Building a server

[maxse]

So one of the drives on my current server crashed (WHS V1) and I just want to upgrade everything to WHS 2011+FlexRAID and pretty much build a real server with my existing parts. When I originally built it many years ago sliding drive cages were too expensive for my budget (wish I still went with them because now it's a pain).

I don't have much knowledge about which cages will fit into my case and which ones are hot swappable etc...

Current components:

1. CASE: Cooler Master CM Stacker
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119042
2. MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (1 PCI-E X16, and 1 PCI-E X1)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128342
3. PROC: AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor
4. PSU: Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-550 550W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Power Supply
5. RAM: Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Requirements:
I am not familiar with drive cages and port expanders etc and how it all works so need some help please.

This will be going into my parents place so it needs to be super-simple to replace drives.

1. Prefer to be hot-swappable. It would be great if I could have an actual light on the drive indicate which specific drive has failed/failing to make it super easy to replace.

Cold swappable cages are okay too depending on the price. I am on a budget... But I definitely need the drives to be able to slide in and out. I currently have thos CM Cages where you screw each drive individually (4-in-3), I DO NOT want that pain anymore.

2. I would like to fit as many drives as possible to take up all the bays in the case so that it looks nice and is future proof.

3. The mobo has 6 SATA connections at the moment, so I guess I will need some kind of card to create the extra ports?

I would really appreciate your help guys, I want this to look nice and sleep with cages and simple to use. Thank you!

 

[Xiaz]

I am not an expert, but if you wish too have an light too flash too see what drives is bad. I would think you should considder an Narco case like the 4224 I know it does not look pretty but it has space too future use. And you can always expend it too. With some port multiplyer etc. But this case will not be pretty in the living room etc. But if you have the possiblety too place it in the basement or something else i would def go with that case.

 

[maxse]

No I need it to be quiet like the current server is.
I don't necessarily need a light to flash on the appropriate drive, I guess I can take them out and check the serial number for the drive that is bad.
I just mentioned it in case there was some hot-swappable case that for a few dollars more offers this function, I wouldn't mind spending a little more on it. But if not, that's okay too.

The case actually has 11 5.25" bays. So I'm not sure how to make this work. Need some help guys

 

[Xiaz]

It has en flash on it, but they are also precy imo, they coast over 100£. Ofc its your choise what case you want too use, but i think the narco case can be low noise too, if you just replace the fans with some lownoise ones. No matter what you do when you have so many drives it will be noisy.

http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?sku=63

 

[maxse]

Thanks, but I'm not sure if you read my thread. I specifically stated that I want to save money as I am not a budget, and specifically stated the case and components that I have and would like to use.

Yeah, those are way too expensive. I need to spend as little as possible on this.

I really need some help putting this together guys, can I make it work with my existing components? PSU enough?

What about the fact that it has 11 bays. What about an expansion card that will be compatible? How many drives will I be able to install into this thing? etc...

 

[Dangman]

I specifically stated that I want to save money as I am not a budget,.

This doesn't make sense. Did you mean you are on a budget? Or not on a budget?

If you are on a budget, what's the max amount of money you're willing to spend?

I'm surprised the PSU is still alive. The Truepower I and II series as well as the Smartpower series were well known for their above average death rates due to a poor choice in caps and cooling design. In more specific terms, Antec/CWT specified/used caps (Fuhjyyu caps) that did not respond well to heat. Unfortunately, Antec made the decision to have the PSU fan only ramp at really high temps in an effort to keep the PSU quiet. However, just medium to high temps were enough to screw up the caps so really high temps were murderous. Over time, this degraded the quality and performance of those PSU series. Hell, just mentioning you had a Trupower II PSU to an Antec customer service rep was enough to get it replaced automatically for free from Antec with an Earthwatts when those Trues were still in warranty.

So I recommend the replacing that PSU considering its quality and age.

 

[maxse]

Oops, sorry guys I meant that I AM on a budget.

Willing to spend $300.

Basically I need: Drive cages, and expansion card.
I will try to stick with this PSU, it has been working great!
----
So which expansion card do you guys recommend? Can I make it work with the current mobo? Also not sure which one to get, not familiar with all the SAS terminology.

