Building uATX Lanrig - requesting critique

[aces155]

1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, Photoshop (or other intensive programs), Overclocking, Web browsing, strictly HTPC/Playback, etc. (If you have multiple things you want to do with the system, make sure you rank them from most important to least important). Gaming (Skyrim, BF3, etc), Photoshop, Web Browsing, Movies. No overclocking.

2. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

$1,500 or less. Preferably less so he can still get a good headphone / mouse / keyboard setup.

3. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

Olympia, WA - no car.

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Mobo
Case
CPU
CPU cooler
RAM
GPU
HDD
SSD
PSU
Monitor
Carrying case
Mouse
Keyboard
Wifi Card



6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

SATA 6Gb/s - wanted

USB 3.0 - wanted

Expandable slot for Wifi card - needed

7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p, 720p, DVD quality, etc for HTPC or list Vertical/horizontal resolution for non-HTPC SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output? 1080p Single Monitor for gaming

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc. Small enough to share a desk with another person.

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)? Standard computer screwdrivers and a sodering iron.


10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care Not a wind tunnel but doesn't need to be ultra quiet.

11. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Mobile enough for Lanparties. Prefer a good carrying pack than a case with handles.

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards OEM Win 7 64bit

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years? This week


So my friend is paying me to put together a system for his son. He wants a rig he can easily take to lanparties but is much more upgradeable than a gaming laptop. I suggested a uATX or mITX build and he suggested I put something together for him. The requirements were it had to be better than the laptop he was considering and roughly the same price.

Here is the laptop.

Here is what I came up with on my own.

Case: LIAN LI PC-V351B Black Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case

GPU: EVGA GTX 570 2560MB

Motherboard: ASRock Z68 PRO3-M

CPU: Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz

PSU: CORSAIR Professional Series HX650

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 1600

SSD: Crucial M4 128GB SSD

Monitor: Acer S220HQLAbd

This is what I have so far. Any suggestions?

 

[Amzee]

I'd recommend this motherboard if you can afford it, or this one if you don't like the price, but the features of the Gene-Z are very nice. AsRock boards aren't known to be the most reliable things around, even if they are good deals.

You don't need 16GB of memory, especially for gaming. A value pack of 8GB like this one should be plenty.

If you can deal with non-modular, this PSU is at a great price right now, while it's on sale. I believe their OEM for this line is SeaSonic, so you are still getting a quality PSU. If you do want modular, this SeaSonic is also very nice, and were it not for the sale, it would have been my first recommendation.

As for cases, unless you really want that cube-PC look, there are a lot of options with better airflow. The NZXT Vulcan (Out of Stock on Newegg) is cheaper, has a handle for taking it to LAN Parties, and has much better cooling. If you'd prefer a more toned-down look, the Silverstone TJ08B is also very popular.

Hope this all helps!

EDIT: Upon rereading, I should also mention that the Gene-Z is not necessary if you aren't going to be overclocking, the cheaper Asus is probably a better choice.

EDIT #2: Also, at $400, even with the 2.5GB of memory, it's probably not worth it for a last-gen card. $60 more can get you a much better Radeon HD 7950. I also believe this one comes with the XFX lifetime warranty, but you might want to check that first.

 

[Dangman]

I concur with Amzee's recommendations.

However, if you can buy within the next 5 days, I highly recommend getting this Seasonic with if you can use the $30 off promo:
$140 - Seasonic X650 Gold 650W Modular PSU ($30 off w/ promo code SAVE30, ends 3/16)

It's of higher quality than any of the PSUs listed in this thread so far.

 

[Mosher]

Hmmm... well...
If you are getting a non K series CPU, you thought about just going mITX? Getting one of the H boards, a SG08 (comes with PSU), and call it a day? If it's a lan rig, then being that small with the same performance you would get otherwise can have it's advantages.

NZXT Vulcan is a decent case for making lan rig in me thinks though, but you wouldn't be able to fit it "In" the bag of stuff like the SG08

 

[Amzee]

Hmmm... well...
If you are getting a non K series CPU, you thought about just going mITX? Getting one of the H boards, a SG08 (comes with PSU), and call it a day? If it's a lan rig, then being that small with the same performance you would get otherwise can have it's advantages.

