Build Advice

[Ws60]

Hello, I'm a frequent lurker and occasional poster who has a few questions for those more knowledgeable them I am. Originally I asked in the video card forum about a potential upgrade to my current system but recent events have caused me to reconsider if a full on rebuild may not be a better choice in the long run. See my current board is going on about five years old at this point and for the first few years of its life was exposed to some intermittent heavy dust/tobacco smoke contamination. I did my best to keep it clean there's only so much to be done under those sorts of conditions. As such I am starting to wonder on how much more life may be left in her.

Anyway I have considered doing a rebuild before for the last year or two but kept putting it off as there was always something 'more important' to spend the money on even if given the current U.S. economy it was just tucking it away for a rainy day. While that has come in handy before at this point I'm frankly tired of always saying 'maybe later' whenever I do have a chance. Its the adult thing to do but as long as its not irresponsible whats the point of living if you don't let yourself have a little fun every once in awhile? Hence why I'm posting here asking what the good people of HardOCP have to say in the matter. Please note that the components I plan to reuse are only a possibility and I am open to altering that list if need be.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Primarily gaming with an emphasis on good looking graphics and reasonable FPS. Also its likely I will have this build, excluding minor upgrades, for 3-5 years. I do NOT plan on engaging in any sort of bitcoin or altcoin mining.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
~$1,000 USD maximum with some flexibility for reasonable shipping.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Superior, WI, USA.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Motherboard, CPU, GPU, Case. Potentially display and additional RAM as well.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
HDD:
-WD Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
PSU
-Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2
RAM
-(2x)G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)
6) Will you be overclocking?
I am open to moderate overclocking (4-4.5Ghz on the CPU for example) but nothing to the point water cooling is required.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
Current
-20" Acer 203W@1600x1050 720p HD
Planned
-20" to 24" 1920x1080 1080p HD within a year or so of the rebuild. Sooner if the other components plus it all come under budget. Really don't have room nor a desire to go any larger at this time.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Building sometime in the next two months depending on finances with a strong possibility of it being before the end of the month. At worst will have to wait after tax returns though I have nothing against sitting on a component for a month to finish assembly if the deal is hot enough. (Sucks having extra pulled out of my check but knowing I'll have money coming back at the end of the year makes up for it. )
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
-Some overclocking support as I am open to doing as such.
-Ethernet port due to having cable internet
-Looking primarily for durability over cutting edge performance as it'll likely be a few more years until my next full build as mentioned above.
-Otherwise no real preference on the bells and whistles included.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Win 7 Home Premium x64, OEM builders license


Here is what I'm considering so far:
Case
-NZXT Phantom 630 Full Tower
CPU (I like AMD but Intel appears to have soundly trounced them in the performance department for the time being.)
-i5-3570K Quad Core
OR
-i7-3770K Quad Core
Motherboard
-ASUS-P8Z77-V-PRO
-A Sabertooth would also be tempting considering the interest in moderate OC and the apparent bulletproof construction but outside of a hot deal seems far outside of my price range.
GPU
-Undecided but some flavor of Nvidia

 

[Dangman]

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Building sometime in the next two months depending on finances with a strong possibility of it being before the end of the month. At worst will have to wait after tax returns though I have nothing against sitting on a component for a month to finish assembly if the deal is hot enough. (Sucks having extra pulled out of my check but knowing I'll have money coming back at the end of the year makes up for it. )

First and foremost, you're planning far too early. Our parts recommendations tends to change over time due to changing/volatile pricing and availability of computer hardware. Hell some of our recommendations sometimes even change daily. So if you want an up-to-date build list, you're better off asking only 1-2 weeks in advance.

But I do have some other notes I want to share:

Anyway I have considered doing a rebuild before for the last year or two but kept putting it off as there was always something 'more important' to spend the money on even if given the current U.S. economy it was just tucking it away for a rainy day. While that has come in handy before at this point I'm frankly tired of always saying 'maybe later' whenever I do have a chance. Its the adult thing to do but as long as its not irresponsible whats the point of living if you don't let yourself have a little fun every once in awhile? Hence why I'm posting here asking what the good people of HardOCP have to say in the matter. Please note that the components I plan to reuse are only a possibility and I am open to altering that list if need be.

Now would be a good time to upgrade. The Intel CPUs coming in 2014 won't be that much of an upgrade over current Intel Haswell CPUs. In addition, the Intel Skylake CPUs that are supposedly coming out in 2015 will more than likely use rather expensive DDR4 RAM. It probably won't be until 2016 when we'll see a mainstream Intel CPU that'll be a cost-effective and worthwhile upgrade over a Haswell or even an Ivy Bridge setup. Or that DDR4 pricing might drop down to more reasonable levels.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Motherboard, CPU, GPU, Case. Potentially display and additional RAM as well.

