Building new PC -- recommedations please?

S

Soulstice

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
1,104
Hey everyone,

I haven't built myself a new system in ages. I gave up gaming over two years back as I felt it was a complete waste of time in my adult life, and I generally use a well equipped laptop for my IT consulting business. In fact, for convenience sake, I'm thinking of giving up the dual-core 15.4-inch laptop for a newer lighter netbook (2 GB RAM and a large fast hard disk). I mean, other than gaming and high-end multimedia (vid editing, etc.), there's no need to run anything beyonod an Intel P3 / P4 or Athlon XP with a lot of RAM and fast hard disk. lol

Anyway, enough with the rant...

...About 4 months back, I ported my previous home-office / gaming desktop (AMD Athlon x2 4600+, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 7800 GS, Abit NF-M2 mATX, etc) over to the living room of my condo and it now serves solely as my multimedia HD all-in-one for my TV and high-end stereo equipment . Although gaming on the 37" TV would be ideal, it's a luxury that only presents itself when my girlfriend isn't hanging out in there listening to music... ...and, when I'm in there... I take advantage of the listening to music and watching indy films.... ...so, gaming is far removed from my mind.

Anyway, recently, with the economic situation, and increased costs of snowboarding, I've been finding myself hanging out at home more often. This is why I have now decided to build a second system for gaming... ...now that I have some time again, I think I may get back into it. The laptop is great for work-specific shit, but I have no intention of spending thousands of dollars on a higher-end laptop to serve as an all-in-one business / gaming machine. Rather, since I'm heading toward getting a netbook for my business anyway, it would be nice to setup a powerful gaming-only system, that would also serve to host some of my studio equipment (Tascam US-122, etc.) I'm not looking to spend an any more than $400. Due to the perks of working in IT, I already have the following available to me just sitting in a closet:

Chassis: Antec P182
PSU: Antec TruePower 450 W PSU
Hard Drive(s): 2 x Western Digital Velociraptor WD1500HLFS, 1 x 300 GB Maxtor SATA2 16 MB cache
Optical Drive: LG 20x DVD-R/RW with light-scribe


So, how can I best use $400 to create a fast gaming system. I definitely want quad-core, as some of the newer games recommend it (GTA4, etc.)... ....and I've seen a Phenom processor for less than $145 CD. As for motherboard, I could careless about CrossFire and/or SLI, because I won't be purchasing a second expensive video card... ...although, if I can get a motherboard supporting this for only a bit more than a standard board, then I'll consider it.
I definitely want at least 4 GB memory, but preferably 6 GB to 8 GB... ...of course, the question becomes "should I stick with DDR2 or make the jump to DDR3". I saw 4 GB of dual-channel DDR2-800 (2 x 2 GB, OCZ CAS4) last week on special for $29 after mail-in rebate... ...so I could potentially have 8 GB for under $100.

In terms of band-for-the-buck video card, what are my options? Recommendations please. Basically, if you had $400 to play with, and already had a case, fast hard drives, and an optical drive, what would you purchase with you money?

BTW.. I am aware that I may be forced to upgrade my PSU due to the requirements of today's power requirements specific to graphics cards, but I guess I'll leave that up to you guys to determine.

Thanks in advance.
 
A few questions that need to be answered:
- Will you be overclocking?
- What size monitor will you be gaming on?
- Where do you live?
- $400 for CPU, RAM, mobo, PSU and video card correct?

Soulstice said:
BTW.. I am aware that I may be forced to upgrade my PSU due to the requirements of today's power requirements specific to graphics cards, but I guess I'll leave that up to you guys to determine.
Click to expand...

No you'll be upgrading the PSU since the TruePower series were well known for their above average failure rate. As a result, I would not trust that PSU with a gaming system. If that PSU is still within Antec's 3 year warranty, hook up that PSU to a working system and see if theres a squeal/whine of sorts when the system is on then off. If there is a squeal/whine, RMA that PSU back to Antec and you'll get a decent quality Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU in return.

If that PSU is out of warranty, I recommend getting a new PSU then.
 
Thanks for the quick response.

