Build Help

[tinytealturtle]

1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, HTPC

2. Will you be overclocking? possibly. Open to water cooling

3. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection? $1500-$2000(preferably on the lower side), Yes, Yes, Not entirely

4. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)? Dallas, Texas. Fry's is close. Although prices seem cheaper online especially with some places not charging tax!

5. What exact parts do you need for that budget? This is just a starting point. Not sure if i'm going to water cool the cpu or not. Low noise and performance are important in this build

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($324.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z97I-PLUS Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($148.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston Fury Black Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($123.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial MX100 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($202.98 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($329.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Silverstone 600W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Panasonic UJ-265 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($78.77 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Cougar Vortex PWM 70.5 CFM 120mm Fan ($14.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Cougar Vortex PWM 70.5 CFM 120mm Fan ($14.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-F12 PWM 55.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($22.57 @ Amazon)
Other: WD Red 6TB 3.5" HDD (Purchased For $0.00)
Other: NCase M1 V3 (Purchased For $225.00)
Total: $1677.22
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-01 01:31 EDT-0400

6. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? WD Red 6TB 3.5" and I've already purchased my M1 case so those are the only things locked in.

7. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Thunderbolt? Crossfire or SLI support? How many USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list. Wifi required, blue-tooth wanted

8. What resolution output do you need? 4K for HTPC movies and 1440p for gaming

9. Does this system need to fit into a particular space and do you need an optical drive? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc. Many modern SFF cases have either removed the optical drive or have been constructed so that removing the ODD increases the configuration possibilities immensely. I would like to have a ODD since this machine will double as a portable HTPC =)

10. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)? Not to comfortable with this. Open to minor modifcations

11. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care . Noise/Silence is of upmost importance in this build

12. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc? Portability is important. Already bought the M1 case. Weight isn't important. Plan to possibly install my own carrying handle not sure yet. WTH is water cooling quick disconnects?

13. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards. I have 64 bit window 7

14. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years? Immediately/couple weeks


Goals:

• Quiet
• Portability
• 1440p Gaming
• HTPC

Questions:

1. Water cooling or air? Which one is quieter and if water cooling is quieter is it worth the extra effort? Will the GPU/CPU be effectively cooled in a air setup?
2. Case fans. Should I get all Noctua case fans? I just want silence as much as possible. Also, any black, red, or white fans are favored. Noctuas are probably the exception to this
3. Since I'm using a 3.5" HDD + 2.5" SSD how should I build the PC with that in mind
4. Full-size GPU or Mini GPU? Is mini gpu a better idea in this sfx build? Would a full GPU hinder air flow? I think it would be cool to have a full size graphics card in this little beast though.

 

[Dangman]

1) Air cooling for the CPU and liquid cooling for the GPU.
2) Nope.
3) Make sure the case can actually fit the 3.5" drive.
4) Depends on the case.

I highly highly recommend that you read this article by the people over SilentPCReview.com (note the name) on how to make a quiet gaming mITX setup with your M1 case:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_Mini-ITX_Gaming_Build_Guide_2

Adjust as needed. If a PC is quiet by SPCR standards, then it's quiet or effectively silent by most normal people's standards. The only thing I would change is the video card: I'm not a huge fan of Zotac so I recommend sticking with your Asus card instead.

 

[Urelure]

1. What will you be doing with this PC?
Questions:

1. Water cooling or air? Which one is quieter and if water cooling is quieter is it worth the extra effort? Will the GPU/CPU be effectively cooled in a air setup?
2. Case fans. Should I get all Noctua case fans? I just want silence as much as possible. Also, any black, red, or white fans are favored. Noctuas are probably the exception to this
3. Since I'm using a 3.5" HDD + 2.5" SSD how should I build the PC with that in mind
4. Full-size GPU or Mini GPU? Is mini gpu a better idea in this sfx build? Would a full GPU hinder air flow? I think it would be cool to have a full size graphics card in this little beast though.

