Building a mATX system this summer

[aRHpositive]

Hello everyone. Newcomer here. I'm going to build a new computer this summer and I'm looking for your advice.

1. What will you be doing with this PC?
The PC will be used mainly for gaming. I may also want to try overclocking at some point, but not to an extreme degree.

2. What's your budget?
Tax excluded, between $900-$1000. Cost is definitely an important factor when buying new parts.

3. Where do you live?
I live in Turkey. Computer parts are expensive here. They usually come with a minimum of %18 tax. Looking at links from Newegg and Amazon, it's a safe bet to say that a piece worth $250 can't be obtained for less than $300.

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget?
CPU, Case, PSU, MB, RAM, GPU and a monitor. (HDD is not needed. Already have an 120GB SSD which will be sufficient for now.)

5. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
Only a Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD, which is bought new.

6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.
Sata3 - Required
USB3 - Required
SLI - Required (this is the most important part)
An open PCI slot for a WiFi card - Wanted, but pretty hard to do with a SLI mATX config. (would need a 5th expansion slot and a card SLI'ed through the first and fourth slots)

7. What resolution output do you need?
1080p is what I need.

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space?
Nope. But I want a small enough case to fit my needs, and not go overkill. I think mATX is the right form factor.

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring?
This will be my first custom rig. I don't want to push the limits of the case I'm getting. But I can do small modifications here and there.

10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem?
Not important as long as I can concentrate on studying or working while it's open.

11. How mobile does this system need to be?
It can be carried between houses or even cities a few times a year. That's all.

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
I have a Windows 7 license from MSDN Academy which I didn't use on any computer yet.

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
In the summer of '12.

Here's what I plan:
Intel i5 3570K or i5 3330 (Ivy bridge, depends on price. Might even go as low as i3.)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 or 650TI (Depends on price. Might go lower or higher.)
750W 80+ Power Supply (Overkill because of potential SLI upgrade)
4 or 8 gigs of RAM
21.5", 1920x1080, HDMI or DVI supported monitor.

Puzzling part 1: Motherboard
An mATX Ivy Bridge build with SLI support. I looked at a few announced motherboards.

Gigabyte models GA-Z77MX-D3H and G1 Sniper M3 both have SLI support from first and fourth PCI slots. However, it's clear that I block a lot of the ports including USB 3.0 headers. Can you look at these pictures and clarify what else I'm missing out on the motherboard if I decide to SLI and close entrance to all of those slots?

Asus P8Z77-M PRO is my favourite at the moment, but it has SLI in first and third slots so this'll mean there's no place left to put a Wi-Fi card. (I assume all these cards do not have integrated Wi-Fi. Though if they do, please say so because I have little information on motherboards. Anyway, Wi-Fi is not a critical part for my system, I prefer building a mATX PC over Wi-Fi support.)

MSI announced Z77MA-G45 but unfortunately it has no SLI support.

Puzzling part 2: Case
In Turkey, it's hard to find variety in terms of mATX cases. I can't find Lian Li anywhere, Silverstone is too expensive, so I decided to go with the Inwin Dragon Slayer. It's a five slot case, but I have two questions about it. If you can suggest another mATX case, go ahead. USB 3.0 in the front is a good plus. Also, enough space for CPU cooler and graphics cards are important.

1. Does the case come with a cable that connects the front USB 3.0 slot to internal headers? (I know it comes with the normal USB cable which has to go all the way to the back of the case to connect through back slots.) If it does not, can I get this cable from anywhere on its own?

2. If I place a long, double size VGA card on the "fourth slot" (meaning I'll cover 4th and 5th back slots of the case) of my motherboard for SLI, will there be enough space between the PSU and the card for all the connections that are needed to be made between the PSU and the system?

Upgrade path
After I build the system above, here's the upgrade path I'll use:
1. Buy additional RAM if only bought 4 gigs before.
2. Buy a HDD.
3. Get a second VGA card of the same brand and model for SLI.
4. If bought the K-series processor, buy a bigger CPU cooler and overclock.

