Budget madness!

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
1. Gaming computer and laptop budget: $3000 USD

2. Desire to start a home lab with multi cluster nodes, managed network with 10Gbit SAN storage budget: $200 USD

I'm sorry, spending too much time on r/homelab.... interesting people...
 

Shockey

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
2,016
You thinking vmware or other cluster software?
What are the goals for the home lab?
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
You thinking vmware or other cluster software?
What are the goals for the home lab?
I was more of a statement of "oddity". People with these grandiose gaming setups want "a datacenter" that needs to be many times more powerful but don't want to pay anything for it.
 

NobleX13

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
3,317
I was more of a statement of "oddity". People with these grandiose gaming setups want "a datacenter" that needs to be many times more powerful but don't want to pay anything for it.
Those people should just turn on Hyper-V inside Windows 10 Pro and go at it. :)
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
Those people should just turn on Hyper-V inside Windows 10 Pro and go at it. :)
For some. But other want a rack, dual managed 10Gbit switches, 128 cores of compute power, 10Gbit SAN with SSD.... for $200.

(it's just funny... not that they can get what they want even on their "gamer" budget, but certainly not getting it for a couple of Benjamins)
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
19,226
Sorta like gamers who spend 3k on the system then pair it with a $100 1080p TN panel 24" 60hz monitor....
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
Sorta like gamers who spend 3k on the system then pair it with a $100 1080p TN panel 24" 60hz monitor....
Actually it's more like after purchasing their gaming system, then they want a 208" OLED panel or ultra laser setup .... for $100.
 

jlbenedict

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
1,353
LOL that subreddit has gone to $hit lately... it's a show now.. on who has more money than common sense..

I love the :

"Hey.. I just bought 4 loaded Dell R720's, with 128gb of ram each... but.. i don't know what to do with them.. can you help me out.. "
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
LOL that subreddit has gone to $hit lately... it's a show now.. on who has more money than common sense..

I love the :

"Hey.. I just bought 4 loaded Dell R720's, with 128gb of ram each... but.. i don't know what to do with them.. can you help me out.. "
Step 1, buy noise cancelling headphones.

Step 2, etc...
 

Ready4Dis

Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
780
1. Gaming computer and laptop budget: $3000 USD

2. Desire to start a home lab with multi cluster nodes, managed network with 10Gbit SAN storage budget: $200 USD

I'm sorry, spending too much time on r/homelab.... interesting people...
I mean, I bought my Dell R710 for $150 ( a few years ago)... And it was a learning tool. I upgraded the ram to 96GB (Thanks [H] forum) for cheap, threw an older 255GB SSD in, got 6 spinners from the forums and set them up in raid 10. I don't have 10gb Ethernet, but have recently been looking. I have like $250 into this thing total and it does what i want no issues (Plex, Minecraft server, development server, file share server, and a few other odds and ends for use and/or testing). Not sure why you think looking to save money for a hobby is wrong. If I planned to run this in a professional environment, sure I'd spend a few more coin on things. For my house as something the learn and play with, who cares if someone doesn't want to fork over $6000. PS. My gaming PC (itx) build (I do more development than gaming) cost me about $400, but I have 5 desktops, one for each of my family, so my budget is very spread out. Given that my server doesn't do anything a basic desktop couldn't handle, I don't feel it appropriate to spend that much on it. Your priorities are your own, go ahead and blow $15,000 on your server, doesn't bother me one bit, so why does someone not wanting to spend that much bother you?

PS, I am not on that subreddit, but wanted to give you an idea on my reasoning for trying to not break my bank.
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
I mean, I bought my Dell R710 for $150 ( a few years ago)... And it was a learning tool. I upgraded the ram to 96GB (Thanks [H] forum) for cheap, threw an older 255GB SSD in, got 6 spinners from the forums and set them up in raid 10. I don't have 10gb Ethernet, but have recently been looking. I have like $250 into this thing total and it does what i want no issues (Plex, Minecraft server, development server, file share server, and a few other odds and ends for use and/or testing). Not sure why you think looking to save money for a hobby is wrong. If I planned to run this in a professional environment, sure I'd spend a few more coin on things. For my house as something the learn and play with, who cares if someone doesn't want to fork over $6000. PS. My gaming PC (itx) build (I do more development than gaming) cost me about $400, but I have 5 desktops, one for each of my family, so my budget is very spread out. Given that my server doesn't do anything a basic desktop couldn't handle, I don't feel it appropriate to spend that much on it. Your priorities are your own, go ahead and blow $15,000 on your server, doesn't bother me one bit, so why does someone not wanting to spend that much bother you?