A few questions that need to be answered:
- Will you be overclocking?
- What size monitor will you be gaming on?
- Where do you live?
- $400 for CPU, RAM, mobo, PSU and video card correct?
Click to expand...

Overclocking: I haven't overclocked a system since the Althon / Duron 700 and 800 MHz days. However, this has been more to do with laziness and simply throwing more money at the processor when necessary than anything else. If there are certain processors today which can guarantee me a significant overclock (e.g. save money by purchasing a lessor processor, and then OC it) then I'm willing to go that route. Keep in mind though, I'm not willing to shoot myself in the foot. Back in high-school and my early years in college, I oc'd for jokes and bragging rights... ...nothing more. In fact, once I factored in the cost of additional fans, extreme cooling measures (such as costly heatsinks, etc.) it often would cost much more to OC than to simply purchase a higher clocked processor. Since I could careless about posting my MHz gain on forums these days, my only incentive to OC is saving money.

Monitor: 19" (Max Res of 1280x1024). However, if I do ever go to a larger monitor, the next step will be HDTV-type resolutions... ...1920x1080, 1260x768, etc. I'm not interested in purchasing a 24" monitor and running shit at resolutions of 2600 x 1800 or other insanely ridiculous resolutions. I'd be more inclined to replace my 19 inch in my office with a 32-inch HDTV for $375... ...and game at 720P. ;)

Location: Toronto, Canada... ...home to NCIX, Canada Computers, TigerDirect, etc. Although, NewEgg now has a Canadian division. :p

And, yes... $400 or $450 for everything. I'm willing to stretch the budget if it provides more sensible upgrade (e.g. purchase a $175 vid card over a $125 vid card provides a 100% performance increase, etc.).
 
Jsut want to make absolutely sure about this: $400 to 450 CAD for the CPU, RAM, mobo, PSU and video card correct?
 
Jsut want to make absolutely sure about this: $400 to 450 CAD for the CPU, RAM, mobo, PSU and video card correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, this is correct. As stated above, if I go the DDR2 route, I can pretty much obtain 8 GB of memory for under $80 - $100. I've seen some very solid AM2+ mainboards for around $80 (single PCIe16 slot, etc, but still solid...). That leaves almost $300 for processor and video card. As mentioned, a Phenom quad-core can be had for $150, and a 9800 GT can be had for $100... ...that still leaves me $50 to play with. I just want recommendations on the best combination of components. For instance, maybe I should go with just 4 GB of memory to start, and spend the extra $50 upgrading the video card to something better... ...or getting a better motherboard, or maybe I should spend $200 on the processor, because some of the newer games are less video-card dependent and are now beginning to utilize multiple cores to the full extent, etc.

You guys are the gaming gurus / experts, so any advice is much appreciated.
 
Working off Danny Bui buid. I would adjust a few items

Video Card - EVGA Geforce 9800GT for $135($15 MIR) from NCIX.com
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?affiliateid=4352418&sku=34749&promoid=1016

PSU - Corsair 400CX PSU for $65($10 MIR) from NCIX.com
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33357&vpn=CMPSU-400CX&manufacture=CORSAIR


Danny Bui said:
AMD Phenom 9750 CPU - $176 CAD
Biostar A740G M2+ AMD 740G mATX motherboard - $74 CAD
Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) KVR800D2N5K2/4G DDR2 800 RAM - $46 CAD
eVGA 512-P3-N971-TR GeForce 9800 GT 512MB PCI-E Video Card - $150 CAD
Antec Earthwatts EA430 430W - $49 CAD
---
Total: $496 CAD plus tax and shipping

Right mix of price to performance IMO.
Click to expand...
 
If the EA430 were still $49CAD, I'd suggest keeping that over the 400CX. However, it looks like the EA430 is now $85, lol, so go with HG's suggestion.

Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2 is a cheaper option, or you can get a 780G for the same price with the Biostar A780G M2+ SE.
 