That's all. A pretty long post. Waiting for your answers and your suggestions. If you want me to clarify something or spotted an amateur mistake in my build, just tell me.

edit 1 : thinking about it, I can just buy a usb wi-fi adapter to reach wi-fi from my computer, I guess. This would eliminate the need for Gigabyte boards.

 

[Vyedmic]

Do consider Antec mini P180 http://www.silentpcreview.com/article810-page1.html Great mATX case.

 

[wtourist]

I would go Sandy Bridge for a $1000 gaming build, basically the GPU will be the most important choice.
I would suggest the BitFenix survivor if available and priced reasonably with an ATX motherboard.

 

[sidsaccount]

Do consider Antec mini P180 http://www.silentpcreview.com/article810-page1.html Great mATX case.

That case is nice, but hardly is "mini" at all.


Instead, use an SG03 like me.

Here is a build you may find acceptable.

Silverstone SG03 (very compact and portable)
I5 2500k /w H50/H60 (or whatever all-in-one cooling solution you can find)
Maximus Gene IV
Any ram that is compatible with an overclocked i5 2500k
Corsair AX750 or Seasonic X-650
Radeon 6850/6870 (short and good bang for buck)
Any HDD you want

*Note, the SG03 can take video cards up to 11.5 inches in length, but you DO have to remove the front fan.

With the front fan installed, you can fit up to 10.5 inches (GTX 580, GTX 570).

My setup looks like this






|fan| |H50| |fan|
| Radeon 6870 | |fan|
_____________________________

 

[aRHpositive]

I have to add this one last thing: GPU will be Nvidia for certain. This is because I want to get into CUDA.

Can't find SG03 anywhere in Turkey, my options in the SG range are limited with SG02. (5 and 7 is also available, but they're mini-ITX.)

Bitfenix and Antec mini p180 are also not available. As I said, really low variety of cases.

I'll consider Sandy Bridge too if I find them cheaper when Ivy Bridge gets released.

 

[Skott]

The InWin Dragon Slayer case and the Antec Mini 180 both have better case cooling than the SG03. The SG03 case is a great case but it has one major flaw. No rear exhaust and it can be a problem. Consider doing a fan mod to the upper back side if choosing a SG03. If I were to buy one again I would do that. I went from a 8800GT to a GTX460 in mine and it raised the inner case temps quite a bit.

 

[Skott]

I have to add this one last thing: GPU will be Nvidia for certain. This is because I want to get into CUDA.

Can't find SG03 anywhere in Turkey, my options in the SG range are limited with SG02. (5 and 7 is also available, but they're mini-ITX.)

Bitfenix and Antec mini p180 are also not available. As I said, really low variety of cases.

I'll consider Sandy Bridge too if I find them cheaper when Ivy Bridge gets released.

Your best bet may be the Dragon Slayer case. Another good matx case that will hold dual graphics cards is the NZXT Vulcan. Bigger than the SG03 but smaller than the Mini 180.

http://www.overclock.net/t/774308/the-official-nzxt-vulcan-owners-club

 

[peezda]

Mate I think you're going to have a hard time finding all of that, including the monitor and all, with a budget of $1000 (and with a +20% tax on everything), then stuffing SLI Nvidia cards (known to run hot) into a uATX case in a hot country.. Just seems to me like you'll have to compromise in more than one area.

That being said, I'd also recommend the Gene-Z, the Z77 versions got a PCIe slot separate from where the cards are, maybe you could find a wifi card to fit in there.

 

[aRHpositive]

Mate I think you're going to have a hard time finding all of that, including the monitor and all, with a budget of $1000 (and with a +20% tax on everything), then stuffing SLI Nvidia cards (known to run hot) into a uATX case in a hot country.. Just seems to me like you'll have to compromise in more than one area.

That being said, I'd also recommend the Gene-Z, the Z77 versions got a PCIe slot separate from where the cards are, maybe you could find a wifi card to fit in there.

