Building a cheaper PC

P

Perrupa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
442
Hey there guysI

Haven't been on here for a while so I think I've gotten oft. I'm looking to upgrade my old rig cause it seems to be on its last legs. But being that it's an old Athlon XP I'm thinking that a completely new build (w/ some carryover) would cost just as much and be a better idea anyways.

I use my computer mostly for browsing, chatting, photo editing (photoshop), movies and music. That the computer is quiet is pretty important for me as well.

The parts I can probably carry over are my Chenming full tower, DVD+RW and DVD drives as well as my HDDs. I also have keyboard, mouse and dual 22"s so I've got my peripherals under control too. My friend also gave me 2GB (4x512) ECC DDR2 666MHz RAM. being ECC it's obviously server RAM but could I use this in the new build to save cash or is there no point?

I'd like to keep the price generally as low as possible but I'm not really sure how much we're looking at here yet. btw I'm in Canada and i'll likely be buying most of my stuff from www.canadacomputers.com.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
 
Though I'd like to avoid spending too much money I tend to favor spending a bit more where it's worth it.

I have no problems overclocking, though noise is a concern if extra cooling would be needed by the C2Ds.

My old system was a Athlon XP 2500+, Asus A7n8X, 1GB DDR400, AGP Radeon9500 pro, a bunch of SATA HDDs all powered by an Enermax EG465P-VE 431w PSU. This is why I figure upgrading wouldn't make much sense. But would my old PSU power a dual core CPU?

Video card would need 2 DVI or DVI + VGA outs to power my dual monitors
 
No you can't use that RAM. Sell it to offset the cost of new RAM.

Please give a general budget. It's difficult to build without one, even if "as cheap as it can be!" is the goal. What do you want to spend on the machine, roughly?
 
well, lets say $500 CAD but I don't mind spending a bit extra if you think it would be worth it.
 
Here's a good basic build. Remember that pretty much all C2D capable motherboards have only one IDE channel so if you have IDE hard drives you'll need to buy a controller card or replace them.

Abit IP35-E -- $120 with a $40 MIR, $80 after MIR
Intel Core 2 Duo E2140 -- $76 (small cache but test show this isn't much of a detriment. OC'd it stands up there with /much/ more expensive chips.)
Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B. HSF -- $36 (should get you to 3+ Ghz easily)
Geil 2GB CAS 4 DDR2-800 -- $85 with a $30 MIR, $55 after MIR -OR- Adata 2GB CAS 5 DDR2-800 -- $73 with a $15 MIR, $58 after rebate
Gigabyte Radeon HD 2600 Pro (passively cooled, fanless, dual DVI, good HD decoding, but by no means a gaming card. If you want to game, you will need much more.) -- $89
PCI IDE controller card (if you have SATA hard drives you don't need this) -- ~$15-20

This system is not very demanding power-wise, even OC'd, so your Enermax PSU should be just fine. If you buy a faster video card in particular you might want a new one, though. An Xclio Goodpower or Enhance 500 watt unit at $50-60 would be fine. These are about the only 'budget' PSUs I would recommend. If you can spend more here the Corsair 520HX is nice because it has much higher efficiency than the Xclio unit.

Total:
$406 before rebates and shipping, add $20 if you need IDE card
$336 after rebates, before shipping.

Prices are in USD but I think you can easily build that for under $500 CAD

The E2140 has an 8x multiplier. You want to run RAM linked and synced with Intel CPUs as running it faster has no performance benefit. That means that at 400Mhz real FSB your DDR2-800 is running at its native speed (400x2) and the CPU is running at 400x8, or 3.2Ghz. The Scythe Ninja Plus Rev. B /should/ get you that high without issue or too much noise. It's very much luck of the draw with chips this far down on the low end though, and you may find it tops out around 2.8Ghz, but newer chips have proven to OC better, so 3.2Ghz isn't out of reach. Even un-OC'd you should notice a big improvement over your previous system.
 
Canadian? Check out those same parts s-c recommended at canadacomputers.com and ncix.com.
 
Although I'm not Canadian, I did some research. Most components are from directcanada.com (are they reputable)?, unless stated otherwise, as they seemed to have better prices.

