Building a new PC: Advice Needed

[Astralogic]

Hi, I am planning a £1000 ($1500) computer build but I need your advice on what components to get. It will be a gaming machine.

In my uninformed opinion it seems to me anything above a 3770K on Z77 would be overkill correct?

I would like a 4gb GTX 770 but don't know what to get, the prices of them vary considerably.

I have no idea what case to get but I want it to fit a H100i which I will be using to overclock my CPU. Would I get a better overclock from a 4770K instead?

I 'll be getting a 64gb ssd for the system and another larger one (512GB) to install games and programs on. I'l also be getting another 3tb HD (at least) for storage.

Please offer your suggestions on what I can get for the the best bang for the buck.

Edit: I will be buying two64gb ssd drives, one for windows one for linux.


Thanks
Astralogic

 

[tiraides]

Please answer the sticky questions so we can better tailor our recommendations. In addition:

1a) Which games are you (planning on) playing? At what level of visual quality?
1b) What's the priority for this system: gaming or overclocking?
3a) Which retailer(s) are you buying parts from?
6a) How far do you want to push your CPU overclock?

Off the bat, however, you need to rethink your storage setup. The costs of the SSDs alone will eat a considerable portion of your budget, especially combined with the costs of a good OC-friendly motherboard and a 4GB GTX 770 card. How much total space, in GB, are you currently using?

 

[Eminence_Front]

I agree with the first reply.

First, realize the lifecycle of each of the components.

RAM, Drives, and CPU are going to probably last the life of the system. While the GPU will likely be something you'll be swapping out at some point.

Go with an SSD boot and 3 x 2TB SATA drives in Raid-5 for your data_set. That buys you a couple logical drives about 4TB total. You really will want the resiliency that comes with RAID, and with a 3 drive R5 you get redundancy plus a decent amount of performance, vs. Raid -1.

If you're not keen on having a haswell i7, You can get a i5 at MicroCenter for $159 (http://www.microcenter.com/product/413255/Intel_Core_i5-4570_32GHz_Boxed_Processor)
right now, and with a Z87 board, you're in a total of $300 on the Chip + MoBo.


3 x Sata 2TB = $375
i5 + Z87 = $300
128GB SSD Boot $150
8GB of g.SKill 1600mhz $100
_____________________
$925.00

That's $575 left for Cooling, Case, and GPU (and I presume, you'll pay for your OS like a good boy.)


Let's say you splurge on a case and P/S, and a Corsair H100 W/C setup (just got demonstration purposes.)

$200 case + H100


You're left with about 375.00 for a GPU







Anyway, my point is that you back into your GPU choice, rather than lead with it, since it will have the shortest lifecycle of the rest, and you really wanna focus on a stable base platform and build around it.


Just my thoughts. I have a Phenom X4 965 system that's been going strong for almost 5 years now. I have head multiple GPUs, and even changed my RAID Setup but I'd never trade a higher Windows Experience score, for Raid-5, and I'd never ever give up aesthetics, for a few more FPS.



HTH,

s1

 

[Astralogic]

Please answer the sticky questions so we can better tailor our recommendations. In addition:

1a) Which games are you (planning on) playing? At what level of visual quality?
1b) What's the priority for this system: gaming or overclocking?
3a) Which retailer(s) are you buying parts from?
6a) How far do you want to push your CPU overclock?

Off the bat, however, you need to rethink your storage setup. The costs of the SSDs alone will eat a considerable portion of your budget, especially combined with the costs of a good OC-friendly motherboard and a 4GB GTX 770 card. How much total space, in GB, are you currently using?

1a) I play a lot of games, especially the visually good ones like Metro Last Light. I want play at 1080p, on max quality, with at least 60fps.

1b) My priority is overclocking since the priority for my current system was gaming.

3a) Amazon.co.uk, ebuyer.com, dabs.com. Maybe novatech but usually don't find a good price there, whichever of those retailers gives me the cheapest price.

6a) As far as a H100i can take it. I say a H100i unless there is something better for the same price.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
I don't need SLI, I would like at least 6 sata ports, the faster the better I guess. I don't really know much about motherboard features.

I don't really consider the price of the OS to be a part of building a new computer so I don't include that in the budget.

I am basically looking for an overclockable version of my current system (better if parts are priced the same). I have a 3770 on a H66 (I think that's what its called) board, the non-overclockable kind. So a 3770K on a Z77 board seems the way to go. Is there any reason to get a 4770K over the 3770K? I hear performance wise they are very similar?

I think I've covered all the questions in the thread you linked.

