Building a New PC

[JC0724]

First off I want to thank everybody for taking the time out to help me. I haven't build a PC in a long time so I have forgotten a lot. I will answer the require questions as best as I can, then gave you my personal thoughts.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?
Gaming

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
My budget is 2500 dollars.

3) Where do you live?
Phoenix, Arizona


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
I am building it from scratch. So I believe I will need
Display(2 displays)
Power supply
Case
Motherboard
Video Card
CPU
Cooling Fans
Memory/RAM
Optical Drives
Hard Drives
Operating System

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
Not Reusing


6) Will you be overclocking?
No

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
At least 19" inches

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I am starting my research now, I plan to start buying components in about 2 or 3 weeks, maybe 4. So I will probably start building my PC in early to mid December.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
um I am not exactly sure here to be honest. I would like SLI or Crossfire(I am still learning what this is), RAID, SATA, and USB

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable
No

So here is what I am thinking. I have only built 2 PCs. My last one I built 6 years ago and it has lasted me up until now, but at this point every game I play has to be on the lowest settings. So time to build a new one in my mind.

So I don't know how accurate my info is but here are my idea's for my parts

Case
-I am thinking Antec(they same pretty good).
-Mid to Full Tower(I don't remember how big a mid tower is or if it would be big enough)
-I am also concerned about heat and noise(not sure how many fans the case should hold)

Questions
-what is the difference between ATX and the extended ATX?
-Can I put any power supply in any Case??
-what is an eSATA port?

Power Supply
-600 watts or more(I can't remember how many watts is good but I think 500 should be the least amount)
-Not sure what are some good power supply brands. I am thinking and Antec power supply.

Processor
-I am leaning towards Intel but love to hear some opinions here

Questions
-Does the processor some with the heatsink/thermo fluid that automatically melts when you cut it on? Or do you have to put the fluid on yourself?

Motherboard
-if I get an Intel Processor I am thinking I will go with an Intel mother board(but open to other suggestion here).

Questions
-Is ATX or BTX the way to go here? I don't really know the difference or which one is still in the majority?

RAM
-I believe I should have at least 4 Gigs of RAM
-I am thinking of going with Corsair(from my research they are pretty good)

Questions
-How does fast CAS Lantency and ECC memory(I believe this is for error checking) work?

Video Card

Questions
-I am not sure what to look for here?
-I am not sure which brand is good here. Ex ASUS, EVGA, SAPPHIRE etc?
-Is Crossfire and SLI the samething just one is for ATI and the other is from NVIDIA?

Display
-don't know much, just that I want 2 LCD Monitors

HardDrive
-Probably going with Seagate(open to other idea's)
-I am not sure on size but I am thinking 500 gigs is good.

Questions
-how important are the RAID set ups. Do they really help?
-for packaging. What is the difference between a bare drive and retail?

 

[morningreis]

Case
-I am thinking Antec(they same pretty good).
-Mid to Full Tower(I don't remember how big a mid tower is or if it would be big enough)
-I am also concerned about heat and noise(not sure how many fans the case should hold)

Antec do make really good cases. I am an Antec user myself, but there are other really good brands too. Lian-Li and Thermaltake come to mind.

Questions
-what is the difference between ATX and the extended ATX?
-Can I put any power supply in any Case??
-what is an eSATA port?

Not sure about extended ATX...

eSATA = External SATA. So instead of hooking up an external Hard Drive via USB, you can hook it up via SATA just as you would inside the PC allowing better transfer rates. The connector for eSATA is slightly different, but it will function the same as if your HD was inside your computer.

Yes any PS *should* fit in any case.

Power Supply
-600 watts or more(I can't remember how many watts is good but I think 500 should be the least amount)
-Not sure what are some good power supply brands. I am thinking and Antec power supply.

600W is not going to be enough if you are looking for an SLI setup. I would go with something closer to 900-1000W. Just remember when buying your PSU though - QUALITY is the most important thing. Antec makes ok PSUs, as does Corsair, Seasonic, Thermaltake, Fortron, Mushkin. These are just PSUs that I've used int he past and have shown themselves to be of good quality.

Processor
-I am leaning towards Intel but love to hear some opinions here

With your budget, you can definitely go Intel and you will probably need if if you're looking to go SLI. Intel i7 950 is a winner here. Good price for plenty of performance. Room for overclockability when you come to that.

Questions
-Does the processor some with the heatsink/thermo fluid that automatically melts when you cut it on? Or do you have to put the fluid on yourself?