Okay, I think I'm almost ready to place the order online. I based the configuration on all the advice given above, but also accounted for price updates and a bit my own logic. Let me know what you all think:


CPU:

AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HD985ZXAGHBOX - Retail -- $180 (NewEgg.ca)

Reason: Priced $10 cheaper than the 145W 9950 and $20 cheaper than the 125W 9950. Makes sense to save the $20, 'cause I'm pretty sure that I can get any of these CPUs to clock between 2.8 and 3.2 GHz on quality air cooling. I decided to go with AMD over Intel, because the Q6600 OEM does not include a heatsink / fan combo, and that would have added another $40 - $70. After evaluating the default AMD heatsink included in the retail packaging, I'm pretty freakin' impressed... ...AMD has come along way with their coolers... ...4 heat pipes, huge heatsink, etc. I should be able to get this system running at good temps and 2.8 GHz with default cooling, and probably up to 3.2 GHz or higher with added voltage and a high-quality air-cooling solution (later if necessary).




PSU (A few options):

a) OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ600MXSP 600W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $110 - $25 USD rebate = $85
b) OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $135 - 45 USD rebate = $90
c) OCZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $115 - $30 USD rebate = $85
d) BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.8 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $91 - $20 USD rebate = $71
e) OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS 500W ATX12V / EPS12V Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $75 - 35 USD rebate = $40


Reason: All are excellent PSUs. All received excellent reviews. I prefer modularized design, but not willing to pay an arm
and a leg for it. Hence, although I like the ModXStream Pro, I'm leaning more toward the OCZ StealthXStream 500W or BFG. Any advice? Which supply
do you recommend listed above? Also, I have a large Antec case, as mentioned at the very top of the thread. The PSU sits in the bottom, so the
motherboard power connectors ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE VERY LONG. I would like to avoid having to purchase extenders, as they
add cost and unnecessary noise to the circuit. Which of the above provides the longest connectors? If a spend the extra
$30 or $40 and go with a 700 W unit such as option b or c, will I be future proofing myself for years to come, or just
adding unnecessary cost to the sytem. If I SLI, it will probably be two 9800 GTs or two ATI 4830s... ...it won't be one of
the newer $600 vid cards. Any advice is always appreciated. :)



Memory (A few options):

a) G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL6D-4GBNQ - Retail --- $55
b) WINTEC AMPX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 3AXT8500C5-4096K - Retail --- $59
b) Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KHX8500D2K2/4GR - Retail --- $62
d) OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR10664GK - Retail --- $82 - $30 USD rebate = $52
e) CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-8500C5D - Retail --- $84 - $30 USD rebate = $54

Reason: All seem to be priced well. I'm leaning toward either the WINTEC AMPX (no mail-in rebate hassle, and CAS timings are excellent), the OCZ Reaper, or Corsair Dominator.
Please advise... ...which would you recommend?



Motherboard (A few options):

a) BIOSTAR TFORCE TA780G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail --- $85 - $15 USD = $70
b) ECS NFORCE9M-A(1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail --- $74 - $10 USD rebate = $64
c) ZOTAC NF750A-A-E AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail -- $109
c) BIOSTAR TFORCE TA790GX3 A2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail --- $135


Reason: I like BIOSTAR, but the board only support a max of 16 GB. The ECS board supports up to 32 GB. Apparently,
the NFORCE9M / ECS combination provides a lot of BIOS tweaking, but I know from past experience that ECS boards usually
do not OC well, or provide little to no OC options. The best board is obviously the BIOSTAR TFORCE with
dual PCIx16 slots for future SLI consideration; however, this will break the budget restraints set earlier.
Anyone have any experience with the above boards? Recommendations? Also, Zotac board got either extremely good reviews,
or horrible reviews (forums, not Websites). Any experience with Zotac boards?



Video Card (A few options):

a) XFX PVT98GYDLH GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail --- $155 - $30 USD rebate = $125
b) ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail --- $158 - $25 USD rebate = $133
c) POWERCOLOR AX4850 512MD3-DH Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail --- $171 - $20 USD rebate = $151
d) HIS Hightech H485FN512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail --- $177 - $10 USD rebate = $167

Reason: I originally had my mind set on a 9800GT, but I can now pick up a ATI 4850 for $150. What do you recommend... ...the 4850 or 9800GT?
Remember, I will be gaming on either a standard 19" LCD (1280x1024) or HDTV (1280x720 or 1920x1080). Hence, I don't care about
resolutions above 1920x1080, but I do care about AF, AA, HDR, etc.