Also, the case has 11 5.25" bays, which now looks like an odd number to have. How can I utilize them most effectively?

 

[Dangman]

I have to disagree: I highly highly recommend replacing that PSU. It may work fine now but when it dies, it has a fairly high chance of taking out the rest of the PC considering its quality and age.

Note that the case actually has 12 5.25" bays since you can remove that top module easily.

 

[maxse]

Okay sounds good. Let's replace the PSU.
The top module contains the power buttons and such. Where would I move that to?

So what set up would you recommend? Along with a controller card? And can I make one work with my current mobo?
And what about the 6 sata ports on board? Would I be able to connect them to the back of the cages? I see a lot of mention of SAS connections.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

The top module contains the power buttons and such. Where would I move that to?

If you want to use that last 5-in-3 converter, take out that module. Try wiring a power button elsewhere. You could drill a hole in the case and mount a switch, or better yet just drill into a pci slot cover and mount it there. Its not like you are going to want to reboot a server all the time.

Since its a server, you will probably never have a need to attach a DVD drive outside of windows install (you can install from USB anyways). I would save all 12 bays for HDD's and attach the DVD only when you need it.

 

[maxse]

I really don't want to drill or rewire stuff.
I agree I don't need an optical drive. I have an external USB DVDROM that I can use to install Windows.

I don't even know if I can fit that many drives with a controller. Is there a controller that I could get that will work well with my motherboard that will allow me to have that many drives? It only has 1 PCI-E X16 slot

No one has really recommended any cages or anything yet which is what I need help with. What's the difference between 5in3 or 4in3 other than extra drive? Price difference?

Can you guys tell me what an ideal set up would be here?

 

[Dangman]

Guys so can you recommend a set up for me please? I would really like to work on it by next weekend but don't know the parts to order.

Aren't we impatient? We're still gathering more info from you dude. Plus I am holding off on recommending anything until you get a new PSU or at least commit to getting a new one.

Right now this PSU is awesome deal for a replacement PSU:
$55 - Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W PSU

Yes you'll be able to connect your motherboard's SATA ports to many 5in3 modules out there. As for drive cages, AFAIK, there aren't any 3rd party add-in cold-swap modules where you can slide drives in and out. So if you really want ease of removing drives, you're looking at hot-swap bays.

Also, what country are you located in?

 

[maxse]

haha okay sounds good buddy, thanks.

Okay I will purchase the CPU. Quick question, is it efficient? I would like to use as less electricity as possible and have it be very efficient. So the PSU will be purchased the one you recommend.

-I am in the U.S.
- Hot-swappable bays it is. I mentioned cold-swap because I figured it would be cheaper to not have a hot-swap option.
-What about a controller card? Which one could I get that would allow me to connect the most drives?
-what are you thinking in terms of the layout to have the most drives?
ie: If with an expansion card, the most drives I could have is 12, then no reason to get 3+ 5in3 cages...

*EDIT* PSU has just been ordered! Have a $20 MIR currently, thanks bud!

 

[Dangman]

Okay I will purchase the CPU. Quick question, is it efficient? I would like to use as less electricity as possible and have it be very efficient. So the PSU will be purchased the one you recommend.

It's efficient enough. For the most part, you really don't have to worry that much about efficiency:
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/

This is a relatively cheap hot-swap bay:
$80 - Norco SS-550 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA Backplane

Now in regards to the controller, the IBM M1015 is one of the more popular cards here on the forums. It can be found on eBay for around $100 to $150. Add a pair of SFF-8087 to SATA cables for another $30 to $40 and you'll have 8 drive capability right there. Now whether or not it'll work with your mobo is pretty much a gamble to be honest as that card sometimes doesn't work with certain mobos. There have been cases where it'll work with a mobo of one chipset but not work on a different mobo that uses the same chipset. But for the most part, it does have decent enough motherboard support. Also read this 4 part IBM M1015 guide thoroughly as most of the issues that I've seen people have the IBM M1015 was due to them not reading and following the guide carefully. :
http://www.servethehome.com/ibm-m1015-part-1-started-lsi-92208i/
http://www.servethehome.com/ibm-serveraid-m1015-part-2-performance-lsi-92208i/
http://www.servethehome.com/ibm-serveraid-m1015-part-3-smart-passthrough-lsi-92208i/
http://www.servethehome.com/ibm-serveraid-m1015-part-4/

