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Building a new PC.

M

MoeB

n00b
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
20
Howdy gents. I haven't built a gaming rig in 3 years now and I would really appreciate your comments on the hardware selection:

FYI: I game on a 1920x1200 monitor.

Items:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
ASUS P5K-E WiFi-AP socket 775 Intel P35
BFG GeForce 8800 GTS OC2 320mb
OCZ StealthXstream 600W
Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800Mhz

Your comments would be much appreciated.
 
Why would you get the 320MB GTS when you can get the 8800GT with 512MB?
 
First off, ditch the PSU. It's an FSP Episilon based PSU that has out of spec ripple, or voltage fluctuations, at high loads that can damage your parts over time, Granted you may not reach such high loads but why buy a PSU that has a good chance of damaging/killing your system?

Second, The 8800GT is just as fast an 8800GTX but it's the same price as that 8800GTS 320MB. I recommend getting this card ASAP before stock runs out:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130303

And some more questions so we can help you better:
- What's your budget?
- Will you be overclocking?
- What else will you be doing with this PC besides gaming?
- What features are you looking for in a mobo? RAID? Firewire? More than 4 SATA ports? etc
 
Danny Bui said:
First off, ditch the PSU. It's an FSP Episilon based PSU that has out of spec ripple, or voltage fluctuations, at high loads that can damage your parts over time, Granted you may not reach such high loads but why buy a PSU that has a good chance of damaging/killing your system?

Second, The 8800GT is just as fast an 8800GTX but it's the same price as that 8800GTS 320MB. I recommend getting this card ASAP before stock runs out:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130303

And some more questions so we can help you better:
- What's your budget?
- Will you be overclocking?
- What else will you be doing with this PC besides gaming?
- What features are you looking for in a mobo? RAID? Firewire? More than 4 SATA ports? etc
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip regarding the PSU.
I will take your advice on the vcard as well.

My budget is <= $1000.
I will be over clocking but I can live with stock settings.
This is going to be only serving as a gaming PC.
In regards to the mobo, I'm not looking for specific features, although I'd like to have all the standard features that are offered these days.
 
Ok so I ordered a BFG GeForce 8800GT OC2 nVidia GeForce 8800GT.
With regards to a PSU, what would you guys recommend?
 
Danny Bui said:
(snip)

Second, The 8800GT is just as fast an 8800GTX but it's the same price as that 8800GTS 320MB. I recommend getting this card ASAP before stock runs out:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130303

(snip)
Click to expand...

Agree with everything else said, but no, the GT is not at all as fast as a GTX, particularly at resolutions as high as 1920x1200. The GT without AA is often as fast as a GTX with 4x+ AA. Reviews here and elsewhere show as much. At that res, however, I'd suggest a GTX, or GTs in SLI / 3870s in Crossfire.
 
silent-circuit said:
Agree with everything else said, but no, the GT is not at all as fast as a GTX, particularly at resolutions as high as 1920x1200. The GT without AA is often as fast as a GTX with 4x+ AA. Reviews here and elsewhere show as much. At that res, however, I'd suggest a GTX, or GTs in SLI / 3870s in Crossfire.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. However I'm trying to get the card that gives the most bang for the buck. While the GT, as you said, may not be as fast as the GTX, it is still one hell of a card :)
 
silent-circuit said:
Agree with everything else said, but no, the GT is not at all as fast as a GTX, particularly at resolutions as high as 1920x1200. The GT without AA is often as fast as a GTX with 4x+ AA. Reviews here and elsewhere show as much. At that res, however, I'd suggest a GTX, or GTs in SLI / 3870s in Crossfire.
Click to expand...

The GT is only a few framerates slower than the GTX.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3140&p=9

And yet the GTX costs 2x more than the GT.
 
MoeB said:
Ok so I ordered a BFG GeForce 8800GT OC2 nVidia GeForce 8800GT.
With regards to a PSU, what would you guys recommend?
Click to expand...

