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Building vs. Buying

C

ChaosNightWolf

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Messages
306
I'm buying a new PC. I was originally going to build it from scratch, but I've noticed companies like IBuyPower offering good prices on builds I was going to do myself.

Is there any money to be saved in building custom PC's anymore? Or is the only benefit of a custom build customization?
 
IBuyPower and its spiritual -- or is it actual? -- sibling CyberPower are bad choices for prebuilt systems. They mix good parts in with bad parts and their customer service is pretty bad. To put it another way, some people trust Dell and HP over these guys.

The good, independent boutiques are considerably more expensive than a DIY system, even when you use identical components.

But really, what's so hard about using a screwdriver and following instructions? Most desktop systems aren't that hard to assemble.
 
I generally wouldn't buy from Ibuypower or cyberpowerpc, or any other built-it-for you configuration websites.

eCollege PC is the exception however because they don't overcharge on the parts, just a fee for the actual construction.

When you are paying nearly $60 to $70 for an 8GB DDR3 ram kit for a build on these websites and ram is generally $45 to $50 everywhere else such as TigerDirect, Newegg, and Amazon, you know something is definitely wrong.

Also consider when you build yourself you aren't paying anyone else for additional labor costs, nor being overcharged on parts that may be heavily discounted or more reasonably priced elsewhere such as NCIX, Newegg, TigerDirect, or MicroCenter.
 
Well, if you are on a budget and want relatively new technology, you can't beat the price of a $500 Dell or HP. Especially if you need a monitor because many of those come with one. The Windows license alone is $100, another $100 for the monitor and you are really paying $300 for the computer.

However, if you have a larger budget and want to buy premium components, then building is the only way to go. You can pick and choose everything to your liking, you can deal with warranty directly instead of waiting for the builder to do it, and you don't pay 50%-100% markup for components.

Oh, and doesn't iBuyPower or CyberPower glue its memory sticks into the motherboards or was that just a rumor?
 
I was looking at this set up from IBuyPower:

http://www.ibuypower.com/Store/Special-A

Putting together that exact PC using parts purchased from newegg.com comes out to significantly more money.

I'm assuming IBuyPower can make a profit not by over charging for parts you can buy yourself, but by better sourcing the product (I'm assuming as a business they don't pay full retail for their parts).

Unless there is something I'm missing, I'm still failing to see how building your own is going to be a better value in terms of price.
 
Don't know where you are getting the significantly more money, just ran it through newegg and it was a wash on the cost. A couple things I would note is you have a no-name PSU on the build from that website, you should at least upgrade that. You also have a no-name HDD on that build.

And honestly if you are debating between building/buying you might be on the wrong forum. [H] is all about building and tweaking your computer not letting some other person lay hands on your prized possession. No disrespect but you're not [H] if you outsource =P

I've built every computer I have owned for the last 13 years and every build is just a little different and I always learn something. It's not even a question of money (though over the long haul I know I've saved money by building my own) but is a personal hobby/preference/point of pride for me.
 
ChaosNightWolf said:
Unless there is something I'm missing, I'm still failing to see how building your own is going to be a better value in terms of price.
Click to expand...
You are missing quite a few things:

First, no one here has recommended iBuypower or its brethren Cyberpower for reasons already mentioned. We tend to recommend more reputable, reliable, and well supported but more expensive PC boutiques like Puget Systems, Velocity Micro, Maingear, etc. As others have said, those good boutiques tends to be more expensive. So compared to those more expensive PC boutiques, building your own is going to be a better value in terms of value. Then again it's largely dependent on how you value your time as well.

Second, several of those parts are poor choices for the money or not good choices at all:
- As said earlier, thats a generic 700W PSU in that PC. There's no brand and the fact that the PSU is listed as having "passive PFC" are dead giveaways as to the low quality of the PSU. Adding a good 650W to 750W PSU is gonna cost at least another $80.
- That setup uses a 4 x 2GB setup. As such, you're already maxed out on the RAM. In addition, 2x4GB RAM setups tends to be cheaper and will allow for possible expansion to 16GB of RAM. In addition, they list the RAM voltage at 1.80 (odd number) which is insanely stupid as current Intel CPUs should not be used with RAM rated above 1.5V for longevity and stability reasons.
- The eVGA GTX 560 Ti Superclocked card is an overpriced card. These days we recommend the HD 7850 at that price point due to the slightly higher performance, lower power use, and extra VRAM.
- Unless you're doing a ton of video, 3D, or audio editing/rendering or VM work, no reason to grab the Core i7 3770K. The Core i5 3570K is more than enough for a primarily gaming PC.
- The Motherboard isn't that good of a choice due to reliability and stability issues. Asus is phasing out that mobo hence why its priced has jumped up in the past week or two. Its normal price was $125 or so.