1. This is a matter of preference in so many ways it is hard to say, but generally I'm with dangman on this one.
2. If silence is your overall goal, then filling her up with fans might not be your best bet. Generally there is more to gain in acoustics by finding the optimal fan placements and fan curves in a given specific case, than to get the best possible fan.
3. If you water cool, then you can place the 3,5" drive in the bottom. If you go air, make sure to get a CPU cooler that still accommodates the 3'5" drive cage. Those are basically your only options, so that's all you need to know.
4. This is a tough one. For starters, if you're considering water cooling, I would rather drop it and put the money into a 980 for the ability to run higher settings @1440p. But if you're going for 970 then it becomes more complicated. The short cards will hurt your ability to overclock due to cooler capacity and restricted power delivery, while the long ones can as well but this time due to restricted airflow. In an open environment the short coolers are way louder, but due to the restricted airflow for the long cards, they might end up being louder anyway. I haven't seen any reports on it, but I expect the value of semi fanless mode cards like the strix to be limited in the M1 due to the airflow issues. At idle it'll probably be good, but I am sure you won't be gaming at all with the fans turned off. Again, this last point is a wild guess. Maybe someone with a 970 strix can chime in.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

Just an FYI, you ALSO have a MicroCenter in the Dallas/Richardson area.
They currently have the 4790K for $279

Also

1) Water cooling or air cooling. Technically they're BOTH air cooling. As you have to dissipate the heat through a radiator. Just, with liquid cooling, you're using a mechanical pump to move coolant, rather than basic physics as in a heat pipe.

Both have a certain amount of noise involved (as you still have fans). The best way to REDUCE noise, is to increase fan/rad size when possible. The larger the fan, the more air it moves at lower rotations and the less turbulence it creates with that air movement. Thus, quieter fan.

2) Look for fans that

A- Fit your case
B- Fit your airflow requirements
C- Fit your noise (decibel range) requirements.

That and remember, in a liquid cooling setup, you're going to get some noise off the pump as well.

3: With the NCase M1, mount the 3.5 in the bottom of the case. The SSD should be fine wherever you mount it.

4: Tough question.
A standard GPU unit will fit, but you may have thermal issues/ventilation issues.
A short GPU will probably alleviate the ventilation issues, but, due to where you mount the HDD, you may still have thermal issues.

 

[tinytealturtle]

1) Air cooling for the CPU and liquid cooling for the GPU.
2) Nope.
3) Make sure the case can actually fit the 3.5" drive.
4) Depends on the case.

I highly highly recommend that you read this article by the people over SilentPCReview.com (note the name) on how to make a quiet gaming mITX setup with your M1 case:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_Mini-ITX_Gaming_Build_Guide_2

1. Why do you say this?
2. Alright to not having all Noctua case fans. Why though? Just trying to pick your brain
3. The case CAN fit a 3.5" drive. Just not sure what kind of water cooling setup I can do with a 3.5" installed or how bad it will hinder my GPU temps if it's right underneath it.
4. Well it's an Ncase M1. I've read people have had better airflow/temps with shorter card. But the big card is quieter if I leave on the stock fans and idle.

And I've read that article many times over. But it seems like no one else is going that route on their builds and also it seems like i'm the only one mounting a 3.5" so i'm not sure if that would interfere with a water cooled setup

1. This is a matter of preference in so many ways it is hard to say, but generally I'm with dangman on this one.
2. If silence is your overall goal, then filling her up with fans might not be your best bet. Generally there is more to gain in acoustics by finding the optimal fan placements and fan curves in a given specific case, than to get the best possible fan.
3. If you water cool, then you can place the 3,5" drive in the bottom. If you go air, make sure to get a CPU cooler that still accommodates the 3'5" drive cage. Those are basically your only options, so that's all you need to know.
4. This is a tough one. For starters, if you're considering water cooling, I would rather drop it and put the money into a 980 for the ability to run higher settings @1440p. But if you're going for 970 then it becomes more complicated. The short cards will hurt your ability to overclock due to cooler capacity and restricted power delivery, while the long ones can as well but this time due to restricted airflow. In an open environment the short coolers are way louder, but due to the restricted airflow for the long cards, they might end up being louder anyway. I haven't seen any reports on it, but I expect the value of semi fanless mode cards like the strix to be limited in the M1 due to the airflow issues. At idle it'll probably be good, but I am sure you won't be gaming at all with the fans turned off. Again, this last point is a wild guess. Maybe someone with a 970 strix can chime in.

