Building a new system, thoughts?

[sear]

Right, so at the moment it's looking like I might spring for a system upgrade. My current one is an Athlon 64 X2 6000+ that I've had overclocked to 3.2 GHz stable for the last couple of years; however, it's starting to show its age a little bit as games are becoming limited more by my CPU than my GPU (8800 GT; I game at 1680x1050 so unless I turn on AA there aren't any issues). With Fermi coming out next year I'm waiting on the GPU upgrades anyway, so it's not like I need to wait and save up for one of those. I have a few questions regarding my potential new build.

I guess the big issue for me is, how much of an improvement can I expect going from my 6000+ with 2 GB of RAM to a Core i7 920 with 6 GB? Is the $700ish asking price really justified? I know the X58 platform has upgrade potential, so that's a factor for me, but what kind of improvement can I expect in both games and general system use, aside from the obvious multi-taksing benefits that come from having more memory? Some benchmarks I've looked at have suggested I could see a huge improvement to my minimum framerates, close 40% or higher (the most important, since I usually get 50-60 average but with very noticeable drops in many games), but I'm dubious of them.

Second of all, I've been looking into memory. It gets cheaper every single day, it seems, and I'll definitely be going for a 6 GB kit. However, one thing I'm not sure about is whether or not I need to go for modules with a very high speed. According to articles I've read, there is some scaling potential at higher speeds, but it doesn't make a significant improvement. I've been looking into DDR3-1333 for its balanced cost, performance and overclocking potential, but since I do plan on overclocking, I'm curious if it's worth the money to invest in more. I'm not looking for bragging rights and a few more points in 3DMark, just a noticeable improvement to my computing. I'm also wondering if there is a significant difference between manufacturers when it comes to memory. In benchmarks, Patriot, OCZ, G.Skill etc. all appear to be nearly neck-and-neck, but their price can vary quite a bit. Is there really any reason not to get something cheaper, if it's a reputable brand?

Last, a couple short notes. I've got a Corsair HX-520W power supply which is serving me very well. I assume that it's all I need for a Core i7 920 and a single GPU, and will do just fine even with overclocking, but if anyone thinks otherwise, let me know. I've also got an Antec 900 case, and since I plan on getting an aftermarket heatsink, am I going to run into issues with space? I don't want to buy a new case and I'm not sure if I can accommodate a Thermalright Ultra-120, so if there's anything that performs well but is a bit smaller, I'd love to hear about it.

Oh, the motherboard I've decided on is this one:

GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

It's fairly fast, overclocks decently, but my biggest concern is the price - I don't think there's a cheaper Core i7 motherboard that performs as well and has the same feature set. Unless anyone has any horror stories about it, I'm going with one of them.

Sorry for the long post, but I'd appreciate any answers that you guys can provide. It's been a while since I've built a system and it's never something I take lightly.

 

[Dangman]

Well whether or not the Core i7 is worth it depends on your exact usage. For straight up gaming and general usage, a Core i7 is a bit overkill considering the release of the Core i5 CPUs. If you do a ton of multi-tasking, photoshop, virtualization, and/or multimedia work, the asking price for the Core i7 is justifiied

For overclocking, DDR3 1600 is about the best bang for the buck when it comes to cost, performance, and overclock capability. Anything higher speed is generally not worth the costs. In addition, the lower timings don't really show in real-world usage so you can go with low speed and high latency DDR3 RAM and still get the same real world performance from a high-speed and low latency DDR3 RAM set.

The Corsai 520HX is more than enough for that kind of setup. You will have some slight issues with space with the Antec 900 case. Not too sure if the TRUE 120 will fit.

Motherboard wise, IMO, the GA-EX58-UD3R is not a good buy considering that it only has 4 RAM slots compared to most other X58 mobos with six RAM slots. If you only want 4 RAM slots, you might as well go with a Core i5 setup. I mean, one of the major points of a Core i7/X58 setup are the six RAM slots. The Asus P6T SE is also a good choice.

 

[sear]

Thanks for the quick and thorough reply.

Well whether or not the Core i7 is worth it depends on your exact usage. For straight up gaming and general usage, a Core i7 is a bit overkill considering the release of the Core i5 CPUs. If you do a ton of multi-tasking, photoshop, virtualization, and/or multimedia work, the asking price for the Core i7 is justifiied

I definitely do multi-tasking, but not on an extreme level. The ability to have a responsive system with lots of applications open at once is something that I'm very interested in, even though gaming is my primary motivation for upgrading. The Core i5 750 doesn't seem to be worthwhile for me since if you're going for value, there are Core 2s and Phenom IIs that perform just as well and for less money.