So once you substitute better quality, more bang for the buck, and more reliable parts, it's gonna end up being not much more than an Ibuypower setup. As shown above, iBuypower is using a mixture of extremely low quality parts and overpriced parts.
 
Just my personal opinion on the custom build vs. prebuilt.

If you take the time to really do your homework and carefully select the components, with a custom build you have near infinite levels of flexibility when it comes to future upgrades. You can replace one or two components at a time, without really affecting any of the others. So it may cost a little more initially, but over time the flexibility allows you to take advantage of short-term deals on component upgrades. If NewEgg is running some fantastic deal on a video card, and you could use with a new video card, then you're in a much better position to take advantage of that deal. Everything is much more modular and so if you need to throw in a new PSU along with it, you don't have to worry about any custom power adapters, non-standard form factors, tight fits, etc. You also know every single component in the system, and have the peace of mind of the research you did to back up the decision that that particular component was the best one for your unique situation at the time.

The prebuilt route is for those of us who either don't really have the skill and/or inclination to go to all the trouble of building something. I used to build my own computers, and then I got a job working as a hardware tech, which very quickly put me off of that idea. After spending all day wrist deep in other people's computers, the last thing I really wanted to do when I got home was more of the same with my own computer. Personally I am content just buying a name brand system, the extended warranty to go with it, and making it someone else's problem if something breaks. I of course do know that I can always step in and take over if needed, and that there's no way they're going to BS me about what's wrong. I've generally moved over to consoles for the bulk of my gaming needs, so I also don't really need to upgrade very often. One other thing I do find kind of handy about OEM systems is that they typically come with some kind of hardware diagnostic program. With custom builds, something goes wrong, you're on your own to figure it out, or you're using a hodgepodge of different tools that only cover a specific component.

You can kind of split the difference with places that will let you pick from a menu of components and build a system. Trouble is that it can be difficult to find a reputable place for this sort of thing. The profit margins tend to be so razor thin, that there's a lot of pressure to cut corners wherever possible. I think that is clearly demonstrated by some of the comments already given.

If you're willing to put in the time and effort, there's no beating a custom built system if you ask me, but the catch is that it is a rather significant investment of time, energy, and money. Only you can really decide if you're willing to invest that level of resources into it. If you can find a reputable place for a custom build, even better, but otherwise you're probably going to be better off buying a name brand, the extended warranty to go with it (for however long you anticipate having the system), and spending your time on something you enjoy doing.
 
In terms of price, you can probably get a pre-built PC cheaper cause they'll get some of their stuff like mobo and PSU cheaper cause they'll be buying in bulk. They'll also be buying from the lowest bidder. So while you could save some money I'd rather have top of the line gear like Corsair power supplies and Asus motherboards for not really that much more and if you catch things on sale, you won't be spending hardly anything more.
 
ChaosNightWolf said:
I'm being brought back to the [H]ard side.....

(That doesn't sound gay, does it???)
Click to expand...

How much are your time and money worth? Which one has more value to you?

cl-scott brought up a good point in that you should consider a (good) prebuilt system (from a recommended vender -- listen to Danny Bui on this one) if you don't have the time or motivation to assemble a system yourself. However, you will pay a premium that (simply put) compensates the vendor for labor costs and covering everything under a warranty.
 
If you find a super deal then you could go for it. My previous PC was $300 and lasted for 3yrs. You cant beat that, but it was always humming (being overtaxed)

Otherwise, build yourself. Even buying the parts and paying to build it is better.

I read in a PC building book that store bought PCs are cheaply constructed by skimping on parts because its for profit.

They'll use cheap cables, motherboards, and other parts people may not pay attention too. They will happily use a $35 motherboard if they can. On brand names and parts people look for, like video cards and CPUs, they try to get slightly different models, parts with slower clocks, OEM, etc. This way they save and still benefit from the brand name

So yes your self-build will cost more, but that's because (according to the book):
-You didn't get that $35 mobo
-"theres no way I was putting that piece of $#!@ on my computer."
-You got the cheapest quality parts available. Not the cheapest P.O.S. available.

Hope that helps.

P.S. I forgot the name of the book. sorry
 
ALWAYS build your own PC, that way you know what is in it and what is installed on it.

It is way cheaper to build your own PC anyway. Unless you are misinformed I don't see any reason to buy a store bought PC unless its a Laptop.
 
I've been able to spec out PCs comparable to that iBuyPower garbage with name brand parts for $100 less than what they're asking. Oh and my friends iBuyPower has been nothing but trouble. Sent it in with a dying video card, they sent it back and said nothing was wrong with it. When I plug the card into different systems, they won't even POST. Pretty sure they charged him for the "diagnostic" as well.
 
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

I'll be using this PC primarily for gaming and recording/rendering video that I capture from my game consoles. I'm looking to start a YouTube gaming channel soon.