1. I have no preference. I just want my GPU/CPU to be adequately cooled. Preferabbly around 75C or lower on full load AND quiet. I would like it to be silent at idle and quiet at full load.
2. I've heard water cooled systems are generally quieter. But I've read on some people's M1 builds where they've said their pumps are the loudest things on their machines.
3. So water cool GPU, Air cool CPU, and 3.5" in the cage at the top? This would allow better airflow to my GPU. But it sounds like if I water cool everything I'm going to have to put it under my GPU. Which is fine as long as the temps aren't suffering on the GPU
4. I think i'm going to stay away from the 980. The performance per dollar isn't quite there compared to the 970 and it consumes more power which in turn can make it produce more heat and noise.And yes, I was wondering the same thing about the strix in a ITX case like this. Not sure if it's ever going to be at silent temperatures since everything is so close together.

Just an FYI, you ALSO have a MicroCenter in the Dallas/Richardson area. They currently have the 4790K for $279

Also

1) Water cooling or air cooling. Technically they're BOTH air cooling. As you have to dissipate the heat through a radiator. Just, with liquid cooling, you're using a mechanical pump to move coolant, rather than basic physics as in a heat pipe.
Both have a certain amount of noise involved (as you still have fans). The best way to REDUCE noise, is to increase fan/rad size when possible. The larger the fan, the more air it moves at lower rotations and the less turbulence it creates with that air movement. Thus, quieter fan.

2) Look for fans that
A- Fit your case
B- Fit your airflow requirements
C- Fit your noise (decibel range) requirements.
That and remember, in a liquid cooling setup, you're going to get some noise off the pump as well.

3: With the NCase M1, mount the 3.5 in the bottom of the case. The SSD should be fine wherever you mount it.

4: Tough question.
A standard GPU unit will fit, but you may have thermal issues/ventilation issues.
A short GPU will probably alleviate the ventilation issues, but, due to where you mount the HDD, you may still have thermal issues.

I was thinking about buying it from Microcenter! Thanks for reminding me.\
1. Makes sense about the bigger the fan the less noise their is. Looks like im stuck with 120mm fans though on this build
2. So far there's about 3-4 different fans I'm looking at. I will post them later probably. The Noctua's seem pretty popular though. Also, is their pumps that praised for being quiet?
3.So I should mount the 3.5" in the bottom. This is what I figured.
4. I would like to have a full size card for the cool factor. This case was meant to be able to house a full length card but that doesn't necessarily mean that I should. Also, the fans on the shorter models are louder.

 

[ghostwich]

I think you need to settle out your cooling decisions first.

While you can combine water+air cooling (i.e. do one thing for the CPU and a different thing for the GPU), I find that with such little room in the case, it's best to really be confident in what you choose and then build from that. I would actually split the decision between pure air (i.e. heatsink + fan only) vs custom liquid vs AIO (all-in-one, like Corsair H80i, etc.).

Pure air: easy but loud (subjective)
Custom liquid: expensive but quiet (subjective)
AIO: potential space issues (not subjective, c'mon all those tubes )

That said, my personal opinion goes to a custom loop for the whole thing - for the components you're looking at (no one buys a K processor to run stock clocks ), and 1440p gaming, you're going to be generating a fair amount of heat. As "quiet" is a relative and subjective term, I can only offer that I run similar enough components and feel quite comfortable with a single 240mm radiator.

A few miscellaneous thoughts:
* third party cooler designs like the STRIX (and EVGA's ACX, MSI's GAMING 4G) tend to dump the heat back inside the case, as compared to the "blower" reference NVIDIA design
* a 3.5" drive mounted to the floor will fit just fine for a watercooled GPU, but for the stock cooling it really is kind of tight, making the above point possibly worse
* some people like Noctua fans, some people do not, but in a case this small, with no windows, I think color should not be a factor
* on the last point, fan noise is highly subjective, so keep that in mind if you are going with pure air cooling (i.e. large heatsink on CPU)
* people who complain about pump noise may be running their pumps at very high RPMs (maybe higher than needed)
* temperature-wise, consider the case as two separate zones, one above the graphics card, and one below
* it's generally accepted that fans on a radiator have a different sound profile than open air
* when watercooling, since you'll be buying a block for the GPU, you want to think longevity vs today's cost per performance
* I've read that SPCR article and can't agree with every decision/conclusion they've made

I think a lot of this is subjective, and unfortunately you can't really know for sure until you have some components and can understand what it will sound like. You have hinted that a small card (i.e. the "short" 970) is too loud, so that might not bode well for pure air cooling. Cost is certainly a factor so I recommend putting together a few potential builds and seeing what you're most comfortable with.