Corsair 520HX/550VX, or if you're on a budget the Xclio StablePower line is an option as well. SeaSonic too.
 
silent-circuit said:
Corsair 520HX/550VX, or if you're on a budget the Xclio StablePower line is an option as well. SeaSonic too.
Click to expand...


Thanks!

I've also got a question regarding the combination of these 3 parts. Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 + ASUS P5K-E + Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800Mhz. I did some research in the neweggs comments section and while the Crucial Ballistix ram was praised, it was also said to be somewhat faulty in several occasions.
Also, is quad the way to go?
 
Yeah, ditch the gameXstream. OCZ (even after the acquisition of PC P&C) is still shipping crappier OEM PSUs.

And smooth move on the trigger pulling of the 8800GT 512mb, its an excellent card at a superb price point. The 512mb buffer should be able to deal with 1920X1200 no sweat, of course the 768mb buffer of the 8800GTX could do it better, but it also comes at a much greater cost and a much poorer price/performance overall.

You can compare the hard numbers on almost every graphics card ever made at GPUreview. It also has probibly the largest database of Graphics card reviews ever, so you can see if those hard numbers translate into actual hard FPS.

now as for the PSU....

We've gotta talk a little bit about SLI:

Yes, SLI is talked about as being a great option for future upgrades, but when you look at it SLI offers a performance increase of, in a good scenario, an extra 50%. If your not going to get the 2nd card in the next few months, Nvidia's next gen single card will probably outperform, and do it cheaper too.

That said, if you wait till the next gen, I'm betting you'll be able to find a 2nd 8800GTX on ebay for cheap as fewk (say ~$260). So overall SLI might not be that bad an option. Or a 2nd 8800GT For even cheaper then fewk (say ~$150).

But of course you need an SLI ready mobo! Currently Nvidia's not playing to nice with Intel since Nvidia wont license SLI to Intel's new X38 platform, I THINK Intel just decided disallow Nvidia chipsets from supporting future Intel procs, such as the QX9*** and any other penryn family procs. Weather its a technical problem or Intel's licencing is not known, but it is known definitively that currently none of Nvidia's chipsets or future chipsets (read: 780i/790i) will support anything from the Penryn family. Both companies will come out hurting from it though, as educated comp builders know, for a good gaming rig, GPU performance is paramount, CPU performance takes 2nd seat.

Add to that the fact that 680i is currently a pretty ugly platform with 4 gig issues and current quad core issues, SLI ready mobos arn't particularly tempting. Dan (our motherboard editor) gave the Asus striker a little bit of praise in his review of it, but if you ask him now (after hes had months and months of working with it) about it, he'll tell you he hates the platform and doesn't think theres a good 680i based mobo out there. I love my Evga 680i A1 board, but only because I know if something goes wrong, I got an excellent RMA service backing me up, and because I run a totally average system (dual core and 2 gigs of ram!).

If you think SLI might be for you then I suggest you get the cheaper and much much cooler Nforce 650i solution, and a PSU with a rating of at least 650W. If not, the mobo you listed (based on P35, which is superb) and a good quality 450W/500W.

650i based mobos dont suffer from the massive heat output problem 680i does, and supports most of the features. They can be found for cheap too.

When I say a rating of 650W, you gotta remember not all 650W PSUs are created equally. You cant go wrong with a 650W or greater PSU from any of the following companies: Silverstone, PC power and cooling, Corsair, Seasonic, Thermaltake (toughpower only tho, the TRs are somewhat ugly), or Enermax. New to the scene is Coolermaster and most of their PSUs have been getting good reviews. These are all power supplies of very high quality and come from well known OEMs and based on good (but expensive) components. If your looking for cheaper, still withen ATX spec psus, offerings from FSP and Antec are probibly what you should look at.