I'd like to place the order ASAP, so please advise and let me know if I should change anything up, or go with something not listed in my research.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Okay, I think I'm almost ready to place the order online. I based the configuration on all the advice given above, but also accounted for price updates and a bit my own logic. Let me know what you all think:


CPU:

AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HD985ZXAGHBOX - Retail -- $180 (NewEgg.ca)

Reason: Priced $10 cheaper than the 145W 9950 and $20 cheaper than the 125W 9950. Makes sense to save the $20, 'cause I'm pretty sure that I can get any of these CPUs to clock between 2.8 and 3.2 GHz on quality air cooling. I decided to go with AMD over Intel, because the Q6600 OEM does not include a heatsink / fan combo, and that would have added another $40 - $70. After evaluating the default AMD heatsink included in the retail packaging, I'm pretty freakin' impressed... ...AMD has come along way with their coolers... ...4 heat pipes, huge heatsink, etc. I should be able to get this system running at good temps and 2.8 GHz with default cooling, and probably up to 3.2 GHz or higher with added voltage and a high-quality air-cooling solution (later if necessary).




PSU (A few options):

a) OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ600MXSP 600W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $110 - $25 USD rebate = $85
b) OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $135 - 45 USD rebate = $90
c) OCZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $115 - $30 USD rebate = $85
d) BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.8 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $91 - $20 USD rebate = $71
e) OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS 500W ATX12V / EPS12V Active PFC Power Supply - Retail --- $75 - 35 USD rebate = $40


Reason: All are excellent PSUs. All received excellent reviews. I prefer modularized design, but not willing to pay an arm
and a leg for it. Hence, although I like the ModXStream Pro, I'm leaning more toward the OCZ StealthXStream 500W or BFG. Any advice? Which supply
do you recommend listed above? Also, I have a large Antec case, as mentioned at the very top of the thread. The PSU sits in the bottom, so the
motherboard power connectors ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE VERY LONG. I would like to avoid having to purchase extenders, as they
add cost and unnecessary noise to the circuit. Which of the above provides the longest connectors? If a spend the extra
$30 or $40 and go with a 700 W unit such as option b or c, will I be future proofing myself for years to come, or just
adding unnecessary cost to the sytem. If I SLI, it will probably be two 9800 GTs or two ATI 4830s... ...it won't be one of
the newer $600 vid cards. Any advice is always appreciated.



Memory (A few options):

a) G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL6D-4GBNQ - Retail --- $55
b) WINTEC AMPX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 3AXT8500C5-4096K - Retail --- $59
b) Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KHX8500D2K2/4GR - Retail --- $62
d) OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR10664GK - Retail --- $82 - $30 USD rebate = $52
e) CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-8500C5D - Retail --- $84 - $30 USD rebate = $54

Reason: All seem to be priced well. I'm leaning toward either the WINTEC AMPX (no mail-in rebate hassle, and CAS timings are excellent), the OCZ Reaper, or Corsair Dominator.
Please advise... ...which would you recommend?



Motherboard (A few options):

a) BIOSTAR TFORCE TA780G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail --- $85 - $15 USD = $70
b) ECS NFORCE9M-A(1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail --- $74 - $10 USD rebate = $64
c) ZOTAC NF750A-A-E AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail -- $109
c) BIOSTAR TFORCE TA790GX3 A2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail --- $135


Reason: I like BIOSTAR, but the board only support a max of 16 GB. The ECS board supports up to 32 GB. Apparently,
the NFORCE9M / ECS combination provides a lot of BIOS tweaking, but I know from past experience that ECS boards usually
do not OC well, or provide little to no OC options. The best board is obviously the BIOSTAR TFORCE with
dual PCIx16 slots for future SLI consideration; however, this will break the budget restraints set earlier.
Anyone have any experience with the above boards? Recommendations? Also, Zotac board got either extremely good reviews,
or horrible reviews (forums, not Websites). Any experience with Zotac boards?



