Bioware on piracy

[defiant007]

http://www.destructoid.com/bioware-piracy-is-always-a-problem-147525.phtml

Piracy is a hot topic for any PC developer, so when I went to check out Dragon Age: Origins in Edmonton, I took the opportunity to ask BioWare whether a loyal fanbase makes piracy less of a problem and, if not, how the studio deals with it.

"Piracy is always a problem, for all media," answers Mike Laidlaw. "Certainly offering people editions of the game that include bonus items do help encourage them to purchase the title rather than pirate it, as do options like additional content that check for valid copies of the game, these measures help because they don’t penalize the legitimate users of the game by adding additional steps to install or launch, for instance.

"Instead, they offer an incentive to the player who is running a legitimate copy of the game. This is certainly a paradigm shift away from the harsher copy protection we’ve seen in the past, and I think it’s not only working, but appreciated. It creates a friendlier environment for everyone."

Electronic Arts won itself no fans with its continued and insistant use of SecuROM in all of its products. Hopefully BioWare's commitment to treating paying customers with a little more respect will be rewarded. Knowing what pirates are like though, it's a little doubtful.

Finally some devs are starting to get it. Inveterate pirates will copy a game no matter what and will have no problem bypassing draconian DRM. Instead of punishing legit users, they need to provide advantages and benefits to owning an original copy over a pirated copy.

 

[refraxion]

I hope this is true. Or else I'll have to go do something to BioWare! Lol j/k <3.

Gogo Edmonton! Woot

 

[PrincessFrosty]

It was only a matter of time before developers wised up to this.

 

[mstersmith1]

Or people could I dont know, not steal and if they do face fines or jail time. Call me crazy.

 

[Guitarrasdeamor]

Or people could I dont know, not steal and if they do face fines or jail time. Call me crazy.

Or, you could come to the real world, and realize that people won't not steal, then realize developers can do what they can to make good games and combat piracy however they see effective.

 

[mstersmith1]

Or, you could come to the real world, and realize that people won't not steal, then realize developers can do what they can to make good games and combat piracy however they see effective.

Ya like The World of Goo devolopers. I think that game was 90% pirated. I am loving all the heavy fines being laid out to people using P2P and hope it begins to extend to those who pirate games. Anyone who does so is scum.

 

[Guitarrasdeamor]

Ya like The World of Goo devolopers. I think that game was 90% pirated. I am loving all the heavy fines being laid out to people using P2P and hope it begins to extend to those who pirate games. Anyone who does so is scum.

Did they combat piracy? Realize people won't stop stealing...I don't see how I would be scum if I tried something before I buy, and didn't buy it if I didn't like it. There is probably a good lot like that.

 

[Conker]

People will pay for the stuff if its good. They should have nothing to worry about if what they make is good. Only reason EA does it is because they know they make trash so they are trying to make money down to the last drop while losing customers and support from the community. In the long run they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[mstersmith1]

People will pay for the stuff if its good. They should have nothing to worry about if what they make is good. Only reason EA does it is because they know they make trash so they are trying to make money down to the last drop while losing customers and support from the community. In the long run they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Or we continue to help the demise of PC gaming. WE know its just as easy to pirate a game on a console. Publishers dont care because the games fly off the shelves good or bad. PC games on the other hand cater to a niche market. If we as a community want more PC exclusives of a quality we expect than we have to do all we can to support those who make games period. I know some POS will always take what is not theres but if the majority say nothing than we will see consolised games on the PC as a standard. But hey what do I know I buy my games instead of stealing them guess I am the idiot.

 

[Ripskin]

Glad to see that they are taking a step in the right direction.

If the game appealed to me I would definitely be buying it to support them for their efforts in being friendly to those they want to pay for their stuff...

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Glad to see that they are taking a step in the right direction.

