Building a workstation PC

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Spodi

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I was looking for input on a computer I am helping my dad build. Before anything, I want to stress that this is a workstation PC. No games. The big and most performance-demanding application he uses is AutoCAD (he's a structural engineer), so that is the primary focus for performance. Being such an expensive computer, it is also important that it'll last for years to come and, because all his work is done on this thing, it is important that it is very sturdy and reliable.

MoBo: GA-EP35-DS3R (NewEgg)... (was: GA-EP35-DS3R (NewEgg))
CPU: Core 2 Duo E8400 (NewEgg)
GPU: Quadro FX 1700 (NewEgg)
RAM: G.SKILL 2x2GB DDR2 800 (NewEgg)... (was: 2x2GB OCZ Reaper DDR2 800 @ 4-4-4-15 (NewEgg))
PSU: CMPSU-520HX (NewEgg)... (was: 620HX)

The one part I didn't really put much attention into is the PSU just because I wasn't so sure what to look for. I assume 620 watts will be plenty, and after trying to fit my 750w PSU into my Antec 900, modular cabling sounds quite appealing. As for the case, not really sure what to look for as far as compatibility besides that it is big enough to fit it all in there. Suggestions?

Any input, especially incompatibility issues and concepts, would be greatly appreciated. And remember, not for games! :)
 
What's you budget on this? I would go Quad core cpu if you're looking at the pc lasting several years.
 
Hey, my uncle is in the same profession. Though, he's a bit cheap, and uses high end gaming cards instead of Professional OpenGL cards (he's got an 8800GT and an HD3850, IIRC).

Anyhow, he'd definitely be better off with a quadcore. What's his budget?

I'd suggest changing that board to the newer version, GA-EP45-DS3R, or if he doesnt need RAID, then the GA-EP43-DS3L would be even cheaper and still meet his needs.

The Corsair 520W modular unit would be more than enough for that system, btw, and its cheaper at buy.com.

The Quadro FX 1700 uses the G84 GPU... which would be the same as the 8600GT. I think he'll get more performance from an 8800GT 512MB or HD4850 as opposed to the QFX1700, despite those being high end gaming cards.
 
Budget is preferably no higher than $1500. Unfortunately AutoCAD does not utilize multiple cores/cpus, so a quad-core would mostly go to waste. Only part AutoCAD can even really use multiple cores for is the rendering, but that would also imply software rendering, which would ideally not be happening in the first place (especially with an AutoCAD-certified GPU).

@enginurd: Thanks for the new board suggestion. He won't be using RAID, so the GA-EP43-DS3L should be great. I was trying to find one without RAID, but couldn't. So thanks a bunch. :)

The big difference between the FX 1700 and 8800 GT is that it is AutoCAD-certified. AutoCAD has their own special drivers for specific cards for each AutoCAD version to ensure that you can get the most from AutoCAD, along with that it can use all the graphic hardware acceleration available. There is also a noticeable difference between the rendering quality and performance of a gaming card and workspace card in untextured primitives and wire-frame. Although they are the same at heart, the difference is pretty substantial. I ran a CAD-influenced benchmark on my machine with an 8800 vs the same benchmark from a FX 1700. Even difference in other hardware components aside, my card performed a score of 4, while the FX 1700 scored a 40 at higher resolution. So even though it is quite a bit, it is definitely worth it when it is specially tailored towards the only graphically-demanding thing he uses.

Also, thanks for the input on the PSU. I'll knock it down to the 520W. :)

Thanks again to you both. Been a huge help so far! :D
 
You could switch out the RAM to the G.Skill DDR2 800 kit and get the MIR savings "immediately" (since the G.Skill kit costs the same as the OCZ Reapers AR... and, unlike the Reapers, it comes with free shipping). Since the G.Skill kit runs at the same speeds as the Reapers, it will perform just as well (and you'll see no noticeable difference performance-wise between CL4 and CL5 memory).

What does your (hard drive) storage look like?
 
I'll ask my uncle what he does to get the most out of his gaming cards for AutoCAD. Which benchmark were you running, and I'll ask him to run it, too... link?

I know there are softmods for Radeon cards to turn them into FireGL cards, if you're adventurous -- and I think my uncle does this, too, on one of his systems. NVIDIA stopped the softmodding a few generations ago, though. :(
 
@tiraides: Sounds good to me. The G.Skill was actually my original thought, but threw in the Reapers to see what people would say about that. Thanks!