2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

My budget is around $1000. Tax and Shipping are not included.


3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

I live in the United States. I'm from Brooklyn, New York.


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

I will need a case, power supply, CPU, Motherboard, Memory, and SSD. I'm planning on purchasing a video card later in the future.


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

The only parts I will be resuing are my monitor, keyboard, mouse and disk drive


6) Will you be overclocking?

Overclocking is NOT a priority.


7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

I own the ASUS VS229H-P. It's 21.5". I'm unsure of it's max resolution


8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

As soon as parts are decided on

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.

I'm assuming I will not need onboard video because my processor will handle that. I'd like good sound quality, but I'm assuming a discrete audio card would be better for that. So, I have no special needs


10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I have a legit copy of Windows 7 64bit
 
So far, the parts I'm considering are:

Case: Corsair Obsidian 550d

CPU; Intel Core i5 3570k

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme 4

SSD: OCZ Vertex 4

I'm still deciding on other parts.
 
Looks good, but I'd get a Crucial M4 instead. OCZ isn't well known for their SSDs, even with the Vertex 4.
 
Here's what I recommend:

$225 - Corsair 550D and Corsair TX750 V2 combo deal
$339 - Intel Core i5-3570K and Asus P8Z77-V LK combo deal (use promo code EMCNCHN38, expires 7/26)
$45 - G.Skill Ares F3-1600C9D-8GAB 2x4GB DDR3 1600
$180 - Crucial M4 256GB SSD
=====
$789 - Total shipped (not including taxes or rebates)

I checked the NewEgg page on the Asus VS229H-P and it has a 1920x1080 resolution.

I don't like the motherboard or SSD you chose. HardOCP discovered that the overall performance of the AsRock boards they've reviewed have been inconsistent at best, especially during overclocking. As for the SSD, OCZ has a long history of quality and customer service issues to the point that many users refuse to look at its products. To be fair, many people here who have used AsRock and OCZ products have vouched for their reliability. However, I'm not one of them.

In their place, I went with the Asus P8Z77-V LK and the Crucial M4, respectively. The Asus P8Z77-V LK has most of the same features as the AsRock Z77 Extreme 4 (save for the latter's two additional SATA 6Gbps ports), but it currently has a combo deal that makes it more competitively priced (in addition to the savings you get from the processor/motherboard combo deal).

The Crucial M4 is one of the SSDs we normally recommend here for overall performance and reliability. Amazon currently has it on sale, which is why I chose it over, say, the Samsung 830. 256GB should give you more than enough storage for your primary programs and the games you're currently playing.

I took advantage of the Corsair 550D's combo deals and paired it with the Corsair TX750 V2 power supply. As for the RAM, I went with a good brand (G.Skill in general) that use low heatspreader to prevent any potential conflict with large CPU coolers.

Speaking of which, you have some money for a few other things, like a good CPU cooler (for any overclocking you wish to do) or additional fans for your case. Then again, you could save it for that eventual video card purchase....
 
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Man you guys are good. Thanks a lot tiraides.

Any recommendations for a case? I'm not hell bent on the Corsair 550d or any of the other parts, I'm just looking for good deals.
 
azeem40 said:
The Corsair 500R is $110 on newegg.
Click to expand...

I seem to have missed that... is that after mail-in rebates or some limited-time promotion code?

I don't have Danny Bui's complete list of cases, but one case that has been recommended a lot recently is the NZXT Source 210 Elite. For about $50 shipped (currently at Amazon), you get a case with a lot of features typically reserved for cases that cost around twice as much.

If you went that route, however, you'd lose the combo deals savings on the power supply. Fortunately, the TX750 V2 has a combo deal with some Corsair Vengeance memory:

$150 - Corsair TX750 v2 and Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600 combo deal

So, if you go with the above case and combo deal, while sticking with the i5-3570K/P8Z77-V LK combo deal and SSD, the total would drop down to about $719 shipped. You may still want to buy a decent CPU cooler and a couple of fans.
 
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tiraides, is it okay if I start a new thread asking for help choosing PC parts? Or should I only continue in this thread since it's already move to that subject?
 
We're already making progress towards your new build, so we might as well continue here.
 
Alright, I've decided I'm sticking with the Corsair Obsidian 550d Case, Corsair TX750 Power Supply, Core i7 3570k and ASUS P8Z77 for sure.

As far as the memory is concerned, what are some factors to use when judging memory?

With the SSD, I'm on the fence still. Is the M4 really better than the Vertex 4? I thought the Vertex 4 was faster? Newegg has the 128 gb model for $120 right now. That kind of makes me feel like it's a better deal, but I'm not all that familiar with SSD's as it is.
 
ChaosNightWolf said:
Alright, I've decided I'm sticking with the Corsair Obsidian 550d Case, Corsair TX750 Power Supply, Core i7 3570k and ASUS P8Z77 for sure.

