Build a new home VM host

[yankees9920]

I am a college student and I recently built a new desktop and now have an extra computer lying around:

Asus A8n SLI Deluxe
AMD X2 4200+
2GB Ram

This extra computer has gotten me interested in experimenting with virtual machines. I am currently running Win 7 host with a WHS VM guest using VMWare Server 2. I am looking to give the VMs direct disk access but am not comfortable using the weird workaround to make it work in VMware Server and I don't want to keep all my data in VMDK files.

Unfortunately my CPU/mobo socket (socket 939) do not support AMD-V (so I cannot use esxi with device passthrough or hyper-v) and I am considering trying to sell this computer and build a new system.

I am looking to build a system that is energy efficient since it will be on 24/7 and I will be graduating and moving off campus where I will have to pay for my own electricity for once. WHS in a VM is my priority and am planning it run it on either esxi or Hyper-V as well as probably a Win 7 VM and 1 ubuntu vm. It must be quiet as well, since it will be living under my bed for the next year or so. I also I would like it to be upgradeable so I can run more VMs if I so choose. Looking to spend $200-400 (not including storage), but the lower the better.

One thought I had was to make it compatible (AM3, DDR2) with my new desktop (AMD Phenom II x4 965, 4GB DDR3 ram) so that if I need to upgrade the VM machine in the future, I can stick in my x4 965 (perhaps my ram too) and use the money upgrade my main rig instead. I priced out a sample system on newegg with MSI 760GM-E51, AMD Athlon II X2 240 Regor 2.8GHz, 4GB ram for $232.

The other thought was to get an older server off ebay or when dell has some on sale/coupon. I don't know much about server hardware so I am not sure what would be good and I don't know if any are quiet/low power.
Many of the servers seem to have hot swap SCSI hard drives, would I be able to use my SATA drives in those?

What are your thoughts?

 

[archivalbackup]

Asus A8n SLI Deluxe
AMD X2 4200+
2GB Ram

Ha! just recycled a few of my old computers that were this exactly.

I don't want to keep all my data in VMDK files.

Why not? You are limiting yourself to RDMs, which is going to be tough on a budget.

Unfortunately my CPU/mobo socket (socket 939) do not support AMD-V (so I cannot use esxi with device passthrough or hyper-v)

I am not sure you quite understand device pass-through ... it is for PCI(e) devices, not things like hard drives.

and I am considering trying to sell this computer and build a new system.

if you can I would do it and get a VT/AMD-V supported processor.

 

[yankees9920]

Ha! just recycled a few of my old computers that were this exactly.

It worked well for me. Although its disappointing I spent $2k on the system 5 years ago.

Why not? You are limiting yourself to RDMs, which is going to be tough on a budget.

I want to be able to give Windows Home Server direct access to the disks since the main feature of WHS is how it manages the hard drives and I hear very large vmdk files are not as reliable and may not be able to go over 1-2 TB (I forget). And also to improve I/O performance (I am currently seeing very slow speeds)

I am not sure you quite understand device pass-through ... it is for PCI(e) devices, not things like hard drives.

I think I meant RDM rather then pass through. I believe MS and VMWare have different names for this feature.

if you can I would do it and get a VT/AMD-V supported processor.

Socket 939 does not support virtualization, so it requires getting a new cpu and motherboard - basically a new computer.

 

[lopoetve]

VMDKs won't go over 2TB, but it doesn't matter - you can't give local disks to ESXi as RDMs anyway. Reliability is not an issue with a VMDK, speed is no different either - you're slow because you're on SATA disks (probably one) with no BBWC and no real raid controller. A SATA disk @ 7200 RPM is at absolute MOST 100-110 IOPS. That's all she wrote right there.

Best bet? Buy a used Dell with a PERC card, stick the battery in it, and feed it as many spindles as you can.

 

[yankees9920]

VMDKs won't go over 2TB, but it doesn't matter - you can't give local disks to ESXi as RDMs anyway

That is why my ultimate goal is to use Hyper-V

A SATA disk @ 7200 RPM is at absolute MOST 100-110 IOPS.

Is that in line with my transfer speeds of 15-30 MB/s over gigabit network?

Best bet? Buy a used Dell with a PERC card, stick the battery in it, and feed it as many spindles as you can.

Do I really need an expensive controller if I don't even need to run raid? PS. whats a battery?
Also, are you talking about buying a desktop or server?

 

[Dangman]

Is that in line with my transfer speeds of 15-30 MB/s over gigabit network?

Hmm doesn't sound right. That could be network related. There are some gigabit equipment that don't support jumbo frames or are just plain slow. So please list out your network hardware and how it's setup.

PS. whats a battery?

Batter = Battery Backup Unit. It does the following:

These batteries power the card and the RAM in case of system power loss. It lets the card clear out the RAM to prevent data loss/corruption before shutting down the HD.

Also, are you talking about buying a desktop or server?

He's talking about a Dell server.

 

[lopoetve]

the BBWC also enables faster writes since they don't have to be committed to disk before being acknowledged.


And if you're not going to run RAID, you're going to find things mighty slow at times with more than a VM or two.

 

[yankees9920]

And if you're not going to run RAID, you're going to find things mighty slow at times with more than a VM or two.

