Budget gaming PC advice

[Tudz]

Howdy,

Helping a mate put together a PC, primarily want it to be for gaming purposes (and other random crap, but any gaming PC will do anything else he needs to do without a worry).

I'll preface it by saying my biggest queries are on the CPU/mobo/GPU combo. The proposed system has an i3 4150 with a GTX760, that might be a bit of a mismatch, but since this is a budget system I figured the best thing to do is go with a fast hyperthreaded dual core than a more expensive and slower quad core then put the money saved in to the GPU. I didn't really want to push his budget further unless it was REALLY worth the upgrade.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming and general day to day home computing tasks
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Initial budget $600-800, but willing to pay slightly more if it makes a big difference (additional money will come out of his fund for buying new headphones, so anything over $800 means he'll be buying cheaper headphones). Taxes are always included in Australian sticker prices.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Australia, Melbourne.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Why is everything not a valid answer? lol, everything that goes in the box itself (not monitor, not keyboard, not mouse)
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Nup.
6) Will you be overclocking?
Nup.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1920x1080, can't remember size, probably 24"
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Next couple of weeks
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
USB 3, ummm, that's about it really. It's budget, so SLI and Crossfire support isn't really worth it.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Nup. Well, he has XP, but that sucks, lol.

Pricing is from MSY.
PSU: Corsair CX500 V3
$85

Mobo: MSI B85M-e45
$85

CPU: Intel i3-4150
$135

RAM: 8GB Kit 1600 Patriot-S
$82

GPU: 2GB GTX 760 Gainward
$260 (guessing there's a good chance this is out of stock as it's much cheaper than other GTX760's)

HDD: WD Blue 1TB
$64

Optical drive: SATA DVD RW Samsung
$18

Case: Antec USB3.0 X1-E or NSK-4100-U3 (depends on which aesthetic he prefers)
$66 or 67

Win 7 Home Premium
$106

Total: $837


So, what do you think?

 

[pcjunkie]

Looks pretty good...maybe a little cheaper mobo can get you a better hard drive? SSD if possible. You might not even need a CD/DVD RW anymore if you can install everything via a USB stick, Also, for what its worth if you really want as much performance as possible go with Win 8 64bit plus a 3rd party start menu program. Did you use pcpartpicker,dot,com to find the best prices?

 

[Tudz]

Looks pretty good...maybe a little cheaper mobo can get you a better hard drive? SSD if possible. You might not even need a CD/DVD RW anymore if you can install everything via a USB stick, Also, for what its worth if you really want as much performance as possible go with Win 8 64bit plus a 3rd party start menu program. Did you use pcpartpicker,dot,com to find the best prices?

I think pcpartpicker only has US stores? I'm in Australia.

One thing I haven't been able to figure out though, this is the first PC I'm building in a while, with the Haswell refresh (the 4150 is part of the Haswell refresh, yeah?) are they compatible with all B85 boards? On a couple of store websites they have suggested that it might need a BIOS update (which I won't be able to do because I don't have an older Haswell to do the update), but then googling around I can't find anyone warning against using B85's with the Haswell refresh which makes me think it should work fine out of the box?

As far as going cheaper on the mobo, I kind of went for the cheapest one that had 4 DIMM slots and gen3 PCI for the GPU, would it hurt to go for a gen2 PCI and only 2 DIMM slots to save $20-40? Still wouldn't buy you an SSD unfortunately.

EDIT: Just had a look and yeah, PCI gen 2 should be fine for the GTX760.

 

[pcjunkie]

I think pcpartpicker only has US stores? I'm in Australia.

One thing I haven't been able to figure out though, this is the first PC I'm building in a while, with the Haswell refresh (the 4150 is part of the Haswell refresh, yeah?) are they compatible with all B85 boards? On a couple of store websites they have suggested that it might need a BIOS update (which I won't be able to do because I don't have an older Haswell to do the update), but then googling around I can't find anyone warning against using B85's with the Haswell refresh which makes me think it should work fine out of the box?

As far as going cheaper on the mobo, I kind of went for the cheapest one that had 4 DIMM slots and gen3 PCI for the GPU, would it hurt to go for a gen2 PCI and only 2 DIMM slots to save $20-40? Still wouldn't buy you an SSD unfortunately.

EDIT: Just had a look and yeah, PCI gen 2 should be fine for the GTX760.

No overclocking so any stable pcie 2.0/3.0 motherboard with 4 mem slots would do you just fine. Your right about the compatibility though, you will need to check if the mobo version you get has an already installed updated bios for it. If not going SSD then I would see about getting a WD Black series hard drive for a little more. Good luck!