PS, I am not on that subreddit, but wanted to give you an idea on my reasoning for trying to not break my bank.
I think your really really really missed my point. You do not have a mega zillion dollar setup. Not even close. Now... if you have a 364TB SAN going to redundant controllers each with 10Gbit links to your redundant 48 port top of rack switches going to your redundant core (and that's just in rack #1)... and you got all of that for $200 USD... then yes, you have made your point.
 

jlbenedict

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
1,353
Did the whole rack server lab thing.... then after working on servers for the past 3 years in my current role.. i went through the "downsize" phase... Servers were cool and all.. for like a minute lol ...

Now i'm running 2 HP ProDesk 600's with 32gb ram each, 4th Gen i5 of some sort.. and a basic 4-bay Netgear NAS..
Still have the 48 port Netgear switch running, but it's about to go as well.. it's the loudest piece of the lab currently and I have no need for 48 ports no longer
 
  • Like
Reactions: cjcox
like this

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
I too launched my rack when I moved this last time. Had a fibre SAN, multiple storage units, switches, etc...

Now I just build virtual worlds on my shared desktop/server. Specs in the sig.
 

Ready4Dis

Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
780
I think your really really really missed my point. You do not have a mega zillion dollar setup. Not even close. Now... if you have a 364TB SAN going to redundant controllers each with 10Gbit links to your redundant 48 port top of rack switches going to your redundant core (and that's just in rack #1)... and you got all of that for $200 USD... then yes, you have made your point.
The point was not missed, I understand some expectations are unrealistic, but that doesn't mean I wasn't looking for as much as possible for as cheap as possible. I didn't expect to walk away with 10gbe for my $150 server, but that didn't mean I didn't try to find it. Sure expectations can be to high, but if you don't ask you'll for sure never get it.
As I said, I am not part of that sub Reddit, but can understand people looking for good deals, especially for those whose first foray into the server world (aka, they just don't know any better). If they're being unrealistic then people point out they either don't have the budget or are setting to high of expectations. The fact they want to spend little on a server but don't mind spending $ on a gaming machine just means they care more about one than the other.
 

kdh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
806
1. Gaming computer and laptop budget: $3000 USD

2. Desire to start a home lab with multi cluster nodes, managed network with 10Gbit SAN storage budget: $200 USD

I'm sorry, spending too much time on r/homelab.... interesting people...

1. is doable.

2. While "doable", its using a bunch of flea bay crap that no longer has support.

What exactly do you mean multinode clusters? What does that mean to you, and whats the use case.
 

kdh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
806
its 2020.. there is absolutely nothing sexy about running your own server rack in your home these days. If mean.. If you got a bunch of cheap used gear that your proud to show off to your non technical friends to give them the impression you are your own version of Neo? I mean cool and all.. But no serious professional IT person does racks in their house anymore. Serious guys use intel nucs with vmware loaded on them.
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
What exactly do you mean multinode clusters? What does that mean to you, and whats the use case.
It can mean whatever they mean, you know? It's just interesting to see how much money they spend on a gaming machine vs. their private full scale datacenter.
 

kdh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
806
It can mean whatever they mean, you know? It's just interesting to see how much money they spend on a gaming machine vs. their private full scale datacenter.
You can't say you are planning on building multinode cluster but then can't elaborate one what exactly that means and can't articulate the use case. That's why I asked what exactly does that mean to you? Hadoop, Elastic Search, or maybe some Kafka? Or even vm / container orchestration? Maybe some nginx reverse proxy load balancers? Your original post, number 2 said you wanted to do multinode clusters, home lab etc etc for sub 200$. It can't just mean whatever because there should be a use case. Just running some plex server doesn't count. I'm very much from the mind set of, "I have a problem to solve, and this is the budget I have to do it with". If you have no problem to solve, there is no budget to spend. Even if this stuff is just a hobby and you just want it because you want it? Totally OK. This hobby is very expensive, and nothing sucks more then spending a bunch of money on gear that will sit idle. I only feel like I get my moneys worth on the 3 boxes sitting in my house when all 3 are running 95% full blast all the time.
 