Thanks for your comments. I'll try to keep the system within the $1000 mark. I do not plan to buy any items without significant discounts. There is a tech market chain here that does a %25 discount monthly or so. I plan to buy most of the items within discount days.

On your SLI comment, you might be right but I believe with appropiate cooling I'll be okay with a SLI rig. I won't buy a second GPU until I feel my computer cooling can handle it.

Gene series are a bit off budget right now for me. I can use the extra PCIe slot, but if I have to compromise something, that is the first thing to leave alone.

Does anyone know the answer for the question below?

1. Does the case come with a cable that connects the front USB 3.0 slot to internal headers? (I know it comes with the normal USB cable which has to go all the way to the back of the case to connect through back slots.) If it does not, can I get this cable from anywhere on its own?

 

[Igor99]

A few suggestions:

* You should definitely get 8GB RAM. It doesn't take much running in Windows 7 to get your memory use above 4GB, and the system won't perform well at all once you reach that point if you only have 4GB physical RAM.

* You don't need the 3300K processor. Go for the 4 core/4 thread model that's around $200. Currently the 2500K - in the Summer you might consider getting the similar Ivy Bridge model, but the SB 2500K will be a great performing chip for years to come. It is absurdly fast, and can easily overclock if you do need more power.

* I wouldn't try to run SLI in an mATX case. Because you only have two double slots available and they are right next to each other it is very hard to keep the second card cooled. And you don't really need it these days in the price range you are talking about just plan on running a good single card.

* I would suggest you consider going mini ITX in the SG05 case. My gaming system is an mATX, but I just built an SG05 for someone else with an I3-2120 in it, and it boots in the same surprisingly fast way as my 2500k system. The case and included power supply together cost only a little more than $100, and if you put a 2500k CPU and 560 GPU in there you'll be running anything you want with good performance at a really great price. If you were building today you would be limited by the current generation of mini ITX motherboards, but there are a bunch of Z77 mini ITX boards announced that should be available by the Summer.

* You are specing a 750W power supply so you can SLI, but again, I think you are going to find that mATX is not suitable for SLI. If you don't go with the SG05 as I suggest above make sure you get a high quality power supply, but you don't need 750W. Seasonic or the like is worth a little extra money.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[aRHpositive]

A few suggestions:
* You don't need the 3300K processor. Go for the 4 core/4 thread model that's around $200. Currently the 2500K - in the Summer you might consider getting the similar Ivy Bridge model, but the SB 2500K will be a great performing chip for years to come. It is absurdly fast, and can easily overclock if you do need more power.

* I wouldn't try to run SLI in an mATX case. Because you only have two double slots available and they are right next to each other it is very hard to keep the second card cooled. And you don't really need it these days in the price range you are talking about just plan on running a good single card.

* I would suggest you consider going mini ITX in the SG05 case. The case and included power supply together cost only a little more than $100, and if you put a 2500k CPU and 560 GPU in there you'll be running anything you want with good performance at a really great price. If you were building today you would be limited by the current generation of mini ITX motherboards, but there are a bunch of Z77 mini ITX boards announced that should be available by the Summer.

* You are specing a 750W power supply so you can SLI, but again, I think you are going to find that mATX is not suitable for SLI.

Thanks for your suggestions.

3750K is the Ivy equivalent to 2500K. If I find it to be too expensive, I'll skip 3300 and go straight to 2500K, then.

You too, are saying no to a SLI rig in a mATX case. I might consider my options again, but certainly more feedback from different people can help. With the Dragon Slayer and a Gigabyte Z77 card, I can SLI in first and fourth slots and I might be able to find better coolers for both cards if needed. (Though I'm already thinking about Asus or MSI for GPUs and they have good cooling.) Can't say if it'll cool them of course, I'm pretty inexperienced on this topic.