For overclocking, DDR3 1600 is about the best bang for the buck when it comes to cost, performance, and overclock capability. Anything higher speed is generally not worth the costs. In addition, the lower timings don't really show in real-world usage so you can go with low speed and high latency DDR3 RAM and still get the same real world performance from a high-speed and low latency DDR3 RAM set.

Fair enough. The price difference between different speeds isn't very pronounced until you start to get into DDR3-2000 and above, anyway.

The Corsai 520HX is more than enough for that kind of setup. You will have some slight issues with space with the Antec 900 case. Not too sure if the TRUE 120 will fit.

I've read that the TRUE 120 doesn't fit in an Antec 900 if you have a side fan, which I do. That's primarily why I'm looking for something a bit smaller. Preferably, I'm interested in good performance and fairly low noise, but I don't need something totally silent.

Motherboard wise, IMO, the GA-EX58-UD3R is not a good buy considering that it only has 4 RAM slots compared to most other X58 mobos with six RAM slots. If you only want 4 RAM slots, you might as well go with a Core i5 setup. I mean, one of the major points of a Core i7/X58 setup are the six RAM slots. The Asus P6T SE is also a good choice.

That shouldn't be an issue for me. I don't need more than the 16 GB of RAM supported by that board, and the 4 slots isn't a problem since I'm going 3x2 GB modules anyway. I don't think there's any advantage to 6 discrete slots unless you're building some heavy-duty video editing rig or a server. I will investigate the P6T SE, however. My only issue with ASUS is that they tend to give up on supporting their motherboards a year or two after release - my current board, an M2NPV-VM, runs alright, but it's got some chipset-related issues, and they don't bother updating the BIOS anymore, despite the most recent one not even working for most users.

 

[Dangman]

I definitely do multi-tasking, but not on an extreme level. The ability to have a responsive system with lots of applications open at once is something that I'm very interested in, even though gaming is my primary motivation for upgrading. The Core i5 750 doesn't seem to be worthwhile for me since if you're going for value, there are Core 2s and Phenom IIs that perform just as well and for less money.

Well building a new C2D/C2Q based setup is mostly a bad idea anyway considering that A) AMD Phenom II CPUs are equal if not faster performing, B) it's a dead socket, and C) more expensive than AMD Phenom II and almost close to a Core i5 setup in price.

I disagree wholly that the Core i5 is not worthwhile considering the performance that the Core i5 750 offers for the price. Also note that a responsive system is also dependent on the hard drive as well as the CPU. So if you have an older hard drive, might be a good idea to upgrade the hard drive as well.

I've read that the TRUE 120 doesn't fit in an Antec 900 if you have a side fan, which I do. That's primarily why I'm looking for something a bit smaller. Preferably, I'm interested in good performance and fairly low noise, but I don't need something totally silent.

Well first we need to determine if you actually need a Core i7 or Core i5 setup.

That shouldn't be an issue for me. I don't need more than the 16 GB of RAM supported by that board, and the 4 slots isn't a problem since I'm going 3x2 GB modules anyway. I don't think there's any advantage to 6 discrete slots unless you're building some heavy-duty video editing rig or a server.

Well lets look at it this way: A Core i5 setup with 8GB of RAM will cost roughly the same as a Core i7 with 6GB of RAM. Since you've said that you do not need more than 4 RAM slots nor are you doing anything remotely heavy (VMs, multimedia editing, etc), IMO, you do not need a Core i7/X58 setup.

 

[engiNURD]

who's got the cliffs notes?

 

[sear]

who's got the cliffs notes?

Sorry, but if you don't want to read, then why are you even here?

 

[engiNURD]

Sorry, but if you don't want to read, then why are you even here?

Because I'm looking for the cliffs notes. I also like to help, but if you can't help me help you, then I can't help you. Why don't you want to help me help you?

Besides, its not that I don't want to read, its just that I feel you could have gotten the same info/msg across without using so many words. A more efficient post is what I'm seeking.

 

[sear]

Because I'm looking for the cliffs notes. I also like to help, but if you can't help me help you, then I can't help you. Why don't you want to help me help you?

