Build, or Pre-Build?

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Mekanic01

Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Messages
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In about a month, I'm looking for a new pc, and I'm not really sure which way to go right now. I've been looking at pre-built systems, if only to get away from compatability issues, though I can't really find one that I really like. Besides, I've kinda always been against them. While they are easy on the pocketbook, I'd still have to add stuff, so really, why bother.

I've built systems in that past, but it's been a couple years since I've done so. I don't really know what's good out on the market anymore. If I were to go back to building a system, I want to do something tried and true.

Hmmm, pre-reqs. I want at least 4gb memory, and a big hard drive. I'm also looking to have a 20", maybe 22" LCD monitor. I guess I can spend about $1500-$2000, being the most I've ever spent on a new pc. :)

What am I going to do with it? Ah, gaming mostly, I tend to go back and forth from pc games to console games.

Overclocking. Well, the system I'm using now, I've had about two/three years, Barton 2500 that I pushed up to 2.2 gigs, stable on air. It ran fine for quite a while, so I got greedy and pushed it to 2.3 gigs, and that was my mistake. I haven't been able to run it over 1.8 gigs stable since then. So I'd be willing to OC, but only a little bit if stable.

My god, before I forget, I need it quiet. I'm running a Thermaltake fan right now and the constant drone is driving me nuts! Air would be best, not really sure I'd want to go water, unless it's low maintenance.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
 
Here, this should get you started

$225 - MSI 8800GTS 512MB
$200 - E8400
$130 - Antec P180
$110 - MSI P35 Neo2-FR
$110 - WD6400AAKS
$90 - Corsair HX520W
$90 - 4GB G.Skill DDR2-1000 2x2GB
$40 - Xigmatek HDT-S1283
$27 - Samsung SH-S203B
============
$1025 + tax and shipping (before any rebates)

The Xigmatek is quiet and can get that CPU up to 4Ghz, along with that board and RAM. The P180 is one of the quietest cases around, and the GTS is perfect for your potential screen size. Samsung optical drives are very quiet, as well as WD hard drives. Oh, and that particular WD is FAST. What features do you need in a motherboard?
 
enginurd said:
What features do you need in a motherboard?
Click to expand...
Stable. Is there a motherboard with a decent built in wireless network?

Also, Vista 64, or XP 64? I've been bouncing back and forth between XP 32 and Vista Ultimate 32 on my current system, and it seems that the XP runs a helluva lot better. Though with a good system as outlined above, will Vista be the better choice? Onboard sound is good for me too. If it plays my MP3s fine, I'm good. Seems that most onboard sound is pretty good anyway. Um, otherwise, as long as everything is covered, I should be ok.
 
One more question that I can think of before I head off to dreamland. What online stores are reputable? I usually shop at Newegg, but I'd like to shop around and maybe get some better prices.
 
Mwave.com is where I buy alot of hardware from(also of course newegg).
Prices are right in line with the egg usually and they have a build option for 80 bucks. They can build, test and install all drivers including the OS and ship it to you. Not bad considering you pick all your parts like usual then you just add the build option to your cart and your done. I have personally seen 2 systems build by them and they are very clean and well built along with decent cable managment. I'm actually considering having them built my next rig only just to avoid any potential DOA hassels. It would be freaking wonderfull to for just once have a big box show up at my door and just hook it up and turn it on??!?1 lol
Might wanna consider that.
 
Newegg.com
Tigerdirect.com
Mwave.com
NCIXUS.com
ClubIt.com
Zipzoomfly.com
ChiefValue.com
Amazon.com too
CompUSA
 
Mekanic01 said:
Stable. Is there a motherboard with a decent built in wireless network?
Click to expand...

The only motherboards I've ever seen with onboard wireless are ones made by Asus. This mobo is relatively stable and does have that onboard wireless you seek:
Asus P5K-E/WIFI-AP Intel P35 ATX Motherboard - $150

And definitely get Vista 64bit. Vista 64bit is better supported app and driver wise than XP 64bit. So Vista 64bit is the better choice.
 
What about going for a Q6600 instead of the E8400? I'd probably wait with the new graphics cards coming out soon.
 
If you're just gaming, you don't really need a quad. The Q6600 will suck more juice and create more heat than the E8400. The list from enginurd is top notch, and I would agree with everything on there. If you want built-in wireless, I've been very happy with my P5K-E/Wifi AP board. Rock solid for OCing (I've gone up to 3.6 stable with my Q6600), and plenty of features.
 