$74 - Intel Pentium Dual Core E2140 Dual Core Processor LGA775 1.6GHZ 800FSB 1MB Retail
$22 - Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro LGA775 2500RPM 45CFM
$95 - Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L ATX LGA775 P35 1333FSB 1PCI-E16 3PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN Motherboard
$36 - Corsair XMS2 PC2-5400 1GB 1X1GB DDR2-675 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN DIMM Memory (less $15MIR) (from ncix.com)
$36 - Corsair XMS2 PC2-5400 1GB 1X1GB DDR2-675 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN DIMM Memory (less $15MIR) (from ncix.com)
$70 - Corsair CMPSU-450VX 450W Atx 12V 33A 24PIN Atx Power Supply Active Pfc 120MM Fan (less $15MIR) (not necessary)
Video card missing


My comments:
Processor: Best bang for the buck, when overclocked of course.
HSF: Good and cheap. Won't be necessary as 3GHz is doable on the stock cooler, so an aftermarket hsf won't give you much more overclocking headroom.
Mobo: You don't have many choices. The second cheapest board is Abit IP35-E, which costs $35 more.
RAM:. I have no idea how I arrived at that price, especially since it should cost 70-15MIR per gig. Edit: Here is where I found it.
Video card: Not sure about the graphics card.
PSU: Thought it would be nice to include, but most probably you won't need it.

This build is nowhere near perfect, and you should find better prices if you do enough research. I'm also not sure about the compatibility of the parts...

If you haven't noticed already, I'm officially imitating enginurd's style as I took his permission before :D.
 
Hehe... what a biter... j/k. I like that format 'cuz its easy to read. I'd come up with a list, but I'm kinda busy/lazy right now, lol. Nice lists so far, though.

However, since you don't game with this computer, you could get a cheaper vidcard ($100 price range) for HD video decoding and spend more on other things, like the CPU.
 
I was including this card in my build, but I'm not sure whether it suits his needs or not.
$55 - Sapphire ATI RADEON HD 2400PRO 256MB DDR2 Dual Display PCI-Express Graphics Card (from canadacomputers.com)

I am aware that my build is well below his $500 budget, but is "kept generally as low as possible".
 
The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro is underwhelming at best and noisy as hell at higher speeds. Considering $12 more gets you a far better HSF in the Scythe Ninja Plus, there is /no/ reason to ever buy the ACF 7 Pro unless your budget is just /that/ tight.
 
Abu Som3a said:
At least I admitted I was copying you.
Click to expand...

hehe, thanks for the credit.

silent-circuit said:
The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro is underwhelming at best and noisy as hell at higher speeds. Considering $12 more gets you a far better HSF in the Scythe Ninja Plus, there is /no/ reason to ever buy the ACF 7 Pro unless your budget is just /that/ tight.
Click to expand...

The CM Hyper TX RR-PCH-S9U1-GP is usually around $15US and performs similarly to the AC F7Pro. And if you were lucky, you could have gotten it for $2 AR, hehe. While the Ninja is only $35US, the CM TX doubles the price difference, and it is better than stock... so its not that bad a deal.
 
This is CANADA. Research in Canadian stores first or otherwise he'll think you're teasing him.
 
Abu Som3a said:
This is CANADA. Research in Canadian stores first or otherwise he'll think you're teasing him.
Click to expand...

No worries I'm used to the teasing. I'm still waiting for NewEgg to ship to Canada, they ship to Alaska for gods sake :confused:

Anyways, like I said I'm cool with paying a bit extra for certain parts if it's likely worth it. couple bucks more for a way quieter heatsink? I'm down, I was actually looking at the one too which is dope :)

CPU
The E2140 is the best bang for buck you said but will it a bit more get me a lot more or are we at that point where a lot more money gets a little bit more performance?

RAM
I should be going with 800 over 667 so I can match the FSB? is that correct? Cause there seems to be a fair bit of price jump.

Mobo
The Gigabyte board is the one you'd recommend? I understand that p35 ones are the money at the moment so I'll keep my eye out for comparitively priced ones.

Video Card
ummm maybe it's just my math skills but 2400 being less than 9500 am I wrong in thinking that that card is probably garbage for 3d? I don't game much but I do enjoy a little call of duty 2 now and again. and I'd like to maybe check out some other games. I wouldn't game at ridiculous rezzes or anything but meh.

HDDs
I'm covered here, I have like 3x 320 seagate 7200.10 all SATA so that's not a worry. I keep running out of space, what can I say?
 
If you want to game a $150 Geforce 8600 GTS is the absolute lowest I'd go, period. I'd suggest an 8800 GTS but at ~$260 that's likely more than you're looking to spend by a good bit. The Radeon HD 2400 is in fact /trash/ for gaming, and the 2600 is only a bit better. Nvidia has the gaming crown right now.

I'd say you're good with either the Abit IP35-E or Gigabyte P35C-DS3L. There's a big range of options in both of these series though, so look at the boards and features available and buy what you'll use. These two are just the 'budget' entries. You may find the extra $40 or so for the DS3R is worth it for you.