The HDD we haven't decided yet. It is most likely going to be a higher performance drive. The VelociRaptor looked pretty convincing. The size on those things are quite insane, too. It is not going to be in a RAID or anything fancy, just a primary disk with a slave drive(s) for storage/backups.

@engiurd: The benchmark is SPECapc for Pro/ENGINEER. But beware, its a huge downoad (>1 GB I believe). I would definitely consider using a tweaked gaming card if he played games, but he never does, and I don't think I'll ever see him play a high-end game. So a big part of the appeal is coming not only from the performance and visual benefits, but the specialization and ensured compatibility. And even a gaming card worked fine for now, it'd be nice to ensure support of future AutoCAD versions.

Thanks for asking your uncle for me. I'll like to hear what he has to say. :)
 
Hello, I'm in the same boat in that I use AutoCAD with a workstation daily. I only upgraded to it recently from a P4 machine, spec is:

Intel Xeon E5440 2.83GHz
4GB FB 667MHz
Intel 5400 Chipset (It's a Dell :p)
nVidia Quadro FX570 256MB
150GB 15k RPM SAS Hard Drive

Can you ask him a few questions for me please?

How many drawings does he have open at one time?
How often does he use render?
How many displays and resolutions does he use?
What version of AutoCAD does he use?
What is the other software he uses?​

This will help me get a better idea of what he will need. I think the first point I should make is that the FX1700 is a bit OTT, even for using something like Inventor with hundreds and hundreds of parts, you run into memory limits with 4GB way before you can overload the GPU. I've severely stress-tested my system in real-world applications and this thing is as smooth as silk even with a lowly FX570. I would think an FX1700 would be neccessary for 3ds Max or some other highly demanding application. I ask how many displays he will use as you could get dual FX570s for less than the price of a FX1700 (no SLI though :p). You definitely want a Quadro if he's only doing work on this machine, I use my home machine with an 8800GTS and it's not nearly as nice to work with. I also ask what version of AutoCAD he uses as anything lower than 2009 on Vista is a joke, even with the service packs to add Vista support, I would seriously recommend XP x64. Your CPU choice is excellent, a nice quick 3GHz job which will work a treat, the only thing to think about is that AutoCAD does use as many cores as you have got for rendering (it's done on the CPU) so my quad core 2.83GHz tears through it like you wouldn't believe. Even a Q6600 would be better if rendering is a big part of his work, and for a bargain price now. Another thing to consider is going for 8GB memory, as it's so damn cheap nowadays it would be a worthwhile addition. For hard drive I think a Velociraptor is a good choice for the price.

The only other thing I could recommend is going the Xeon and FB memory route, I'm sure you could put together a tidy system for $1500 with an E5420 or so. I cannot tell you how much nicer working on a system with a Xeon, FB memory and a Quadro card on XP x64 is, this thing is rock solid, it's exactly what I wanted from my work machine. :cool:

(As you can see I'm very happy with it :))
 
Hey Dan,

I was checking out the Xeons, and they seem to be used quite a bit with workstation computers, though $700 seems a bit over-the-top for the CPU, but I guess the FX1700 is the same. ;) Though being a programmer for many years, I know what its like to be willing to pay a lot more for things to be nice and smooth.

As for his drawings, he is a structural engineer and I am quite sure that he does not do extensive rendering, but rather just the layout and structure of buildings. I will ask him what exactly he does and get back to you on that more specifically. But I am almost positive it isn't anything very intense.

As for display, he uses around a standard resolution with two monitors, so nothing exceptional.

Looking at the score of the charts at Tom's Hardware, the FX 570 is still quite a ways up there (much more than I remember when initially checking the chart out). Seeing as this is still many times faster than my 8800 did on the benchmark, I'm sure that the FX 570 would be plenty. It actually seems like the perfect choice, so I'm glad you mentioned that. :)

He will be using 32-bit XP, and I don't think he'll want to use anything else (especially Vista), so no worries there.