 

[Dangman]

I'll preface it by saying my biggest queries are on the CPU/mobo/GPU combo. The proposed system has an i3 4150 with a GTX760, that might be a bit of a mismatch, but since this is a budget system I figured the best thing to do is go with a fast hyperthreaded dual core than a more expensive and slower quad core then put the money saved in to the GPU.

It's largely dependent on the games your friend is playing and whether or not you're a long-term or short-term kind of person. If he's planning on playing heavily multi-threaded games like BF4 or Arma 3, he's better off in the long-run with the quad-core Core i5 and a weaker GPU that he will have to upgrade later on. It's far cheaper and easier to upgrade a video card than to upgrade a CPU.

So what games is he planning on playing?

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Why is everything not a valid answer? lol, everything that goes in the box itself (not monitor, not keyboard, not mouse)

Oh because there's a lot of things that can go inside a PC like a hardware RAID controller, USB controller, firewire card, Intel NIC, wireless adapter, eSATA card/adapter, LED/Cathode lights, hot-swap bays, temperature meters, liquid cooling, 3rd party air cooling HSF, IDE controller, etc.

Pricing is from MSY.

I always did like the fact that they include a PDF with their prices. Makes helping our Aussie posters so much easier.

PSU: Corsair CX500 V3
$85

Really overpriced considering that the higher-quality and higher-amerpaged Antec HCG 520 is $4 more. SO ditch the Corsair and go for the Antec HCG 520

Case: Antec USB3.0 X1-E or NSK-4100-U3 (depends on which aesthetic he prefers)
$66 or 67

I wouldn't recommend either of these cases. Both cases are of low quality, have little to no room for cable management, and are seriously lacking in the cooling department. As such, not suitable for a long-term gaming PC. If you happen to have a spare 120mm fan and are willing to give it to your friend, go for the Corsair Spec-01 case. If you don't have a spare 120mm fan, then go for the Spec-02 or Spec-03 cases. Those would be the cheapest cases that I can recommend from MSY.

I think pcpartpicker only has US stores? I'm in Australia.
One thing I haven't been able to figure out though, this is the first PC I'm building in a while, with the Haswell refresh (the 4150 is part of the Haswell refresh, yeah?) are they compatible with all B85 boards? On a couple of store websites they have suggested that it might need a BIOS update (which I won't be able to do because I don't have an older Haswell to do the update), but then googling around I can't find anyone warning against using B85's with the Haswell refresh which makes me think it should work fine out of the box?

No. At my work, we've had to BIOs update several Z87 mobos to support some of those Haswell refresh CPUs. So I'd imagine that some of the lower-end B85 mobos will require BIOs updates as well. So unless you're planning on increasing your friend's budget to accomodate a Z97 mobo for guaranteed Haswell refresh support, best just stick with an older Haswell CPU like the Core i3 4130 or the Core i5 4430.

 

[Tudz]

It's largely dependent on the games your friend is playing and whether or not you're a long-term or short-term kind of person. If he's planning on playing heavily multi-threaded games like BF4 or Arma 3, he's better off in the long-run with the quad-core Core i5 and a weaker GPU that he will have to upgrade later on. It's far cheaper and easier to upgrade a video card than to upgrade a CPU.

So what games is he planning on playing?

Well I can't imagine he'll be playing BF4 or Arma 3 simply because I don't think he likes the genre, though he intends to use the computer for a while so maybe it's worth paying the extra for a quad.

Oh because there's a lot of things that can go inside a PC like a hardware RAID controller, USB controller, firewire card, Intel NIC, wireless adapter, eSATA card/adapter, LED/Cathode lights, hot-swap bays, temperature meters, liquid cooling, 3rd party air cooling HSF, IDE controller, etc.

Ah ok, yeah, none of that, just whatever it needs to get running. If I can find a cheap CPU cooler I might put that on, but I don't think he's overly bothered by the drone of the stock fans and won't be overclocking to get temps up anyway.

I always did like the fact that they include a PDF with their prices. Makes helping our Aussie posters so much easier.

Yeah, it's convenient. MSY has 2 stores pretty close to me, I won't necessarily get everything from them, but as a first pass it's good, then I can shop around for the cheapest.

Really overpriced considering that the higher-quality and higher-amerpaged Antec HCG 520 is $4 more. SO ditch the Corsair and go for the Antec HCG 520


I wouldn't recommend either of these cases. Both cases are of low quality, have little to no room for cable management, and are seriously lacking in the cooling department. As such, not suitable for a long-term gaming PC. If you happen to have a spare 120mm fan and are willing to give it to your friend, go for the Corsair Spec-01 case. If you don't have a spare 120mm fan, then go for the Spec-02 or Spec-03 cases. Those would be the cheapest cases that I can recommend from MSY.