The next real step up from the E2xxx series would be the E4400 at around $125. You get a bigger cache and maybe a 200-400Mhz better OC for the money. I don't think it's worth it if you want to be budget minded. After all -- in 6-8 months when the Yorkfield and Wolfdale 45nm 1333Mhz FSB chips are cheap you can just buy one of those are replace it if you want.
 
Abu Som3a said:
This is CANADA. Research in Canadian stores first or otherwise he'll think you're teasing him.
Click to expand...

Normally I would, but I don't have time right now.

Here's a review that shows how the cache size difference affects performance:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_4.html#sect0

As far as RAM goes, it depends on which CPU you choose. Here's some formulas for you, for a 1:1 config:

(CPU Multiplier) x [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed
4 x [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is useless. Keep it linked at 1:1:

E2160: 9 × 200 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-400 << STOCK speeds
E2160: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533 << Easy OC
E2160: 9 × 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667 << Great OC

E4400: 10 × 200 = 2.0Ghz, DDR2-400 << STOCK speeds
E4400: 10 × 266 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-533 << Easy OC
E4400: 10 × 333 = 3.3Ghz, DDR2-667 << Great OC

Since you're working with CPUs that have high multipliers, you can get DDR2-667 instead of DDR2-800.
 
Perrupa said:
Video Card
ummm maybe it's just my math skills but 2400 being less than 9500 am I wrong in thinking that that card is probably garbage for 3d? I don't game much but I do enjoy a little call of duty 2 now and again. and I'd like to maybe check out some other games. I wouldn't game at ridiculous rezzes or anything but meh.
Click to expand...

The 2400 is ATI. 9500 is NVidia. The numbers are meaningless.
 
frogger42 said:
The 2400 is ATI. 9500 is NVidia. The numbers are meaningless.
Click to expand...

Read before you post -- you do this entirely too often.

He's coming from a Radeon 9500. That'd be ATI last I checked. All that said, yes, the numbers aren't comparable.. but that doesn't make a Radeon HD 2400 suck any less.
 
Anyways, like I said I'm cool with paying a bit extra for certain parts if it's likely worth it. couple bucks more for a way quieter heatsink? I'm down, I was actually looking at the one too which is dope :)
Click to expand...
$36 - Scythe Ninja Plus REV.B Heatpipe Fanless Heatsink AM2 LGA775 S478 S754 S939 W/ 120MM Fan Adjuster

CPU
The E2140 is the best bang for buck you said but will it a bit more get me a lot more or are we at that point where a lot more money gets a little bit more performance?
Click to expand...
The E4400 for $135 may have similar overclockability but includes double the cache of the E2140. Here are some reviews that determine how cpu cache affects performance. Bear in mind that E21xx=1MB, E4xx=2MB, E6XX=4MB of cache, and the processors must be at the same clock speeds for the results to be comparable. You might also want to consider the higher end E6750 and Q6600.
http://www.egielda.com.pl/?str=art&id=2906-8
http://www.pconline.com.cn/diy/cpu/reviews/0704/993288.html
http://xtreview.com/review204.htm
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/53-pentium-e2140-e2160/
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=651&p=0
RAM
I should be going with 800 over 667 so I can match the FSB? is that correct? Cause there seems to be a fair bit of price jump.
Click to expand...
The sticks are running at a tight C4 latency, so you can raise it to C5 and reach &#1613;&#1613;&#1613;&#1613;DDR2-800 with no trouble.
Video Card
ummm maybe it's just my math skills but 2400 being less than 9500 am I wrong in thinking that that card is probably garbage for 3d? I don't game much but I do enjoy a little call of duty 2 now and again. and I'd like to maybe check out some other games. I wouldn't game at ridiculous rezzes or anything but meh.
Click to expand...
The 2400PRO is very cheap and has the circuitry that does hardware HD decoding, just like the more expensive 2600. Of course the card isn't intended for any sort of gaming. In your case, I recommend this card:
$124 - XFX GeForce 8600GT 540MHZ 256MB 128BIT 1.4GHZ DDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video Card {less $15MIR}
 
Ahh Abu Som3a is back. Thought he left the community. :) Either that or I'm really blind.

Anyway, if you're going with the E4400, all you need is DDR2 667 RAM as enginurd and Abu Som3a have pointed out. Although if the price difference is only $10 or so, go for the DDR2 800 RAM just in case you get a faster CPU or for OCing
 
Hey Guys, thanks again for all the help you've given some great advice. it looks like I'll be building this soon, I had to put it on hold because of school work piling up. So here's what I'm looking at right now. I'm still fairly clueless on the video card though.