And thats everything! Rams pretty well of a no brainer considering most of the DDR2 800 are based of micron D9s. The Crucial Ballistix 1066 sticks are made off the highest quality D9s, and often manage upward of 1200MHz! If your looking for a high OC and hence good after market cooling, you cant go wrong with Thermalright (note: not Thermaltake), and basically the more copper you see and the bigger fan the better the cooling. Frosty Tech is an excellent source for information on any CPU cooler. Your case is really just personal preferance. It's true that Silverstone and Lian-li make cases that are
 
MrWizard6600 said:
yeah, ditch the gameXstream. OCZ (even after there acquisition of PC P&C) is still shipping crappier OEM PSUs.
Click to expand...
I really disagree with you. My OCZ has been running for 2 years solid, all rails and voltages stable...
Still depending on the budget, the Corsair would probably be better for the money.
Ya, DDR2 is so cheap now. DDR3 ain't worth it yet
 
MrWizard6600 said:
Yeah, ditch the gameXstream. OCZ (even after the acquisition of PC P&C) is still shipping crappier OEM PSUs.

And smooth move on the trigger pulling of the 8800GT 512mb, its an excellent card at a superb price point. The 512mb buffer should be able to deal with 1920X1200 no sweat, of course the 768mb buffer of the 8800GTX could do it better, but it also comes at a much greater cost and a much poorer price/performance overall.

You can compare the hard numbers on almost every graphics card ever made at GPUreview. It also has probibly the largest database of Graphics card reviews ever, so you can see if those hard numbers translate into actual hard FPS.

now as for the PSU....

We've gotta talk a little bit about SLI:

Yes, SLI is talked about as being a great option for future upgrades, but when you look at it SLI offers a performance increase of, in a good scenario, an extra 50%. If your not going to get the 2nd card in the next few months, Nvidia's next gen single card will probably outperform, and do it cheaper too.

That said, if you wait till the next gen, I'm betting you'll be able to find a 2nd 8800GTX on ebay for cheap as fewk (say ~$260). So overall SLI might not be that bad an option. Or a 2nd 8800GT For even cheaper then fewk (say ~$150).

But of course you need an SLI ready mobo! Currently Nvidia's not playing to nice with Intel since Nvidia wont license SLI to Intel's new X38 platform, I THINK Intel just decided disallow Nvidia chipsets from supporting future Intel procs, such as the QX9*** and any other penryn family procs. Weather its a technical problem or Intel's licencing is not known, but it is known definitively that currently none of Nvidia's chipsets or future chipsets (read: 780i/790i) will support anything from the Penryn family. Both companies will come out hurting from it though, as educated comp builders know, for a good gaming rig, GPU performance is paramount, CPU performance takes 2nd seat.

Add to that the fact that 680i is currently a pretty ugly platform with 4 gig issues and current quad core issues, SLI ready mobos arn't particularly tempting. Dan (our motherboard editor) gave the Asus striker a little bit of praise in his review of it, but if you ask him now (after hes had months and months of working with it) about it, he'll tell you he hates the platform and doesn't think theres a good 680i based mobo out there. I love my Evga 680i A1 board, but only because I know if something goes wrong, I got an excellent RMA service backing me up, and because I run a totally average system (dual core and 2 gigs of ram!).

If you think SLI might be for you then I suggest you get the cheaper and much much cooler Nforce 650i solution, and a PSU with a rating of at least 650W. If not, the mobo you listed (based on P35, which is superb) and a good quality 450W/500W.

650i based mobos dont suffer from the massive heat output problem 680i does, and supports most of the features. They can be found for cheap too.

When I say a rating of 650W, you gotta remember not all 650W PSUs are created equally. You cant go wrong with a 650W or greater PSU from any of the following companies: Silverstone, PC power and cooling, Corsair, Seasonic, Thermaltake (toughpower only tho, the TRs are somewhat ugly). These are all power supplies of very high quality and come from well known OEMs and based on good (but expensive) components. If your looking for cheaper, still withen ATX spec psus, offerings from FSP and Antec are probibly what you should look at.