So with the above controller and your motherboard's SATA ports, you're getting a total of 14 SATA ports. If you don't want to use the Coolermaster included HDD cage, then that basically means you'll have to buy 3 of those Norco 5in3 bays.

So all in all, you're looking at around $370 to $450 give or take for the card, 3 hot-swap bays, and two SFF-8087 to SATA Forward Breakout cables. Plus the cost of additional SATA cables as well. If you still want to use that 15th hot-swap bay, find the cheapest PCI-E x1 SATA card you can find on Newegg and you should be ok. So altogether, that might end up costing you around $500 to $525.

 

[maxse]

Great, thanks bud!
Have a few questions though.

-That controller card seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth to get working? I don't want to risk it not being compatible. I although I didn't read through all the guides yet, I don't really need the card to have any special features (except stability and compatibility) since I will be using FlexRAID. So what would the benefit be for me if I go with that card?

-If I go with 3 of those byas it will be $240 and I will still have 2 slot open which won't be the most esthetic?
----------------
What do you think of me going with some cheaper (3) X 4in3 cages
Than use 2 of these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10824&cs_id=1082402&p_id=3857&seq=1&format=2

That would give me a perfect 14 drives with the entire case used up.

Also,
for the controller what do you think of going with a cheaper Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8?

 

[Dangman]

-That controller card seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth to get working? I don't want to risk it not being compatible. I although I didn't read through all the guides yet, I don't really need the card to have any special features (except stability and compatibility) since I will be using FlexRAID. So what would the benefit be for me if I go with that card?

1) Better support for newer drives
2) Can work with a HP SAS Expander which will you let you add another 32 HDD capability
3) It makes up a lot of the server builds both here at HardForum and the forum over at Servethehome.com which means you have a fairly large support base available as well information available once you use the search function.
4) Relatively high performance

-If I go with 3 of those byas it will be $240 and I will still have 2 slot open which won't be the most esthetic?

Seriously? Aesthetics? It's a server man, not your high-end gaming PC.

----------------
What do you think of me going with some cheaper (3) X 4in3 cages
Than use 2 of these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10824&cs_id=1082402&p_id=3857&seq=1&format=2

That would give me a perfect 14 drives with the entire case used up.

It's not a good idea. First, most of the 4in3 cages I've seen actually cost more than the Norco 5in3 recommended above. Second, it's not cost-effective in terms of space as using two of those single hot-swap bays means you won't be able to get and use a 4th 5in3 module later on. Not to mention that you're using an extra two slots for a lesser amount of drives. That's very inefficient in terms of space. Third, doing that based on aesthetic is utterly a bad idea to me.

Also,
for the controller what do you think of going with a cheaper Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8?

Seems to be a mixed bag when it comes stability/reliability. Not many people here have bought that card so you're effectively on your own with that card. In addition, it doesn't have spin-down capability for the HDDs. So there goes any planned "power efficiency" you may want. Finally, probably the main reason why the AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 and definite reason for the older AOC-SASLP-MV8 not being more popular here on the forums is that they don't work well outside of a Windows based setup. In other words, the non-Windows drivers for those cards suck. Since many of the server builds around the forum these days are not Windows based, either Supermicro card haven't been popular.

 

[maxse]

Wow, Danny, thank you so much for helping out!

So if I go with your recommended controller card from ebay. Would it be difficult to get it to work with WHS 2011? Any flashing of the firmware required? (Just asking since I didn't read through the guides yet and ust the fact that there are guides for a controller card is a bit intimidating). I will read through them when I get home from work. But would be nice to order the parts before hand.