If the game appealed to me I would definitely be buying it to support them for their efforts in being friendly to those they want to pay for their stuff...

yeah i agree.. not only that but it also gives people a reason to buy the game when its 50 dollars to get the bonus stuff early..

though when it comes to pirating games.. there actually is 0 benefit to pirating the game to begin with.. all you end up being able to do is play the single player and maybe play over hamachi.. and lets just say.. playing over hamachi or any other VPN is worthless since theres no punkbuster/anti-cheat support on lan in most games..

id say at a minimum 10-15% of people that pirate a game.. usually end up buying the game just for the multiplayer portion of the game.. and im part of that 10-15%.. though there are a lot of games i just go out and buy right away because the companies backed up the hype they were receiving..
there has been so much garbage being released these days and vary few of them are released with demo's that actually show what the true game play is like for me to go out and buy them without testing the game first.. though now that more and more game dev's are going toward public beta's ive been a lot more interested in them.. hopefully this trend continues because if it is a good game.. it will definitely boost sales..

 

[Krenum]

If you build it they will come.



..............If you want them to build it for you ...press 1.

 

[bigdogchris]

I'm about ready to jump in the boat that PC sales are down/suffering over the past 10 years, because console sales are up over the past 10 years.

 

[edifyingkarma]

I love bioware

 

[LuminaryJanitor]

Finally some devs are starting to get it.

You mean EA is starting to get it... It's not like BioWare would have a say in it if the higher-ups at EA were still mandating DRM.

 

[hardc0re]

most games that used intrusive anti-piracy methods were bashed down by reviewers and customers. Nobody wants to have shitware installed that dictates how many installs they can have or getting their dvd burner drivers hijacked by antipirate virtual drivers. This is all because these companies hired a bunch of schmuckface Queens MBA numbskulls and gave them the task of saving their company money by reducing piracy.

 

[jeremyshaw]

And that is why I reimage my computers every two months.

Too much 'crapware'.

Either way, ever notice pirates still play games, no matter how harsh the block?

 

[ikarinokami]

people who pirate do not care if a game is good. i think common sense would tell you the oposite, that people pirate the things they like.

no amount of goodies will ever combat free.

i support any company that take whatever measure stop piracy, as long as the buyer is made aware of all limitations placed on the software. as long as there is full disclosure of any and all measures and what exactly each measure does, and how it effects your computer.

playing a game is not a right, nor is it a burden if you can't play it. and as long as the your choice to buy the game is made with full disclosure, publishers should do what ever it takes.

I read today that the adult industry is pretty much dying because of piracy. pc game industry is i danger of that, espically because of the two factors that are killing the adult industry one being that with people thinking piracy as regards to adult entertianment is acceptable, and that a pirated copy of a game, will deliver nearly 100% of the same experience as a legitimate copy.

Demi God pretty proved that piracy is as rampant and prevasive as many developers in the past stating it was.

I like stardock, there games have thier place, but i would like AAA titles designed for my pc also.

 

[jchoi]

Good for Bioware. Hopefully, they'll set an example for the other developers to follow.

 

[evilsofa]

I read today that the adult industry is pretty much dying because of piracy.

Where did you read that? Who needs to pirate porn? It's like pirating the news. There's so much of it on the internet for free that there's no need to pirate or purchase it.

Anyway, I read that pirates buy more music than anyone else.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Pirated copies get all the same content legit ones do, it is nice they are going this route, but really the pirates wont be losing out on anything either.

The key is to stop treating legit people like criminals.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Where did you read that? Who needs to pirate porn? It's like pirating the news. There's so much of it on the internet for free that there's no need to pirate or purchase it.

Anyway, I read that pirates buy more music than anyone else.

Free content is only so good, i had some friends that were doing well in the pron buisness until it started really finding it's way onto the internet, they had to shut down shop, sales and subscription based sites a re struggling cause now everyone hits their prefered P2P client and search for porn and downloads, or they are all just going to www.bing.com and turning off the content filter

 

[sirmonkey1985]

people who pirate do not care if a game is good. i think common sense would tell you the oposite, that people pirate the things they like.

no amount of goodies will ever combat free.

i support any company that take whatever measure stop piracy, as long as the buyer is made aware of all limitations placed on the software. as long as there is full disclosure of any and all measures and what exactly each measure does, and how it effects your computer.

playing a game is not a right, nor is it a burden if you can't play it. and as long as the your choice to buy the game is made with full disclosure, publishers should do what ever it takes.

