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Budget MMORPG Machine w/ SSD

R

Rattlin Bones

n00b
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
41
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12/28 UPDATE: New build/latest questions in post #16 here.
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I'd like to build my wife a modest gaming machine. She primarily plays MMORPGs and Sims 3 on her non-gaming laptop, which tends to be an exercise in frustration. She does not need to run cutting age games at max detail, however it would be good to build with an eye toward being able to run, or easily upgrading to run, future MMOs like SWTOR, The Secret World, and whatever else catches her eye. She surprises me at her gaming requests sometimes, but I don't see her ever, for example, being interested in the latest system taxing FPS.

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CANADIAN. :D Your Newegg etc. links are welcome and helpful, but I'll be unable to order from them directly. Will likely use NCIX.com or Newegg's Canadian affiliate.
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1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Modest/moderate gaming.

2) What's your budget?
As little as possible, without cutting corners. Let's say $800, but I'd be very happy to do it for less. On the other hand, I could try to scrounge more if it was absolutely required.

3) Which country do you live in?
Canada: Toronto (Richmond Hill), Ontario. Usually use NCIX for ordering online, but there's also Newegg's Canadian affiliate and TigerDirect. Local stores I've used are Infonec, Canada Computers, and PCVillage.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
Case, PSU, CPU, Mobo, SSD (no HDD), OS

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
RAM (maybe), GPU (if not going onboard), DVD-ROM, monitor, mouse/keyboard

6) Will you be overclocking?
No. Absolutely not.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
20.1", 1680x1050. Wife will be getting my current monitor as a hand-me-down.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As early as Friday 12/16/2011; as soon as possible.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.
Nothing specific that I'm aware of unless we decide to go onboard video for now or decide to recycle RAM and/or DVD-ROM.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
No. I presume we'll be going Windows 7 Home Premium unless someone can convince me Professional is required.


Thoughts on specific components:

Mobo/CPU: I've been out of the game too long, no clue what brand and socket is best for value and upgradability these days. I have no brand loyalty. Silly question, but do mobos still have IDE connections? The DVD-ROM to be recycled would need one.

GPU: She can have my 8800 GS as a hand-me-down and we'll upgrade at tax time, or we can go with onboard if it would actually be better value/performance wise, with an eye toward upgrading to a discrete GPU in the future.

RAM: I have 8GB in my current machine which I don't think I use to its full potential, and I'd be happy to put 4GB of it in my wife's machine. It's DDR3 PC3-8500U or 10700U. But RAM is crazy cheap these days, isn't it? So may not be a big deal.

SSD: OS + MMORPG/games; I'm thinking 120 or 160 GB SSD, and we'll add a HDD later. For now, she'll just use her laptop for her media storage.


Thanks for your help! :)
 
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Many mobos don't have IDE ports these days. Especially newer Intel mobos. So you may have to get a new DVD burner.

As for the RAM, what RAM do you have? Certain RAM can't be used with Intel CPUs due to the RAM being rated above 1.5V.


What GPU were you planning on reusing?
 
That's fine; I can pick up any new DVD-ROM unless there's one in particular you suggest.

RAM, per SiSoft: OCZ OCZ3G1333LV2G 2GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-8500U DDR3-1066 (7-7-7-16 4-26-8-4)
Corsair CM3X2G1333C9 2GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-10700U DDR3-1334 (9-9-9-24 5-34-10-5)

2x2GB of each.

GPU: 8800 GS 384MB. Sounds like it may be suffering with that RAM, but it's still serving me well. I'm about to upgrade myself, but it even runs Skyrim decently so I figure it would suit my wife well until she needed to upgrade for a newer title. Unless the onboard stuff is better.
 
Well you're definitely replacing that RAM: Both RAM are rated above 1.5V and so makes them poor choices for an Intel based setup.

Premlim build:
$137 - Intel Core i3-2100
$115 - Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard
$39 - Kingston ValueRAM 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$240 - Samsung 830 128GB SSD
$25 - Samsung SH-222BB SATA DVD Burner
$75 - Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-520 520W PSU
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$120 - Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit OEM
---
Total $801 plus tax and shipping

I included a new DVD burner because Intel mobos nowadays don't support IDE port anymore.
 
There doesn't seem to be a reason for a Z68 board when a cheaper (~$60 range) H61 board would work just as well, seeing as the OP is not overclocking at all.
If you downgrade the SSD to a OCZ model (~$120) that should free up budget for an i5, which is way more future-proof than an i3.
 
bwang said:
There doesn't seem to be a reason for a Z68 board when a cheaper (~$60 range) H61 board would work just as well, seeing as the OP is not overclocking at all..
Click to expand...
If the OP was fine with having only two RAM slots, maybe the H61 would work. But I generally don't recommend motherboards with only two RAM slots in them as I believe it's a bit short-sighted to get such a mobo.

With that said, some money can be saved if the OP is fine with some SATA 6.0GB/s performance loss:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138308

Should save about $25 CAD
bwang said:
If you downgrade the SSD to a OCZ model (~$120) that should free up budget for an i5, which is way more future-proof than an i3.
Click to expand...

