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Build advice - air cooling question

L

LittleMike

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
356
Hello all,

So can anyone suggest a good air cooler for this build?

P8Z68 Deluxe/Gen3
2700K CPU
16GB (4x4) G.Skill Ripjaw X 2133
1x Crucial M4 256GB SSD (for OS, apps, games)
1x eVGA GTX 570 Fermi 2.5GB
(1 or 2 mechanical drives for storage)
LG 12X Super Multi Blue optical drive
CM HAF X 942 case

I was thinking of the Thermalright Silver Arrow, but I'm not sure about clearance. Also the cutouts for the HAF X may not line up right. I'm not completely sold on the case, but leaning towards it. Everything else I'm pretty much sold on. So case/cooling combo? May upgrade to liquid in the future and may SLI, but not yet.

I use the machine for gaming, Photoshop, video editing, and 3D Rendering.
 
So how come you're not waiting for Ivy Bridge? It's about a month away.

Also, what made you choose that motherboard over this motherboard?:
$180 - Asus P8Z68-V/GEN3 Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard

Also note that Intel platforms do not benefit from RAM speeds higher than DDR3 1600. So you won't notice an iota of performance difference with DDR3 2133 RAM over DDR3 1600.

CPU cooler wise, I'd recommend the NH-D14 if you really want to go high-end on the cooler. But the Thermaltake Frio is a nice mid-range option as well.

Case wise, I'd recommend any of these cases over the HAF X:
$120 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$130 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$130 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-002OR Black Finish w/Orange Trim Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Antec P280 ATX Case
$140 - Antec Performance One Series P183 V3 ATX Case
$140 - Corsair Obsidian Series 550D ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$144 - Silverstone RV03B-WA ATX case
$160 - Corsair Graphite Series 600TM ATX Case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$166 - Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$178 - Silverstone RV02B-EW ATX case
$170 - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D ATX Case
$230 - Silverstone FT02B ATX Case
$270 - Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Full Tower ATX Case
 
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Friends don't let friends pay the premium for a 2700K.

Also why a 570 unless you already have one? Seems a strange / poor choice given how things are lined up price to performance right now.
 
^^ what he said. Buying a 2700K is akin to willingly bending over and grabbing your ankles while Intel takes you from behind. Get the 2600K and save yourself some money.

Also want to throw in the Fractal Arc Midi into the fray. They make some great cases and the midi has some serious potential for cooling.
 
Actually the price difference between the 2600K and 2700K is $15. Not as horrible as it was a few months ago but not that huge of a premium. With that said, I agree that it's better saving the $15.
 
Danny Bui - Actually I got the 2700K for $6 LESS than the 2600K. That's why I went with it. NewEgg has a deal going on for $319.99. The 2600K is currently selling for $324.99.

Why not go with a HAF X? It's got amazing reviews on 'Egg. Just curious. I'm not married to that case. As far as the mobo goes, It was a tossup between the Pro and Deluxe. USB ports was why I made the decision, though come to think of it, it's 6 vs 8 and I don't need powered eSATA. At least I don't think I do. I don't currently have anything that uses it.

silent-circuit - I have the rig that's in my sig. So the reason for the 570 is I don't currently have one. I was reading that the 570 with 2.5GB GDDR5 outperformed the 1.5GB 580's even though the clock is higher. The price is also a lot higher on the 580's. Show me an example of otherwise, and I'd go 580. The theme of this build is most bang for my buck, to be honest. Also the 570 came with an entry into the gear up, game for life contest. LOL :p

Pelo - I got the 2700K for LESS than the 2600K. Friends don't let friends buy lesser CPUs for more :p
 
Nothing wrong with the case but the price and the looks, imo :p Frankly, when it comes to choosing a case it's mostly personal preference and aesthetics with the rest being an afterthought so choose a case you'd want to stare at for the next few years.

The 570 2.5GB won't outperform the GTX580 in gaming but the extra vRAM will help with GPGPU depending on what programs you use for 3D rendering and video editing.