And thats everything! Rams pretty well of a no brainer considering most of the DDR2 800 are based of micron D9s. The Crucial Ballistix 1066 sticks are made off the highest quality D9s, and often manage upward of 1200MHz! If your looking for a high OC and hence good after market cooling, you cant go wrong with Thermalright (note: not Thermaltake), and basically the more copper you see and the bigger fan the better the cooling. Frosty Tech is an excellent source for information on any CPU cooler.
Click to expand...

:D Your lengthy post was very helpful. Thanks!
 
AMD_RULES said:
I really disagree with you. My OCZ has been running for 2 years solid, all rails and voltages stable...
Still depending on the budget, the Corsair would probably be better for the money.
Ya, DDR2 is so cheap now. DDR3 ain't worth it yet
Click to expand...

the issue isn't the voltages its the ripple.

It's higher then it should be. Anyone who's gotten their hands on an OCZ PSU and tested it for ripple knows this. A high ripple will, eventually, kill voltage regulation everywhere.

Here's Jonny's review of the GameXStream 700W

Test6-12V2-1.jpg


a strong well designed and well built Voltage regulator will be able to correct this. But on-part voltage regulation should only be a backup, running it as anything other then can damage parts.
 
AMD_RULES said:
I really disagree with you. My OCZ has been running for 2 years solid, all rails and voltages stable...
Click to expand...

True, but thats because you're not pushing that PSU to its limits. That OCZ 700W PSU has the performance of a 500WPSU. Go above what a 500W PSU can provide and then you'll see some problems with that PSU. Yes the ripple problem only shows up at high loads or anything, something that most people won't reach with this PSU. But again, why pay for a PSU that can only perform as a 500W PSU safely when it's stated output is 700W?

Oh and here are some good PSU recommendations:
Corsair 550VX 550W PSU - $98
Corsair 520HX 520W PSU - $109
Corsair 650TX 650W PSU - $143
Corsair 620HX 620W PSU - $147
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $164
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad -$162
Silverstone SST-ST75ZF Zeus 750W Power Supply - $170

And some mobo recommendations:
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $86
Abit IP35-E Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
Abit IP35 Intel P35 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $130
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $145
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $168
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $175

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports or legacy ports, then the IP35-E is a good choice. If you need legacy ports, than the DS3L. If you need firewire and RAID, than the IP35. If you don't need firewire but want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports, than the DS3R is a good choice.

Also, even with overclocking planned, you do not need those Crucial Ballistix RAM. It's overkill for the Q6600. And cheap set of DDR2 RAM is all that you need for the Q6600. Remember that C2D systems perform best when the RAM and FSB are at a 1:1 ratio:
Q6600:
Multi x FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
9 x 266Mhz, DDR2 533 RAM = 2.4Ghz <== Stock Speeds
9 x 333Mhz, DDR2 667 RAM = 3.0Ghz <== Good OC
9 x 400Mhz, DDR2 800 RAM = 3.6Ghz <== Excellent OC

So as shown above, you don't need the Ballistix RAM. You won't notice the lower latency outside of synthetic benchmarks and nor will you need to OC the RAM. Either of these two sets will be fine for you:
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM - $50
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 RAM - $110
 
AMD_RULES said:
I really disagree with you. My OCZ has been running for 2 years solid, all rails and voltages stable...
Click to expand...

As MrWiz mentioned... Ripple... Its a widely known problem with FSP Epsilon based PSUs. However, you'll only get out of spec ripple at HIGH LOAD, and I seriously doubt your system will stress your PSU enough to invoke such bad ripple. So, don't bother goin out and changing your PSU if you already have an FSP Epsilon based unit. Anyone in the market for a new PSU, however, should look elsewhere, unless there's a great frkn deal on one thats too good to pass up (just make sure the planned system won't put a high load on the PSU). In other words, there are better choices out there for your money.
 