Ok, noted. Thanks. I was thinking a good 430W would be sufficient, MSY don't sell them but another store has a Seasonic S12II 430W for $79. If going for a quad, 500 is probably safer though.

No. At my work, we've had to BIOs update several Z87 mobos to support some of those Haswell refresh CPUs. So I'd imagine that some of the lower-end B85 mobos will require BIOs updates as well. So unless you're planning on increasing your friend's budget to accomodate a Z97 mobo for guaranteed Haswell refresh support, best just stick with an older Haswell CPU like the Core i3 4130 or the Core i5 4430.

Gah, that's annoying. Not sure what it's like in the USA, but over here it's getting hard to find older Haswells and they tend to be overpriced. likewise the 9x motherboards seem overpriced for a budget build.

I had a look at Gigabyte's CPU support list and it seems all the B85's are fine with the latest BIOS, but I guess it's impossible to see what BIOS a mobo has until after you've bought it.

 

[Dangman]

Well I can't imagine he'll be playing BF4 or Arma 3 simply because I don't think he likes the genre, though he intends to use the computer for a while so maybe it's worth paying the extra for a quad.

Still didn't answer my question there: So what games is he planning on playing?

Ok, noted. Thanks. I was thinking a good 430W would be sufficient, MSY don't sell them but another store has a Seasonic S12II 430W for $79. If going for a quad, 500 is probably safer though.

Even if you weren't going for the quad, I'd still wouldn't recommend getting that Seasonic at that price. The Antec HCG-520 I recommended is actually of better quality and newer than the old Seasonic 430W. If that Seasonic S12II 430W was like $55 to $60 AUD, then it would be worth it.

Gah, that's annoying. Not sure what it's like in the USA, but over here it's getting hard to find older Haswells and they tend to be overpriced. likewise the 9x motherboards seem overpriced for a budget build.

Not really hard to get older Haswells here in the U.S.

I had a look at Gigabyte's CPU support list and it seems all the B85's are fine with the latest BIOS, but I guess it's impossible to see what BIOS a mobo has until after you've bought it.

Pretty much. Though if your MSY has an awesome customer support/sales team or you're feeling like taking up people's time, you could always have the people test the mobo there at the store with a new Haswell. Or maybe see if you can find out when those mobos were ordered and shipped from whatever manufacturer you chose to that retailer. With that said, it may take awhile for motherboards with a newer BIOs to hit the streets. For example, at work, we had a number of X79 motherboards that required BIOs updates for the Ivy Bridge-E CPUs in January of this year. The Ivy Bridge-E CPUs were relased back in Q3 2013.

 

[Tudz]

Still didn't answer my question there: So what games is he planning on playing?

Apologies, I didn't answer because it's a hard question to answer, lol. He mostly plays older games at the moment, but part of that is because he has an older computer and only just bought a last generation console, so he's not really up with modern games. I'm pretty sure the first thing he'll play will be Skyrim followed by The Witcher 2 followed by whatever fast paced FPS is popular at the time (I can see him playing COD more than I can see him playing BF4). Once he's finished Skyrim and TW2 it's kind of open, since he doesn't know what games are around at the moment, he's the sort of person who is more likely to play a slightly older game, but will play a newer one if it takes his fancy. So I'm just trying to put together something with a general-gaming focus than one particular game.

Even if you weren't going for the quad, I'd still wouldn't recommend getting that Seasonic at that price. The Antec HCG-520 I recommended is actually of better quality and newer than the old Seasonic 430W. If that Seasonic S12II 430W was like $55 to $60 AUD, then it would be worth it.

Ok, will do, thanks. I was hoping I could find a case that had a decent PSU in it to keep costs down but couldn't really find one (Antec used to put half decent PSU's for mid-range PC's in some of their cases but it seems like they don't anymore?).

Not really hard to get older Haswells here in the U.S.

Pretty much. Though if your MSY has an awesome customer support/sales team or you're feeling like taking up people's time, you could always have the people test the mobo there at the store with a new Haswell. Or maybe see if you can find out when those mobos were ordered and shipped from whatever manufacturer you chose to that retailer. With that said, it may take awhile for motherboards with a newer BIOs to hit the streets. For example, at work, we had a number of X79 motherboards that required BIOs updates for the Ivy Bridge-E CPUs in January of this year. The Ivy Bridge-E CPUs were relased back in Q3 2013.

