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Bitcoin Discussion Thread Part 2

Lorien said:
OK, you have shown you can type a link in block explorer. Is there a point you are trying to make?

P.S: In fact let me make a point for you. All those coins that have been withdrawn have had no effect on the value of bitcoins. People have been trading them and they've been holding around the same level that mtgox left them. Let me know if you need help reading the graph I'll gladly explain it to you.
Click to expand...

In fact, I do have a point to make. Mtgox almost certainly lied in their story about what happened with the hacker. They claimed that a hacker broke into one user account, which had 400,000+ bitcoins in it. In fact, this is how many bitcoins all of their user accounts combined have, which means that the hacker somehow got control of ALL of mtgox's bitcoins,and then turned around and sold them.

Which shouldn't even be possible, since this sale would likely have doubled the number of bitcoins which mtgox had on their books. The hacker did far more than get access to a user account, he found some serious flaw which allowed him to completely compromise the system.

Since it appears that mtgox is lying in their public statements of what's going on, it would be a good idea for anyone involved to watch them to see what's actually going on. So I'm pointing to what looks to me like the begining of a major exodus of users and bitcoins from the mtgox system.

So far, it would appear that only 3% of the bitcoins in Mtgox have been withdrawn, which is not any sort of crisis for them. If this rate of withdrawal continues, it certainly will be.
 
Lorien said:
That calculator is VERY misleading. It makes the wrong assumption that difficulty is flat and does not change which is false. Difficulty changes (up or down) every 2016 blocks, the faster the network chews through those 2016 blocks the greater the increase in difficulty. The current average rate of difficulty increase has been 45%. Here is a much better calculator that lets you enter difficulty as a progressive value: http://striketeam.ath.cx/btccalc/btccalc.php

Notice how income drops off very dramatically after the first month if difficulty increases are sustained regardless of hashing power. On top of that you have to subtract energy consumption costs from those estimates.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was aware of all that but didn't want to take the time you did, like I said, was generalizing :D. Thanks though for taking the time to do what I didn't so others will learn about that.
 
meme said:
In fact, I do have a point to make. Mtgox almost certainly lied in their story about what happened with the hacker. They claimed that a hacker broke into one user account, which had 400,000+ bitcoins in it. In fact, this is how many bitcoins all of their user accounts combined have, which means that the hacker somehow got control of ALL of mtgox's bitcoins,and then turned around and sold them.

Which shouldn't even be possible, since this sale would likely have doubled the number of bitcoins which mtgox had on their books. The hacker did far more than get access to a user account, he found some serious flaw which allowed him to completely compromise the system.

Since it appears that mtgox is lying in their public statements of what's going on, it would be a good idea for anyone involved to watch them to see what's actually going on. So I'm pointing to what looks to me like the begining of a major exodus of users and bitcoins from the mtgox system.

So far, it would appear that only 3% of the bitcoins in Mtgox have been withdrawn, which is not any sort of crisis for them. If this rate of withdrawal continues, it certainly will be.
Click to expand...
That's a nice summary of every conspiracy theory alarmist troll thread from the main forums. Good job!
 
Lorien said:
That's a nice summary of every conspiracy theory alarmist troll thread from the main forums. Good job!
Click to expand...

Exactly how is it a conspiracy?

The hacker clearly got control of 400,000+ bitcoins. This is almost the total sum of all the bitcoins which mtgox has. Obviously there can't be one user account with 400,000+ bitcoins if this is how much all the accounts combined have.

How do YOU explain this?
 
Wow, the spiraling has started even faster in Thread #2! It only took two pages. :)
 
It's crazy, I went from Aggression 5 (using phoenix miner) on both my 5870s, and it equaled a 209.5 MHash/s rate per card.

Increased Aggression to 6, and they're both up to 377.5 MHash/s per card

Does that make any sense at all? That low of an aggression should not give me pretty much 95% performance of a 5870, with no system lag at all. Something isn't adding up
 
Reality said:
It's crazy, I went from Aggression 5 (using phoenix miner) on both my 5870s, and it equaled a 209.5 MHash/s rate per card.

Increased Aggression to 6, and they're both up to 377.5 MHash/s per card

Does that make any sense at all? That low of an aggression should not give me pretty much 95% performance of a 5870, with no system lag at all. Something isn't adding up
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be complaining, looks like you're getting the best of both worlds here...lol
 
I tried the same thing with my 5850. I was getting 356 mhash/s with aggression 11. I set it to 6 and got pretty much the same thing but gpu is sitting at 93% utilization instead of 99%. I got less when it was set on 5. I needed only aggression 7 for my 5770 to get 205 mhash/s with gpu at 98%. It was on 12 before. Weird indeed.
 
meme said:
Exactly how is it a conspiracy?