Besides, its not that I don't want to read, its just that I feel you could have gotten the same info/msg across without using so many words. A more efficient post is what I'm seeking.

Fine. But you easily could have read that all in the time it took you to reply twice.

Anyway, I have an Anthlon 64 X2 6000+ with 2 GB of RAM and am very close to buying a Core i7 920 system my questions are:

Would this be a worthwhile upgrade for me? Most things indicate that it would be, but I am spending around $700 on just a CPU, motherboard and memory here.

This motherboard is cheap, but very good, according to reviews I've read. Is it acceptable considering the price of it?

Do DD3 memory speeds and timings really matter too much for overclocking, so long as I'm not interested in pushing things to the absolute limit for bragging rights? Is it worth going for DDR3-1600 over DDR3-1333, for example?

Similarly, are memory brands that important these days, or can I just go with any old G.Skill or OCZ kit and be happy? There's a major price difference between some even though the specs and warranty are the same, and I just want to make sure I'm not screwing myself over.

Regarding heatsinks, is there anything close to being as effective as the TRUE while maintaining a smaller form factor? I have an Antec 900 and don't want to have to cut holes in it to get the cooler to fit.

See, I made it shorter, but there's still plenty there.

 

[engiNURD]

Looks like Danny answered all of your questions, lol.

The CoGage True Spirit should fit fine in the 900.

Unfortunately, Gigabyte discontinued the EX-58-UD4P, so there isn't anything between the UD3R and the UD5 anymore on their X58 lineup. If the limited number of RAM slots doesn't bother you, then the UD3R is a good choice.

$700?!?! Oh... you're in Canada. What are the most intensive tasks you do with your system?

For a noticeable improvement, you'll want a couple Indilinx based SSDs in RAID0 (or Intel X25-M's). Though, again, quite pricey still.

 

[sear]

The CoGage True Spirit should fit fine in the 900.

It's almost an exact clone of the TRUE, isn't it? Same size and everything... either way, I decided to go for the Scythe Mugen 2. Performance is just as good if not better than the TRUE, and it's cheaper. The size is a bit of an issue, but I'll have an easier time fitting it into my case because it's not quite as tall as the TRUE is (only 5mm or so; I won't have to remove the side fan hopefully).

Unfortunately, Gigabyte discontinued the EX-58-UD4P, so there isn't anything between the UD3R and the UD5 anymore on their X58 lineup. If the limited number of RAM slots doesn't bother you, then the UD3R is a good choice.

I noticed that most stores don't have it available anymore. Either way, I think I'll be happy with the UD3R. It's not the best board by any means, but someone at a nearby computer store said he managed to overclock his i7 920 to 4.0 GHz on air cooling without even increasing the voltage, while his friend only got 3.4 GHz. Seems like it's going to be luck of the draw with both the motherboard and the CPU, but if I get a D0 stepping it might be easier.

$700?!?! Oh... you're in Canada. What are the most intensive tasks you do with your system?

Aside from playing games like Crysis, probably audio recording and production. Having 16+ tracks all with active real-time effects sucks RAM and CPU like little else, and will reduce the system to a crawl.

And yeah, as for the price, with taxes and shipping, the computer would cost around $700-800 depending on what I get.

For a noticeable improvement, you'll want a couple Indilinx based SSDs in RAID0 (or Intel X25-M's). Though, again, quite pricey still.

Well, I'm talking about noticeable outside of just general responsiveness. I plan to upgrade to an SSD as a boot drive once they become reasonable in price and capacity.

Oh, and as for RAM, I decided to go with some Corsair XMS DDR3-1600. I got some advice saying it's best to go for more stable brands like Corsair and Mushkin than it is to cheap out on G.Skill and OCZ, which tend to perform well but are unreliable.

Thanks for the help guys, hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll have a brand-new system to coincide with the arrival of Windows 7.

 

[engiNURD]

In my experience, G.Skills have not been any less reliable than Mushkin, Kingston, nor Corsair kits. I have had occasional issues with OCZ, though. I hold Corsair and Kingston in a higher regard than the rest, but lately, G.Skill has been doing just as great for less money -- and I love saving money yet getting the same exact performance.

Basically, for DDR2/3 RAM compatibility, keep the voltage as close to JEDEC spec as possible and you should be fine. You can always check the ram list and see which modules use which ICs, in case the specific model isn't listed in the QVL.