Video Card (A few options):

a) XFX PVT98GYDLH GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail --- $155 - $30 USD rebate = $125
b) ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail --- $158 - $25 USD rebate = $133
c) POWERCOLOR AX4850 512MD3-DH Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail --- $171 - $20 USD rebate = $151
d) HIS Hightech H485FN512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail --- $177 - $10 USD rebate = $167

Reason: I originally had my mind set on a 9800GT, but I can now pick up a ATI 4850 for $150. What do you recommend... ...the 4850 or 9800GT?
Remember, I will be gaming on either a standard 19" LCD (1280x1024) or HDTV (1280x720 or 1920x1080). Hence, I don't care about
resolutions above 1920x1080, but I do care about AF, AA, HDR, etc.


I'd like to place the order ASAP, so please advise and let me know if I should change anything up, or go with something not listed in my research.

Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...


*NOTE 1* -- I bumped my budget to $500 to $550, because anything less was completely unrealistic (given that I want a quad-core semi-highend gaming machine).

*NOTE 2* -- An example configuration from the above parts will amount to the following (before tax and shipping):

AMD 9850 2.5 Ghz Quad-core CPU -- $180
BIOSTAR TFORCE TA790GX3 Motherboard (SLI-capable) -- $135
Corsair Dominator 2 x 2GB dual-channel PC-8500 -- $54
OCZ Stealth Xtreme 500W PSU -- $40
PowerColor ATI 4850 -- $151
---------------------------------------------
TOTAL: $560
 
I don't know the exact figures, but you won't be able to push the Phenom processors as far as you would the Intel Q6600. The boards that you've chosen won't help matters, as the Biostar and ECS models aren't really designed for overclocking.

If overclocking isn't a high priority for you, you could also save some money by getting DDR2 800 memory. In most cases, you'll still be able to obtain a decent overclock.

IIRC, the two OCZ SteathXStream power supplies are based off the FSP Epsilon line, which is known for out-of-spec fluctuations -- aka, ripple -- at high loads. The 700 watt model is more susceptible to ripple than the 500 watt model, but I don't believe that either one is worth the risk -- ripple can damage and/or kill your parts over time. That said, I don't know the full length of the cables and/or whether or not they can navigate well throughout the P182.

Do you really plan on using more than 8GB of RAM?

For jumping between a 19 inch LCD and a 1080p HDTV, go with the HD4850. However, even the HD4850 won't be enough for AA and AF on the HDTV (or, rather, not at the 1920x1080 resolution) -- that's GTX 280, dual-GPU, or SLI/CF territory.
 
The only excellent PSU out of that list is the BFG PSU. All of the OCZ PSUs you listed are based on troublesome PSU platforms that I would rarely recommend. That BFG LS550 is more then enough for 9800GT SLI or HD4830 CF. If you want a 700W+ PSU, go with BFG ES-800, the Corsair 750TX or PC Power&Cooling 750. Any of those PSUs would be FAR better choices than the OCZ PSUs.

RAM wise, just go with eiter the Wintec AMPX, Kingston, or the G.Skill, whichever company you feel comfortable with. I would not recommend the OCZ or Corsair Dominators since they're very overpriced.

Will you honestly ever use 8GB of RAM fully, let alone 16GB or 32GB? No experience with Zotac mobos. Out of the mobos you listed, I only trust the ones made by Biostar.

I recommend the HD4850 since it is a lot faster than the 9800GT.
 
I don't know the exact figures, but you won't be able to push the Phenom processors as far as you would the Intel Q6600. The boards that you've chosen won't help matters, as the Biostar and ECS models aren't really designed for overclocking.

If overclocking isn't a high priority for you, you could also save some money by getting DDR2 800 memory. In most cases, you'll still be able to obtain a decent overclock.