Ready4Dis

Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
780
It can mean whatever they mean, you know? It's just interesting to see how much money they spend on a gaming machine vs. their private full scale datacenter.
Yes, but most people that build a "datacenter" I their home are doing it to tinker. You can run stuff slowly and still learn... It's really hard to have fun gaming at 10FPS. I mean, people prioritize and are willing to sacrifice on some things and not others. I mean, the last car I bought I paid $250 and have been driving it for the last 8+ months but spent over $1k on computer parts in that same time frame. Someone else probably bought a brand new Tesla for $60k and bought a $150 chrome book. They aren't related, it is meaningless to compare. Who cares where people want to save/spend their money, not sure why it's such a big deal to you guys what others feel like spending their [H]are earned cash on. Good on you if you have the money to spend on a $3k gaming system and a $10k home server. Others don't have the luxury and want to skimp, so the skimp on the one they feel they don't care as much about, but still want to dabble.
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
Yes, but most people that build a "datacenter" I their home are doing it to tinker. You can run stuff slowly and still learn... It's really hard to have fun gaming at 10FPS. I mean, people prioritize and are willing to sacrifice on some things and not others. I mean, the last car I bought I paid $250 and have been driving it for the last 8+ months but spent over $1k on computer parts in that same time frame. Someone else probably bought a brand new Tesla for $60k and bought a $150 chrome book. They aren't related, it is meaningless to compare. Who cares where people want to save/spend their money, not sure why it's such a big deal to you guys what others feel like spending their [H]are earned cash on. Good on you if you have the money to spend on a $3k gaming system and a $10k home server. Others don't have the luxury and want to skimp, so the skimp on the one they feel they don't care as much about, but still want to dabble.
I think maybe many of you are missing my point. When I said $200 max, I wasn't kidding. Not $500, etc... You folks are thinking I'm shaming them for not spending tens of thousands of dollars (or more). In fact, I'm shaming them because they have set their sites so so so very low budget wise and their expectations so so so very high. And all that in light of spending tons of money on something they're going to completely destroy in a few years.
 

Ready4Dis

Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
780
I think maybe many of you are missing my point. When I said $200 max, I wasn't kidding. Not $500, etc... You folks are thinking I'm shaming them for not spending tens of thousands of dollars (or more). In fact, I'm shaming them because they have set their sites so so so very low budget wise and their expectations so so so very high. And all that in light of spending tons of money on something they're going to completely destroy in a few years.
I understood the point, but you're talking about people who are just trying to get into this stuff and have no clue about prices. Most gamers know how much $ a GPU costs for a certain performance level and know how cheap they can get 5+ year old stuff for. They incorrectly assume server parts that are old are going to be dirt cheap and are seriously ignorant on the subject. Either way they aren't looking to spend lots of money to learn about something they are curious about trying out. They already know they like gaming and are willing to spend $ to play. This idea that they're fine spending money on gaming but don't want to spend a lot on a server is my point of contention. If you would have just said they are unrealistic and ignorant about server costs, then I agree. If you say because they are willing to spend $ on a gaming box but don't want to spend a lot on a server, then that's their prerogative. I was just saying that making a correlation between the two is silly as they have different purposes. I do agree with you that there are plenty of people with unrealistic expectations, but I still find nothing wrong with trying to get into an interest as cheaply as possible.

Edit:. I type on my phone and noticed a few errors, please disregard my spelling mistakes as it's difficult on my phones touch keyboard.
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
I understood the point, but you're talking about people who are just trying to get into this stuff and have no clue about prices. Most gamers know how much $ a GPU costs for a certain performance level and know how cheap they can get 5+ year old stuff for. They incorrectly assume server parts that are old are going to be dirt cheap and are seriously ignorant on the subject. Either way they aren't looking to spend lots of money to learn about something they are curious about trying out. They already know they like gaming and are willing to spend $ to play. This idea that they're fine spending money on gaming but don't want to spend a lot on a server is my point of contention. If you would have just said they are unrealistic and ignorant about server costs, then I agree. If you say because they are willing to spend $ on a gaming box but don't want to spend a lot on a server, then that's their prerogative. I was just saying that making a correlation between the two is silly as they have different purposes. I do agree with you that there are plenty of people with unrealistic expectations, but I still find nothing wrong with trying to get into an interest as cheaply as possible.
I certainly don't have a problem with a bargain. It's just funny. "Give me the $2000 iPhone 13 please, and the $5 bluetooth ear buds."
 