NZXT Vulcan is a decent case for making lan rig in me thinks though, but you wouldn't be able to fit it "In" the bag of stuff like the SG08

A SG05BB-450 could also fit everything including the GTX 570, if he chooses to stick with it, as I believe the 2.5GB version is a shortened PCB model.

 

[Zap]

Here is what I came up with on my own.

Case: LIAN LI PC-V351B Black Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case

GPU: EVGA GTX 570 2560MB

Motherboard: ASRock Z68 PRO3-M

CPU: Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz

PSU: CORSAIR Professional Series HX650

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 1600

SSD: Crucial M4 128GB SSD

Monitor: Acer S220HQLAbd

This is what I have so far. Any suggestions?

Drop RAM to 8GB.

Right NOW that isn't a good graphics card value. Either get an AMD 7000 series, or get a GTX 560 Ti 448 core with half the RAM. Case choice may also affect graphics card choice because the AMD cards are longer.

IMO the ASRock board is just fine, and can even overclock.

mATX cube cases are not that great for saving desk space, because they take up more of it. For LAN parties most people stash their towers behind their LCD monitor, with keyboard/mouse in front. Cube cases are wider, so wouldn't fit as well. I'd either go with a mATX mini tower (Lian Li PC-A04, In Win Dragon Slayer, etc.) or as suggested consider going down to mini ITX.

PSU is overkill. For a single graphics card you can get by with something in the 500W range, especially with a stock clocked Sandy Bridge CPU and one SSD barely sipping power. Also, while there is every need to avoid "crap" power supplies, there is no need to get "the best."

SSD is a decent choice. A couple things to think about:
1) How much disk space will the kid be needing? Most people either get a HDD to augment the SSD, or get a larger SSD.
2) There are alternatives which are "equivalent" to the Crucial M4. By that I mean other manufacturers use the same/similar Marvell controller, thus with drives that are functionally equivalent. Examples are the Intel 510 series (much more expensive, longer warranty), Plextor M3 (sometimes cheaper, longer warranty), Plextor M2P, heck I think even Corsair has Marvell based SSDs now.

 

[Amzee]

Drop RAM to 8GB.

Right NOW that isn't a good graphics card value. Either get an AMD 7000 series, or get a GTX 560 Ti 448 core with half the RAM. Case choice may also affect graphics card choice because the AMD cards are longer.

IMO the ASRock board is just fine, and can even overclock.

mATX cube cases are not that great for saving desk space, because they take up more of it. For LAN parties most people stash their towers behind their LCD monitor, with keyboard/mouse in front. Cube cases are wider, so wouldn't fit as well. I'd either go with a mATX mini tower (Lian Li PC-A04, In Win Dragon Slayer, etc.) or as suggested consider going down to mini ITX.

PSU is overkill. For a single graphics card you can get by with something in the 500W range, especially with a stock clocked Sandy Bridge CPU and one SSD barely sipping power. Also, while there is every need to avoid "crap" power supplies, there is no need to get "the best."

SSD is a decent choice. A couple things to think about:
1) How much disk space will the kid be needing? Most people either get a HDD to augment the SSD, or get a larger SSD.
2) There are alternatives which are "equivalent" to the Crucial M4. By that I mean other manufacturers use the same/similar Marvell controller, thus with drives that are functionally equivalent. Examples are the Intel 510 series (much more expensive, longer warranty), Plextor M3 (sometimes cheaper, longer warranty), Plextor M2P, heck I think even Corsair has Marvell based SSDs now.

Yep, the 560 Ti 448-core is a great care, I'd recommend this one, since its the cheapest, or the same price after rebate, and has the best cooling system.

 

[aces155]

I talked it over with my friend and I tried to get them to choose an ITX build. That would be my first choice, but they were harping on wanting more ram - the Laptop had 12GB; no idea how fast it is but that didn't matter to them since they don't know much about ram speeds.

If I went down to an ITX board do any of you have one you can reccommend that has an optical out and space for a wifi card? I suggested if he saved money and got a decent ITX build he could use the extra cash and get a DSS2 from Turtle Beach and a pair of AD700 Headphones and really knock some socks off.

 

[Dangman]

That would be my first choice, but they were harping on wanting more ram - the Laptop had 12GB; no idea how fast it is but that didn't matter to them since they don't know much about ram speeds.