After dropping the GPU to the FX 570, I think I'll be pretty happy with where it is. As fun as it would be to go for an expensive Xeon an FB-DIMMs, I think it might be best to leave it out since I doubt he'll ever do anything any time soon to need that. It'd also require changing most of the parts, and oh what a hassle! :p

But then again, adding up those parts (assuming FX 570) only comes to $680, which is quite a ways away from his budget. Damnit, you guys are too good at bargain shopping - you're making this difficult! ;) Including the case and S&H + tax, that still is only going to be about $850 at most. Though, if he grabs a big fat VelociRaptor, it'll probably be around $1100. So there is a bit more of spending room, but not enough to do substantial tweaking.

What do you think, Dan? I'm very satisfied with the way this rig looks, and even more-so with the price, but you clearly have more experience with this kind of build and software he uses. I'd definitely be happy calling this complete, assuming there is no compatibility issues (and I don't see any).
 
Sounds good, there are two things I could recommend further though.

The first is going for a quad-core CPU if you want to wring the budget out ;) A Q9450 would be an excellent choice for the price, but it really depends on the quantity and demands of the multi-tasking he will do. For example I can be editing a drawing in AutoCAD, creating a few hundred page PDF in Acrobat and using Finereader to read another few hundred page PDF along with a myriad of smaller programs such as Word. For situations like these the quad-core is a must, but if he will only do a few tasks at any one time there's no real need.

The second is going for a slightly more premium board. The GA-EP45-DS3P is what I'd be looking at for this application, although personally I'd probably get something in the Asus P5Q series. The DS3L will likely suit your needs perfectly but I always think that it's worth spending a little more on the motherboard to get the extra features, the last thing you would want is to be stuck with say a non-RAID board if he decides he wants to run some form of RAID setup in several months time. It's really just covering your ass in case.

I've just had a look at some PSUs on Newegg, why not grab one of these little beauties for $130 after rebate, for that price it's a steal.

I think after your consideration on these options you'll be good to go :)
 
IMO, the DS3P is a bit overpriced for what the OP may need. If you're looking for a board with a few features for a low price, consider the GA-EP45-DS3R.

I should have said this earlier, but swap out the 300GB VelociRaptor for the 640GB Caviar SE16 HDD. You get over twice the storage capacity for less than a third of the cost, and it runs at the same speeds as (if not faster than) the last-gen Raptor X.

If you're going to spend over $140 on a power supply, the Corsair HX620 is a better choice. But for the OP's needs, the HX520 is more than enough. (Get either Corsair PSU from Provantage, ZipZoomFly, or Buy.com)
 
Spodi said:
Budget is preferably no higher than $1500. Unfortunately AutoCAD does not utilize multiple cores/cpus, so a quad-core would mostly go to waste. Only part AutoCAD can even really use multiple cores for is the rendering, but that would also imply software rendering, which would ideally not be happening in the first place (especially with an AutoCAD-certified GPU).

@enginurd: Thanks for the new board suggestion. He won't be using RAID, so the GA-EP43-DS3L should be great. I was trying to find one without RAID, but couldn't. So thanks a bunch. :)

The big difference between the FX 1700 and 8800 GT is that it is AutoCAD-certified. AutoCAD has their own special drivers for specific cards for each AutoCAD version to ensure that you can get the most from AutoCAD, along with that it can use all the graphic hardware acceleration available. There is also a noticeable difference between the rendering quality and performance of a gaming card and workspace card in untextured primitives and wire-frame. Although they are the same at heart, the difference is pretty substantial. I ran a CAD-influenced benchmark on my machine with an 8800 vs the same benchmark from a FX 1700. Even difference in other hardware components aside, my card performed a score of 4, while the FX 1700 scored a 40 at higher resolution. So even though it is quite a bit, it is definitely worth it when it is specially tailored towards the only graphically-demanding thing he uses.

Also, thanks for the input on the PSU. I'll knock it down to the 520W. :)

Thanks again to you both. Been a huge help so far! :D
Click to expand...

have you looked into soft modding a card? a 3850 or 3870 1gb can be pretty easily be modded into a fire GL card. save a lot of money and you would get a much better card. I don't personally know about the soft modding for the geforce cards but I have been told that it doesn't work as well.
 
Valset said:
have you looked into soft modding a card? a 3850 or 3870 1gb can be pretty easily be modded into a fire GL card. save a lot of money and you would get a much better card. I don't personally know about the soft modding for the geforce cards but I have been told that it doesn't work as well.
Click to expand...

IIRC, people haven't been able to find a way to soft-mod the HD 3- and 4-series cards. But, apparently, NVIDIA cards still can be soft-modded.
 
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