I would not go with an OCZ SSD due to their past history of poor customer support and the fact that their current SSDs are Sandforced based and therefore have that random BSOD issue.
 
Have you looked into the AMD Llano series. I built one for my mom last Sept and it is a strong little system. I know my daughters have played both Wow and DDO on the system. I know in DDO the settings are on High with all shadows turned off and the computer is avg around 50 fps. The resolution is set at 1600 x 1200.

Entry level motherboard.
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=64589&vpn=GA-A55M-DS2&manufacture=Gigabyte

Midrange APU
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=61953&vpn=AD3650WNGXBOX&manufacture=AMD

I used this APU for my moms computer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103942
 
Thanks for the recommendations so far, guys!

A few questions/comments:

1. So are we talking about using the onboard video or 8800 GS GPU? Which is better?

2. $240 seems like a big chunk of change for the SSD. Though I totally defer to your knowledge, that's why I posted here. How severe are these Sandforce BSOD problems, and can they be dealt with? Is there just always a risk of randomly crashing, or is data loss/HD death/etc. a risk?

3. Two RAM slots isn't a big deal IMO, though I defer to your opinions. By the time RAM needs to be upgraded, I'm thinking we'd just do a full upgrade. I guess that's kind of contrary to what I said earlier about upgradability being key, but it's probably more the GPU I want to be able to upgrade (as needed) over its life cycle. Having the option to upgrade the CPU seems like a great idea, but by the time we do I expect there will be a newer must-have socket and/or motherboard features out.
 
Rattlin Bones said:
1. So are we talking about using the onboard video or 8800 GS GPU? Which is better?
Click to expand...
8800GS would be better.
Rattlin Bones said:
2. $240 seems like a big chunk of change for the SSD. Though I totally defer to your knowledge, that's why I posted here. How severe are these Sandforce BSOD problems, and can they be dealt with? Is there just always a risk of randomly crashing, or is data loss/HD death/etc. a risk?
Click to expand...
Always a risk of random BSODs and therefore higher chance of data loss. If you still want to chance it with a Sandforce based SSD, at least don't go with OCZ due to their poor history of customer support. I'd probably go with the Corsair Force GT if I had to recommend a Sandforce.

Rattlin Bones said:
3. Two RAM slots isn't a big deal IMO, though I defer to your opinions. By the time RAM needs to be upgraded, I'm thinking we'd just do a full upgrade. I guess that's kind of contrary to what I said earlier about upgradability being key, but it's probably more the GPU I want to be able to upgrade (as needed) over its life cycle. Having the option to upgrade the CPU seems like a great idea, but by the time we do I expect there will be a newer must-have socket and/or motherboard features out.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Go for a MSI, Biostar, Asus or Gigabyte H61 mobo then.
 
Danny Bui said:
Always a risk of random BSODs and therefore higher chance of data loss. If you still want to chance it with a Sandforce based SSD, at least don't go with OCZ due to their poor history of customer support. I'd probably go with the Corsair Force GT if I had to recommend a Sandforce.
Click to expand...
What is the post-Sandforce generation called, and is there an easy way to tell from posted specs on sites whether a particular SSD is Sandforce?

Is the Samsung you recommended pretty much starting price point for this generation of SSDs of that size? I do want to get this system right the first time; don't want to frustrate my wife with the possibility of random crashes. So if it's strongly advised I'm leaning toward budgeting for it.

Thanks as always. :)
 
Currently, all SSDs using the Sandforce controller are affected. The ones that we often recommend here -- the Intel 320 (SATA 3Gb/s)/510 (SATA 6Gb/s), the Samsung 830, and the Crucial C300/M4 -- don't use Sandforce controllers.
 
What do you think the performance difference is going to be between the 3Gb/s and 6Gb/s SSDs? Is that going to translate into a noticeable difference running the OS and playing games?
 
Rattlin Bones said:
What do you think the performance difference is going to be between the 3Gb/s and 6Gb/s SSDs? Is that going to translate into a noticeable difference running the OS and playing games?
Click to expand...

For some people, the difference is negligible. For others, the difference is noticeable.
 
1. Getting close to order time! Had some follow up questions on PSU; NCIX has posted the new weekly sales, and I wondered if Danny's original recommendation is still best.

Corsair Builder Series CMPSU-500CXV2 500W ($50)
Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W 24PIN ATX 12V V2.2 80PLUS Modular ($55)
Antec High Current Gamer 520W 40A 24PIN ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus Bronze ($60) (Danny's original recommendation, now on sale, to boot.)

2. Does the i3 2100 come with pre-applied thermal interface material, or do I need to pick up a tube of Arctic Silver? Bear in mind no overclocking to be done.

3. A strong preference on any one of these cases?
Bitfenix Merc Alpha Steel ($35)
Coolermaster Elite 310 ($46)
NZXT Gamma ($50)
Zalman Z9 Plus ($55)

If other recommendations are far superior, I'll accept your wisdom. But these are some that my wife has expressed interest in design/aesthetics wise. (With the exception of the Bitfenix; thought I'd stick it in the mix because of the sale/some good reviews.) I may try to push Antec 300 ($58) or the HAF 912 on her if you decree them far superior.