The GenHard FAQ (sticky) has a huge list of online retailers that many people here frequent.

Personally, I stick to newegg, zipzoomfly, mwave, Clubit.com, buy.com, svc.com, jab-tech.com, monoprice.com, performance-pcs.com, and directron.com.
 
Thanks for all the advice. It looks like I'll go with Enginurd's list, though I'm going to the CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 55w power supply for a few dollars more. And I'm doubling the memory to 8 gigs.

For wireless I already have the Asus WL-138G V-2 card, hopefully Vista Ultimate 64 will accept it better than Ultimate 32 did.

Also, what do you guys think about these?
Logitech 904369-0403 mouse: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16826104125

Logitech G11 Keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16823126009

SAMSUNG 2253BW Black 22" Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16824001268

Couple questions on this stuff though.

First for the PS3 gamers. Can I hook my PS3 up through a KVM switch to work with the monitor?

Next. I've never used a heatpipe design for a CPU heatsink. How do work with the grooves from the pipes in the bottom, wouldn't that allow for overheating?

Sorry if I'm asking alot of noobish questions, but as I've stated, I've been out of this for years.
 
The 550W Corsair should cost LESS than the 520W model, because the 520W model is modular and the 550W is NOT. Get it from buy.com... it should be $85 before rebates (550W).

There aren't any huge grooves on the bottom, only microscopic ones, which get filled in by the thermal compound. Pickup some AS5 or MX-2 and you'll be all set.

You'll probably need a DVI/HDMI switch instead of a KVM for the PS3 and PC.
 
Thanks Enginurd. I have everything on a wish list on newegg, but I fully intend to shop around for better prices when I'm ready to buy. I've already been looking around a bit, and found the P180 case for about $20 less. At Newegg prices, I'm currently around $1600, which is still within my means. And I've checked over the list a couple times, and I'm pretty sure I've got everything I need on it.
 
enginurd said:
The 550W Corsair should cost LESS than the 520W model, because the 520W model is modular and the 550W is NOT. Get it from buy.com... it should be $85 before rebates (550W).
Click to expand...

Just from curiosity, what's the difference between modular and non-modular? For instance, when I think modular, I expect to be able to remove and replace things as needed.

Also, after reading the Vista x64 FAQ in the OS forum, I was wondering, does anybody know of any driver issues regarding any of the parts listed thus far in this thread?
 
Mekanic01 said:
Just from curiosity, what's the difference between modular and non-modular? For instance, when I think modular, I expect to be able to remove and replace things as needed.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much it right there. You can remove or attach the cables as needed.
 
Yah, modular PSs are great, but just stay away from the Ultras...While some have great luck they seem to have more problems than most.
 
imapcmodder said:
Yah, modular PSs are great, but just stay away from the Ultras...While some have great luck they seem to have more problems than most.
Click to expand...

Only the original X-Connects had serious problems, IIRC. Just look for reviews for specific models. Ultra makes some great, affordable PSUs -- just make sure you use the correct model for the type of system you're building.
 
Eh... its only 18 posts deep, we can resurrect it. :p This way you can get more advice/info.

Mekanic01 said:
RE: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1303352

You gave me some advice a while back, and I've been kinda working around the info you gave me. As I was looking around at monitors, I noticed that the BenQ G2400W seems to be well recommended here, and for the price, it seems like a good way to go. However, in my readings, I see that 24" and up would need SLi, and the system you pointed out doesn't cover that.

Since you were able to throw something together pretty quickly the last time, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me some advice again.

Thanks,
Mek
Click to expand...

While 24" 1920x1200 is where SLI becomes beneficial, you can certainly stick with a single card config. The new graphics cards are coming out in a few weeks, so you should definitely wait for those before you make your decision (to see if one of the newer cards can handle 2MP on its own better than your current choices).

If you want SLI as an option, go for an nForce 750i SLI FTW board. You can start with a single 8800GTS 512MB and see how gaming performance is, then, if you're unhappy, add a 2nd card for SLI action. If you buy before the new cards come out, be sure to get an eVGA or BFG branded 8800GTS, so you can step up to one of the newer cards in case the performance difference for your resolution is huge.
 