That's a great price on the 2700K :p
 
Fair enough on the CPU. As for the HAF X, while the case is good, I think it's overpriced considering that there are higher-quality cases out there for around that price range. My second reason for not recommending the HAF X is purely a personal aesthetic reason: It looks fugly to me. Now if you still want to go with the HAF X, the Noctua NH-D14 that I recommended earlier will fit just fine in the HAF X.

As for video card goes, the HD 7870 has been shown to outperform the GTX 570 1280MB by about 14% to 19%. A HD 7870 from a reputable company only costs $10 more than that eVGA GTX 570 2560MB. With that said, no one has done a comparison of the GTX 570 2560MB VS the HD 7870 so maybe the performance difference might be smaller.
 
Pelo - That NXT that Danny linked to with the black and orange looked hot, actually. Again, not sold on any case. I was just thinking air flow. I want to air cool with the possibility of WC later on down the road.

Also, I read (granted only one site) that the Silver Arrow outperformed the Noctua by about 3C and was less noisy. I do like Noctua, though. Would it fit in any of the above cases (the full tower ones)?

I do rendering with DAZ 4 Pro and Poser 2012, so that extra vRAM may make the difference. As far as the 7870 goes, I stand by nVidia. I have owned both and never ever had a problem with them, so brand loyalty is the reason for the 570/580 decision.
 
Oh, and Danny Bui - the X is only $30 more than the 932 and comes with a few improvements, just as an FYI because you did recommend the 932.
 
LittleMike said:
Oh, and Danny Bui - the X is only $30 more than the 932 and comes with a few improvements, just as an FYI because you did recommend the 932.
Click to expand...

At $130 to $140, I think the 932 is worth it despite what I think of its looks. However, the extra $40 (not seeing where you're getting the $30 from) for the X doesn't seem worth it to me. And like I said: There are better cases out there for around that price range.

LittleMike said:
Also, I read (granted only one site) that the Silver Arrow outperformed the Noctua by about 3C and was less noisy. I do like Noctua, though. Would it fit in any of the above cases (the full tower ones)?
Click to expand...
Another site shows different in regards to the CPU temp:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2568&page=5

The Noctua should fit all of the listed cases, except for the Antecs, just fine.
 
Okay, the V/GEN3 mobo has 2 less SATA 6 ports, so I would need to go with the PRO, but I think I can do that over the Deluxe.

Still torn about the RAM. I know lower CAS is always good, but I never heard that Intel chipsets can't handle over 1600 speed. You just need to OC the RAM, bump to 1.65v on the G.SKILLs and set XMP in the BIOS and you got 2100. I plan to OC the CPU to the 4.5GHz range anyway. So is that not good? Would I see better performance out of these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231516
 
Danny Bui said:
At $130 to $140, I think the 932 is worth it despite what I think of its looks. However, the extra $40 (not seeing where you're getting the $30 from) for the X doesn't seem worth it to me. And like I said: There are better cases out there for around that price range.


Another site shows different in regards to the CPU temp:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2568&page=5

The Noctua should fit all of the listed cases, except for the Antecs, just fine.
Click to expand...

The HAF X is $160 after MIR. The 932 is $140. That's only a $20 difference.

With that said, again, I'm not married to either one. I wrote off CoolerMaster years ago for terrible customer service, but these were so well rated, I had to rethink that. I have no problem continuing my personal ban on them ;)

I think I'll go with the Noctua. Seems a more reliable route.
 
LittleMike said:
Okay, the V/GEN3 mobo has 2 less SATA 6 ports, so I would need to go with the PRO, but I think I can do that over the Deluxe.

Still torn about the RAM. I know lower CAS is always good, but I never heard that Intel chipsets can't handle over 1600 speed. You just need to OC the RAM, bump to 1.65v on the G.SKILLs and set XMP in the BIOS and you got 2100. I plan to OC the CPU to the 4.5GHz range anyway. So is that not good? Would I see better performance out of these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231516
Click to expand...