Danny Bui said:
True, but thats because you're not pushing that PSU to its limits. That OCZ 700W PSU has the performance of a 500WPSU. Go above what a 500W PSU can provide and then you'll see some problems with that PSU. Yes the ripple problem only shows up at high loads or anything, something that most people won't reach with this PSU. But again, why pay for a PSU that can only perform as a 500W PSU safely when it's stated output is 700W?

Oh and here are some good PSU recommendations:
Corsair 550VX 550W PSU - $98
Corsair 520HX 520W PSU - $109
Corsair 650TX 650W PSU - $143
Corsair 620HX 620W PSU - $147
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $164
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad -$162
Silverstone SST-ST75ZF Zeus 750W Power Supply - $170

And some mobo recommendations:
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $86
Abit IP35-E Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
Abit IP35 Intel P35 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $130
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $145
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $168
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $175

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports or legacy ports, then the IP35-E is a good choice. If you need legacy ports, than the DS3L. If you need firewire and RAID, than the IP35. If you don't need firewire but want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports, than the DS3R is a good choice.

Also, even with overclocking planned, you do not need those Crucial Ballistix RAM. It's overkill for the Q6600. And cheap set of DDR2 RAM is all that you need for the Q6600. Remember that C2D systems perform best when the RAM and FSB are at a 1:1 ratio:
Q6600:
Multi x FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
9 x 266Mhz, DDR2 533 RAM = 2.4Ghz <== Stock Speeds
9 x 333Mhz, DDR2 667 RAM = 3.0Ghz <== Good OC
9 x 400Mhz, DDR2 800 RAM = 3.6Ghz <== Excellent OC

So as shown above, you don't need the Ballistix RAM. You won't notice the lower latency outside of synthetic benchmarks and nor will you need to OC the RAM. Either of these two sets will be fine for you:
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM - $50
G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 RAM - $110
Click to expand...

I've decided to get the 550VX. I can get it for around $76 after rebate so I think that's going to be my PSU.

As for the RAm recommendation. Unfortunately the local store where I buy my parts, (newegg doesn't ship items to canada) only carries the following brands: corsair, crucial, kingston, ocz.
But based on your recommendation any DDR2 800 (6400) ram should be ok, right?

And... the mobo...
I am now no longer sure about my initial choice which was the P5K-E. I'm considering some of the options you presented as well.
 
Any cheap set of DDR2 800 RAM from those manufacturers will do. So it should be okay.
 
MoeB said:
I've decided to get the 550VX. I can get it for around $76 after rebate so I think that's going to be my PSU.

As for the RAm recommendation. Unfortunately the local store where I buy my parts, (newegg doesn't ship items to canada) only carries the following brands: corsair, crucial, kingston, ocz.
But based on your recommendation any DDR2 800 (6400) ram should be ok, right?
Click to expand...

ahhh a fellow canadian eh? www.ncix.com :cool:;)

also this is a lil store I worked for a few months back, little family owned job, good people, good prices: www.alinx.ca

and as to the question of what mobo, I answer your question with another question:
Will you be overclocking?
 
MrWizard6600 said:
you can get those same sticks for usually around $60 at NCIX, and the Q6600 is on for $260, so its nothing particularly special.

but yeah shop around.
Click to expand...

Since I'm not buying all my parts from NCIX I doubt I could use their bundle offer to get the Q6600 for 260. The regular price for the Q6600 at NCIX is $309.
 
MoeB said:
Since I'm not buying all my parts from NCIX I doubt I could use their bundle offer to get the Q6600 for 260. The regular price for the Q6600 at NCIX is $309.
Click to expand...

on sale:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1051

edit: lol, when I took the url I removed the stuff I thought was unnecessary ("manufacturer=intel") I eneded up at a page thats a screenshot of NCIX three or four years ago:
"get the brand new DVD RW at lightning fast 4/4/12 for only a hundred bux! Or get the new 9800XT for only $700!"
 
Well i bought the cpu and ram and the power supply. went with the crosair 550vx. my vcard should be in the mail. all i need is a mobo :)..
and i think i'll be sticking with a ASUS P5K-E.
 
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