Building from Scratch - Appreciate some help

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darklink28

n00b
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9
Hi, new to the forums, first post. I've been meaning to build my first computer for some time now, and I plan on starting soon. Here's my current build, mostly after reading on these forums, Anandtech and Ars Technica.

The budget is around $1600 - $2000 starting completely from scratch, and I plan on mostly gaming on it. Any overclocking will be minimal at most. I'd appreciate any comments / tips / suggestions on any of the parts but here's what I need help on most :

Case - I'm looking at the Antec Solo and the Antec 300 but doesn't necessarily have to be either one. What I'm looking for is a case that is fairly compact while still allowing all the components below inside without any modding, as well as decent heat management and sound control.

PSU - With the current components, I'm thinking a 500w PSU should be more than enough. Or should I get 600-700?

Sound Card - Is one worth getting? I'll probably be using a 2.1 speaker setup.

All prices excepting the monitor (they don't seem to be selling that model) are from Newegg.

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L - $108

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128345&Tpk=Gigabyte+GA-EP45-DS3L

Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 - $195

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

Memory - OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) - $115

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267

GPU - SAPPHIRE 100243L Radeon HD 4870 512MB - $285

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102748

Hard Drive - SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD753LJ 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive OEM - $110x2 = $220

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152100&Tpk=SAMSUNG+Spinpoint+F1+HD753LJ

Optical Drive - Samsung SH-S203N - $28x2 = $56

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154&Tpk=Samsung+SH-S203N

Monitor - LG L227WTG 22" LCD (would like to keep it at 1680x1050) $ 340 - Tiger Direct

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...&cm_mmc_o=TBBTkwCjCVyBpAgf mwzygtCjCVRqCjCVRq

Mouse - Logitech MX518 Had on of these before and really liked it. - $40

Keyboard - Logitech G15 - $74

Sound Card - ??

Case - ??

PSU - ??

Other peripherals - extra fans for extra cooling, thermal paste, mounting cable (hard drives are OEM), DVI cable (monitor doesn't come with one apparently).

Would appreciate some recommendations for the fans and thermal paste.

Current Cost so far (excluding Case/ PSU / Sound Card and Other Peripherals) is $1543 (excluding shipping which is free on several items and tax)

Is this everything I need to build a functioning computer? Want to make sure I'm not missing anything.. Thanks for the help!
 
With your budget, I would step up the monitor to a 24" and not bother with a 22". Game on 1920 x 1200 res man and take advantage of that HD4870 card. Also, although those OCZ RAM modules are good, I rather get the 4gig G. Skill DDR2 800 RAM for $80 and not bother with any rebates. I also would go with the 640 gig WD HDD as oppose to the Samsung 750 gig. Yah, the Samsung is a bigger drive but, the 640 gig performance is impressive and faster than the Samsung 750gig. Sound card, don't bother and just use the integrated audio on the mobo. Onboard audio is pretty good offering 7.1 surround already. Case...meh, get Coolermaster RC590, 690, Antec 900, whatevers pick one. PSU - Corsair TX650 or Corsair TX750. Buy a good power supply that will last and leave headroom to upgrade down the road. Oh yah, the Sapphire HD4870 is good but, with the Visiontek priced at the same upfront with a $20 MIR you might as well get that one instead.
 
You don't need a quad core for 'mostly gaming', your throwing money away. Nothing for 5 years will fully support quad core because they still don't fully support dual core and they have been around for 3-4 years now.

I know most people here will disagree with me, but it's the truth. Quad cores are 'cool', and I agree. However, when push comes to shove, for gaming they're pointless when you can get a faster dual core, for cheaper. This is a good example of when a quad core is jusitifed. Put that money elsewhere.

Also, the WD6400AAKS is a much better hard drive than the spinpoint F1. Save money there and on the CPU and get a faster graphics card like a GTX280 or 4870x2

Guarantee your system will be better with these changes.
 
bigdogchris has a point. An E8400 Dual Core cpu for $170 on NewEgg is a good price and save $25 here from getting a Quad Core Q6600 cpu. Apply the $25 to the shipping cost. hehe. Granted a Q6600 Quad core cpu will be more future proof down the road, a dual core cpu will still be kickin for quite some time though. Also, by the time most applications utilize multi core cpus, you probably would have upgraded to the Intel Nahelm cpu already. You might not be content to stay with your aging Q6600 cpu.
 
The Three Hundred and Solo are both solid cases. The 300 is designed more for cooling whereas the Solo is designed to dampen sound from the system. Right now, the 300 is on sale for $60 with free shipping, while the Solo costs around $75 (plus shipping) at Provantage.

