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BluRay Wins?
- Thread starter Martyr
- Start date
The more they piss people off with their DRM stuff, the more people are gonna wanna pirate. The fact that they try and tell me that I can't even make a legal backup of my dvds is a complete slap in the face. If they are gonna do that, then I'm gonna go download all the newest releases out there and burn them to dvds just to make a point. I'm sorry but if you are not gonna respect my rights, then I am not gonna respect yours.
nigerian_businessman
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,535
The sad thing is, people will still buy this crap and it will become mainstream. All because people care more about a prettier picture than their rights as consumers.
Pathetic, really.
Personally, I'll be passing on either format, same as I'm passing on any computer with TCM or any other intrusive forms of DRM. I'd rather go without than support any of this shit.
Pathetic, really.
Personally, I'll be passing on either format, same as I'm passing on any computer with TCM or any other intrusive forms of DRM. I'd rather go without than support any of this shit.
Netrat33 said:Their rights as a consumer.
Don't have A + B and you want to bitch at them.
Hey I have a COMPUTER...why can't I play this game...Oh because it's Playstation.
WHERE ARE MY RIGHTS?! They STOLE IT FROM ME!
Are you going to even TRY and tell me that this whole situation isn't HORRIBLE for paying consumers in every possible way? Or are you a part of the Blu Ray consortium?
pigwalk
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
- Messages
- 8,396
Netrat33 said:
This is a case of people already having A + B but can't get full use because of unnecessarily crippled features.
steviep said:
I never said I am a bluray supporter.
I'm saying I want one format (and the one that is backward compatible is all I really care)
The poster I RESPONDED to is saying how he won't support it because "all we want is better images"...ok...how's that bad?
I have a TV with HDMI. Sorry if you DON'T. But I already said I hardly doubt it's really going to be the issue you think it will be.
All I need now is a player...which one...well THAT'S THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION we are all asking.
DragonMasterAlex
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2005
- Messages
- 2,993
Devnull said:
Say what? You're on crack, man. I was at CES and SAW BluRay movies and HD-DVD movies playing back, and guess what? NO DIFFERENCE in quality. The "BD to 200GB" lie involves an 8 layer disk. Need you be reminded that according to early DVD hype, a standard DVD could have almost 20GB by using 4 layer disks. Have you seen any 4 layer disks? I haven't. Also, there's no reason at all that HD-DVD can't support 1080p, period.
The gimmick in the media market today is UMD, and BluRay is it's gimmicky buddy. BD offers NO advantages over HD-DVD when it comes to movie playback, period. Meanwhile, neither HD-DVD nor Bluray are adequate for extensive backup tasks. Disks are too small, too expensive and too slow.
Jason
Perhaps a boycott of the "next-gen" media is in order? I mean, I have no doubt that DVD Jon (or somebody else, but probably him) will break AACS pretty fast, but I would rather not support the bottom lines of companies who consider those who will protect THEIR rights to be criminals.
nigerian_businessman
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,535
Netrat33 said:
I wont support it because I refuse to support the technology. I find it depressing that you're willing to sacrifice your fair use rights for a couple extra pixels on a screen. If thats what is required to see the crappy movies coming out of hollywood these days, I'll pass. HD is wonderful and all, but I was enjoying movies on a 24 inch analog TV for a long time and I'm not going to keel over and die if thats what I need to continue doing in order to not support the stripping away of my rights as a consumer.
The thing is, since I got on demand movies through cable, I haven't downloaded movies online at all. I also don't backup my DVD's, hell I don't even own that many. The point is that it's about having the choice -- if for some reason I wanted to, or needed to, I want to have that option. The new technology that is coming out is all well and good, but I'm not going to trade in those rights just for the privilege of paying for stuff that I really don't need anyway. Some things are more important than others, and my rights are more important than having the latest and greatest hardware so I can watch a high definition version of what? Dukes of fucking Hazzard? Give me a break.
Perhaps my opinion would be different if the MPAA hadn't already proven itself to be anti-consumer. I don't mind STEAM, which is a form of content protection, because Valve hasn't just used it as a way to lock down their content, they've used it in a pro consumer way by rolling out updates and free content through the network, and by making the game available for download instead of only on CD, so if my backup copy (which they condone making) gets scratched, I can download it again at no extra charge.
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/
According to that, the only technical factor that I see would make a difference in HD playback, resolution is the transfer rate of movies. 36Mbps for HD-DVD and 54Mbps for Blu ray.
I'm not saying Sony's the big one, but you can definitely see their influence on it.
I want something similar to DVD. You can't copy it to VHS without degrading the quality (why would you want to?), and copying it requires special software. Even if you couldn't copy them, you wouldn't need to upgrade your whole home theater to watch the movies.
Why should I have to upgrade a brand new HDTV because my HD-DVD player couldn't play them right. It would have all the right specs, resolutions, etc., other than the anti-piracy features? Bullshit.
If they phased it in, and it was near transparent to the end user (the transistion), then maybe. I wouldn't mind.