I read today that the adult industry is pretty much dying because of piracy. pc game industry is i danger of that, espically because of the two factors that are killing the adult industry one being that with people thinking piracy as regards to adult entertianment is acceptable, and that a pirated copy of a game, will deliver nearly 100% of the same experience as a legitimate copy.

Demi God pretty proved that piracy is as rampant and prevasive as many developers in the past stating it was.

I like stardock, there games have thier place, but i would like AAA titles designed for my pc also.

stardock did the right thing though.. by making sure there was no possible way to update the game without a legit key nor could you download new maps.. i downloaded the game.. installed it.. saw that.. deleted the game and went to the store the same day and bought the game.. was well worth the money in the end.. but thats the kind of thinking more companies need to have..

Free content is only so good, i had some friends that were doing well in the pron buisness until it started really finding it's way onto the internet, they had to shut down shop, sales and subscription based sites a re struggling cause now everyone hits their prefered P2P client and search for porn and downloads, or they are all just going to www.bing.com and turning off the content filter

the internet caused that industry to grow to fast.. and let to many security flaws in the system allowing piracy to take over.. there are tons of things they could of done to keep it from happening.. but they didnt and they still fail to do it now..

 

[Ryom]

Interestingly, Mass Effect PC has a General Protection Fault bug that has rendered many legit owners unable to play the game they bought. The thread about it has gone on for over half a year and no solution has been offered. Many people are voicing their discontent with Bioware's support over it.

http://meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=667518&forum=127&sp=105

I've been bitten by this bug just now, I get a GPF on the Prothean Skyway Elevator every time. Since this is a plot neccesary point I cannot finish the game!

Want to combat piracy? Make sure your games are playable!

 

[KayossZero]

Ya like The World of Goo devolopers. I think that game was 90% pirated. I am loving all the heavy fines being laid out to people using P2P and hope it begins to extend to those who pirate games. Anyone who does so is scum.

While I didn't steal WoG or other Indy games for that matter I don't lose one ounce of sleep over most of the 30$+ games that aren't even worth 10$ let alone 30$+.

What you and others like you fail to realize is that piracy is never going to end and that most of these lost sales are BS because 90% of the time the individual wasn't going to buy the product in the first place.

 

[ikarinokami]

While I didn't steal WoG or other Indy games for that matter I don't lose one ounce of sleep over most of the 30$+ games that aren't even worth 10$ let alone 30$+.

What you and others like you fail to realize is that piracy is never going to end and that most of these lost sales are BS because 90% of the time the individual wasn't going to buy the product in the first place.

why does this B.S persists. I am a prosecutor i have never any person steal something they did not want and unlike most traditional larceners most people who buy or trade in pirated goods, have the means to buy the real thing, but again it's hard to beat free or 80% discount.

the vast majority most consumers who trade in pirated goods that i have come accross, in both professional and personal capacity, all have the means and willingness of obtain the actual good, they only pirate because the good has value to them, people pirate things they want and need. Most of the people i knew in law school pirated software, and they could have afforded but usually they had one of three lame excuses
.1. who cares it's corporation x (usaully EA or Microsoft)
2. its not a big deal
3. I can buy this instead, usually a good that can't be pirated, most commonly alchohol.

 

[ikarinokami]

Where did you read that? Who needs to pirate porn? It's like pirating the news. There's so much of it on the internet for free that there's no need to pirate or purchase it.