The hacker clearly got control of 400,000+ bitcoins. This is almost the total sum of all the bitcoins which mtgox has. Obviously there can't be one user account with 400,000+ bitcoins if this is how much all the accounts combined have.

How do YOU explain this?
Click to expand...

Did you look at the block chain for the 432K transaction?

I looked the day of, from what I remember 432K BTC was consolidated into one place a week before the attack and then made one more transaction the day of the attack (could be into MtGox but I don't know their known addresses) before having a boatload transferred somewhere else.
 
This is going to seem like a really stupid question I'm sure, but.. how do I get a "bitcoin address" or generate a wallet if that's what it's all about?
 
nxcess said:
I tried the same thing with my 5850. I was getting 356 mhash/s with aggression 11. I set it to 6 and got pretty much the same thing but gpu is sitting at 93% utilization instead of 99%. I got less when it was set on 5. I needed only aggression 7 for my 5770 to get 205 mhash/s with gpu at 98%. It was on 12 before. Weird indeed.
Click to expand...

Yeah it is. Aggression increases MH/s on my 6970s in a nice linear way up until 11. Using 12 and higher only increases CPU core utilization and an actual decrease in MH/s.

wolfofone said:
This is going to seem like a really stupid question I'm sure, but.. how do I get a "bitcoin address" or generate a wallet if that's what it's all about?
Click to expand...

The bitcoin client IS the wallet and also generates addresses. They are unique to the machine in which you install it on. Your first address is created when you first install the bitcoin client and you can keep creating new ones for each transaction that you make, they will still be unique to that machine. And no that's not all there is to it.

Have a read at this link for a pretty good explanation of what this is all about: http://snowedin.net/blog/2011/04/05/bitcoin/
 
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Lorien said:
Yeah it is. Aggression increases MH/s on my 6970s in a nice linear way up until 11. Using 12 and higher only increases CPU core utilization and an actual decrease in MH/s.



The bitcoin client IS the wallet and also generates addresses. They are unique to the machine in which you install it on. Your first address is created when you first install the bitcoin client and you can keep creating new ones for each transaction that you make, they will still be unique to that machine. And no that's not all there is to it.

Have a read at this link for a pretty good explanation of what this is all about: http://snowedin.net/blog/2011/04/05/bitcoin/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the fast response. I'm using the GUIMIner (linked in the thread that was linked to on the first page), is the miner the same thing as the client? If so how would I go about finding my bitcoin wallet/address?
 
LightningCrash said:
Did you look at the block chain for the 432K transaction?

I looked the day of, from what I remember 432K BTC was consolidated into one place a week before the attack and then made one more transaction the day of the attack (could be into MtGox but I don't know their known addresses) before having a boatload transferred somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Do you have any links to it right now?

My understanding is that the 432,000 bitcoin wallet is basically the same pile of bitcoins which is now sitting here http://blockexplorer.com/address/1eHhgW6vquBYhwMPhQ668HPjxTtpvZGPC and which definitely belongs to Mtgox. Mtgox regularly takes its big pile of bitcoins, separates it out into 50,000 coin piles, and then puts them back together again into one big pile. I'm not sure why they do that.
 
Sorry for the double post, but I have another newb question :) Any recomendations for flags/switches to improve 6950 performance? Right now I'm using.. -v -w128 -f60
 
What are you at right now? You have the correct flags for HD6K cards, though you can use -f30 or lower to give the miner more priority over the video card's resources. It works in reverse, the higher the value, the less priority.
 
I'm sorry, but what's the point of this?
Doesn't it cost more money to run the hardware than you get from mining?
Are people counting on the value of bitcoins to go up or something?
 
No, I'm making about $4 a day net on my 6870 at todays values.
 
Evil Penguin said:
I'm sorry, but what's the point of this?
Doesn't it cost more money to run the hardware than you get from mining?
Are people counting on the value of bitcoins to go up or something?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm just doing a lil experiment to try out all this bitcoin stuff out of sheer curiosity. I'm not really expecting to make any money :p
 
Evil Penguin said:
What would be the best miner to use on say... Radeon HD 6970?
Click to expand...