Yeah, that is annoying. MSY doesn't have great customer service, well, it depends who you get behind the counter, I can ask but I'm guessing the answer will just be a blanket "buy a 9 series mobo". There are other stores that do have good customer service and will probably check for me but they also cost a heap more.

I might get my friend to ring around and see if we can find an older Haswell quad, I think it would be better to go for a cheaper B85 board and an older Haswell quad than a more expensive 9 series board (which don't have a lot more features anyway) and a newer Haswell dual core. Just have to see what places have available that might not be advertised.

 

[Dangman]

Apologies, I didn't answer because it's a hard question to answer, lol. He mostly plays older games at the moment, but part of that is because he has an older computer and only just bought a last generation console, so he's not really up with modern games. I'm pretty sure the first thing he'll play will be Skyrim followed by The Witcher 2 followed by whatever fast paced FPS is popular at the time (I can see him playing COD more than I can see him playing BF4). Once he's finished Skyrim and TW2 it's kind of open, since he doesn't know what games are around at the moment, he's the sort of person who is more likely to play a slightly older game, but will play a newer one if it takes his fancy. So I'm just trying to put together something with a general-gaming focus than one particular game.

Well then:
Long-term gaming: Core i5
Short-term gaming: Core i3

Ok, will do, thanks. I was hoping I could find a case that had a decent PSU in it to keep costs down but couldn't really find one (Antec used to put half decent PSU's for mid-range PC's in some of their cases but it seems like they don't anymore?).

Nowadays, in general, the PSU that comes with a case is more than likely going to be crap. Or the case will be crap. Or even both. Antec still has some case + PSU combos but the cases themselves are really crappy by today's standards. Even the older Antec case + PSU combos aren't that good by today's standards or even standards from 4-5 years ago.

 

[Tudz]

Yeah the PSU + case combos were never great components but were often good deals. I really liked it when they had the earthwatts 500W in antec sonata cases, they made for good budget builds. My Mum is still using the computer I built about 7 years ago with that case/PSU combo.

It seems that gigabyte B85M-D3H revision 2 will work out of the box with the haswell refresh, I'll see if I can find a rev 2.0 and if not I'll just get him to buy a H97M-D3H, it's only about $35 more.

I spoke to him and the i3 vs i5, looking at benchmarks with a gtx 760 there's barely any games if any at all that will really have a noticeable different between the hyper threaded dual core and a quad core, but he decided to go with the quad just because he wants to own the computer as long as possible.

 

[Tudz]

All bought except the case. Went for the i5 4460, upgraded to the HCG 520W, went with a H97 board because they didn't have the revision 2 of the B85 boards, otherwise it all went pretty smoothly.

He's picking out a case that he likes and we'll put it together this weekend and see how it runs.

 

[Dangman]

In addition to the cases I recommended earlier, here are some other cases that I would recommend to people:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$56 - NZXT Source 220 Black ATX Case
$60 - Corsair Carbide Series 200R ATX Case
$65 - Corsair Graphite Series 230T Black ATX Case
$75 - Corsair Graphite Series 230T Black w/ Window ATX Case
$100 - Corsair Carbide Series 400R ATX Case
$100 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$100 - Corsair Carbide Series 500R ATX Case
$120 - Antec 1100 ATX Case
$120 - Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Case
$120 - Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Arctic White ATX Case
$110 - Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Gunmetal Black ATX Case
$120 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-002OR Black Finish w/Orange Trim Full Tower ATX Case
$130 - NZXT Phantom 530 Black Full Tower ATX Case
$130 - Corsair Graphite Series 600TM ATX Case
$140 - Corsair Graphite Series 730T ATX Case
$150 - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D ATX Case
$160 - Corsair Obsidian Series 750D ATX Case
$160 - Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$170 - NZXT Phantom 630 Gunmetal Full Tower ATX Case
$170 - NZXT Phantom 630 White Full Tower ATX Case
$190 - Corsair Graphite Series 760T ATX Case
$230 - Silverstone FT02B-USB3.0 ATX Case
$250 - Silverstone FT02S-W-USB3.0 ATX Case

 

[Tudz]

Cool, thanks, he ended up going with an Aerocool Cube thingo. It's actually quite a nice case, everything fit in really well, it happily accepts long graphics cards. The build went smoothly but took ages because he wanted to do it himself to learn and I mostly just guided him, which makes things time consuming!

But it went together fine, booted up fine and installed all the necessary drivers, it was pretty late at night so we decided to hold off on testing it with actual games for a little while.