If you want extra/better fans, pick up some Yate Loon fans -- either the low speed or the medium speed models.

A power supply from the Antec Earthwatts series is an excellent complement to one of the Antec cases. (In fact, they're currently used in the Antec case/PSU bundles.) Right now the Earthwatts EA650 is about $70 shipped, which is cheaper than most quality power supplies of at least 500 watts. While the Corsair brand PSUs are better quality, the Earthwatts is enough for your needs.

Speaking of cheaper, there are a few ways to cut costs without sacrificing quality. Instead of the OCZ Reapers, go with the cheaper G.Skill DDR2 800 kit -- and it will perform just as well (as there's no noticeable difference performance-wise between CL4 and CL5 memory). Additionally, if you don't need dual Gigabit Ethernet ports or the ability to handle up to 16GB of RAM (since 4GB is all that most people really need -- well, actually, 2GB is still the "sweet spot" for most people's needs), go with the GA-EP43-DS3L, which has most of the same features as the P45-based board.

Between the motherboard and the case, you should have all the cables and screws needed to assemble the computer. You don't need any extra stuff. However, for the DVI cable, you may want to check out MonoPrice.com.

As a rebuttal, you could afford either processor. If this is designed to primarily be a gaming machine, the faster speeds of the E8400 would be the better choice. However, if you are a heavy multitasker, the Q6600 may be more for you. (When I mean "multitasking," I mean using multiple system-intensive programs, such as running Photoshop heavily, using Maya, or relying on some other video or 3D graphics editing software.) Regardless, I suggest getting an aftermarket CPU cooler, like the Xigmatek HDT-S1283 (and its optional-yet-highly-recommended retention bracket), that would cool better and run quieter than the stock HSF. (The thermal compound that comes with the Xigmatek HSF is enough for your build, and the retail HSF comes with some already applied.)

May I ask why you are getting two DVD burners? Unless you do a TON of disc-to-disc copying, all you really need is one. (But you made a good choice on the selection.)

One HD4870 is enough for most games on either a 22" or a 24" monitor. (You definitely don't need the GTX 280 or the 4870X2 for a 22" monitor.) I agree with HardwareGuru that you should get the VisionTek model instead of the Sapphire model; however, I'm recommending VisionTek because it's the only ATI-based brand that offers a limited lifetime warranty.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

Future proofing is definitely not top priority, I am graduating from college next year and do not think I'll be able to take it with me. So I'll be selling it or it's components by May '09 most likely.

Monitor - I've heard great things about this particular monitor, and I believe it only comes in 1650x1050. Also I'd get those extra framerates by going with that resolution. If I went with 1920, I'd probably have to get a 4870x2.

Memory - Definitely going with the G Skill, should save me some unnecessary expenditure. $79.

Hard Drive - I actually tried to find the WD 640, but for some reason couldn't find it on Newegg. I'll go with a couple of these just because I've heard so many good things about it, whereas I haven't heard much about the Samsung. $85 apiece.

Sound Card - I'll go with onboard audio.

GPU - I don't know much about Sapphire and Visiontek, but this lifetime warranty sounds great. I'll go with them for sure. $285.

CPU - It was a tough choice between dual and quad, and I think I'll be gaming a lot more than any multi-tasking. I'm thinking of the E8500. It's going for $190.

DVD burners - I won't be doing a ton of disc to disc copying, but I figured for 25 bucks it can't hurt. I probably should only get one, got a bit carried away heh.

Aftercooler cooler - The Xigmatek HDT-S1283 sounds great, just what I was looking for. Except it seems a bit large, do you know if would fit in a Solo or 300? The retention bracket is just 7 dollars so I'll definitely get it.

Motherboard - You're GA-EP43-DS3L suggestion looks good, I think I will go with it. I don't intend on getting more than 4gb ram any time soon. It's not much of a savings, but I noticed my original choice there are a lot of user reviews complaining about out of date BIOS that needs flashing. This one seems to have better reviews.

Thanks for the great suggestions guys, this is shaping up to be quite a beast for the money I'm spending. I'm not going to start ordering / building it for at least 3 more weeks (until I move into my new place) so keep the suggestions / ideas coming.
 
Forget the E8500 and go with the E8400. Since you're doing minimal overclocking, the E8400 is the better choice at $170.

The Xigmatek will fit in a 300, most likely the Solo as well.
 
Cool, E8400 it is. Also, I think I will go with the 300, as I hear the 4870 runs a bit hot.
 