(in case anyone asks, I'm carrying hard drives over from my last build)

CPU
Intel Pentium Dual Core E2140 Socket LGA775, 1.60 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, 65nm
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014196&cid=CPU.84)
$73.99

Scythe KATANA 2
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014052&cid=FN.349)
$28.99

Mobo
Asus P5K-SE Socket 775 Intel P35 + ICH9 Chipset Dual-Channel DDR2
1066/800/667Mhz GigaLAN SATA/eSATA HD Audio Support 1333Mhz CPU
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014629&cid=MB.157)
$109.99

Case + PSU
Antec Sonata III Quiet Super Mid Tower w/ 500W PSU Metallic Charcoal Color
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011668&cid=999.243.272)
$109.99

Memory
OCZ (OCZ2P800R22GK) DDR2 PC2-6400 800MHz Platinum XTC Revision 2 2GB (2x1024MB) Dual Channel Kit
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=010870&cid=RAM.835)
$57.99 - $28MIR =
$29.99

Video Card (Still completely clueless here...)

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1650 Pro ATI Radeon X1650Pro Chipset 512MB PCI-Express Graphic Card
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011668&cid=999.243.272)
$66.99

Asus EN8500GT SILENT/HTD/256M nVidia GeForce 8500GT 256MB Dual Display PCI-Express Graphics Card
(http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013962&cid=999.243.390)
$90.99

Optical Drive
LG GSA-H55N IDE Black 20X DVD-Writer W/SecurDisc 20xDVD+R/-R
8xDVD+RW/6xDVD-RW 48xCD-R 32xCD-RW
http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013930&cid=CR.184)
$30.49


Total is Approx $475 + tax
Now there's some parts in here I'm unsure about like the mobo and video card so any advice at all would be a great help. I think I'm buying the RAM for sure because it's ludicrously cheap but if there are beter deals afoot I'd love to know ;)

Thanks again, guys :)
 
Just did a little window shopping at directcanada.com and they seem to have a good reseller rating and some great prices (as well as free shipping ;) )

Here's what I got up to.



Gigabyte GeForce 8600GT OC 600MHZ 256MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Passive Video Card
$113.51


ASUS P5K SE ATX LGA775 P35 DDR2 PCI-E16 2PCI 3PCI-E1 SATA2 Sound GBLAN Motherboard
$107.46


Lg GSA-H55N Black DVD+RW 20X8X16 DVD-RW 20X6X16 Int Ide 2MB Oem Dvd Writer W/ Sw
$27.86


Pioneer DVR-212D Black DVD-RW 18X6X18 DVD+RW 18X8X18 Dl 10X Sata 2MB Oem Dvd Burner No Software
$27.99


Scythe Katana 2 CPU Cooler Heatpipe Heatsink LGA775 AM2 S478 S754 S939 S940 W/ 100MM 1500RPM Fan
$21.75


Antec Sonata Iii Black Atx 16IN Mid Tower Quiet Case 3X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5IN 500W 120MM Fan
$111.54


Intel Pentium Dual Core E2140 Dual Core Processor LGA775 1.6GHZ 800FSB 1MB Retail
$69.88

Subtotal: 479.99

Like I said, any advice would be great. (I'm getting that RAM at CanadaComputers though, so cheap!)
 
Not bad. You could also check out the 2600Pro, 2600XT, and 8500GT. If you won't be doing any HD video watching, go for any $30 card, since you won't be gaming.
 
If noise is really a concern of yours I think you should seriously consider getting the Scythe Ninja instead of the Katana 2. The Scythe Ninja is a much better heatsink for you needs if noise is a concern of your's as it was designed with low airflow in mind, I run mine with the supplied 120mm fan undervolted so it spins at approx 1000RPM and it's virtually silent.
 
enginurd said:
Not bad. You could also check out the 2600Pro, 2600XT, and 8500GT. If you won't be doing any HD video watching, go for any $30 card, since you won't be gaming.
Click to expand...

I do game occasionally, just not very often. and the cheapest passively cooled Vid Card I could find was $80, so I figured I might as well pay $30 for a card that can run some sick games :)

Darth Bobo said:
If noise is really a concern of yours I think you should seriously consider getting the Scythe Ninja instead of the Katana 2. The Scythe Ninja is a much better heatsink for you needs if noise is a concern of your's as it was designed with low airflow in mind, I run mine with the supplied 120mm fan undervolted so it spins at approx 1000RPM and it's virtually silent.
Click to expand...

Is it really that much better? I definitely would prefer quieter but the reviews I saw put them whithin about 2dBa of each other. I'll look into it further though, thanks :)

Anyone have any advice on a cheaper, decent mobo?
 
Yes, the ninja is much better. I agree with the P35-DS3 recommendation from Danny. Another good alternative is the Abit IP35-E, but its gettin harder to find it in stock.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top