Anyway, I read that pirates buy more music than anyone else.

most of the "free porn on the internet is pirated"

unlike the RIAA they are afraid to sue anyone, because it's become so acceptable and it's porn, that they do not beleive they would get a single juror to convict, they are proabblly right. the idea of free porn has become sort of a right. Judging from i saw in law school and at work, pc software is becoming dangerously close to that point.

 

[Ragenrok]

you know its funny, all these goofy drm things on games from companies like EA and the only thing that seems to do any good is A CD key, and that only works half decent because it limits people from playing online (atleast on official servers)

 

[Derangel]

you know its funny, all these goofy drm things on games from companies like EA and the only thing that seems to do any good is A CD key, and that only works half decent because it limits people from playing online (atleast on official servers)

If they don't do anything the share holders get pissed and they can sue the company on the grounds of the execs not doing enough to protect the stock. The massive consumer backlash as given EA the chance to say "hey, share holders, this caused Spore to be pirated more if we remove it it just might help". It saves EA money as well because DRM is bloody expensive.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

I'm about ready to jump in the boat that PC sales are down/suffering over the past 10 years, because console sales are up over the past 10 years.

PC Sales increase year on year, this idea that the PC gaming industry is shrinking is just basically wrong.

why does this B.S persists. I am a prosecutor i have never any person steal something they did not want and unlike most traditional larceners most people who buy or trade in pirated goods, have the means to buy the real thing, but again it's hard to beat free or 80% discount.

Thats because piracy isn't stealing.

Stealing requires taking an original and depriving someone of that original, it's risky because it can only be done with physical goods and because there is risk involved people only steal things that are worth the risk.

With piracy (copyright infringement) there is little to no risk and so there doesn't need to be a good reason to download, if you suspect a game is bad but think theres a small posibility you'll like it then why not download? The idea that you know what games you will definitely like before you've tried them is absurd at best, many gamers download lots of games to try the product before they decide what to buy, then purchase an original copy if they like the game.

People pirating software then going out and buying it afterwards is probably more common than you realise, and whether a sale is made comes down to 2 things, how good the media is, and how expensive it is.

If you want to sell a digital product then make it honest really good for your target audience, forcing people to be online to play a singleplayer IS NOT GOOD, it's fucking stupid in fact and people respond to crap like this by not buying the product. Stardock did this with sins of the solar empire by not having any copy protection and they sold to their target figures and above. And its obvious why, because people who buy games don't want copy protection and people who buy games are the only protential audience you have.

Chasing after people who dont buy games is stupid ESPECIALLY when copy protection has been proven unable to stop piracy.

 

[Ragenrok]

If they don't do anything the share holders get pissed and they can sue the company on the grounds of the execs not doing enough to protect the stock. The massive consumer backlash as given EA the chance to say "hey, share holders, this caused Spore to be pirated more if we remove it it just might help". It saves EA money as well because DRM is bloody expensive.

\
oh i know im just saying that its kinda uselss. All a game needs is a cd key and a cd check so people cant just burn copies of a cd. Anything more is a waiste of company money as those that were going to pirate the game will pirate it anyways dispite the amount of drm on it.

 

[SockMan!]

At least BioWare gets it. DRM is unfortunately not going to die, so the best way to get people to accept it is to make people want it. In other words, create value instead of treating everyone like criminals with intrusive DRM that add nothing desirable for honest gamers.

Hence the reason why services like Steam, despite being a form of DRM itself, is popular and generally accepted; it creates value in the form of convenient digital distribution.

 

[Kidfinger]

I don't see how I would be scum if I tried something before I buy, and didn't buy it if I didn't like it. There is probably a good lot like that.

You are absolutely correct. Try it before you buy it. Play the demo. Thats what why they get released usually before the game ships to retail or digi distro.

 

[silent hero]

PC Sales increase year on year, this idea that the PC gaming industry is shrinking is just basically wrong.



Thats because piracy isn't stealing.

Stealing requires taking an original and depriving someone of that original, it's risky because it can only be done with physical goods and because there is risk involved people only steal things that are worth the risk.