The stock cooler will have thermal paste already applied, you just need to put the HS on the CPU. Don't bother with that though. Get yourself an aftermarket cooler right off the bat. You will need to apply your own thermal paste, but that is trivial.

Motherboard
-if I get an Intel Processor I am thinking I will go with an Intel mother board(but open to other suggestion here).

Get an x58 chipset motherboard.

Questions
-Is ATX or BTX the way to go here? I don't really know the difference or which one is still in the majority?

ATX is the majority.

RAM
-I believe I should have at least 4 Gigs of RAM
-I am thinking of going with Corsair(from my research they are pretty good)

I would say go with 6GB minimum. Nowadays we can do triple channel memory instead of just dual channel. Buy yourself a quality 3x2GB kit. Corsair is good. I love Mushkin RAM myself. There are loads of good Memory brands. G.Skill, Crucial, Patriot, Kingston, OCZ...

Questions
-How does fast CAS Lantency and ECC memory(I believe this is for error checking) work?

Sorry don't know.

Video Card

Questions
-I am not sure what to look for here?
-I am not sure which brand is good here. Ex ASUS, EVGA, SAPPHIRE etc?
-Is Crossfire and SLI the samething just one is for ATI and the other is from NVIDIA?

The AMD 68x0 line and the Nvidia 400 series are top performers right now, but expect a new generation of cards to be released in a few weeks.
Again a million brands for video cards.
Pretty much. SLI = Nvidia Crossfire = ATI

Display
-don't know much, just that I want 2 LCD Monitors

Cool story bro

HardDrive
-Probably going with Seagate(open to other idea's)
-I am not sure on size but I am thinking 500 gigs is good.

1TB drives only cost around $55. You can also buy a Solid-State Drive to install windows and boot from for those super fast boot times. These are much smaller in capacity, and much more expensive, but much faster.

Questions
-how important are the RAID set ups. Do they really help?
-for packaging. What is the difference between a bare drive and retail?

A bare drive (OEM) will come with no documentation, screws, or cables. So hopefully you have spare SATA cables laying around. 99% of the time this is all I need though. I don't want all the other junk the package with it.

 

[Dangman]

Case
-I am thinking Antec(they same pretty good).
-Mid to Full Tower(I don't remember how big a mid tower is or if it would be big enough)
-I am also concerned about heat and noise(not sure how many fans the case should hold)

Just avoid Antec' Gamer series cases. I.e the Antec 900, 902, and 1200 cases. They're poor choices for the money considering that there are a ton of other cases out there that provides the same level of cooling but significantly more room and at a lower cost.

I recommend taking a look at these cases:
$70 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56 ATX Case
$70 - Cooler Master RC-590-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$70 - Cooler Master CM690 II Basic ATX Case
$85 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$105 - Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX Case (Fill in the ++++ with "N C I X" without the spaces)
$105 - Fractal Design Define R3 Titanium ATX Case (Fill in the ++++ with "N C I X" without the spaces)
$105 - Fractal Design Define R3 Silver ATX Case (Fill in the ++++ with "N C I X" without the spaces)
$100 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-7FN ATX Case
$120 - Velocity Micro GX2-W Silver Classic Aluminum Case with Side Window
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$135 - Antec P183 ATX Case
$160 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$180 - Cooler Master Cosmos S 1000 RC-1100-KSN1-GP Full Tower ATX Case
$200 - Cooler Master ATCS 840 RC-840-KKN1-GP Full Tower ATX Case
$200 - Lian Li PC-B25F ATX Case
$240 - Silverstone FT02B-W ATX Case
$220 - Lian Li PC-A71F Black ATX Case
$270 - Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Full Tower ATX Case
$330 - Silverstone Temjin SST-TJ07B Full Tower ATX Case

Questions
-what is the difference between ATX and the extended ATX?
-Can I put any power supply in any Case??
-what is an eSATA port?

- Extended ATX is simply an ATX motherboard that's been extended to fit in more RAM slots and CPUs. You generally only see eATX used for server motherboards. So basically, you don't ahve to worry about that. Though generally if a case can fit eATX, that means that there will be more room than normal when you use an ATX motherboard

- If they're ATX PSUs, then yes you can place them in any ATX style case

- eSATA port is basically a SATA port rated for external connection. Think of it as a USB port but for hard drives only.

Power Supply
-600 watts or more(I can't remember how many watts is good but I think 500 should be the least amount)
-Not sure what are some good power supply brands. I am thinking and Antec power supply.