As far as the memory is concerned, what are some factors to use when judging memory?

With the SSD, I'm on the fence still. Is the M4 really better than the Vertex 4? I thought the Vertex 4 was faster? Newegg has the 128 gb model for $120 right now. That kind of makes me feel like it's a better deal, but I'm not all that familiar with SSD's as it is.
Click to expand...

The reason why we're not currently recomending the Vertex 4 is that it's from OCZ, a company with a history of shady business practices and poor customer and technical support.
 
ChaosNightWolf said:
As far as the memory is concerned, what are some factors to use when judging memory?
Click to expand...

I use the following: reliable brand name (like Corsair, Crucial, G.Skill, etc.); lifetime warranty; 1.5V or lower. With Sandy Bridge, all you need is DDR3 1333 RAM; Ivy Bridge "likes" DDR3 1600 RAM. (What I mean is various reviews of IVB processors showed slightly better performance with DDR3 1600 RAM, but they mainly skewed towards overclocking performance.)

ChaosNightWolf said:
With the SSD, I'm on the fence still. Is the M4 really better than the Vertex 4? I thought the Vertex 4 was faster? Newegg has the 128 gb model for $120 right now. That kind of makes me feel like it's a better deal, but I'm not all that familiar with SSD's as it is.
Click to expand...

The Vertex 4 is faster than the Crucial M4, but OCZ has a poor history of reliability. That's a deal-breaker for me.
 
I'm going with all the parts you've suggested tiraides.

At that price, I've got a few extra dollars to play around with. I'm considering a water cooler, a capture card, or a sub $200 GPU for basic gaming.

Any suggestions?
 
Save the money towards a better GPU or grab a larger SSD.
 
ChaosNightWolf said:
I'm going with all the parts you've suggested tiraides.

At that price, I've got a few extra dollars to play around with. I'm considering a water cooler, a capture card, or a sub $200 GPU for basic gaming.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I recommend this as the bare minimum you should look for in a video card:

$330 - MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Radeon HD 7950

If you're willing to make a few changes, like:

$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite
$112 - Crucial M4 128GB SSD
$150 - Corsair TX750 v2 and Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600 combo deal
$339 - Intel Core i5-3570K and Asus P8Z77-V LK combo deal (use promo code EMCNCHN38, expires 7/26)
$330 - MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Radeon HD 7950
=====
$981 - Total shipped (not including taxes or rebates)

... You could fit the everything within your $1000 budget. Add the Hyper 212 Plus (currently on sale at Amazon) and you'd barely bust your budget (the total with the CPU cooler would come to about $1,006 shipped).
 
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I'm not willing to change the case. My previous computer broke partially because the case built so much dust that the parts were effected. I told myself never again would I settle for a less than premium case.

I'm going to forget buying a video card because I don't feel I can get a good one within my budget. I'll wait until I have more money.

So far I have the following:

Corsair Obsidian 550d & Corsair TX750 V2 Combo Deal: $224.98

Intel Core i5 3570k & ASUS P8Z77-V LK Combo Deal: $344.98

G,Skill RipJaws 8GB PC3 12800: $45,99

OCZ Vertex 4 128gb: $119.99

Total = $735.94


I'm going to be stubborn and insist on the Vertex 4 for two reasons. The first is I want to purchase all my parts from NewEgg for a bit more convenience. The second is that I'm willing to take the risk of poor customer support in favor of a drive that's a bit faster. Unless you guys absolutely insist on NOT getting it, I'm willing to take a bit of a risk.

The only other parts I'm concerned with now is either a good water cooling unit like the H100, or a capture card. Does anyone have any advice on which would be a good capture card?

So unless there is something I'm forgetting, I'm pretty much going with that build.
 
I absolutely insist on not getting that OCZ SSD.

As for capture card, ask about that in the HTPC subforum or the PC gaming subforum. But I don't think you'll have the budget for that.
 
I see. Looks like the Vertex 4 is out. Is the Crucial M4 the best SSD in that price range now?

Also, I'm willing to increase my budget for either a good video card or a good capture device.

My new question is whether or not I need a good video card so I can do video editing in the first place? It's pretty pointless to buy a capture card and not have the ability to do video editing effectively.
 
ChaosNightWolf said:
I see. Looks like the Vertex 4 is out. Is the Crucial M4 the best SSD in that price range now?
Click to expand...
One of the best. The Samsung 830 has had some recent sales that puts it in the price range of the Crucial m4.

ChaosNightWolf said:
My new question is whether or not I need a good video card so I can do video editing in the first place? It's pretty pointless to buy a capture card and not have the ability to do video editing effectively.
Click to expand...
Depend on what video editing app you're using. Some video editing apps won't take advantage of the GPU at all while some will totally take advantage of the GPU.
 
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