Defintiely add in a SSD: That'll make the biggest difference in overall system responsiveness in a PC

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
HDD:
-WD Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
PSU
-Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2
RAM
-(2x)G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)

You can reuse the HDD and the PSU but you will need to buy new RAM as no current CPU platforms support DDR2 RAM. You're going to need DDR3.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Win 7 Home Premium x64, OEM builders license

Technically this means that you will have to buy a new license if you have already used that OEM license on your current PC.

CPU (I like AMD but Intel appears to have soundly trounced them in the performance department for the time being.)
-i5-3570K Quad Core
OR
-i7-3770K Quad Core
Motherboard
-ASUS-P8Z77-V-PRO

These parts are technically outdated FYI. The Core i5 4670K and the Core i7 4770K replaces those CPUs.

-A Sabertooth would also be tempting considering the interest in moderate OC and the apparent bulletproof construction but outside of a hot deal seems far outside of my price range.

The problem is that you're only interested in a moderate OC. A lot of $140 to $150 motherboards can easily handle a moderate OC with no issue. The Sabertooths are generally aimed at those who plan on doing heavy duty overclocking.

GPU
-Undecided but some flavor of Nvidia

REmember what I said above about volatile pricing and availability of PC hardware affects what we recommend? Video cards are a prime example of that. Nvidia may not be the best of choices depending on when you buy. For example, if you were buying this month and the litecoin craze hadn't taken off, Nvidia would not have been a good choice consideirng that current AMD GPUs hold the crown for best price to performance.

 

[Ws60]

First and foremost, you're planning far too early. Our parts recommendations tends to change over time due to changing/volatile pricing and availability of computer hardware. Hell some of our recommendations sometimes even change daily. So if you want an up-to-date build list, you're better off asking only 1-2 weeks in advance.

In hindsight your right, I'm not sure exactly what I was thinking with that sort of time frame to be honest. A little too much excitement over finally building a new system maybe. I'll have to ask again once its just a matter of placing the order but I'm still curious to see what you have to say.

But I do have some other notes I want to share:


Now would be a good time to upgrade. The Intel CPUs coming in 2014 won't be that much of an upgrade over current Intel Haswell CPUs. In addition, the Intel Skylake CPUs that are supposedly coming out in 2015 will more than likely use rather expensive DDR4 RAM. It probably won't be until 2016 when we'll see a mainstream Intel CPU that'll be a cost-effective and worthwhile upgrade over a Haswell or even an Ivy Bridge setup. Or that DDR4 pricing might drop down to more reasonable levels.

Thee main reason I was looking at Ivy Bridge CPU's was from what I've read Haswells really only worth the upgrade at stock clocks and is fairly intolerant of OCing as far as desktops are concerned. Where as even with a moderate OCed Ivy Bridge can easily be on par cycle for cycle with a price thats currently on par. Granted due to the above caveat you mentioned by the time I actually order this situation might be completely different. Maybe Haswell will seem more attractive by then.

Defintiely add in a SSD: That'll make the biggest difference in overall system responsiveness in a PC

I'll have to make a note of that. Mainly I shied away from SSD's as I heard they still had reliability issues and were overly expensive compared to a bog standard HDD but its been awhile since I last looked at them. Thus I'm very likely working off now quite dated information.

You can reuse the HDD and the PSU but you will need to buy new RAM as no current CPU platforms support DDR2 RAM. You're going to need DDR3.

I figured as much given the current motherboards age but did hope I could get away with it at least in the short term. That said RAM's fairly cheap comparatively so thankfully its not a deal breaker.

Technically this means that you will have to buy a new license if you have already used that OEM license on your current PC.

Thats what I get for buying the cheapest license I could find back when my knowledge of computers consisted mainly of how to turn them on and what not to poke. Its something I'll have to look into though and worst case as you said I'll have to get a new license. How does that saying go again, "Penny wise but Dollar foolish?" Worst case I still got a good few years out of the current license so I can't complain all that much.

These parts are technically outdated FYI. The Core i5 4670K and the Core i7 4770K replaces those CPUs.

Aye I'm aware but that choice was deliberate. From what I've read both here and elsewhere Haswells, at this point in time, appear to have a few issues that dampen my interest when compared to say Ivy Bridge. Mainly that they seem to have been more focused on the mobile market rather then desktops, so when compared to their immediate predecessor energy efficiency while idling is vastly improved under load that lead drops sharply. There's also the issues they seem to have regarding thermal output with even modest OC; coupled the fact that while at stock frequencies they do have somewhat more throughput then Ivy Bridge with the latter given a modest OC its easily able to keep pace. Not to mention its higher upper threshold even running on air cooling.