With PSUs, you're gonna have to go on a PSU by PSU basis and not just the brand alone since many PSU companies do have less than quality PSUs available. But generally, Corsair (not their CX or GS line), Antec (not their Basiq line), XFX, Seasonic, Thermaltake (Only their Toughpower and Purepower RX line) are good PSU brands. Fortorn and Mushkin are not good brands.

Processor
-I am leaning towards Intel but love to hear some opinions here

Considering your budget, go for Intel. Specifically the Intel Core i5 750 CPU as that's all the CPU you'll need for gaming PC.

Zero need for a Core i7 + X58 setup here.

Questions
-Does the processor some with the heatsink/thermo fluid that automatically melts when you cut it on? Or do you have to put the fluid on yourself?

Yes the heatsink that comes with the CPU already has thermal paste on it. So no need to apply the thermal paste your self.

Motherboard
-if I get an Intel Processor I am thinking I will go with an Intel mother board(but open to other suggestion here).

Probably not the best of ideas here. Intel mobos tends to lack a lot of features that other motherboards have.

Questions
-Is ATX or BTX the way to go here? I don't really know the difference or which one is still in the majority?

ATX is the only standard now. BTX has been out of market for close to 7 years now.

RAM
-I believe I should have at least 4 Gigs of RAM
-I am thinking of going with Corsair(from my research they are pretty good)

G.Skill RAM are just as good as Corsair RAM but cheaper priced. However, make sure whatever RAM you get is rated at 1.5V.

Questions
-How does fast CAS Lantency and ECC memory(I believe this is for error checking) work?

Honestly, not worth the time worrying or thinking about. low CAS latency doesn't matter that much these days in most real world apps and games. ECC RAM really comes in handy if you have a server.

Questions
-I am not sure what to look for here?
-I am not sure which brand is good here. Ex ASUS, EVGA, SAPPHIRE etc?
-Is Crossfire and SLI the samething just one is for ATI and the other is from NVIDIA?

It really depends on what monitor size you have. With that said, best bang for the buck also matters here too. In this case, the AMD HD 6850 and HD 6870 are pretty much the best bang for the buck video cards out now.

For AMD manufacturers, Asus, Powercolor, Gigabyte, and XFX are good brands.

Crossfire is AMD's multi-GPU gaming tech and SLI is Nvidia's multi-GPU gaming tech.

HardDrive
-Probably going with Seagate(open to other idea's)
-I am not sure on size but I am thinking 500 gigs is good.

Actually, Seagate would not be a good choice. The decision to cut their warranty down to 3 years, inability to make really fast drives compared to their competitors, and relatively high prices pretty makes Seagate a not so good brand any more.

These are the fastest and best bang for the buck consumer grade drives out now
$55 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$55 - Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$70 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Questions
-how important are the RAID set ups. Do they really help?
-for packaging. What is the difference between a bare drive and retail?

They only help if you need the decreased load times.

Retail means that it comes with a CD, screws for hard drive installation, and a SATA cable. However most hard drive manufacturers allow you to download the ISO or program from that CD from their site. Most costs will already come with all the screws you need to install a hard drive. SATA cables already comes with the motherboard.

 

[Dangman]

And just for the hell of it, here's a prelim build for ya:
$365 - Intel Core i5 750 CPU + Asus P7P55D-E Pro Intel P55 ATX Motherboard Combo
$134 - 2 x G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$480 - 2 x Asus EAH6870/2DI2S/1GD5 Radeon HD 6870 1GB PCI-E Video Card
$240 - OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE120G 2.5" 120GB SSD
$70 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$23 - LG GH22NS50 DVD Burner
$160 - Corsair 850HX 850W Modular PSU
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$100 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
$320 - 2 x Acer G235HAbd Black 23" Widescreen LCD Monitor
----
Total: $2052 plus tax and shipping.

Note that I actually went overkill on the SSD, RAM, PSU (spent the extra cash for modular cables) and case but you had the budget room for it and they were that huge waste of money.

Some notes about the above build:
- Install your OS and critical apps on the SSD. Leave your actualy data on the 1TB drive
- 8GB of RAM is overkill for a gaming PC but as mentioned earlier, it's there just because.
- The Silverston Raven case case happens to be one of the quietest gaming PC cases out there.

 

[JC0724]

1TB drives only cost around $55. You can also buy a Solid-State Drive to install windows and boot from for those super fast boot times. These are much smaller in capacity, and much more expensive, but much faster.