I agree that they need to protect their content, but they DO go to far. Way to far in some cases.
According to that, the only technical factor that I see would make a difference in HD playback, resolution is the transfer rate of movies. 36Mbps for HD-DVD and 54Mbps for Blu ray.
I'm not saying Sony's the big one, but you can definitely see their influence on it.
I want something similar to DVD. You can't copy it to VHS without degrading the quality (why would you want to?), and copying it requires special software. Even if you couldn't copy them, you wouldn't need to upgrade your whole home theater to watch the movies.
Why should I have to upgrade a brand new HDTV because my HD-DVD player couldn't play them right. It would have all the right specs, resolutions, etc., other than the anti-piracy features? Bullshit.
If they phased it in, and it was near transparent to the end user (the transistion), then maybe. I wouldn't mind.
I agree that they need to protect their content, but they DO go to far. Way to far in some cases.
I think that's because they're the only company that computer/console gamers are seeing in the spotlight, especially since Microsoft has scurried away into the HD-DVD-MAY-B closet.Trimlock said:
Trust me, in the places where it counts--e.g. board rooms, bars, and convention/hotel suites--there's a whole lot of pushin' going on on all sides. We. Know. Nothing.
The pulses of all'us forum idjits are the absolute worst measures to go by. Everyone just needs to sit the fack down and play with what they have for the next 2 years. Buy a BR player; Buy an HD-DVD player. Who gives a sh1t. For a long time, it's not going to make a lick of difference outside of the forums.
Nobody wins. In fact, I hope they both LOSE. If you've got an HDTV (especially one prior to a year or two ago, which won't work with these!!) use it to play upscaled DVDs, HD TV content, and HD DivX or something... just stay far away from the stupid next gen DVD formats so that they can't screw their consumers once AGAIN with provisional licenses on AACS (i.e. you early adopters may have a product that won't be 100% compatible with future versions of HD/Blu-Ray). It's complete bullshit. And I thought the format war in itself was bad enough for consumers.
I'm getting behind Blu-Ray in a big way, for a few reasons:
1. It's going to be in the PS3, so I won't have to be a seperate player
2. Better quality on paper, more advanced technology in the discs, more storage capacity
3. I'd much rather support Sony than Microsoft.
As for all of the HDMI whining - get off it. I bought my HDTV almost four years ago, and it is HDCP compliant, in fact, a ton of sets out back then were, an everything pretty much in the last couple years has been. It is technically possible for a TV to have DVI but not be HDCP, but I haven't seen an example of that in a television yet (just computer monitors).
1. It's going to be in the PS3, so I won't have to be a seperate player
2. Better quality on paper, more advanced technology in the discs, more storage capacity
3. I'd much rather support Sony than Microsoft.
As for all of the HDMI whining - get off it. I bought my HDTV almost four years ago, and it is HDCP compliant, in fact, a ton of sets out back then were, an everything pretty much in the last couple years has been. It is technically possible for a TV to have DVI but not be HDCP, but I haven't seen an example of that in a television yet (just computer monitors).
NulloModo said:
Unless the PS3 takes a fair delay, the Blu Ray drive in it will only have a provisional license, and therefore it will not be 100% compatible with the final standard. (I seem to remember something similar happen with the first wave of DVD players?). I wouldn't jump on it for BD movie capability right now, that's for sure.
And how sure are you that the HDCP on your TV will support AACS? You should check it out, since HDCP support doesn't necessarily mean AACS support
steviep said:Unless the PS3 takes a fair delay, the Blu Ray drive in it will only have a provisional license, and therefore it will not be 100% compatible with the final standard. (I seem to remember something similar happen with the first wave of DVD players?). I wouldn't jump on it for BD movie capability right now, that's for sure.
And how sure are you that the HDCP on your TV will support AACS? You should check it out, since HDCP support doesn't necessarily mean AACS support
Exactly, it more like while its technically possible to have a HDTV that has a DVI connector instead of HDMI that is compatible with AACS, I have yet to see one. Think of AACS as CSS that your TV has to decrypt, That information needs to be included in their some how. Most DVI/HDCP TVs act more a hand shake tool then anything else, basically the set top says "oh your a digital line cool he is my video feed".
Thats why ATI had to take down HDCP support on their graphics cards, technically they support all of the handshaking theories but are completely incompatible with encrypted signals. In fact I am not sure if anyone has explained how this whole AACS/HDMI thing is going to work with computers. Is it going to have to create some kind of encrypted stream to the chipset, does it need to have AACS support, if it not possible are we going to be forced to hook internal drives into our videocards harking back to the days of PB and their SC/CDROM bundles.
As for what to support, I am going for HD-DVD, because no matter how bad this AACS is their are some damn near illegal things that the BD+ (or is BR+) copy protection scheme allows for. This auto flashing, possible intentional firmware frying really bugs the hell out of me.
BladeVenom
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2005
- Messages
- 7,707
They fry your player. Of course all your discs are locked by DRM to your player so they are all become unplayable also.