blackmomba

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
189
I think maybe many of you are missing my point. When I said $200 max, I wasn't kidding. Not $500, etc... You folks are thinking I'm shaming them for not spending tens of thousands of dollars (or more). In fact, I'm shaming them because they have set their sites so so so very low budget wise and their expectations so so so very high. And all that in light of spending tons of money on something they're going to completely destroy in a few years.
What kind of unrealistic expectations are you seeing ?
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
What kind of unrealistic expectations are you seeing ?
Pretty random. I want a storage server that can go to 200TB, but for less than $300. I want a pair of 48 port 10Gbit switches, but for less than $400 total. Stuff like that. Some will find their fortune in their own company's "giveaways"... but .... sometimes that can cause it's own cascading set of problems. Sometimes to get the "high end" whatever, requires a bit more.... for example, "I got my 12 dual P4 servers setup, but it's too loud and too hot." "I tried to plug in the Equallogic, but it keeps throwing my circuit breaker."
 

kdh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
806
Pretty random. I want a storage server that can go to 200TB, but for less than $300. I want a pair of 48 port 10Gbit switches, but for less than $400 total. Stuff like that. Some will find their fortune in their own company's "giveaways"... but .... sometimes that can cause it's own cascading set of problems. Sometimes to get the "high end" whatever, requires a bit more.... for example, "I got my 12 dual P4 servers setup, but it's too loud and too hot." "I tried to plug in the Equallogic, but it keeps throwing my circuit breaker."
I think you need to reset your expectations on what you can do with the budgets you have in mind, and you also need to reset your expectations on how folks acquire gear from their company. 300$ for 200TBs of storage is fantasy. I'm on org number 4 in 20 years. The only "free" thing I ever got computer wise from any of my companies was an old intel p3 tower back in 2001. I totally get your point of reference to some extent. Yes, a few get lucky and get gear.. but I can tell you first hand that a lot of that gear is so old, the only way to get any support for it, including any kind of downloads for it is to pay for it. So.. its not "Free" anymore. Also, the folks that have access to a "free" equallogic array will want nothing to do with it outside of their production environment because they know the level of effort it will take to keep it online at home. Getting gear like that is super rare. Most companies that can afford that level of gear, are also also bound to SOX and PCI compliance. Giving that gear away to employees is a major risk. The org can not confirm the data was properly wiped from those frames so they would rather destroy it and write it off, vs risk having a major data leak.

Running 12 dual p4 servers or an equallogic array at home is purely for show off at this point in the game. Even if you got those 12 dual p4 servers for free? The amount you will spend in monthly power costs alone are unjustifiable. I can stand up 2 cheap thread ripper 2990wx boxes that will walk all over 12 dual p4 servers and will use way less power, much quieter, better features, easier to manage, better support for drivers, and can fit under my desk. I picked up a 4 bay synology nas a few weeks with drives for sub 750$ and it will walk all over any "Free" equallogic array given to someone.

everyone needs a hobby, and if standing up old gear in a rack in your garage makes you happy? Thats super cool and a great conversation starter. But even to learn? OK, learn what? Multi node clusters in what ever that means to you? Better off with a few modern home built towers or a couple of nucs under your desk running vmware.
 

Grimlakin

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
1,157
I don't want rack servers and storage at home.... why... the power bill alone is more than what I could do on Amazon or Google, or Windows Cloud to tinker. Now you have me wondering if a MSDN license comes with number of cloud servers to tinker with.... hummm...
 
  • Like
Reactions: kdh
like this

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
I think you need to reset your expectations on what you can do with the budgets you have in mind, and you also need to reset your expectations on how folks acquire gear from their company. 300$ for 200TBs of storage is fantasy. I'm on org number 4 in 20 years. The only "free" thing I ever got computer wise from any of my companies was an old intel p3 tower back in 2001. I totally get your point of reference to some extent. Yes, a few get lucky and get gear.. but I can tell you first hand that a lot of that gear is so old, the only way to get any support for it, including any kind of downloads for it is to pay for it. So.. its not "Free" anymore. Also, the folks that have access to a "free" equallogic array will want nothing to do with it outside of their production environment because they know the level of effort it will take to keep it online at home. Getting gear like that is super rare. Most companies that can afford that level of gear, are also also bound to SOX and PCI compliance. Giving that gear away to employees is a major risk. The org can not confirm the data was properly wiped from those frames so they would rather destroy it and write it off, vs risk having a major data leak.