How exactly does an SSD drive work? Or here is a better question. If I get an SSD drive. I put my OS on there. Say if I want to install a new program like a Game or new software. Since my OS is on the SSD drive, want all my other application I install be on the SSD drive as well??

Meaning the tera drive is much bigger so I would prefer to install my OS on the SSD drive (for faster loading times)but like for example put World of Warcraft on the Tera Hard drive and save my games there. Is that possible? Or is that even smart?

Right now I am looking at the SSD drive for speed and the TeraDrive for space.

 

[Dangman]

How exactly does an SSD drive work? Or here is a better question. If I get an SSD drive. I put my OS on there. Say if I want to install a new program like a Game or new software. Since my OS is on the SSD drive, want all my other application I install be on the SSD drive as well??

Meaning the tera drive is much bigger so I would prefer to install my OS on the SSD drive (for faster loading times)but like for example put World of Warcraft on the Tera Hard drive and save my games there. Is that possible? Or is that even smart?

Right now I am looking at the SSD drive for speed and the TeraDrive for space.

Well it really depends on the size of the SSD you're gonna have and the size of the program you're gonna install. But generally, you keep the OS on the SSD and game installations on the 1TB drive. Yes it is possible to put games on the hard drive. Yes it's smart.

 

[JC0724]

ok now with that said. As far as Hard drives and SSD goes. I am thinking of Getting an SSD drive for my OS, 1TB drive for other program installs(games, etc) and another drive(not sure if it should be a regular Hard drive or a SSD drive) for Linux.

So in Total 3 hard drives. 1 SSD and 1 TB for sure. And another for Linux, any ideas if I should make the LInux another SSD or regular Hard drive?

 

[Dangman]

ok now with that said. As far as Hard drives and SSD goes. I am thinking of Getting an SSD drive for my OS, 1TB drive for other program installs(games, etc) and another drive(not sure if it should be a regular Hard drive or a SSD drive) for Linux.

So in Total 3 hard drives. 1 SSD and 1 TB for sure. And another for Linux, any ideas if I should make the LInux another SSD or regular Hard drive?

If you have the budget, put Linux on another SSD. If not, put it on a hard drive. Oh and stick to Intel or OCZ Vertex 2 SSDs.

 

[morningreis]

How exactly does an SSD drive work? Or here is a better question. If I get an SSD drive. I put my OS on there. Say if I want to install a new program like a Game or new software. Since my OS is on the SSD drive, want all my other application I install be on the SSD drive as well??

Meaning the tera drive is much bigger so I would prefer to install my OS on the SSD drive (for faster loading times)but like for example put World of Warcraft on the Tera Hard drive and save my games there. Is that possible? Or is that even smart?

Right now I am looking at the SSD drive for speed and the TeraDrive for space.

You can install stuff anywhere you want. You can even move your Program Files folder if you wish.

Personally, I would put my OS on the SSD, and other items where I care about load times (such as games), keeping in mind of course that space is limited. I'll save the other drive for my movies, downloads, music, documents, etc. I don't have an SSD yet, but this is how I'm planning to set it up!

 

[JC0724]

Questions
Cases
-What is the difference between a Ball-Bearing Fan vs a regular Fan?
-Is the bigger the fan in mm better for noise or airflow or both??
- Also is it better for the fan to move at a faster RPM? Does that mean more noise?
-Does it matter if the Case is steel vs Aluminum? How much better is Aluminum for heat?

Power Supply
-How much power in watts should a power suppy have at least for a gamming PC? Also how much if the PC was running SLI or Crossfire??
-If the Power Supply says SLI/Crossfire Ready or Certified, does that mean it can run them both with no problems.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

-Is the bigger the fan in mm better for noise or airflow or both??
- Also is it better for the fan to move at a faster RPM? Does that mean more noise?

Generally bigger fans don't need to spin so fast to move the same amount of air as a smaller fan, so they will be quieter at a given CFM, or they will give more CFM at a given noise level. As for noise, yes. Bigger rpm means more noise. However, it's variable between manufacturers and between models, and there are different types of noise - for example, a high-pitched whine will probably be more annoying and "louder" than a low hum, even though they might have the same intensity sound.

-How much power in watts should a power suppy have at least for a gamming PC? Also how much if the PC was running SLI or Crossfire??
-If the Power Supply says SLI/Crossfire Ready or Certified, does that mean it can run them both with no problems.