You sure you won't consider a 24"?. A BenQ G2400WD lcd sells for $378.99 with free shipping on Buy.com which is only $40 more than that LG 22" from Tigerdirect. For $40 more you get a 2" larger display, higher resolution, an HDMI port and 1:1 pixel mapping if you choose to hookup a PS3 or Xbox 360. The HD 4870 video card does very well at high res with AA and AF enabled. Though, gaming at 1680 x 1050 you will gain a few more FPS over 1920 x 1200 res, it won't be anything major that you will notice. It will vary between 5-10fps generally in games. Sometimes, even less than 5fps. I went through alot of monitors from several 20" to 21", 22", 24" and a 28" and gaming to me is alot more fun when you have a big monitor as you feel immersed in the gaming. Heck, I only have a 8800GT gaming on a 24" and yet I still do well with that card.
 
I do have a 360, so that would be an added bonus... The biggest screen I've ever had is 17', so either of the two 22' or 24' would still be a huge increase for me. Nothings set in stone and theres a couple of weeks before I buy anything so I'll definitely consider it atleast. Mostly I'm just worried about suffering lowered fps since I've been dealing with that on the laptops I've owned in the past.
 
$370 from NewEgg for the BenQ 24" G2400WD. Free 3 Business Day Shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014173

The way I look at it, If you gonna stick with the 22" LG, I would be content to just get an HD4850 video card as that is already good for 1680 x 1050 gaming. Save $100+ dollars than getting an HD4870. If you do get an HD4870 card, go for a 24" lcd already. As far as losing fps in gaming, you should not be concerned. You mentioned gaming on a laptop, the video graphics of most laptops out there are no where near the performance of a graphics card in a desktop pc. Especially considering the fact you are putting in a gaming graphics card.
 
bigdogchris said:
You don't need a quad core for 'mostly gaming', your throwing money away. Nothing for 5 years will fully support quad core because they still don't fully support dual core and they have been around for 3-4 years now.

I know most people here will disagree with me, but it's the truth. ...
Click to expand...

I think most people, including me, will agree with you: that for gaming, a higher clocked dual core would be better right now over a slower quadcore. However, I disagree that spending $25 over the E8400 is "throwing your money away." Maybe back when the Q6600 was $320, and you could pick up an E6420 for $200, then yes, a quadcore was a waste of money for a gaming machine. The extra $120 could have gone towards a vidcard. Lets be realistic here... its a $1600 - $2000 budget... how much of that is $30? 1.8% at most? :rolleyes: Even if he gets an E7200 instead, thats $60 cheaper... a whopping 3.8% savings. :eek: C'mon... you make it sound as if he's buying a Core 2 Extreme chip. :p
 
darklink28 said:
Future proofing is definitely not top priority, I am graduating from college next year and do not think I'll be able to take it with me. So I'll be selling it or it's components by May '09 most likely.
Click to expand...

Why can't you take it with you? Afraid it will be too heavy? Prefer to get a Nehalem build instead?

If size is a problem for you, you could always build a small form factor (SFF) rig with most of the same features as this one. And if you take care of this rig -- perform periodic maintenance and incremental upgrades (of certain parts, like the video card) -- you could have this system last several years.
 
I actually looked at SFF initially but it seemed that I wouldn't be able to find a SFF case that could fit all the components in (including that xigmatek cooler). Do you have any suggestions for that? I'd definitely trying to make it as small as possible.

I go to school in Pennsylvania and right now its looking like I'll be moving to Dallas after graduation so its pretty far away. I don't have a car so I can't just drive down with it either.

edit: I think it was the 4870 that was the main problem in fitting it into a SFF without modding. Also wouldn't a bigger case make for a easier build? This is my first time doing this.
 
Yeah, yeah, I'm using a SFF rig.... :p

It's possible to build a decent microATX-based setup that can compete with the more conventional ATX machines. Some of the parts of my build have been discontinued, but you could build a similarly powered machine:

$35 - Cooler Master Elite 340
$7 - Two Yate Loon D12SL-12 120mm fans (@ $3.60 each) -- for Elite 340
$100 - Silverstone SST-ST60F ($20 mail-in rebate)
$97 - Asus P5K-VM
$170 - Intel E8400
$85 - G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 1000
$46 - Thermalright Ultima 90
$3 - Panaflo M1A-Z 92mm fan -- for Ultima 90
$26 - Samsung SH-S223F
$190 - Two Western Digital WD6400AAKS HDDs (@ $85 each)
$285 - VisionTek HD4870 ($20 mail-in rebate)
=====
$1044 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