Thanks again Enginurd. I'd rather not go SLI if I don't have to. If the MSI 8800GTS 512MB will cover a 24", I can stick with that.
 
It really depends on you, and the game you're playing. An 8800GTX was still ok for a 24" LCD, and the 8800GTS 512MB isn't far behind the GTX, so it could still play some games nicely. Ideally, you'd want the 9800GX2, but that thing is pricey. Anyhow, just get an eVGA or BFG instead of an MSI, since the new cards are right around the corner.
 
May I ask why you're considering 8GB of RAM? Unless you're using programs that are extremely memory-intensive, you'll won't see much benefit over 4GB.
 
tiraides said:
May I ask why you're considering 8GB of RAM? Unless you're using programs that are extremely memory-intensive, you'll won't see much benefit over 4GB.
Click to expand...

I get to build a pc once maybe every three to four years. I've got a decent amount of money to go into this system. As I read up more, I just want to go faster. You say I won't see much benefit, not that I won't see any benefit. Therefore, what can be wrong with doing so?
 
The only thing it would hurt is overclock ability, and only slightly, due to the added stress on the MCH from using 4 sticks of RAM instead of 2. Since you're getting 8GB of RAM, be sure to get a RAMdisk program to have some fun with all of that fast memory and make use of it.
 
enginurd said:
The only thing it would hurt is overclock ability, and only slightly, due to the added stress on the MCH from using 4 sticks of RAM instead of 2. Since you're getting 8GB of RAM, be sure to get a RAMdisk program to have some fun with all of that fast memory and make use of it.
Click to expand...

Er, how much will it hurt overclocking, and please explain the RAMdisk thing.
 
Ok, a couple changes, add/subtract and whatnot, and this is what I've got.

XIGMATEK MC NRP-MC651 650W ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V Ver. 2.92 Power Supply - Retail $109.99

MSI P35 Neo2-FR LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $119.99

MSI NX8800GTS 512M OC GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $209.99 (Although I may be passing this up, with the June 18 release of the GTX 280, I might get that instead)

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail $189.99

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail $129.99 (Was planning on getting 2 kits for 8GB, but waiting to find out on the loss of OC-ability)

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $109.99

Logitech G15 2-Tone USB Wired Standard Gaming Keyboard - Retail $89.99

BenQ G2400W Black 24" 5ms DVI HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail $399.99

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B - OEM $29.99 (Also considering the lightscribe version)

OCZ OCZTFRZTC Freeze Extreme Thermal Conductivity Compound - Retail $6.99

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail $36.99

XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - Retail $6.99

All prices are Newegg base prices, not including rebates or shipping. Surprisingly though, the shipping is only about $30 for all of it. I already have a case, I bought the Alien-X case from Xoxide, maybe not a great case, but I like the looks of it, and I have some future modding ideas based on the current design.

If I knock off the price of one set of memory sticks, and the video card, it will make the GTX 280 a bit more affordable.

Any thoughts on this?

EDIT: Memory quality better than quantity? Would I get a better OC using OCZ ReaperX or Platinum for a few bucks, getting only 4GB?
 
Drop the Xigmatek PSU and get this better Corsair PSU instead:
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $99

Also, don't bother with the OCZ TIM. The stock Xigmatek TIM is pretty good from what I've seen.

As for how much of an OC is lost when using 4 sticks of RAM, there's no concrete answer to that. I've seen 4 sticks limit an OC as much as 600Mhz while some times limit it as little at 200Mhz. It's pretty much random for the degree of loss but there is a loss. Just keep the northbridge nice and cool and you should be fine.

And no on the OCZ Reaper RAM or other choices. G.Skill DDR2 1000 RAM is more than enough and better since you know for a fact it's capable of DDR2 1000 speeds.

Also, include the real price of the parts, not the MSRP prices. The real price of the parts is the price of the part before rebates. So that G.Skill set is $85 without any sort of rebate. Unlike other sites (Tigerdirect), newegg doesn't try to fool you with after rebate prices. Newegg always list items by their real price, not their after-rebate price.
 
Danny Bui said:
Drop the Xigmatek PSU and get this better Corsair PSU instead:
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $99

Also, don't bother with the OCZ TIM. The stock Xigmatek TIM is pretty good from what I've seen.