No... that's not good at all. The Intel IMC can't handle ram voltages over 1.5v which is why you need ram that's rated 1.5v or lower. Secondly, enabling XMP to get higher speed doesn't really give you any benefits. Considering your CPU has an unlocked multiplier and Intel have given up FSB a long long time ago it doesn't really matter what ram you buy so long as it's rated 1.5v or lower and 1333 or 1600.
 
pelo said:
No... that's not good at all. The Intel IMC can't handle ram voltages over 1.5v which is why you need ram that's rated 1.5v or lower. Secondly, enabling XMP to get higher speed doesn't really give you any benefits. Considering your CPU has an unlocked multiplier and Intel have given up FSB a long long time ago it doesn't really matter what ram you buy so long as it's rated 1.5v or lower and 1333 or 1600.
Click to expand...

That's so weird that you say that because the reason I got that idea to begin with was because a bunch of reviewers on the RAM said that's exactly what they did. I thought the IMC didn't actually support 1333 and that even 1600 is dreamed up by AMD. That's what I was lead to believe from the link that Danny Bui posted above.

*shrug* So not even 1866? 1600 is max?
 
That RAM is rated at 1.5v, but it's way over priced. You shouldn't pay more than about $85 for a 16GB kit of RAM.

Running SB at 1600 can be tricky, just search the forums for people that have tried it. Much easier to run it at 1333, then overclock it with the multiplier. CAS timings have zero real world performance differences. You wont notice a thing.
 
Technically it's 1333mhz max for Sandy Bridge as that's as far as the IMC will go and anything past that is XMP. There really is no real discernible benefit in buying any ram faster than that. In fact you'll probably get more from buying more ram than you would in spending for the faster heatspreader stuff.

Also you *must* buy ram rated 1.5v or lower otherwise you will damage your processor.
 
I do recommend buying DDR3 1600 even for SB, simply because IB runs on 1600. Much easier to down clock 1600 than overclock 1333 in the event you might upgrade later.
 
Skillz said:
That RAM is rated at 1.5v, but it's way over priced. You shouldn't pay more than about $85 for a 16GB kit of RAM.

Running SB at 1600 can be tricky, just search the forums for people that have tried it. Much easier to run it at 1333, then overclock it with the multiplier. CAS timings have zero real world performance differences. You wont notice a thing.
Click to expand...

I got that from the QVL for the ASUS board. Any suggestions? I've used Crucial and Kingston in the past.
 
LittleMike said:
Okay, the V/GEN3 mobo has 2 less SATA 6 ports, so I would need to go with the PRO, but I think I can do that over the Deluxe.
Click to expand...
Cool.
LittleMike said:
I think I'll go with the Noctua. Seems a more reliable route.
Click to expand...
Good choice.
LittleMike said:
The HAF X is $160 after MIR. The 932 is $140. That's only a $20 difference.
Click to expand...
I don't factor in MIR until I actually recieve them. So still $40 to me.
LittleMike said:
With that said, again, I'm not married to either one. I wrote off CoolerMaster years ago for terrible customer service, but these were so well rated, I had to rethink that. I have no problem continuing my personal ban on them ;)
Click to expand...
LOL! Fair enough.

As for the RAM: pelo is pretty much correct. Though to fill in some gaps: The G.Skill 16GB RAM you linked are not worth it at all considering that you can get two of these sets for $94 total:
$47 - G.Skill Ripjaws Series F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

The lower latency doesn't provide a large enough performance difference to justify the extra $56.
 
Danny Bui said:
Cool.

Good choice.

I don't factor in MIR until I actually recieve them. So still $40 to me.

LOL! Fair enough.

As for the RAM: pelo is pretty much correct. Though to fill in some gaps: The G.Skill 16GB RAM you linked are not worth it at all considering that you can get two of these sets for $94 total:
$47 - G.Skill Ripjaws Series F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

The lower latency doesn't provide a large enough performance difference to justify the extra $56.
Click to expand...

