Building a Basic Server

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YellowSnow

Limp Gawd
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Jan 27, 2009
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I'm considering purchasing this combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.214814

It consists of this barebones server and this CPU for $546.98 shipped.

Without going into all the details of what I expect from this server, is this a pretty good deal? One thing I noticed is that the Mobo only supports 8GB of DDRII 800/667/533. I'm not concerned about the 8GB limit because the OS license I have is Windows 2003 Server Standard, which is only a 32 bit OS right? So I can only use a little over 3GB of RAM anyway right? But isn't the DDRII 800 going to be a bottleneck since the processor has a 1333MHz FSB speed?

Assuming this is a good setup, what RAM should I use with it and what HDD would be a good performance/value setup for a RAID mirror? Is the onboard sofware based RAID okay or should I use the PCI interfaced 3Ware RAID card I have for the system drive?

Details on the 3Ware card I already have:

3ware 8006-2LP 2-Port SATA Hardware RAID Controller - PCI, Low-Profile, 2-Port SATA, Management Suite, RAID 0/1 and JBOD
MPN: 8006-2LP
 
1) We need to know what you're planning to use this server for and whether or not it's for a business setting before we can say it's a good deal or not.
2) Windows 2003 Server supports 8GB of RAM via the PAE switch or something to that effect.
3) DDR2 800 RAM will not be the bottleneck. With C2D based CPUs, FSB does not equal RAM speed. It is determined as so:

Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Actual FSB x 4 = Stated FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
1:1 Ratio: 2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed
1:1 Ratio: FSB = 1/2 RAM speed
1:1 Ratio: DRAM = 1/2 RAM Speed
Note that C2D systems don't see a performance increase or decrease with any ratio higher than 1:1

At a minimum for a 1333Mhz C2D like the Xeon 3110, you need DDR2 667 RAM. Since DDR2 800 RAM is faster than DDR2 667 RAM, DDR2 800 RAM will not be a bottleneck

4) Whether or not onboard software RAID is okay is dependent on what exactly you're planning to use the server for. For RAID 0 or RAID 1, onboard software RAID will be enough. For RAID 5 and above, not quite enough.

5) What HDD and RAM you need is, again, dependent on what exactly you're planning on using this system for.
 
Thanks Danny.

This server will be a member server in a MS Workgroup of 18 workstations. It's primary function will be to allow access to a Foxpro based database called Mail Order Manager (MOM). It's rare for more than 5 or 6 users to be logged into MOM at once and even fewer use it at one time, but this could all change (double...triple?) when the economy impoves. However, the current 2003 Server in place works just fine and is only a P4 3.2 machine with 3GB of RAM.

The only reason I'm buying this replacment server is to use it as a backup server (to backup the workstations and the other server every week night) and serve as a replacement should the existing server have a major failure or become too slow when business picks up.

The existing server also acts as a print server for a few printers and has network shares where up to 2 people at once access Adobe CS2.3 based files. Again, that could, maybe, double in the future.

Let's see. The Trend Micro Office Scan console is on there too. No other databases though. That's about it. It's not a very demanding scenario really.

Would it make more sense to have the 3Ware card control the system drive and use the onboard sw RAID for the network shares or vice versa?

Edit: RAID would be RAID 1 (Mirrored) for both arrays I'm proposing. Is DDR2 400 overkill? Assuming DDR2 667 is less expensive, would that work just as well?

Edit2: BTW, we own two Server 2003 Standard licenses at this time. My old "backup server" has MoBo issues which is why I want this new system to use the OS unused license on.
 
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Hmm then for your needs, that's a decent enough deal.

DDR2 800 RAM is not overkill. However if DDR2 667 is significantly less expensive, then it'll work just as well.

As for HDD setup, I'm not entirely familiar with that 3Ware card. It might be a good idea to hit the Disk Storage subforum and ask them which setup would work best for you.
 
I realized that I really need a motherboard with at least one PCI-X slot if I want to get the most out of the 3Ware card so I'm on the hunt again. Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Any opinions on this system? http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4546315&CatId=3372

Are there specific brands of servers/MoBo's that have trustworthy RAID, etc? I've seen many comments that indicate "onboard RAID is not to be trusted" but that seems a little broad. Are there trusted brands?

Another option is to simply replace the Gigabyte 8ik1100 Rev2 board that is giving me issues but I'm apprehensive given the number of connections to the case. I'd almost rather spend the extra money to get a motherboard that is already installed in the case unless somebody knows of a replacement MoBo that would fit this case. It's a Chieftec Case, not sure of the model number.

I'd also like to stick with a case that will fit the 4 drive 3Ware drive cage that I use in the current system. It slides into the front of the case where at least 3 CD ROM sized drive spots stacked on top of eachother would go. In this Chieftec case, it doesn't leave room for a CD ROM though. But that's no biggie.
 
I think Server 2003 and 4GB of RAM will be more than enough for our needs. But hopefully business picks up enough to justify such an upgrade at some point, and hopefully this system I'm trying to nail down will be future proof enough that we can justify upgrding the OS and adding some RAM to it when that time comes. :)
 
Always build for the future in mind and expansion!

good boards are

Tyan, SuperMicro, Intel.

i would consider more then a 2 drive raid 0 for redeundancy, sounds like some important files may be on this server, you need to be looking at raid 5 or 6 and some proper backup solution (since we all know, raid is NOT a backup)
 
At work we use toasters usb things to backup on a set of Segate 250 GB hard drives. Works like a dream.
 
I'm really looking for examples of a good value server that fits my situation. Any suggestions such as specific brands of already-built servers and/or components, specific vendors, etc. are greatly appreciated.

Thanks to MrGuvernment for suggesting those 3 brands of MoBo's. That helps a lot.