4. The i3 2120 is only $5 more than the 2100. Is it preferable? 3.1 to 3.3 GHz for $5 seems to be a no-brainer.
 
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1) I'd still go for the Antec High Current Gamer since it's of significantly higher quality than the other two PSUs mentioned.

2) The HSF that comes with the Core i3 2100 and 2120 already has thermal paste applied. NO need to buy a 3rd party thermal paste unless you plan on removing and reseating the HSF a lot. Even if you are, still wouldn't recommend AS5 these days. Probably would recommend MX4.

3) I'd go with the Zalman out of all those choices.

4) Yes, go for the Core i3 2120.
 
First of all, my thanks for all your previous help! It's really been illuminating.

Secondly, due to a payroll mishap, I wasn't able to purchase the system two weeks ago. I'd love your opinion on what I've put together to order now, using updated sales. I've managed to keep it all on NCIX for simplicity's sake, but will definitely comparison shop before placing the order.

CPU: i3 2100 ($120)
MB: H61/67/Z68 MSI or Gigabyte; some options below, would like help deciding. ($80-$110)
PSU: XFX 450W Core Edition ($55; $35 AR)
GPU: 8800 GS reuse ($0)
RAM: 2x4GB @ 1.5V; some options below, would like help deciding. ($40 approx)
SSD : Crucial M4 Micron C400 128GB SATA3 ($200)
Optical: Samsung SH-S243D/BEBE 24X ($16)
Case: Zalman Z9 Plus ($61; $51 AR)
OS: Windows 7 64bit Home Premium ($90)

Total: $692 CAD + tax/shipping; not including $30+ MIRs, presuming most expensive MB option.


Unresolved decisions:

1) RAM - There are some kits presumably superior to Kingston Value on sale right now; I've narrowed it down to these two:

Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 Vengeance 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 1.5V ($40) - No rebate to fuss with, but some have complained about its height; think I'm okay with stock i3 cooling? Obviously I'm not overclocking at all, but why not get better RAM for cheaper?
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline Frostbyte PC3-12800 2X4GB DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24 1.5V ($43; $38 AR) - Only benefit off the bat I notice is the standard size.


2) Motherboard - Unlike my initial build, we're now using a SATA3 SSD, which is nice. Other than that, I have no special requirements; don't expect to ever upgrade to more RAM or more than one GPU. Stereo sound is enough; won't be the main multimedia PC. Would like to be able to use the CPU video in a pinch, but that's it.

MSI H61MA-E35 (B3) H61 mATX LGA1155 DDR3 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 SATA3 USB3 HDMI DVI VGA ($80) - SATA3 and USB3 for4 $80? Sounds good to me!

Gigabyte Z68M-D2H mATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 HDMI DVI CrossFireX SATA3 ($105) - No USB3. Has CF and 4 RAM slots, but I don't anticipate ever using those.

Gigabyte Z68P-DS3 ATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2PCI CrossFireX SATA3 HDMI ($110) - No USB3. Full ATX; CF, tons of slots for everything--but again, probably won't need that stuff. HDMI only, which I presume would mean I'm out of luck if I ever need to use the CPU video, as the monitor to be used is DVI. Do DVI>HDMI adapters exist? Still, a hassle regardless.

The Gigabyte H67MA ($115; $105 AR) seemed like it might be the best of all worlds, but it's shipping within 4-8 business days, and I don't want to wait.

For my uses, any reason to go with anything but the $80 MSI? How important do you think it is to have the Z68 chipset? Certainly open to other brands/models, but these are the most suitable I found on NCIX.


Thanks as always!
 
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1) If you're not planning on adding a 3rd party HSF, go for the Corsair.

2) I would not go with that MSI as there are virtually no reviews, user or professional or otherwise, of that mobo. So its quality, stability, and reliability are unknown. If you're willing to take a gamble, go for it though.

However I'd take a look at these other mobos instead:
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=61004&vpn=GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3&manufacture=Gigabyte&promoid=1301
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=62305&vpn=BOXDH67BLB3&manufacture=Intel
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=59097&vpn=H67MA-E45 (B3)&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar
 
Thanks Danny!

The MSI board you listed is backordered unfortunately, but the Gigabyte fits the bill. Now that I see it, I actually looked at that one, but dismissed the three GPU slots as massive overkill. Considering the price, though, it's right in my range, so why not?

Is there any reason you'd recommend the linked Intel over the Gigabyte?

And can better performance be expected out of Z68?
 
The Z68 really just offers new functionality such as the ability to use onboard graphics in conjunction with SSD caching, but it doesn't offer anything in the realm of better performance. They may prove to be more stable (some of the old P67 boards were plagued with issues), but it all depends on brand.
 
... But ignore the term "SSD caching" (in Tsuyoi's most recent comments). It describes the process in which the SSD is used as a swap disk supporting the HDD.

In your case, use the SSD as the primary drive.
 
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