The Thermalright Ultra 90 (with 92mm Panaflo M1A-Z fan) works almost as well as the Xigmatek HDT-S1283, but it will fit inside the Elite 340 case. The Elite 340 a microATX mini-tower case that is slightly larger than my Silverstone SG03 case. The ST60F is about as powerful as the Corsair HX620, but it's currently priced the same as the HX520. The HD4870, as I mentioned earlier, could handle games on both a 22" and a 24" monitor. I've included the WD6400AAKS hard drives and the E8400 based on earlier recommendations, but you can change them to your original choices if you want to. The Samsung SH-S203B/D/N are out of stock at most of the mainstream locations, so I went with the newer SH-S223F.

I forgot to ask this earlier, but do you already have an unused OS license? If not, pick up an OEM copy of 64-bit Vista Home Premium. I'm recommending Vista because it has better hardware support than XP Pro x64. (Additionally, with a 32-bit version of Windows, the amount of "usable" RAM that you'll have would be subtracted by all of the other component memory your system uses. In short, you would only have around 3.2GB to 3.5GB of "usable" RAM.)
 
This SFF rig looks great. I think this is the route I'll be going, because I can probably take this with me unlike a mid-tower.

For OS, I don't have a unused OS license, but I was planning on picking up a OEM copy of Vista 64. RAM is so cheap that I want to be able to go to 8gb RAM if the need arises.

Thanks for the SH-S223F as I've been trying to locate one but couldn't. Needed an alternative.

I was trying to figure out why it was so cheap, then I realized the monitor price wasn't included :).

With the monitor and Vista 64, the total comes to about $1500 (not including taxes, rebate, shipping)

Thanks for the help with the SFF build, Tiraides.
 
Can I get an alternative for the motherboard?

The ASUS P5K-VM seems to have quite a few bad reviews due to "intrusion problems" on Newegg. Don't mind spending a bit more than the ASUS costs since it is the motherboard and all.
 
I personally don't see the point of a 24", its a minor upgrade in size yet a huge upgrade in resolution which will be nice for the short term(assuming you can max most games today at 1920x1200, most)but there are still a few games you're going to have to sacrifice non resolution settings in to support that big monitor and sure its not a big deal now but 6 months down the road you may be stuck running medium settings on the screen while someone with a 22" can still max all their graphical settings because they don't need to push as much resolution.
 
Yeah most likely I'm sticking with the 22", for the reasons you mentioned. Plus that screen in particular gets rave reviews and it doesn't come any bigger.

Any thoughts on how going with the SFF case might restrict my upgrade options down the road if graphic cards continue increasing in size?
 
The closest I could find as a replacement is the Foxconn G33M board. It won't give you as much overclocking headroom as would the Asus board -- but with a microATX build, you shouldn't really try to overclock the processor too much. There are new G43/G45 boards out (based on the P43/P45 chipset), but I haven't heard much about them. All of the Gigabyte microATX boards are limited in some way; the S2L and S2H model motherboards have PCI-E x16 slots that actually run at x4 speeds; and my board -- the GA-G33M-DS2R, which has been discontinued for a while -- can only use a 1:1 FSB/RAM ratio with DDR2 1066 RAM, both at stock speeds and while overclocking.

The length of both the GTX 280 and the HD4870X2 is 10.5 inches. (I heard, but currently can't confirm, that the HD4870 is about 9.5 inches. Most mid-range cards, like the 9800GTX and the HD4850, are between 9 and 10 inches long.) The longest I've ever heard of a card getting is around 12 inches.

If you take a look at the inside of the Elite 340 case, you'll notice that there is virtually nothing blocking the path of the video card, save for the front fan. The width of the case is approximately 15.15 inches. The thickness of the average case fan is about an inch. You probably have about 12-14 inches of room inside the case to play with.

As long as the video card you're considering is less than 12 inches long, you should have no trouble placing it into the Elite 340 case. Though, if you're planning to stick with the 22 inch monitor and you don't consider yourself to be a serious gamer, you could downgrade your video card selection to the HD4850.
 
I have a laptop for my mobile and work stuff, the SFF is supposed to be for gaming only. Definitely consider myself a serious gamer, so I'm going to stick with HD4870.

With that amount of room to play with I can probably upgrade a couple of generations later and be fine.

O/C wise, I probably won't do too much, only to get a feel of how it's done, and I hear with SFF O/Cing is not a great idea. So the G33M should fit my needs. Thanks again.
 
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