine....

sigh.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037647567 said:
Now it looks like September is becoming October.
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Nope , the link i posted is pretty solid it is someone with a shop in the UK. If you checked the thread you can see that it is valid.
 
Even if they launch in late sept, we probably won't see anything until much later. They're going to allocate server shipments first and those haven't even launched yet. Weren't they supposed to launch this week or something?
 
InternationalHat said:
Even if they launch in late sept, we probably won't see anything until much later. They're going to allocate server shipments first and those haven't even launched yet. Weren't they supposed to launch this week or something?
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If by this week you mean "this date next month" (according to rumors anyways), then yes.
 
there are reports that they begin shipping next week, however i don't think they are the desktop versions. the server and workstation parts are supposed to launch before the desktop variants. rumored launch of the server parts are now sept 18th or 26th. im getting pretty tired of waiting for some numbers though.
 
If they delay again, Im going Intel. 3 years of waiting is more than plenty.
 
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they'd better ship something next week.

even server chips would give us some idea of desktop performance.

i hope someone gets a hold of a chip and writes up comparison to the opterons
 
Zarathustra[H];1037647957 said:
Llano is superior to SB if - and only if - you rely on integrated graphics for both, and you plan on playing games.

Otherwise SB is superior in every regard.

For most of us here, that means that SB will be the better choice of the two, as we mostly use discrete graphics.

That being said, I know people who would like to just buy a store bought computer for cheap, bring it home and play older games on it, like Counter-Strike: Source. For them Llano would probably be the better buy.
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In laptops there are more situations where Llano will be superior to SB . For the cost of a i3 sandy bridge system I can get a quad core llano . Performance cpu wise the 1.8ghz llano will be faster in alot of situations than the dual core i3 and as you've said gaming is certianly better .
 
JF-AMD said:
If you spent any time looking at retail data and unit shipment data you would find 2 very interesting trends:

1. In the consumer market, enthusiasts are ~5-10% of the revenue and non-processor aware are the other 90-95%.

2. Non-processor aware continue to be non-processor aware despite the billions being spent to advertise to them.

So, the "standard" consumer market is where the money is, and the majority of the people who buy your product will not know they are buying it. Whether they know it or not is almost immaterial, what matter is that they do buy it. Retail presence (on shelves, in adverts) if way more valuable than advertising. That is how consumer products are sold.
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Have you ever considered that if 5% of people are enthusiast...(1 out of 20) then maybe they are the one that the other 19 will go to when they need to buy a new computer, and get advice from them.
Being the "guy who knows about computers" means that I get text messages, emails, and calls from people on an almost weekly basis to ask what sort of computer/netbook/phone/washing machine(???) they should buy for themselves/their grandmother/their kids/etc.

We may only be 5% of the market, but I am pretty sure that we influence more then 5% of it. this is the reason why I have recommended sandy bridge systems to all the people that ask me, and llano for those people who want laptops.
 
cold&damp said:
Have you ever considered that if 5% of people are enthusiast...(1 out of 20) then maybe they are the one that the other 19 will go to when they need to buy a new computer, and get advice from them.
Being the "guy who knows about computers" means that I get text messages, emails, and calls from people on an almost weekly basis to ask what sort of computer/netbook/phone/washing machine(???) they should buy for themselves/their grandmother/their kids/etc.

We may only be 5% of the market, but I am pretty sure that we influence more then 5% of it. this is the reason why I have recommended sandy bridge systems to all the people that ask me, and llano for those people who want laptops.
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This is very true. However, I think the problem lies in how often they (friends, family, etc) make a computer purchase. Trust me, everyone contacts me just as well to ask either if this is good or not or which would you purchase. Since the non processor group never upgrade that often (besides memory) I try to sway them towards AMD since their machines have more graphical horsepower and usually are cheaper.
 
cold&damp said:
Have you ever considered that if 5% of people are enthusiast...(1 out of 20) then maybe they are the one that the other 19 will go to when they need to buy a new computer, and get advice from them.
Being the "guy who knows about computers" means that I get text messages, emails, and calls from people on an almost weekly basis to ask what sort of computer/netbook/phone/washing machine(???) they should buy for themselves/their grandmother/their kids/etc.

We may only be 5% of the market, but I am pretty sure that we influence more then 5% of it. this is the reason why I have recommended sandy bridge systems to all the people that ask me, and llano for those people who want laptops.
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True I saved at least 5 people from buying X6 cpus after making mistake myself :D
 
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