Edit: I will be transferring only my sound card from my old system.

 

[tiraides]

You have a Core i7-3770 already? You don't need to overclock; the i7-3770 is more than good enough, even at its stock speeds.

Why do you believe that you have to overclock to obtain better results? The video card has a greater impact on game performance than any overclocked processor.

 

[Dangman]

Even if you did overclock, the increased performance from that overclock will not justify the costs of a new mobo and CPU. So as Tiraides said, why build a new PC when your current CPU is fine?

 

[Astralogic]

My current system is awesome, never had a problem with it. But I'm giving it to my brother because I can't stand seeing him suffer with that piece of crap PC he's struggling with now.

OK, so the cost of overclocking is not justified. Let's not OC then. Are there better CPU's that would be a good upgrade without OCing?

You have a Core i7-3770 already? You don't need to overclock; the i7-3770 is more than good enough, even at its stock speeds.

Why do you believe that you have to overclock to obtain better results? The video card has a greater impact on game performance than any overclocked processor.

Well, I need to buy a new system and if I don't get something BETTER well it's not much of an upgrade is it? I have more money to spend on this system then I did on my 3770 system so why not make it a better more future proof system?

 

[tiraides]

You're not future-proofing anything. Newer, better parts arrive all the time. What you should try to do is buy a core setup that you don't need to replace for at least a couple of years.

All you really need to improve your current system (regardless of whether you give it to your brother or keep it yourself) is a modern video card (e.g. HD 7970 or GTX 770) and a 120GB-to-256GB SSD for the primary drive.

For your new system, however, I recommend something along the lines of:

Intel Core i7-4570
MSI B85-G41 PC MATE (or an "equivalent" B85 or H87-based board)
2x8GB (or, if you're exceeding your budget a bit, 1x8GB) Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3 1600 RAM
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB or Crucial M500 240GB SSD (for your Windows OS and games, though you could drop down to 120GB if budget is a concern)
Samsung 840 EVO 120GB or Crucial M500 120GB SSD (for your Linux OS)
GTX 770 4GB, HD 7970 3GB, or R9 280X 3GB video card
Seagate Barracuda 2TB or 3TB HDD (depending on your budget)
Any cheap SATA DVD burner
A good PSU of at least 550 watts (and 40A on the 12V rail)
Any good ATX mid-tower case

You lose the ability to overclock, but you can easily afford everything else that you wanted. I intentionally upgraded the capacity of both SSDs as you gain better performance from them. But to fit the SSDs within your budget, I chose two SSDs instead of three because that 500GB-to-512GB SSD would have eaten a huge hole in your budget.

 

[Astralogic]

I'm thinking of getting this. I bet that's not a good buy though is it?

I definitely want an i7 at least.

 

[Dangman]

My current system is awesome, never had a problem with it. But I'm giving it to my brother because I can't stand seeing him suffer with that piece of crap PC he's struggling with now.

OK, so the cost of overclocking is not justified. Let's not OC then. Are there better CPU's that would be a good upgrade without OCing?

Incorrect. The cost of upgrading your current system as is just to overclock is not justified as I said. However, if you're starting with an entirely new build off the bat, are 100% guranteed to overclock, AND that old system will actually be given away to your brother, then the costs of an overclock capable setup is justified. Get what I'm saying?

Well, I need to buy a new system and if I don't get something BETTER well it's not much of an upgrade is it? I have more money to spend on this system then I did on my 3770 system so why not make it a better more future proof system?

Well, if you're looking for an upgrade CPU wise, even with the overclocking involved, that won't justify the costs alone. The rest of the system has to be better in order to justify building a whole new PC.

I'm thinking of getting this. I bet that's not a good buy though is it?

No. The RAM isn't a good choice.

I definitely want an i7 at least.

Well, if you're going to overclock, go with the Core i7 4770K. Otherwise, the regular 4770 will be fine. Overclock capable motherboard wise, go for the Asus Z87-A motherboard at the least.

Also, it is a very bad idea to get any 64GB SSD as those tend to be slower than their larger 120 to 128GB SSD counterparts. Not to mention that the good 64GB SSDs tends to cost not much less than their larger counterparts. In other words, unless you want a crappy 64GB SSD, your best bet for bang for the back value is a 120 to 128GB SSD.

 

[tiraides]

I definitely want an i7 at least.

Well, if you're going to overclock, go with the Core i7 4770K. Otherwise, the regular 4770 will be fine. Overclock capable motherboard wise, go for the Asus Z87-A motherboard at the least.