IIRC, the two OCZ SteathXStream power supplies are based off the FSP Epsilon line, which is known for out-of-spec fluctuations -- aka, ripple -- at high loads. The 700 watt model is more susceptible to ripple than the 500 watt model, but I don't believe that either one is worth the risk -- ripple can damage and/or kill your parts over time. That said, I don't know the full length of the cables and/or whether or not they can navigate well throughout the P182.

Do you really plan on using more than 8GB of RAM?

For jumping between a 19 inch LCD and a 1080p HDTV, go with the HD4850. However, even the HD4850 won't be enough for AA and AF on the HDTV (or, rather, not at the 1920x1080 resolution) -- that's GTX 280, dual-GPU, or SLI/CF territory.
Click to expand...

I can't speak from experience regarding the OC capability of the BIOSTAR board, because I've never used it. But, according to this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813138129 , people seem to be having a good OC experience with it. It apparently has many BIOS options, and performs well. Also, I've heard that some are able to push the Q6600 to 3.0 GHz or higher all the way up from it's default of 2.4 GHz, which is amazing. But, the same can be send about the Phenom Black Edition... ...nothing but good stories on the forums about it easily being able to clear 3.0 GHz on decent air-cooling, and able to push 3.2 and higher on high-end air cooling / water-block, etc.

As for the PSUs, thanks for the tip. I wasn't aware of the OCZ issues. All forum posts seem to indicate extremely positive feedback. I'll probably go with the BFG unit.

Finally, the DDR2-800 is priced almost the same as the DDR2-1066, so it makes no sense for me to attempt to cut costs in this area. In fact, in some cases, the DDR2-1066 is priced cheaper. I was pleasantly surprised, because I had originally expected that I would be forced to settle with DDR2-800.
 
Soulstice said:
As for the PSUs, thanks for the tip. I wasn't aware of the OCZ issues. All forum posts seem to indicate extremely positive feedback. I'll probably go with the BFG unit.
Click to expand...

Obviously you didn't check out the PSU subforum here. Otherwise you would have found out about the low quality OCZ PSUs. :)
 
The only excellent PSU out of that list is the BFG PSU. All of the OCZ PSUs you listed are based on troublesome PSU platforms that I would rarely recommend. That BFG LS550 is more then enough for 9800GT SLI or HD4830 CF. If you want a 700W+ PSU, go with BFG ES-800, the Corsair 750TX or PC Power&Cooling 750. Any of those PSUs would be FAR better choices than the OCZ PSUs.

RAM wise, just go with eiter the Wintec AMPX, Kingston, or the G.Skill, whichever company you feel comfortable with. I would not recommend the OCZ or Corsair Dominators since they're very overpriced.

Will you honestly ever use 8GB of RAM fully, let alone 16GB or 32GB? No experience with Zotac mobos. Out of the mobos you listed, I only trust the ones made by Biostar.

I recommend the HD4850 since it is a lot faster than the 9800GT.
Click to expand...


More good advice. Thanks for the feedback. Some comments...

Yes, it seems I will be going the BFG route, as tiraides pointed out the trouble with the OCZ units.

As for the memory, if you notice the costs, as long as I'm not lazy and mail-in the rebate, I can get the OCZ and Corsair for around the exact same cost as the other units. Kingston seems to be the most overpriced, but they don't offer any sort of rebate, and they're still hovering around $60. But yes, if no rebates were offered, I would not pay $30 or $40 more for memory that would otherwise provide no additional benefit.

And, finally, thanks for the video-card recommendation. I think I will go with the ATI 4850. Any issues with PowerColor? I've owned PowerColor in the past (back when I was running a Geforce2 MX2 card), and it was average at best... ...wouldn't OC at all even when I added RAM sinks, etc.). However, I've read good reviews in the last few years, so I'm not biased one way or another. I'll go with whatever you guys recommend.
 
The ModXStream and GameXStream power supplies don't have that problem of being based off the FSP Epsilon PSU. Then again, you don't need much to power your system plus an HD4850.

I prefer HIS from a quality standpoint. Sapphire and PowerColor seem to be the budget manufacturers for ATI video cards, and their quality (for me) have been hit or miss.
 