The main purpose of this machine is to host WHS. That being said, having entire machines running WHS is wasteful since it is very lightweight.
I often do some experimenting with other OSes and maybe some virtual networking/learning about domains, but nothing I/O intensive (no databases and such) so correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I could get away without raid. That way I can have 3 or so disks for WHS and then 1 or 2 disks for my VMs (unless I did a raid 0 array on that)

 

[archivalbackup]

That is why my ultimate goal is to use Hyper-V


Is that in line with my transfer speeds of 15-30 MB/s over gigabit network?

That was what I was getting at about not being cheap ... you would need to start feeding in LUNS from a NAS to the host OS, or present multiple iSCSI/NFS RDM's then setup as a dynamic disk inside the host.

 

[nessus]

I'm currently running a first generation x3 2.1 Ghz AMD Athlon with 8 GB of RAM and 6 VMs (HP a6430f desktop). One of my VMs is a WHS. My WHS disks are direct mapped in 2 multiplex connected SATA drive bays with 4 slots each. (1 1 TB, 2 1.5 TB, and 2 2TB drive)

Not exactly the fastest setup, but I'm getting 40-50 MB sec transfer rates for large data transfers (~100 GB+). I had real issues with data transfers when I first upgraded my host to 2k8 R2. The drivers for my Gige card automatically turned on the large TCP offload support, which wasn't working right. Dropped my throughput a bunch. Turned that off, and my throughput went back to its normal level.

I just ordered a case, power supply, MB, and processor from Newegg today to upgrade my host a bit.

 

[yankees9920]

I'm currently running a first generation x3 2.1 Ghz AMD Athlon with 8 GB of RAM and 6 VMs (HP a6430f desktop).

What software/hypervisor are you using for the virtualization? What other VMs are you running on there?

My WHS disks are direct mapped in 2 multiplex connected SATA drive bays with 4 slots each. (1 1 TB, 2 1.5 TB, and 2 2TB drive)

Can you explain what this means.

Would I be better off with something like a Dell T110 for $350 with a Intel® Xeon® X3430 and 4GB ram or getting one of these combos from microcenter with a AMD® Athlon™ II X2 250 or AMD® Athlon™ II X4 630 with a Biostar A760G M2+ mATX Motherboard?

 

[nessus]

My 2008 R2 Hyper-V server is currently hosting the following:
(The server is an HP desktop box with one 640 GB drive internal, 1 TB drive internal, and 2 1TB, 2 1.5 TB, and 3 2TB drives in 2 external 4 bay SATA enclosures. Powered by 3 core 2.1 GHZ Athlon 64 processor, with 8 GB of RAM)

Windows Home Server - 1002 MB RAM, raw mapping (drives are used directly from the external enclosures, no virtual hard disk files, these are multiplexed connections in that all 4 drives in each external SATA bay are connected though a single SATA port and cable) 1 1.5 TB drive, and 3 2 TB drives.

Windows 2008 R2 DC - 802 MB RAM, 30 GB VHD on 640 GB intenal drive which has host OS (AD/DNS/DHCP)

Windows Vista VM of my employers standard laptop image (I work from home, but mostly on another companies network over VPN using a VM on my main workstation that I P2Vd from their approved laptop image, I use this image VPN'd into my companies network for time and project tracking stuff) - 1500 MB, 30 GB VHD on the internal 1 TB drive

Windows 2008 R2 server - 1024 MB using a 30 GB VHD on the 640 GB drive. Runs as my VPN/RDP gateway and mail server running hmailserver. Also my Echoware server for providing point to point remote control sessions for relatives.

Windows 2008 R2 server - 1002 MB, using 1 30 GB VHD file, and 1 20 GB VHD file on the 640 GB drive. Web/FTP server. My wife is a graphic artist and uses the FTP server to transfer files back and forth with clients. Houses her main web site and several demo sites as well as my site for doing image hosting for forum posts and such.

Windows Vail Server - 1002 MB. 160 GB VHD and 1 300 GB VHD on the internal 1 TB drive. Running the beta version of the next version of Windows home server. Haven't played with it much yet.


If 8 GB is enough RAM to host whatever you want to play with, I'd go for the Microcenter deal with the quad core CPU and save a few bucks.

 

[pjkenned]

I would totally agree on the quad core CPU. If you can swing it, get either an Intel i5-750 or (and better) X3430 + 8GB of ram. If you are just running NAS systems and other low CPU utilization items, even a Clarkdale CPU will be fine and those things sip power.

Also, I run both WHS and WHS V2 Vail on Hyper-V along with several other NAS OSes. You can pass the disks (or the raid volumes) to Hyper-V very easily by installing the disk then marking it as offline in disk management. Then you don't have to worry about containers.

 

[sabregen]

Also, I run both WHS and WHS V2 Vail on Hyper-V along with several other NAS OSes. You can pass the disks (or the raid volumes) to Hyper-V very easily by installing the disk then marking it as offline in disk management. Then you don't have to worry about containers.

This is the ONE thing that I wish could be done with VMWare workstation, that you cannot do. Workstation does not provide disk passthrough that will work with WHS or the new Vail (WHS) Beta. It sees the disks, but completely tanks. And, unfortunately, Hyper-V isn't my cup of tea.