Perhaps an easy way to start is to let me know what you think about this system I linked to earlier.

Any opinions on this system? http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4546315&CatId=3372
Click to expand...
 
YellowSnow said:
I realized that I really need a motherboard with at least one PCI-X slot if I want to get the most out of the 3Ware card so I'm on the hunt again. Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Any opinions on this system? http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4546315&CatId=3372

Are there specific brands of servers/MoBo's that have trustworthy RAID, etc? I've seen many comments that indicate "onboard RAID is not to be trusted" but that seems a little broad. Are there trusted brands?

Another option is to simply replace the Gigabyte 8ik1100 Rev2 board that is giving me issues but I'm apprehensive given the number of connections to the case. I'd almost rather spend the extra money to get a motherboard that is already installed in the case unless somebody knows of a replacement MoBo that would fit this case. It's a Chieftec Case, not sure of the model number.

I'd also like to stick with a case that will fit the 4 drive 3Ware drive cage that I use in the current system. It slides into the front of the case where at least 3 CD ROM sized drive spots stacked on top of eachother would go. In this Chieftec case, it doesn't leave room for a CD ROM though. But that's no biggie.
Click to expand...

From the little bit of info I've found about your 3Ware RAID controller here on the forums, you're better off just using the onboard RAID controller. That cards seems to be slow, outdated and generally not that good of a card apparently.

In general, onboard RAID is good enough for RAID 0 and RAID 1. It's enough for RAID 5 if you don't mind the performance hit and heavy CPU usage. AFAIK, Intel has the best onboard RAID solutions. Avoid Nvidia onboard raid as those have been shown in the past to be abnormally slow, even for RAID 0 and RAID 1. AMD doesn't have that much of a track record when it comes to onboard RAID but from what I can tell, it isn't as bad as Nvidia's.

As for good mobo brands, SuperMicro and Intel are my top choices for servers.

The gigabyte mobo you have is based on some seriously old tech. It's gonna be more cost effective to just get a new system.

As for that particular CybertronPC server setup, specs looks good but never heard of CybertronPC so I can't say anything about the quality of their support or build quality. However that server might be overkill for your needs. From what you've told us so far, even if business picks up, a single quad-core Xeon server will be enough for your needs. From what I can ascertain, Foxpro isn't that demanding in terms of CPU horsepower. It just needs a ton of RAM. File serving and print serving aren't that much demanding either.

From what I can gather from the Networking and Security subforum, Dell and HP are the top two OEMs for prebuilt servers. Try to stick to an Intel CPU based server. The Dell PowerEdge T300 seems to be a pretty nice budget server.
 
Wow, that's great info, Danny. Thank you.

As for the 3Ware card, I know it's not considered the best, but I believe that many of the issues people see are from not jumpering their drives to SATA I. If you search this card on 3Ware's site, almost all of the knowledgebase topics are in reference to this known issue.

I'm also searching for a new laptop and considering a Vostro 1720 so I'll have to look at Dell's server offerings while I'm there customizing a server.

I'm assuming that when purchasing a Dell or HP server, that it's best to purchase direct, right?

Edit: Also, there is a SQL based version of the MOM software that's currently Foxpro based that we could upgrade to at some point. I'd like the server to be capable of handling such an upgrade.

Edit 2: Also, regarding the 3Ware card, it's only used in JBOD mode to backup the main server to one 500GB SATA HDD every night. The backup programs verify the backups and let me know if there is any corruption. I don't think it's a good card to use for the system drive since it's older tech. I have a feeling onboard RAID would be faster since the 3Ware card is PCI-X based and limited to SATA I...
 
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For the Dell, I've heard of people getting even better deals through a Dell rep. See if there's a Dell rep in your area. Compare the prices he/she gives you and the prices that Dell online gives you. Though for just a single server, you might not get that much of a deal but still worth a try. For HP, not too sure.

As for the SQL MOM, IIRC, SQL requires a ton of RAM and HDD speed. Not much in the CPU department. Probably should hit up the Networking & Security subforum and see what'll be the idea HDD setup for your needs as I'm a bit fuzzy on that.
 
Even with a $500 off coupon code I found, the Dell servers are really expensive. With a single dual core Xenon and no HDD's or RAID controller, the price isn't bad, but I don't want to buy a Dell and then find out it's a bitch to find compatible hardware or that adding it voids my warranty or something.

What about HP or Systemax servers? Less expensive for a reason?
 
YellowSnow said:
Even with a $500 off coupon code I found, the Dell servers are really expensive. With a single dual core Xenon and no HDD's or RAID controller, the price isn't bad, but I don't want to buy a Dell and then find out it's a bitch to find compatible hardware or that adding it voids my warranty or something.

What about HP or Systemax servers? Less expensive for a reason?
Click to expand...

No prob with going with HP. I personally dunno too much about HP servers so I can't really say anything bad about them. But many of the IT Admins in the networking and security subforum do recommend HP servers.

As for Systemax, they're the house brand of Tigerdirect IIRC. Would definitely be cautious about buying from them.

Dell servers are pretty compatible with a wide variety of hardware. As far as warranty goes, I recommend chatting up with the Dell guys and clear up the warranty issue. I'm 90% sure that most hardware upgrades will not void your warranty.
 
Should I have posted this thread in the networking and security subforum to get more responses? Is there another webforum that would be a good place to post for help finding a good value server?
 
YellowSnow said:
Should I have posted this thread in the networking and security subforum to get more responses? Is there another webforum that would be a good place to post for help finding a good value server?
Click to expand...

For a server for business needs, yeah the networking and security subforum would be a better place. Ask a mod to move this thread over to that subforum or just create a new thread altogether with the new info you've gotten here so far.
 
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