It depends on the components you have. You shouldn't need more than 600W or so for a decent processor overclocked and single GPU. obviously, as you add in GPUs and other components like HDDs, fans, etc (though these add only a small amount of power compared to the CPU and GPU) your power requirements will increase. As for certification, I would assume that if it is Crossfire certified it will also run SLI, certification or no. NVidia is really annoying about SLI certification for motherboards, I don't know how it works for PSUs though. As long as the PSU is good, and it has enough amps on the 12V rails and enough connectors it should be fine.

 

[JC0724]

Questions

Power Supply
What does is the EPS 12 V for?
1 x 8-Pin EPS 12V

Does it matter if the Case is steel vs Aluminum?
I know Aluminum Cases are suppose to let the heat escape faster then steel, but is it really a significant difference?

 

[Dangman]

-What is the difference between a Ball-Bearing Fan vs a regular Fan?

Regular fans can be ball-bearing and vice versa. Ball bearing is simply another method of fan operation. Ball bearing fans tend to last a lot longer than their sleeve-bearing, another fan method/operation, counterparts.

Power Supply
-How much power in watts should a power suppy have at least for a gamming PC? Also how much if the PC was running SLI or Crossfire??
-If the Power Supply says SLI/Crossfire Ready or Certified, does that mean it can run them both with no problems.

Wattage isn't the only thing you should look at in a PSU. You also have to look at how much amperage or wattage there is on the +12V rail. That's where a vast majority of PC parts draw power from. Read this FAQ to learn more about how to choose a good PSU:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

As for SLI/Crossfire ready/certified, that is more or less a marketing gimmick. I've seen dozens of shitty PSUs that's "SLI/Crossfire ready/certified". Mr. Pedantic is right in that as long as the PSU has enough amperage and connectors on the +12V rail to handle the video cards and the system itself, that PSU will be enough for SLI/Crossfire regardless of whether or not it says so.

Power Supply
What does is the EPS 12 V for?
1 x 8-Pin EPS 12V

To provide more power to the CPU area.

Does it matter if the Case is steel vs Aluminum?
I know Aluminum Cases are suppose to let the heat escape faster then steel, but is it really a significant difference?

It really depends on the case actually. There are some Aluminum cases that can't cool anywhere near as well as some steel cases and vice vera. However what's occuring more and more reoccuring are cases made up of aluminum and steel.

 

[JC0724]

Questions
Motherboard Memory Standards

DDR3 2200(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1800(O.C.)/1600(O.C.)/1333/1066

what exactly does this mean? what does the O.C. mean? The numbers are for the Ram right? Meaning I can get DDR3 Ram for 1600 or DDR3 for 1333? I don't understand why it has the " / " sign there?

 

[JC0724]

Also what is the Difference between an OEM Operating System and a Retail? Do they both work for a newly built PC?

 

[Dangman]

Questions
Motherboard Memory Standards

DDR3 2200(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1800(O.C.)/1600(O.C.)/1333/1066

what exactly does this mean? what does the O.C. mean? The numbers are for the Ram right? Meaning I can get DDR3 Ram for 1600 or DDR3 for 1333? I don't understand why it has the " / " sign there?

O.C means that the stated RAM speed is only attainable if you OC the CPU. Yes it means that you can get DDR3 1600 or DDR3 1333 RAM and it'll work with the motherboard. The "/" just seperates the RAM speeds Simple as that. Sorta like "Fried Chicken/Tofu/Rice/Noodles/Banana" etc. Get it?

Note that since you're not overclocking, all you need is DDR3 1333 RAM. You're not gonna notice an IOTA of real world performance difference between DDR3 1333 and DDR3 2200.

Also what is the Difference between an OEM Operating System and a Retail? Do they both work for a newly built PC?

Both will work with a newly built PC. OEM means that the license stays with and dies with that PC. Retail basically means that you can move the license to a new PC once your old PC dies or is no longer in use in one way or another. However many people just pick up the OEM version, and once they move to a new PC, just call up Microsoft to reissue a new key on the basis of their motherboard dying or some other ficitional tale.

 

[JC0724]

If my Video Card supports dual Montors. Will it be possible for me to be playing a PC game on one display while running another application(ex. Web browser or Media player) in the other display? Or will the game automatically take over both displays?

 

[Dangman]

If my Video Card supports dual Montors. Will it be possible for me to be playing a PC game on one display while running another application(ex. Web browser or Media player) in the other display?

Yes. I do that exact thing all the time.