I wouldn't recommend any Core i7 processor. You don't need it for games -- in fact, for some games, using Hyper-Threading (the key difference between Core i7 and Core i5 quad-cores) can cause performance degradation.

If you really want to overclock, go with the i5-4670K. It's only 200MHz slower than the i7-4770K at stock speeds, which you can easily make up using a good third-party CPU cooler.

Also, it is a very bad idea to get any 64GB SSD as those tend to be slower than their larger 120 to 128GB SSD counterparts. Not to mention that the good 64GB SSDs tends to cost not much less than their larger counterparts. In other words, unless you want a crappy 64GB SSD, your best bet for bang for the back value is a 120 to 128GB SSD.

Performance-wise, however, the larger capacity SSDs perform better (read: run faster) than their lower capacity siblings.

"So why are you telling me NOT to get a 512GB SSD?" you ask....

Answer my questions: How much space are you using in your Windows install? How much of that is used by the OS and your key (non-gaming) programs? How much space do your games take up? Are you willing to increase your budget to get what you want?

 

[Astralogic]

Is it a Z87 or X87 motherboard I need? all these letters and numbers just don't stick :/ I want the i7 no matter what, I did a stupid and failed to mentioned that this system will also be used for periodic rendering.

Now, motherboards are the most mysterious part of this whole equation for me. I've decided NOT to OC so I guess that means I need a H board?

My windows install currently uses 34GB and my programs/games etc are using 201GB.

I now think it's better to just get one single SSD drive, and whatever SATA storage I need.

 

[tiraides]

I want the i7 no matter what, I did a stupid and failed to mentioned that this system will also be used for periodic rendering.

What do you mean by rendering? Which programs are you using? How often do you use them?

The Core i7-4770 isn't a miracle salve compared to the non-HT-supporting i5-4670. If you really want a clear performance boost when rendering, you're better off with the more expensive hex-core i7-4930K and Intel X79/Socket 2011 platform.

Now, motherboards are the most mysterious part of this whole equation for me. I've decided NOT to OC so I guess that means I need a H board?

If you're not overclocking, then all you really need is a B85 or an H87-based board.

Do you need anything more than just USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s? If not, then a cheap B85 board is likely all that you need.

My windows install currently uses 34GB and my programs/games etc are using 201GB.

I now think it's better to just get one single SSD drive, and whatever SATA storage I need.

What you need then is a 240GB-to-512GB SSD depending on how many of those programs and games you consider vital (read: you use everyday). To keep costs from going out of control, I recommend either Samsung 840 EVO or Crucial M500.

The second SSD for your Linux installation needs to be at least 120GB, not 60GB. You get better value and faster performance with a 120/128GB SSD versus a 60GB/64GB SSD.

As for the hard drive, I recommend a 2TB drive over a 3TB drive due to cost. Simply put, a 2TB drive can be on sale for as low as $80 but I haven't seen a 3TB drive cost less than $100. If you go for the i7-4770 and a 500GB SSD, you'll have to spend less money on other areas.

Before I forget (yet again), which retailer(s) are you buying from?

 

[Astralogic]

Amazon.co.uk, ebuyer.com, dabs.com.

Can I save money by buying one single SSD for windows, linux, and programs instead of two?

If I have 16gb of dual channel ram, can I add another two sticks of dual channel ram to it to get 32gb or must I sell my dual chan memory and buy four sticks of quad channel?

I wanted to use 16gb of ram (2x8) with the option of later adding another 16gb. If that's possible I would like 2x8gb 1600mhz ram. If I can only use quad channel ram in all four slots I will take 4x4gb (but still 1600mhz).

Could you recommend a board to me? A specific board. I know you said I only need a cheap one but I don't want it to be CHEAP cheap, if you know what I mean, I want a reliable board that will last.

Rendering programs would be sony vegas and blender (gimp too if that counts). Right now it's not all that often they get used but they will be being used quite often soon.

I think usb3 and sata 6gb is all I need, could you tell me a few other mobo features just so I can make sure nothing is slipping my mind?

 

[tiraides]

I can't spend any time today looking for parts.

Please tell us how much it would cost for you to get the following (also, please break down the individual prices and add links):

Intel Core i5-4670K quad-core processor
MSI Z87-G41 PC MATE ATX motherboard
Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDD
GeForce GTX 770 4GB video card (any manufacturer)
The cheapest SATA DVD burner you could find (any manufacturer)
Corsair CX600 600 watt power supply
Corsair 200R ATX mid-tower case

The above build doesn't have the specific parts I have in mind for you. But I'm a little short on time this week, so I want a "baseline" (for lack of a better term) to use on further recommendations.