Running 12 dual p4 servers or an equallogic array at home is purely for show off at this point in the game. Even if you got those 12 dual p4 servers for free? The amount you will spend in monthly power costs alone are unjustifiable. I can stand up 2 cheap thread ripper 2990wx boxes that will walk all over 12 dual p4 servers and will use way less power, much quieter, better features, easier to manage, better support for drivers, and can fit under my desk. I picked up a 4 bay synology nas a few weeks with drives for sub 750$ and it will walk all over any "Free" equallogic array given to someone.

everyone needs a hobby, and if standing up old gear in a rack in your garage makes you happy? Thats super cool and a great conversation starter. But even to learn? OK, learn what? Multi node clusters in what ever that means to you? Better off with a few modern home built towers or a couple of nucs under your desk running vmware.
Hmmm... welcome to r/homelab! (and it's not me, though I operate a homelab and even have operated a full FC SAN homelab with 3/4 rack, etc... in the past)
 

Shockey

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
2,016
I don't want rack servers and storage at home.... why... the power bill alone is more than what I could do on Amazon or Google, or Windows Cloud to tinker. Now you have me wondering if a MSDN license comes with number of cloud servers to tinker with.... hummm...
You can download 180 day trials for Server 2016 and 19 from microsoft.
 

kdh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
806
Hmmm... welcome to r/homelab! (and it's not me, though I operate a homelab and even have operated a full FC SAN homelab with 3/4 rack, etc... in the past)
What exactly are you or were you doing with your home lab? You've never really elaborated on what you are doing, much less your goals with it. your posts are vague. If you want to see what I'm doing, click on the link in my sig.. you can see my home hobby running my production code running on my production server.
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
What exactly are you or were you doing with your home lab? You've never really elaborated on what you are doing, much less your goals with it. your posts are vague. If you want to see what I'm doing, click on the link in my sig.. you can see my home hobby running my production code running on my production server.
yeah, I think many thought my post was some sort of plea for help. I was merely pointing out the disparity between other people's gaming systems and their homelabs with regards to budgeting.
 

jlbenedict

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
1,353
yeah, I think many thought my post was some sort of plea for help. I was merely pointing out the disparity between other people's gaming systems and their homelabs with regards to budgeting.
LOL... yeah.. I think some in here took your initial post seriously
wow...
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
LOL... yeah.. I think some in here took your initial post seriously
wow...
But you know, I am tempted to start a thread of homelab discussion, since there does seem to be interest in "showing off the lab".
 

kdh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
806
yeah, I think many thought my post was some sort of plea for help. I was merely pointing out the disparity between other people's gaming systems and their homelabs with regards to budgeting.
totally missed all that. Didn't get that from your posts. Now I get the direction and your thought process. I guess its depends on peoples priorities and budget. Depends on the hobby and the goal. Nothing wrong with a 10k gaming rig or a 10k home lab. Neither are right or wrong. Both are dictated by goals, priories, and budget.
 

schizrade

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
4,806
My lab consists of: 2 vsphere 6.7 hosts in a cluster, 4 host vsan cluster, bunch of various vms inside of all that... all inside Workstation 15 on my work desktop. I just remote in from home and do the testing/experimentation I need to do.

Ain't nobody got time for racks of shit. lol
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,570
My lab consists of: 2 vsphere 6.7 hosts in a cluster, 4 host vsan cluster, bunch of various vms inside of all that... all inside Workstation 15 on my work desktop. I just remote in from home and do the testing/experimentation I need to do.

Ain't nobody got time for racks of shit. lol
I agree and disagree. There's the whole "software side" of things... and indeed, we're sort of in the age of not dealing with a lot of hardware. But, there are still some hardware only devices out there (perhaps shrinking market though). Anyway, a "lab" is whatever you want it to be.

Oh, and see my other thread about posting the details of your lab(s)....
 
Top