-Spinning down of the drives is definitely a must, thanks.
-Also, you mentioned that I may be able to use another 5in3 somewhere down the line... I'm assumiing you mean with me re-locating the top module somehow?
-Lastly, any suggestion on the card to get for the PCI-E X1 slot that supports drive spin down?
And just out of curiosity, would the BUS speed of the X1 be the limiting factor the hard drives?

 

[Dangman]

Would it be difficult to get it to work with WHS 2011?

AFAIK, not really.

Any flashing of the firmware required?

Yes. There's also the possibility that you may have to use the card on a different mobo to flash it. Though once you flash it, it'll work on most mobos without issue.

-Also, you mentioned that I may be able to use another 5in3 somewhere down the line... I'm assumiing you mean with me re-locating the top module somehow?

Yes

-Lastly, any suggestion on the card to get for the PCI-E X1 slot that supports drive spin down?

None of the top of my head.

And just out of curiosity, would the BUS speed of the X1 be the limiting factor the hard drives?

Not really unless as part of a RAID array.

 

[maxse]

Danny, seems like you are the only one helping me out, I wonder where everyone else is?

Thanks so much though.

Getting another mobo to flash isn't financially feasible and I just don't have the time to play around with getting another motherboard if this doesn't work etc... This is supposed ot be a budget build...

Just to make sure. This card doesn't support drive spin-down in WHS 2011 and FlexRAID?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358

It seems to be pretty popular.
Oh and I will be using some 3tb drives too, so it needs to be able to support those.

 

[Dangman]

Danny, seems like you are the only one helping me out, I wonder where everyone else is?

Probably because your thread is like the hundreds of other "help me build a server thread" in this very sub-forum. People don't want to repeat the same stuff over and over again when a simple search of the forums will do. Hell one could just look/search through this thread and you'll see what people are using for their servers:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1393939

Or those who do IT related work all day in real life for money are too tired at the end of the day to help someone online for free. Or just too tired in general.

Getting another mobo to flash isn't financially feasible and I just don't have the time to play around with getting another motherboard if this doesn't work etc... This is supposed ot be a budget build...

If your main PC has an open PCI-E x16 slot, you can flash it there.

Just to make sure. This card doesn't support drive spin-down in WHS 2011 and FlexRAID?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358

Oh that's the older version of the one you mentioned earlier. That older version does support drive spin-down. However, it appears that you'll still be without forum support here since if you search this forum, there haven't been much talk or use of that card in the past 3-4 months probably due to the aforementioned poor non-Linux driver support.

 

[maxse]

Thank you again Danny, really appreciate everything. I honestly, wouldn't have been able to do it without your help.
I did do some searching but I wanted to make sure what would work with my current components and if I could do anything with my current mobo. Good thing I asked because I would have never though to replace the power supply. Thanks again

BTW, I ordered everything you have suggested including the controller and the cable.
Would I need to order any cables for power? Like a molex splitter or anything?

Also, I have read some threads where they recommend to replace the fans on the back of these cages with quieter ones. Since lower noise is important to me, do you recommend the same? Thank you so much once again, I really appreciate your help!

 

[Dangman]

Good thing I asked because I would have never though to replace the power supply.

To be honest, it was that crappy PSU that made me post in the first place. Otherwise, I actually would have ignored this thread as well. I'm tired too.

Would I need to order any cables for power? Like a molex splitter or anything?

AFAIK no. And good luck!

Also, I have read some threads where they recommend to replace the fans on the back of these cages with quieter ones. Since lower noise is important to me, do you recommend the same? Thank you so much once again, I really appreciate your help!

See for yourself then replace if necessary.

 

[Draugauth]

If you can afford a little extra cash I would look at the Areca line of controllers. Lots of people here use them as well and the new 1882 series supports Sata 3. Granted most will suggest the 8 port one and use a HP Expander if you need more ports but from what I have seen cost wise it's a bit better to get one of the larger port count 1882's unless of course you can find a used 8 port one on the cheap.

Also in regards to the 4224. If you get the 120mm fan wall and use some high quality quiet fans such as the noctua's the case is pretty quiet over all. And that would give you 24 hot swap bays.