 

[tinytealturtle]

I think you need to settle out your cooling decisions first.

While you can combine water+air cooling (i.e. do one thing for the CPU and a different thing for the GPU), I find that with such little room in the case, it's best to really be confident in what you choose and then build from that. I would actually split the decision between pure air (i.e. heatsink + fan only) vs custom liquid vs AIO (all-in-one, like Corsair H80i, etc.).

Pure air: easy but loud (subjective)
Custom liquid: expensive but quiet (subjective)
AIO: potential space issues (not subjective, c'mon all those tubes )

That said, my personal opinion goes to a custom loop for the whole thing - for the components you're looking at (no one buys a K processor to run stock clocks ), and 1440p gaming, you're going to be generating a fair amount of heat. As "quiet" is a relative and subjective term, I can only offer that I run similar enough components and feel quite comfortable with a single 240mm radiator.

A few miscellaneous thoughts:
* third party cooler designs like the STRIX (and EVGA's ACX, MSI's GAMING 4G) tend to dump the heat back inside the case, as compared to the "blower" reference NVIDIA design
* a 3.5" drive mounted to the floor will fit just fine for a watercooled GPU, but for the stock cooling it really is kind of tight, making the above point possibly worse
* some people like Noctua fans, some people do not, but in a case this small, with no windows, I think color should not be a factor
* on the last point, fan noise is highly subjective, so keep that in mind if you are going with pure air cooling (i.e. large heatsink on CPU)
* people who complain about pump noise may be running their pumps at very high RPMs (maybe higher than needed)
* temperature-wise, consider the case as two separate zones, one above the graphics card, and one below
* it's generally accepted that fans on a radiator have a different sound profile than open air
* when watercooling, since you'll be buying a block for the GPU, you want to think longevity vs today's cost per performance
* I've read that SPCR article and can't agree with every decision/conclusion they've made

I think a lot of this is subjective, and unfortunately you can't really know for sure until you have some components and can understand what it will sound like. You have hinted that a small card (i.e. the "short" 970) is too loud, so that might not bode well for pure air cooling. Cost is certainly a factor so I recommend putting together a few potential builds and seeing what you're most comfortable with.

It sounds like I might want to try doing a custom water loop. I've always wanted to do one. I have no clue where I should start though. Is there ratings on different pumps and their dba levels? lol
Also... Would it matter what version of card I should use if I'm going the water cooling route?

 

[Zap]

1) Air cooling for the CPU and liquid cooling for the GPU.

1. Why do you say this?

Probably because the GPU is capable of drawing much more power under load. Higher power usage = more heat produced = more cooling required = more fan noise (if equal cooling area on heatsink/radiator).

I just want my GPU/CPU to be adequately cooled. Preferabbly around 75C or lower on full load AND quiet. I would like it to be silent at idle and quiet at full load.

This is highly dependent on YOU. For instance I've had systems which I personally consider average in noise output, but my gaming buddies are all "OMG your computer is so silent!" Also, I know that my computers, while complete acceptable to me, would probably be unacceptably noisy to a true silent freak. Finally, what's your environment like? That's what you need to aim for.

Truly "silent" means no noise produced, but as long as you have moving parts (HDD, pump, fans) you cannot get true silence. Also, arguably any computer component can have the potential for high pitch noises (capacitor squeal, coil whine).

You will want to balance your desire for low noise against your desire for high performance, because high performance requires more electricity, which requires more cooling, which produces more noise.

The path to low noise starts with choosing the right components. You're already on board with this in your CPU and GPU choices, so good job there! Regarding cooling, most people don't realize how high of temperatures the CPU and GPU can handle at stock speeds. If you allow for higher temperatures, you can get your system to produce less noise because of lower fan speeds. Reduce the number of moving parts. For example two fans are noisier than one, all else being equal. This goes for triple fan graphics cards, pumps (pump+fan noisier than just fan), heatsinks versus radiators (heatsink with fan plus case fan, versus quieter case fan only cooling radiator). Fan design and placement can also affect noise.