Also, for further consideration: Blender Guru's Ultimate Guide to Buying a Computer for Blender

 

[Astralogic]

Intel Core i5-4670K quad-core processor, cheapest price is £174.50, amazon, dabs, ebuyer.

MSI Z87-G41 PC MATE, best price is £78.63, not available on ebuyer. Amazon, dabs.

Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x8GB DDR3 1600, I couln't find them on the sites i'm searching so I searched for them on crucial.com and they are £127.

Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD. Cheapest I found is £246.49 on amazon. Ebuyer, dabs.

Seagate Barracuda 2TB. Cheapest is £64 on dabs. Amazon, ebuyer.

GTX 770: Cheapest is £311 from ebuyer. Amazon, dabs.

DVD burner: £13.36 from dabs. Amazon, ebuyer.

PSU: £52.67 from ebuyer. Amazon, dabs.

The case is the same price (£47.98) on both amazon and dabs. Ebuyer doesn't stock it.

Could you answer my question about ram? Will two sets of duel channel memory work together in four slots? If it doesn't I would prefer to get 4x4gb ram sticks to save on money.

 

[tiraides]

Could you answer my question about ram? Will two sets of duel channel memory work together in four slots? If it doesn't I would prefer to get 4x4gb ram sticks to save on money.

Yes, two dual-channel kits will work as well as a quad-channel kit. You could even use four sticks that were sold individually.

But if you want to limit yourself to 16GB of RAM, I recommend buying a 2x8GB kit for future expansion. Plus, if one stick in your quad-channel kit goes bad, you'd have to return the entire set for RMA.

 

[tiraides]

I have a few follow-up questions:

How badly do you want to overclock your processor? How far?

If you can only keep one thing, would you rather have the larger SSD capacity (500GB versus, say, 250GB) or the GTX 770 4GB (compared to the HD 7970 3GB)?

What's the ratio of your gaming compared to your rendering and everything else?

Do you have an external HDD or some other backup system on hand?

 

[Astralogic]

I have a few follow-up questions:

How badly do you want to overclock your processor? How far?

If it won't fit into my budget I would be happy to forget overclocking all together. If it did fit I would either use a H80i or a H100i and take it as far as that could take me.

If you can only keep one thing, would you rather have the larger SSD capacity (500GB versus, say, 250GB) or the GTX 770 4GB (compared to the HD 7970 3GB)?

I couldn't make that choice, I would extend my budget, OCing I can drop from the build, the 500gb SSD and the 770, no way But if I was absolutely forced to (at gun point!), I would sacrifice the 770 for the 7970.

What's the ratio of your gaming compared to your rendering and everything else?

I game a lot, but I also record and stream my gaming, and if I record it I must then render it with sony vegas. So that is very common, daily in fact. The Blender rendering is not so common right now, but will increase a lot (eventually will be daily). I really think because of this an i7 is the way to go.

Do you have an external HDD or some other backup system on hand?

I don't have any external backup system. I have a 1TB internal HD that is hot plugged onto the top of my case so is that internal or external? I can easily handle the transfer of whatever files to the new system.

 

[tiraides]

You'll need a larger budget to fit in a Core i7 processor, a 500GB (or 512GB) SSD, and the 4GB GTX 770.

How much can you handle?

 

[Astralogic]

You'll need a larger budget to fit in a Core i7 processor, a 500GB (or 512GB) SSD, and the 4GB GTX 770.

How much can you handle?

Whatever it takes really. I'd be willing to go to £1500/$2000.

 

[jam3s121]

Honestly just go with a gtx 780 if you wnt more vram. I have a gtx 770 2gb and it runs 4x msa bf4 on ultra. The 4gb cards have more vram.. but the memory bus is not as wide/slower so it doesn't even utilize all the ram it could properly. Just note when looking at vram usage benchmarks that the more ram/vram available the more the system uses. If you have less it would allocate less and still run fine.

 

[Dangman]

Whatever it takes really. I'd be willing to go to £1500/$2000.

All right then, go for the Core i7 4770 (or the Core i7 4770K if you can afford it and really want to overclock), the Samsung 840 Pro 512GB (or Evo 500GB if you really need to save money), and the card of your choice.

 

[Astralogic]

I've decided to get a K CPU, the 4770K. I will take the overclock as far as a Corsair H101 can take it.

Could you recommend a good case that would fit the H100 in the top?

 

[Dangman]

Corsair 500R, Corsair 600TM, and Corsair 650D

 

[Astralogic]

OK, so I'll go with the list already posted but I'll change the 4670K to a 4770K.

Thanks