Obviously you didn't check out the PSU subforum here. Otherwise you would have found out about the low quality OCZ PSUs.
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True say! But, I did read extensively the online user reviews in the forums of NewEgg, NCIX, etc. Most of the time the PSUs received 4 or 5 stars / 5 stars.
 
Soulstice said:
True say! But, I did read extensively the online user reviews in the forums of NewEgg, NCIX, etc. Most of the time the PSUs received 4 or 5 stars / 5 stars.
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As tiraides said about the motherboard: "Don't trust the NewEgg reviews, as the majority of them were written by people who have no clue of what they're talking about."

That also applies to PSU reviews on newegg.
 
Soulstice said:
True say! But, I did read extensively the online user reviews in the forums of NewEgg, NCIX, etc. Most of the time the PSUs received 4 or 5 stars / 5 stars.
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Don't rely on the reviews written in retailer sites, as the majority of them were written by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Stick to hardware-based review sites and forums, like this one. You'll get a lot more back-and-forth feedback on most parts.
 
The ModXStream and GameXStream power supplies don't have that problem of being based off the FSP Epsilon PSU. Then again, you don't need much to power your system plus an HD4850.
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Thanks, but I think I'll follow your initial advice and go with the BFG. Be aware that I may add another 4850 at some point, so the additional juice is important. Also, I didn't mention earlier, but I have a few left over SCSI 15K drives (which I'll probably run in a mirror-array for the OS boot partition). Hence, in total, I'm going to have 4 or so high-speed high-RPM disks, potentially up to two vid cards in CF, a DVD-writer, and a 125 W quad-core CPU. :)
 
Don't rely on the reviews written in retailer sites, as the majority of them were written by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Stick to hardware-based review sites and forums, like this one. You'll get a lot more back-and-forth feedback on most parts.
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I hear ya. My specialty is back-end systems... ...Exchange, SQL, MS Server, Server-Core, Hyper-V, etc. I only rely on TechNet, TechRepublic, ExpertsExchange, Citrix forums, MSExchange.org, etc, etc.

When I used to be involved moderating forums for AMDMB.COM (now PCPerspective.com), I would only rely on TomsHardware, HardOCP, and AMDMB.com... ....but, there's only so much time. I've already spent countless hours researching so I can obtain the best possible system for $500. LOL

But, yes... ...thanks for all the tips and advice. I couldn't agree more. Keep in mind though that users here often simply recite and repeat whatever they've read in Kyle's reviews. Kyle will be the first to admit that he pushes systems way beyond the maximum. Hence, although the OCZ PSUs may experience ripples at near max loading, if you were to hand me one for $50 or less, I wouldn't toss it aside, and I'd still be comfortable using it in my production machine. Now, that being said, knowing what I do now about the ripple issue in the Fortron-based models, I wouldn't load the machine with triple SLI, 10 hard drives, and the latest I7Core CPU! ;)
 
******FINAL UPDATE******


The order has been placed, and I saved even more money than expected. NewEgg.ca had a bundle deal that included the Phenom 9850 and OCZ DDR2-1066 Reaper 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) at $25 off the total.

Final costs
---------------------


NEWEGG.CA Components

AMD Phenom 9850 2.5 GHz Quad-core 125 W --- $181
OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2-1066 Dual-channel 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) --- $82 - $30 mail-in rebate = $52
JetWay JHA04-LF AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard --- $119
POWERCOLOR AX4850 512MD3-DH Radeon HD 4850 512MB --- $171 - $20 mail-in rebate = $151
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: $553 - $25 instant discount (for bundle) = $528
TOTAL (After rebates): $528 - $30 - $20 = $478




CanadaComputers.com Components

OCZ ProXStream 1000W Power Supply --- $69 ($30 IR + $80 mail-in)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: $69


GRAND TOTAL: $547 CAD after rebates


I'm pretty amped, and I can't wait until everything arrives. I never though I'd be able to get all these top-of-line components for so cheap. I honestly believed, when I originally decided to do this, that I was going to end up with a low-end Phenom, cheap-ass mobo, average memory, and a very good, but low-wattage PSU. Instead, I've ended up with the second best AMD-quad available, the best AMD chipset on a mobo that supports 4-way SLI / CrossFire, some of the best RAM on the market available for OCing, and one of the best (albeit loud) PSUs on the market (and, it's 1000W, and achieved a rating of [H] Platnum based on HardOCP's testing methodology).