And being that SB is dual channel not quad channel, I can do two pairs of that. Excellent!

Hrmm... unfortunately if I do that, it seems they won't fit with the Noctua according to this reviewer:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ckTab=true&Keywords=(keywords)#scrollFullInfo

First one from that link (I clicked on 3 eggs) Unless there are different sized ripjaws? Never used G.SKILL, so I really don't know.

*EDIT* My bad - I'm looking at the NH-C14. You said the NH-D14, right?
 
Danny Bui said:
Correct. But to answer your question anyway: There are different sized RipJaws. If you want RAM that has lower heatsinks, take a look at these RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231546
$47 - G.Skill Sniper F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
Click to expand...

I think I like the Sniper series for 2 bucks more a pair. That ARES line is fugly. LOL

Okay, so 2 pairs of those, and they are low profile. I think it's about time I compile a parts list again.
 
2700K (already bought)
G.SKILL Sniper series 4x4GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231416
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131790
Noctua NH-D14 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018
LG Black 12X Super Multi Blue http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136241
eVGA GTX 570 2.5GB Fermi http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130687
(still not sure if the 580 would be better)
Crucial M4 256GB SSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148449

Okay, what's left? I need a case. I may need a 2.5 to 3.5" adapter depending on the case.

For a power supply, I have a 2008 Corsair 1000 watter (HX series?) that was never opened. Would that be sufficient?
 
...and don't forget to fold for team 33 when you get it together!!!

edit
Build looks okay to me. That PSU should be sufficient, even though it's the older design but at 1000W it'll handle your setup fine.
 
Skillz said:
...and don't forget to fold for team 33 when you get it together!!!

edit
Build looks okay to me. That PSU should be sufficient, even though it's the older design but at 1000W it'll handle your setup fine.
Click to expand...

Haha, I think this rig will be able to handle folding. I do leave my machine on 24/7. I just might start doing that :p Haha

Oh, mechanical drive - The latest Hitachis use the 667GB platters right? WD are still using 500GB platters if I'm not mistaken. What about Samsung? Those Spinright F1's were awesome, but I may retire the existing rig to my youngest brother, so I need a storage drive (and the case that I can't decide on :p haha)
 
The Hitachi drives are the fastest drives out.

$136.28 - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630

It's faster than the old Samsung F1s.
 
Skillz said:
The Hitachi drives are the fastest drives out.

$136.28 - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630

It's faster than the old Samsung F1s.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That was EXACTLY what I was looking for.

Now to decide on a case, and this build is in the books! You guys rock. Thank you for the assistance.
 
Why 570 / 580 when everything else is pretty much top end? Pick up a 680. Not that much more, much more performance.

EDIT: Re-read. If you want bang for buck, a used 6950 2GB is king. Runs about $200-225 under warranty. If you're scared of used cards, a 480 is king if you can handle the noise / heat as they've been on major firesale lately. I don't really understand where the 570 fits. Given how many people are dumping 7970s for 680s, I'd be watching the used prices on those too.

EDIT2: Or used 570. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1681925

EDIT3: Or used 580 with badass HSF: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1679224

EDIT4: 5870 is still no slouch and dirt cheap: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1682176

Lots of options.
 
Last edited:
silent-circuit said:
Why 570 / 580 when everything else is pretty much top end? Pick up a 680. Not that much more, much more performance.

EDIT: Re-read. If you want bang for buck, a used 6950 2GB is king. Runs about $200-225 under warranty. If you're scared of used cards, a 480 is king if you can handle the noise / heat as they've been on major firesale lately. I don't really understand where the 570 fits. Given how many people are dumping 7970s for 680s, I'd be watching the used prices on those too.

EDIT2: Or used 570. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1681925

EDIT3: Or used 580 with badass HSF: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1679224

EDIT4: 5870 is still no slouch and dirt cheap: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1682176

Lots of options.
Click to expand...