From what I've read, 5850 and 6950 are good price/performance cards. The 6970 does seem like it would be the best performing single GPU card thou b/c of the extra shaders and core clock vs the 6950.

EDIT: The 5830 cards also seem to be selling like hotcakes but i can't comment on how well they mine.
 
Evil Penguin said:
I'm sorry, I was referring to the software.
There are a couple programs that can run GPUs.
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry :) I'm using GUIMiner v2011-06-14 and it seems to work pretty well. Hopefully the more experienced guys can chime in w/ their favorites
 
Evil Penguin said:
I'm sorry, but what's the point of this?
Doesn't it cost more money to run the hardware than you get from mining?
Are people counting on the value of bitcoins to go up or something?
Click to expand...

yes, most people are counting on the value going up, in theory, the harder it gets to mine bitcoins, the more valuable they become, we'll see, but if you live in an area where power costs are low it doesn't really cost that much, most of us [H]ere aren't running huge farms that cost hundreds of dollars a month to operate, I've actually cut my costs since I started, I had a 5850 in one rig and a 4890 and 4870 in mixed crossfire in another, I've replaced the crossfired cards with a 6850 (it cost me $45 USD and 4.189 BTC), so I get more MH/s now with a lot less power draw, it's basically just a hobby for me since I can't afford to "invest" beyond the $45 I put into it, I will mine what I can, save my wallet somewhere and see what happens to the value...
 
Evil Penguin said:
I'm sorry, I was referring to the software.
There are a couple programs that can run GPUs.
Click to expand...

you need to watch what programs you install, there have been a lot of scammers putting programs out that promise better results and all they basically do is steal your wallet...
 
Evil Penguin said:
I'm sorry, I was referring to the software.
There are a couple programs that can run GPUs.
Click to expand...

Guiminer using Phoenix with extra flags: -k poclbm VECTORS BFI_INT AGGRESSION=11 WORKSIZE=128

If this sounds like gibberish let me know and I can elaborate/explain.
 
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Evil Penguin said:
What would be the best miner to use on say... Radeon HD 6970?
Click to expand...

the best miner for sheer volume is a 6990, but because it's so expensive and uses so much powah there are cheaper options that are more cost efficient, the 5850 started out as THE card to get when it was reasonably priced, now since the price has gone up a lot of people are getting 5830s because the price is still "reasonable" at a lot of retailers...

LOLEDIT: FAIL on my part, I read it wrong...
 
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Lorien said:
Guiminer using Phoenix with extra flags: -k pobclbm VECTORS BFI_INT AGGRESSION=11 WORKSIZE=128

If this sounds like gibberish let me know and I can elaborate/explain.
Click to expand...

yup, total gibberish ;) Would it be better to use Pheonix or OpenCL miner (in GUIMiner program) for a 6950? I'm using the OpenCL (whatever the default miner is) miner currently..
 
Lorien said:
Guiminer using Phoenix with extra flags: -k pobclbm VECTORS BFI_INT AGGRESSION=11 WORKSIZE=128

If this sounds like gibberish let me know and I can elaborate/explain.
Click to expand...
I'm trying this, but it says it can't find the specified kernel.
 
Yeah I spelled it wrong, it should be -k poclbm (Python OpenCL Bitcoin Miner)

wolfofone said:
yup, total gibberish ;) Would it be better to use Pheonix or OpenCL miner (in GUIMiner program) for a 6950? I'm using the OpenCL (whatever the default miner is) miner currently..
Click to expand...

From within guiminer. File---New Miner---New Phoenix miner. Then enter your pool info if you are in a pool, and start it up
 
Lorien said:
Yeah I spelled it wrong, it should be -k poclbm (Python OpenCL Bitcoin Miner)

From within guiminer. File---New Miner---New Phoenix miner. Then enter your pool info if you are in a pool, and start it up
Click to expand...

Alright, once this round is up, I'll switch over to that and see how it performs :)
 
Lorien said:
Yeah I spelled it wrong, it should be -k poclbm (Python OpenCL Bitcoin Miner)



From within guiminer. File---New Miner---New Phoenix miner. Then enter your pool info if you are in a pool, and start it up
Click to expand...

When trying to start it up I get "ivalid literal for int() with base 10: 'my password here'" any ideas?


Evil Penguin said:
My 6970s are getting about 390 Mhash/s.
Is that good?
Click to expand...

Seems to be, its more than my overclocked 6950 is pushing!
 
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