NulloModo said:
I don't like MS. I run FreeBSD where I can, use and push OSS software whenever possible, and the like. However, I'd rather support them than Sony when it comes to standards. Microsoft supports HD-DVD because it allows at least some limited fair-use conveniences (which makes their media center OS software more useful, probably). Sony supports Blu-ray because it allows them some truly hardcore control. Don't forget that Sony also publishes content and wants to lock it down as hard as they possibly can get away with. (There was this case not too long ago involving CD copy protection that showcased why I'm terrified of any Sony-designed standard involving DRM.)
HHunt said:
Don't kid yourself, both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are equally as bad when it comes to limiting users rights. I just like Sony because they brought my lots of tech I still use today, the PS2 and Minidisc being the two biggies. I'd use MacOS over WinXP if there were half as many piracy tools in WinXP.
QFT!Arkham said:
Found that post and HAD to skip the rest of the thread. Sorry if I'm interrupting. Why do people worry about things they have no control over? Don't kid yourselves, you are being controlled. You have no free will. Live with it.
Osht, I've got 1984 and 2006 mixed up! My bad.
MH Knights
Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2003
- Messages
- 734
And the hacked boxes and other illegal things as such won't be available to purchase WITH the BD/HD roms, anyway, so you'll be waiting a little while before the process is perfected. I say just raise a big middle finger to both formats until everything gets sorted out, and done properly. Format and DRM wars for teh loss!
I agree. Forget about the copy protection for the moment. The beta wars going on now will have Hid Def DVD, in any flavour, go down the path of SACD and DVD-A, i.e. niche obscurity for the general masses. It's amazing how ignorant both sides can be when they only have to look at the massive success of the unified DVD standard that brought them millions, if not billions, of dollars.
HDCP will be cracked, eventually. It's only a matter of time. Admittedly, there is interesting methods it employs to prevent hacking.
My comment about current HDTV owners was said in jest, but in all honesty it is somethign that really offends me. They are selling TV"s today that will be obsolete with respect to future HDTV material. This is not the same as selling someone a tape deck a few years before CD"s were coming out, even if they knew about it. These retailers do, or should, realize that any TV sold without HDCP is basically obsolete if HDCP becomes the standard for viewing HDTV materials. What good is having HDTV if all you can do is watch down-scaled HDTV?
HDCP will be cracked, eventually. It's only a matter of time. Admittedly, there is interesting methods it employs to prevent hacking.
My comment about current HDTV owners was said in jest, but in all honesty it is somethign that really offends me. They are selling TV"s today that will be obsolete with respect to future HDTV material. This is not the same as selling someone a tape deck a few years before CD"s were coming out, even if they knew about it. These retailers do, or should, realize that any TV sold without HDCP is basically obsolete if HDCP becomes the standard for viewing HDTV materials. What good is having HDTV if all you can do is watch down-scaled HDTV?
Here Here. I was so pissed off when I read all that BS. If thats how it's going to be I'll just keep watching my old DVD's and rent HD PPV on my Dish Network. Fuck em' all for taking the choices away from those of us who don't and wouldn't bother proliferating pirated materials. I'm not replacing any of the HD shit in my house until I'm damned good and ready.steviep said:
If thats the way it's going to be, then the HD consortiums can kiss my ass.
content delivery systems and on demand services will outperform these two stupid combating formats. after the amount of time thats been spent in trying to resolve there copy protection issues there will be other outlets for this type of highdef content.
no question about it though, consumers have been screwed way over. there are people out there who will probably never have the chance to utilize there hdtv to anywhere near their potential/features/specs. so much for these types of early adopters.
no question about it though, consumers have been screwed way over. there are people out there who will probably never have the chance to utilize there hdtv to anywhere near their potential/features/specs. so much for these types of early adopters.
Neurofreeze
2[H]4U
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- Jan 11, 2002
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- 2,523
DragonMasterAlex said:
I remember my roommate actually getting some very high capacity porn DVDs that were double-sided, double-layered, for around 16-18GB total.
Now the weirdest part is that he would watch DVDs like that like normal people would watch Seinfield in the common room.
Amanda said:
Blu-Ray isn't Sony. Sony invented the laser, the Blu-Ray Consortium invented and approved the format.
This used to be a major sticking point; recently, costs have been somehow driven down to be more palatable to disc manufacturers. HD-DVD is still cheaper, but the gap has been narrowed.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blu-Ray players will play regular DVDs. How exactly does HD-DVD have "better compatibility?" With what?
Developers are using dual-layer DVDs for their PS3 games, rather than Blu-Ray discs. The only companies producing Blu-Ray DVDs are... movie studios!
stelleg151
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 444
Neurofreeze said:
LOL @ creepy roomates.
Oh yeah and my two cents on the topic: Im gonna wait to buy a player until I can rip the winner of the format war, couldnt give a shite which side it is. Until then I have my upscaled DVD's and cable HDTV content.