Because a 680 is $200 more? I don't see how that falls into the bang for your buck category. Plus it's PCI-e 3.0 which SB doesn't support. It would be a total waste of the card.

*EDIT* I'm buying all new, what's the point of one used component out of the whole build? The 680 just came out. The drivers aren't even matured yet. Never mind the fact that whenever a component is brand new it's never the best bang for your buck, especially video cards (though CPUs have a bigger markup). I would hardly call this build top of the line. It's a "generation" behind. Z68 is supplanted by 2011 and next month Z77. It's in that happy middle ground where components are at reasonable prices. Plus the issue with SB and PCI-e 3.0. I would consider doing a Step-Up to maybe a 580, but I can't see a 680 giving me any benefit in this build at the release price.
 
Last edited:
You are wrong. You do not need PCIe 3.0 to fully make use of a Radeon 7xxx or a GTX 6xx series card. The real world performance difference is not much.
 
azeem40 said:
You are wrong. You do not need PCIe 3.0 to fully make use of a Radeon 7xxx or a GTX 6xx series card. The real world performance difference is not much.
Click to expand...

azeem40, you misunderstood what I said. I'm actually agreeing with you. I said it would be a waste to get a 680 and not have the extra pipelines that PCIe 3.0 provide. The 680 would still work, but only at the max of PCIe 2.0. The point being that for $150-$200 less, I can get a card (the 570) that's better suited for this build.

Besides, if I go with a 570 now, I have 90 days to step up to a 680 if the "real" (non-reference versions) come out within that time. Right now only the reference cards are available and totally not worth it in my opinion.
 
LittleMike said:
I said it would be a waste to get a 680 and not have the extra pipelines that PCIe 3.0 provide. The 680 would still work, but only at the max of PCIe 2.0.
Click to expand...

There is zero performance improvement for any current video card moving from PCIe 2.0 to 3.0. This includes the 680. Yes, it is PCIe 3.0 compatible, but it does not move anywhere near enough data to saturate 16 (or in many cases even 8) lanes in PCIe 2.0 mode, so the move to 3.0 gets you zero performance improvement.

Why get only one used component? Video cards depreciate faster than other components, mostly. You could save $75-100 easily, or get a faster card for a similar price. Further, it'd still be under warranty... so who cares if it's new or used, again?

Your other arguments make sense, but these fail entirely.
 
silent-circuit said:
There is zero performance improvement for any current video card moving from PCIe 2.0 to 3.0. This includes the 680. Yes, it is PCIe 3.0 compatible, but it does not move anywhere near enough data to saturate 16 (or in many cases even 8) lanes in PCIe 2.0 mode, so the move to 3.0 gets you zero performance improvement.

Why get only one used component? Video cards depreciate faster than other components, mostly. You could save $75-100 easily, or get a faster card for a similar price. Further, it'd still be under warranty... so who cares if it's new or used, again?

Your other arguments make sense, but these fail entirely.
Click to expand...

Wow, what's with the rude attitude?

First of all, considering that only the REFERENCE cards have been released, you have no idea whether or not the later 680's will utilize more bandwidth than PCIe 2.0 (500MB.) Coupled with that, the drivers, when they are more mature, may also allow for more bandwidth usage.

Secondly, you can't argue with an opinion. If I am spending $1400 in equipment, I would rather it be all new. To save maybe $75 when I'm already spending significantly more than that on a used component does not make sense to me. I would rather have all new parts. How do I know what kind of abuse a used item got? Warranty or not, if they ran their video card at 90C all the time because they had terrible heat management, the life of that card will be diminished. Plus there is the hassle of having to wait for a new card if I do have to warranty it. If I buy new, there is a huge chance I will not have to deal with that at all. Much more than the $75 is worth to me. But again, this is my opinion and you can't tell me how I feel. If you disagree, that's fine, you are entitled, but that's YOUR opinion, not mine.

So again, I dispute your arguments. You've already said the other points I made are valid and those are enough for me to buy new versus used even ignoring the above.
 
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