 

[maxse]

Finance is definitely an issue and I have already ordered the IBM card.. Thanks

I forgot to ask you guys, how would I install the actual bays in the case? The current 4in3 modules just slide in. And the entire CM Stacker system is just a slide in, and then you have the plastic tabs that you just flip that secures the drives.

I'm assuming these bays will just slide in as well?

 

[maxse]

Okay guys, so I finally got all the parts together and am ready to build this thing.,

I just have one question. On the breakout cable there seems to be an extra connector and I don't know the purpose or even where to plug it into. It looks something like a USB connector that would plug into a motherboard... I am not sure where this goes. I am attaching a picture.

 

[Dangman]

Looks like a USB cable to me but not 100% sure about that.

 

[maxse]

right, but the other end just has a regular port plug to plug into the IBM controller... There's no usb on the other end of the cable...

 

[jojo69]

wait, what exact piece of hardware did this cable come with?

 

[vr.]

Looks like an SGPIO connector to me. They plug in to drive back planes.

 

[maxse]

It is a forward breakout cable that on one end connect to the IBM controller that I bought and on the other hand breaks out into 4-SATA connectors. I bought 2 of these cables from monoprice to plug into Norco S550 cages. However, I do not see this type of connector on the back of the Norco, nor have I ever seen this on the hard drive end. I only have the SATA and power connectors on the back of the norcos.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10254&cs_id=1025406&p_id=8192&seq=1&format=2

That's what I bought. It says it is an 8-pin female power connector. But I have never seen this kind of connector power anything. Do I need to plug this into something? Can I just cut it?
Any suggestions?

 

[-Dragon-]

It's not a power connector it's a SAS sideband cable, for the SAS controller to talk to the backplane, can be used to get various non drive types of data for example enclosure temperature. Basically just ignore them.

 

[maxse]

big problem guys. I am trying to flash the card and after typing just the first line

megarec -writesbr 0 sbrempty.bin

I get 2 lines that say DOS/32A -- Protected mode run-time, copyright Supernar etcc...

And just a flashing cursor and I Cant type anything. What to do guys?

 

[maxse]

Okay so I tried to recreate the USB flash drive and start from scratch. Now when I boot it I get this error in dos and the prompt won't come up!

"Windows NT has found only 0K of low memory" 512k of low memory is required to run Windows NT. You many need to upgrade your computer or run a configuration program provided by the manufacturer."

This computer currently runs WHS without any problems and has 4 gigs of ram! All of which show up in the BIOS

 

[J Macker]

I'm surprised the PSU is still alive. The Truepower I and II series as well as the Smartpower series were well known for their above average death rates due to a poor choice in caps and cooling design. In more specific terms, Antec/CWT specified/used caps (Fuhjyyu caps) that did not respond well to heat. Unfortunately, Antec made the decision to have the PSU fan only ramp at really high temps in an effort to keep the PSU quiet. However, just medium to high temps were enough to screw up the caps so really high temps were murderous. Over time, this degraded the quality and performance of those PSU series. Hell, just mentioning you had a Trupower II PSU to an Antec customer service rep was enough to get it replaced automatically for free from Antec with an Earthwatts when those Trues were still in warranty.

So I recommend the replacing that PSU considering its quality and age.

Is this applicable to my TP-550 New? or is it okay? I haven't used it much, it's only turned occasionally.

*edit* nevermind. Found the answer.

 

[maxse]

Nevermind guys, turns out the USB drive wasn't set as the default boot. Wish me luck!

 

[maxse]

I knew it wasn't going to be that easy.
I followed all of the instructions in the readme file and flashed the P11 firmware, everything went through very smoothly.

I finally booted the machine, the LSI thing comes up, and right when WHS is supposed to boot the monitor just switches to no signal! And nothing is happening! Computer won't boot!

I can't even get into the BIOS SETUP!
I get to the message "Press ctrl+C" to enter LSI config utility or something and then the screen goes blank and won't even boot into BIOS!

Also, the green light on the actual card is blinking green

Am I screwed??

By the way, I could enter the configuration utility of the controller by pressing ctrl+c