For current Intel CPUs, ram speed doesn't really matter.

If I went down to an ITX board do any of you have one you can reccommend that has an optical out and space for a wifi card?

There are three motherboards that fits those exact requirements but they're poor buys:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=

The ZOTAC mobos are very overpriced while I generally don't recommend AsRock. Their quality just doesn't justify their price.

If you can use a USB wifi adapter rather than a mini-PCI-E wifi adapter like with the abvoe three mITX motherboards and/or want a more reputable brand, I recommend this Intel:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121507

 

[Machupo]

If you still want 16GB of ram in an mITX build, you can always get a 2x8GB kit (I have the Geil Corsa version with removed heatspreaders) for only $16 more than your currently selected ram.

 

[Amzee]

Alright, I threw together a basic ITX build to get us started, and we can go from here:

Case - $120 - Silverstone Sugo SG05BB-450
Motherboard - $120 - Intel H67 ITX
CPU - $190 - Intel Core i5-2400
GPU - $280 - MSI Twin Frozr GTX 560 Ti 448 Core
SSD - $175 - Crucial M4 128GB
HDD - $86 - Seagate Barracuda 500GB HDD
ODD - $30 - Lite-On Slim DVD Burner
ODD Adapter Cable - $6 - Slim Sata to Regular Sata Cable
Memory - $38 - G. Skill Value Memory
OS - $100 - Windows 7 Home Premium OEM
Wi-Fi Adapter - $13 - Micro Wi-Fi 802.11b/g/n Adapter
Carrying Case - $42 - Silverstone Sugo Series Carrying Bag
------------------------------
Total: ~$1200

---Peripherals---
These are just some peripherals I put together quickly, they vary based on preference, you may not want a mechanical keyboard or you may have a certain mouse preference, or whatever. I'd suggest you ask the respective sections of the forum for advice in those areas.
Display - $120 - Acer 1080p 21.5"
Mouse - $42 - Logitech G400
Keyboard - $150 - Das Keyboard Professional Silent




Feel free to comment/add to this if anybody has other ideas for a mini-ITX rendition.

 

[aces155]

Thanks Amzee. That looks just perfect. I'd probably ditch the 500GB drive for now and get the Gskill Gaming ram but otherwise that is exactly what we want.

Anyone else feel free to chime in - I don't know much about that motherboard.

 

[aces155]

Do you think ram with heatsinks will fit inside an ITX case?

 

[Dangman]

Do you think ram with heatsinks will fit inside an ITX case?

Depends on what kind of RAM heatsinks you're talking about and what CPU heatsink you're using.

 

[Amzee]

Do you think ram with heatsinks will fit inside an ITX case?

They most likely will because you are using the stock intel cooler, but, tbh, you don't need ram heatsinks unless you have some ridiculous overclock on them.

 

[aces155]

Do you think inside such a small case the processor should be fine for long gaming sessions with the stock cooler? I know my i7 reaches up to 60c playing Skyrim in my Antec 1200 case.

 

[Amzee]

Do you think inside such a small case the processor should be fine for long gaming sessions with the stock cooler? I know my i7 reaches up to 60c playing Skyrim in my Antec 1200 case.

I'd think it would be fine, 60c isn't really anything to worry about, it is a bit high, but, remember, the SG05's PSU is sucking the heat out from above the CPU cooler and through the back of the case too, adding to the ventilation.

 

[Machupo]

which the next question which leads is how long is the psu good for sucking in hot air?

 

[aces155]

PSUs are pretty good at that, so I am not too worried. I have no idea what the heat will be on this, so I have no way of saying it will be like mine. Even if it is we can always get an aftermarket cooler later.

Anyways. To put this topic to rest I am going to let you all know we bought the parts. Essentially it was Amzee's build except we went with an SG08. It is a bit larger and has more power (600w instead of 450w), so if they choose to get a better GPU later there is space for it.

We also ended up getting a Roccat Tusko; the Sugo bag; a TP-LINK USB Wifi adapter; a G110 Keyboard; a G500 mouse; a Steel Series 2HD gaming pad; and a Turtle Beach X12 headset.

An entire mobile lanrig for $1500.

Not bad at all. Thanks for all your help!