Thanks to everyone that assisted.
 
No SLI on AMD chipsets, NVIDIA chipsets only.
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lol... true enough.

It should be noted.... ...although this may be true now, in theory, SLI can work on any chipset. SLI is not BIOS nor chipset dependent in nature, rather, it relies on a proprietary SLI-link device and a proper-spacing between the PCIx16 slots. The problem is that nVIDIA and AMD are competitors, so AMD will never pay to license the nVIDIA SLI connector and obtain certification. Had AMD not bought-out ATI, it may have been a different story, and we'd probably be seeing AMD chipsets sporting SLI and CrossFireX certification. Just a thought.
 
Soulstice said:
Had AMD not bought-out ATI, it may have been a different story, and we'd probably be seeing AMD chipsets sporting SLI and CrossFireX certification. Just a thought.
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NOTE: Writing this while a bit sleep so please excuse any piss poor grammar:

Probably not. Nvidia makes chipsets for AMD CPUs as well. If both AMD and Nvidia chipsets for AMD CPUs both have SLI support, it would have cannibalized Nvidia's chipset/motherboard division sales. All we have to do is take a look at Intel's socket 775: Pretty much the only reason to get a Nvidia motherboard for Intel socket 775 CPUs was due to SLI support. otherwise, no one would've bought Nvidia's buggy and unstable chipsets/motherboards for Intel socket 775 CPUs.

Only reason why Intel's X58 chipsets can run both SLI and CF is that Intel currently holds all the cards in performance and Core i7 support as well as chipset stability. Since Core i7 and socket 1366 is Intel's tech, there really wasn't a reason for Intel to allow Nvidia a look at or the tech to build a chipset to support Core i7 and socket 1366. Rather than be locked out of this potential cash stream and to avoid being left behind in chipsets, Nvidia acquiesced and allowed for SLI on the X58 chipsets.

Unfortunately that isn't the case for AMD right now. AMD does not hold the crown in high-end performance and currently does not have any sort of leverage to force Nvidia to free up their SLI tech. Remember that Crossfire is a free standard/tech to use by anyone. So Nvidia could totally have Crossfire support on their Nvidia chipsets but Nvidia refuses to do so.
 
Yes, that looks like a good system for the price that you paid. Nice.

:D
signature_pix.5.jpg
 
Unfortunately that isn't the case for AMD right now. AMD does not hold the crown in high-end performance and currently does not have any sort of leverage to force Nvidia to free up their SLI tech. Remember that Crossfire is a free standard/tech to use by anyone. So Nvidia could totally have Crossfire support on their Nvidia chipsets but Nvidia refuses to do so.
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You may be right. As I said, it was just a thought. Nobody can know for certain. My point had more to do with the fact that SLI is not a chipset-dependent techology. It simply requires properly spaced PCIx16 slots and the proprietary nVIDIA interface device. And, I'm quite sure that nVIDIA is willing to license it to anybody... ...for the right price of course. For example, if nVIDIA was worried about motherboard market-share on the AMD-side, they would simply charge $50 to $75 a pop to license the technology on AMD-chipsets. This would push the price of AMD-chipsets that support SLI through the roof, and make purchasing an nVIDIA board more a attractive. On the other hand, for those wanting to stick with AMD-based chipsets, nVIDIA would still be making enough off the licensing fee to make it worthwhile. I picked $50 arbitrarily... ...it could be any value, based on market-statistics, that would provide a happy median for nVIDIA.
 
Yes, that looks like a good system for the price that you paid. Nice.
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Thanks! I already have the PSU installed in my Antec case. My order has shipped, so I should have everything in a few days. :)
 
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