Mini-ITX form factor cards are a rare find in Turkey. For a simple example, not even a single Mini-ITX Z68 card is imported right now. They can't be found easily. While I expect this to change with Z77, I think all we'll get is the Asus card and it might be a little expensive. Not to mention, if I get a Mini-ITX case and motherboard, my options for upgrading the system does not go too far. (Though you're clearly implying that this machine will keep me good to go for years to come.)

750W will definitely be way too much for a single GPU build. If I decide to ditch the SLI idea, I'll definitely lower the PSU.

EDIT 1 - Did a little research, and doing SLI in Gigabyte boards might not let me hook up front panel audio jacks on the case, and maybe even the power button. That idea is ditched immediately. Right now, I'm planning on buying Dragon Slayer, getting an Asus MoBo, getting a single GPU, and in the future, if I ever want to do SLI, add water cooling on the GPUs or add more fans to the side of the case. (though those fans might not be enough)

 

[Dangman]

Does anyone know the answer for the question below?

1. Does the case come with a cable that connects the front USB 3.0 slot to internal headers? (I know it comes with the normal USB cable which has to go all the way to the back of the case to connect through back slots.) If it does not, can I get this cable from anywhere on its own?

No the case does not. There are adapters though:
http://www.bitfenix.com/global/en/products/accessories/internal-usb3-adapter
http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/produc...x=575&cl_index=2&sc_index=50&ss_index=131&g=f

As for SLI, while in general Nvidia cards do run a bit hotter sometimes than their AMD counterparts, SLI is still doable if A) the case has specific cooling for the GPUs or B) you're in an air-conditioned environment. The InWin Dragon Slayer has room for two fans directly over the GPU area. So that should make a SLI setup feasible without going to water cooling. And there's always the possibility of the new GTX 6xx series cards outputting less heat than previous Nvidia GPUs.

With that said, I'd also recommend a single GPU as well unless you absolutely need more performance that a single GPU cannot provide for a reasonable price.

 

[Igor99]

Thanks for your suggestions.

You too, are saying no to a SLI rig in a mATX

Just to be clear, the problem with SLI in an mATX case is that there are four slots close together, all the high end cards use two slots, and they have side fans. So when you put in two cards, one is going to have its fan right against the other card. Can you force enough air in there that it will sort of work? Yes, but it's going to run hot and instead of working with the way air wants to flow, you're always going to be fighting it.

On the other hand, as you noted, if you're willing to water cool it should work fine. I've wondered if it would just be enough to water cool the one card that has its fan blocked...

 

[aRHpositive]

Thanks a lot, all of you. It's clear that right now I'm buying a Dragon Slayer with a MoBo that supports SLI. If I ever come to a point that my GPU just isn't enough for me, I'll decide between getting a new GPU or getting the same GPU and additional cooling measures for a SLI setup.

You've all been helpful and I appreciate it a lot.

If anyone still can answer whether or not I can put a SLI rig in one of those new Z77 Gigabyte MBs and still manage to plug in cables to the front panel ports such as the F_AUDIO and the port that has power, reset buttons and such, it'll be helpful. I don't think Gigabyte cards will perform better than Asus but they'll be cheaper nonetheless.

edit - just noticed i can get Silverstone PS07 too. any comments on "dragon slayer vs ps07"?

 

[Skott]

Asus will probably make a Gene version of the new Z77/79 but their Gene versions tend to come out much later than their non Gene mobos so it could be late summer or early fall before you see it. Asus Gene mobos will definitely allow for dual GPU set ups. They always have before anyway. They are also their most expensive mATX mobos so be ready to pay $200 or more. If you wanted it now you could just get their current Gene Z68 matx mobo and run a 2500k on it or flash the bios and slap a IB cpu in it once they come out.

As far as Dragon Slayer vs PS07 goes it comes down to personal preference. The PS07 is a good looking case and has lots of good functions, good cooling, and sleek design. Is it enough to run dual GPUs though? If you were to add four extra 120mm fans on the side of the Dragon Slayer then I would say it would definitely win in the, 'which case has the better cooling ability' argument. It also is set up for water cooling. Both cases have pros and cons so its a tough choice and will come down to personal preference.