As for how much of an OC is lost when using 4 sticks of RAM, there's no concrete answer to that. I've seen 4 sticks limit an OC as much as 600Mhz while some times limit it as little at 200Mhz. It's pretty much random for the degree of loss but there is a loss. Just keep the northbridge nice and cool and you should be fine.

And no on the OCZ Reaper RAM or other choices. G.Skill DDR2 1000 RAM is more than enough and better since you know for a fact it's capable of DDR2 1000 speeds.

Also, include the real price of the parts, not the MSRP prices. The real price of the parts is the price of the part before rebates. So that G.Skill set is $85 without any sort of rebate. Unlike other sites (Tigerdirect), newegg doesn't try to fool you with after rebate prices. Newegg always list items by their real price, not their after-rebate price.
Click to expand...

I picked the Xigmatek PSU 1: because it's modular, 2: because I wanted to try it out. I haven't seen any complaints about it, and if it's because nobody uses it, then why not? Somebody's gotta use it to tell how it is, right? Plus it's got the 6 and 8 pins I need for the GTX 280.

I chose the OCZ TIM for the 0 cure time. How long does the Xigmatek TIM take to cure?

And I think I'm going to ditch the extra 4GB RAM. If I could find two 4GB sticks for a decent price, maybe, but I would like to be able to OC this and not be bottlenecked.

As far as the prices are concerned, those are the first column prices on my newegg wish list.

Everything else seem fine?
 
Mekanic01 said:
I picked the Xigmatek PSU 1: because it's modular, 2: because I wanted to try it out. I haven't seen any complaints about it, and if it's because nobody uses it, then why not? Somebody's gotta use it to tell how it is, right? Plus it's got the 6 and 8 pins I need for the GTX 280.
Click to expand...

The 750TX does have have the 6 and 8 pins ofr the GTX 280. The 750TX also offers more power than that Xigmatek PSU, 60A on the +12V rail for the Corsair, 52A for the Xigmatek PSU. It's also priced the same as the Xigmatek PSU.

No no one has to use to tell how it is. When it comes to PSUs, it's always a good idea to stick to known good quality units rather than go with units that have not been properly reviewed or units with little info about it. By going with a PSU with little info about it, you may be getting a PSU that may damage your parts.

With that said, that Xigmatek PSU is built by CWT, so it does have a pretty high chance of being a good quality PSU.

No idea on the cure time for the Xigmatek TIM. Everything else looks fine
 
I agree, stick with a known good quality PSU, like the Corsair. No need to risk your parts with an unknown unit, leave it up to the pro's with automated test equipment.

I still use AS5 or TX-2 for my TIM. AS5 may have a cure time, but it only gets better with time, and its still good to start off with anyhow. MX-2 has no cure time, isn't conductive, but is harder to spread.

With the HDT-S1283, tint the base a bit and let the excess TIM you apply on the IHS fill the grooves left by the exposed heatpipes.
 
Ok, I'm convinced on the psu, I do want modular though. Will the previously recommended Corsair 520HX be enough with this build, or should I be bumping it up a bit? Anybody know what the draw is going to be from the GTX 280s? Again, I'd like to stay with modular, now that I've learned about them.

I tend to be sloppy with the TIM, so maybe I'll go with the MX-2 instead.
 
No idea how much power the GTX 280s will require. Though judging from the specs, I'd guess it would be about the same as the 9800GX2, which is a lot. The 520HX should be enough power but it might be a bit close. Get the Corsair 620HX instead for $140 just to be sure:
Corsair 620HX 620W Modular PSU - $140

The 520HX does come with the 8pin now. Some sites haven't updated their sites yet with the info. That 8 pin connector is also called 6+2Pin connector. Hit up Corsair's website:
http://corsair.com/products/hx.aspx
 
Untitled-1.jpg


Shows two 8pin (6+2), but no 6pins. IIRC, the GTX 280 uses both, right?
 
Yes, I just bought yet another HX520, and it does come with the 6+2 pin connectors for PCI-E graphics cards now.

The +2 means 2 of the 8 pins are detachable. Since its modular, you can email Corsair and ask for the cable you need if yours doesn't come with the proper cable. My original HX520 didn't come with the 6+2, so I requested it, and I just had to pay $4 shipping for it, along with some extra SATA power cables.
 
Detachable +2 pins? So that's another set of wires? Or does it tap into the other wires? Thanks for clearing up the 6+2 though, I've been somewhat curious about that.
 
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