That said I'll wait and see where the market stands when the orders ready to put in. Things may, and likely will be, completely different.

The problem is that you're only interested in a moderate OC. A lot of $140 to $150 motherboards can easily handle a moderate OC with no issue. The Sabertooths are generally aimed at those who plan on doing heavy duty overclocking.

Yeah I figured it was overkill which is why I didn't snap one up even having found one in the ~$160 range as an open box special. It is more then I need and with proper case airflow any heat from the motherboard should easily be dissipated under reasonable operating conditions. Which on a side note is why I'm replacing my current case for the build as its airflow is...quite poor.

REmember what I said above about volatile pricing and availability of PC hardware affects what we recommend? Video cards are a prime example of that. Nvidia may not be the best of choices depending on when you buy. For example, if you were buying this month and the litecoin craze hadn't taken off, Nvidia would not have been a good choice consideirng that current AMD GPUs hold the crown for best price to performance.

Yeah I'm aware now that I was a little too enthusiastic to jump the gun and the fact this would be the first build I've personally done likely didn't help matters. So I'll keep tabs on whats going on until I order like you suggested then see what the HardOCP hive mind has to say.

Despite the premature nature of the questions you did raise a few points I need to think about so in all I feel it was still worthwhile. As such I appreciate the time you spent highlighting where I was going wrong and most of all having the patience to mention holding off on asking for concrete advice until the cash is in hand and ready to burn considering how entire markets can be turned upside down overnight. So thank you and I'll see you guys again in about a month or so.

 

[Dangman]

Thee main reason I was looking at Ivy Bridge CPU's was from what I've read Haswells really only worth the upgrade at stock clocks and is fairly intolerant of OCing as far as desktops are concerned. Where as even with a moderate OCed Ivy Bridge can easily be on par cycle for cycle with a price thats currently on par. Granted due to the above caveat you mentioned by the time I actually order this situation might be completely different. Maybe Haswell will seem more attractive by then.

.......

Aye I'm aware but that choice was deliberate. From what I've read both here and elsewhere Haswells, at this point in time, appear to have a few issues that dampen my interest when compared to say Ivy Bridge. Mainly that they seem to have been more focused on the mobile market rather then desktops, so when compared to their immediate predecessor energy efficiency while idling is vastly improved under load that lead drops sharply. There's also the issues they seem to have regarding thermal output with even modest OC; coupled the fact that while at stock frequencies they do have somewhat more throughput then Ivy Bridge with the latter given a modest OC its easily able to keep pace. Not to mention its higher upper threshold even running on air cooling.

The thing is that you're only aiming for a 4.5Ghz at most. A Haswelll as 4.2Ghz (about the average OC of the Haswell CPUs) is roughly the same performance wise as that 4.5Ghz Ivy. So you would have to overclock past 4.5Ghz with that Ivy in order for the Ivy to actually outperform the Haswell. Not to mention that if you're willing overclock an Ivy, you're also more likely to overclock the Haswell.

I'll have to make a note of that. Mainly I shied away from SSD's as I heard they still had reliability issues and were overly expensive compared to a bog standard HDD but its been awhile since I last looked at them. Thus I'm very likely working off now quite dated information.

Yup, outdated informattion. SSDs, while not as cheap as HDDs per GB, have dropped significantly in price as well as increased significantly in quality and reliability over the past few years.

 

[Ws60]

The thing is that you're only aiming for a 4.5Ghz at most. A Haswelll as 4.2Ghz (about the average OC of the Haswell CPUs) is roughly the same performance wise as that 4.5Ghz Ivy. So you would have to overclock past 4.5Ghz with that Ivy in order for the Ivy to actually outperform the Haswell. Not to mention that if you're willing overclock an Ivy, you're also more likely to overclock the Haswell.

Thats a good point. Alright all else being equal it looks like Haswell it is then when it comes time. Unless AMD manages to pull off a stunner with their next chip but given their track record vs Intel lately I'm not going to be holding my breath. Though some healthy rivalry would at least be nice.

Yup, outdated informattion. SSDs, while not as cheap as HDDs per GB, have dropped significantly in price as well as increased significantly in quality and reliability over the past few years.

Noted. Not surprised I missed it though as I was more focused on getting a decent CPU/Board combination first so had yet to actually look until you pointed it out.