SFF makes this a bit more difficult because of potential heatsink size limitations, but for a normal computer (or even micro ATX) the easiest way to reduce noise would be to reduce number of case fans to a minimum, use the biggest heatsink possible on the CPU, and have fans temperature controlled to keep the CPU and GPU under around 80ºC regardless of load.

I was thinking about buying it from Microcenter! Thanks for reminding me.\

Get the CPU and motherboard together there, to take advantage of the extra $40 combo discount.

 

[Necere]

It sounds like I might want to try doing a custom water loop. I've always wanted to do one. I have no clue where I should start though. Is there ratings on different pumps and their dba levels? lol
Also... Would it matter what version of card I should use if I'm going the water cooling route?

You should generally get a reference card if you're planning to watercool it, since most waterblocks are designed for the reference models. The ASUS Strix cards aren't reference and tend not to fit well in the M1 anyway due to their taller PCBs.

If you do decide to go with a full custom loop, be aware of how little extra space there is in the M1 and how this restricts component choice. It's especially important when choosing the pump and reservoir. Best bet is to look up builds others have done and follow their examples.

 

[Dangman]

1. Why do you say this?
2. Alright to not having all Noctua case fans. Why though? Just trying to pick your brain
3. The case CAN fit a 3.5" drive. Just not sure what kind of water cooling setup I can do with a 3.5" installed or how bad it will hinder my GPU temps if it's right underneath it.
4. Well it's an Ncase M1. I've read people have had better airflow/temps with shorter card. But the big card is quieter if I leave on the stock fans and idle.

And I've read that article many times over. But it seems like no one else is going that route on their builds and also it seems like i'm the only one mounting a 3.5" so i'm not sure if that would interfere with a water cooled setup

No one else is going that route because true silent "enthusiasts" are rare even among computer hardware enthusiasts. Unless SPCR comes out with another article showing even better noise to cooling results with a different cooling setup in the same case, I think it's fair to say that the SPCR is probably your best bang for the buck method to get a really quiet system. They even provide you with the audio recordings so you can hear for yourself how quiet the system will be.

1) Because of the information shown in the article and what Zap said
2) Not a huge fan of their pricing and I think they're a tad over-rated. I'm a sucker for the Scythe Gentle Typhoon fans.
3) Look at the pictures in the SPCR review very very carefully and you'll see your answer.
4) You're gonna to have to decide what you want more: Cooling or noise level.

Oh to further add on to what Zap said earlier about different strokes for different folks, I considered my system to be quiet but my brother thought it was quite loud. One of my uncles thought my PC wasn't on at all.

 

[tinytealturtle]

2) 2. Not a huge fan of their pricing and I think they're a tad over-rated. I'm a sucker for the Scythe Gentle Typhoon fans.
3) Look at the pictures in the SPCR review very very carefully and you'll see your answer.
4) You're gonna to have to decide what you want more: Cooling or noise level.

2. I'm definitely going to take a look at those fans. They're the color I would want as well!!!
3. I'm guessing you're talking about in the very bottom of the case?
4. So you're saying fans are quieter? Little confused. It seems that high quality fans are quieter than most pumps from what I'm gathering. Is this correct?

Also on the SPCR Review the temps look really high on the gpu what's up with that?!

 

[Dangman]

3. I'm guessing you're talking about in the very bottom of the case?

Yes

4. So you're saying fans are quieter? Little confused. It seems that high quality fans are quieter than most pumps from what I'm gathering. Is this correct?

Ok, your earlier post was saying this:
Shorter card = better cooling
Longer card = Quieter

Hence why I said you have to decide what you want more. And that's only if you don't use a CLC to cool the GPU. We're talking strictly about GPU temps here.

Also on the SPCR Review the temps look really high on the gpu what's up with that?!

Two factors are at play here:
1) It's running Furmark, a program designed to push GPUs and that's generally more heavy duty than most games.
2) It's inside a small M1 case where there isn't that much GPU cooling to begin with