I would consider the people who pirate games instead of buying them to be stealing the game by your definition. The problem is that there is no way to know the difference between the people who will never buy and the people who try the game before they buy. Demos exist for a reason and so the latter group of people shouldn't be messing with torrents in the first place.

With piracy (copyright infringement) there is little to no risk and so there doesn't need to be a good reason to download, if you suspect a game is bad but think theres a small posibility you'll like it then why not download?

As stated above, that's why demos and also the numerous game review sites exist.

The idea that you know what games you will definitely like before you've tried them is absurd at best, many gamers download lots of games to try the product before they decide what to buy, then purchase an original copy if they like the game.

"

People pirating software then going out and buying it afterwards is probably more common than you realise, and whether a sale is made comes down to 2 things, how good the media is, and how expensive it is.

If you want to sell a digital product then make it honest really good for your target audience, forcing people to be online to play a singleplayer IS NOT GOOD, it's fucking stupid in fact and people respond to crap like this by not buying the product. Stardock did this with sins of the solar empire by not having any copy protection and they sold to their target figures and above. And its obvious why, because people who buy games don't want copy protection and people who buy games are the only protential audience you have.

I agree.

Chasing after people who dont buy games is stupid ESPECIALLY when copy protection has been proven unable to stop piracy.

If people know that it's illegal in the first place then they are getting what they deserve.

 

[evilsofa]

Interestingly, Mass Effect PC has a General Protection Fault bug that has rendered many legit owners unable to play the game they bought. The thread about it has gone on for over half a year and no solution has been offered. Many people are voicing their discontent with Bioware's support over it.

http://meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=667518&forum=127&sp=105

I've been bitten by this bug just now, I get a GPF on the Prothean Skyway Elevator every time. Since this is a plot neccesary point I cannot finish the game!

Want to combat piracy? Make sure your games are playable!

Doesn't the 1.02 patch, released August 24 (which is certainly way, way, way too late) fix that?

 

[Unknown-One]

You are absolutely correct. Try it before you buy it. Play the demo. Thats what why they get released usually before the game ships to retail or digi distro.

You do realize not every game has a demo, right?

Can you show me where to download the GTA IV demo? I think not.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

You are absolutely correct. Try it before you buy it. Play the demo. Thats what why they get released usually before the game ships to retail or digi distro.

see thats the problem though.. you no longer see demo's of these over hyped games anymore.. you usually only see them for the mid range game dev's that are trying to build a customer base for an up coming game by releasing a demo..

I mean hell if it wasnt for the beta i wouldnt be buying section 8.. if it wasnt for the demo of darkest of days i wouldnt be planning to buy the game.. because in screenshots neither of those games looked interesting to me..

 

[ikarinokami]

PC Sales increase year on year, this idea that the PC gaming industry is shrinking is just basically wrong.



Thats because piracy isn't stealing.

Stealing requires taking an original and depriving someone of that original, it's risky because it can only be done with physical goods and because there is risk involved people only steal things that are worth the risk.

With piracy (copyright infringement) there is little to no risk and so there doesn't need to be a good reason to download, if you suspect a game is bad but think theres a small posibility you'll like it then why not download? The idea that you know what games you will definitely like before you've tried them is absurd at best, many gamers download lots of games to try the product before they decide what to buy, then purchase an original copy if they like the game.

People pirating software then going out and buying it afterwards is probably more common than you realise, and whether a sale is made comes down to 2 things, how good the media is, and how expensive it is.

If you want to sell a digital product then make it honest really good for your target audience, forcing people to be online to play a singleplayer IS NOT GOOD, it's fucking stupid in fact and people respond to crap like this by not buying the product. Stardock did this with sins of the solar empire by not having any copy protection and they sold to their target figures and above. And its obvious why, because people who buy games don't want copy protection and people who buy games are the only protential audience you have.

Chasing after people who dont buy games is stupid ESPECIALLY when copy protection has been proven unable to stop piracy.

lol, lol, lol. i had to laugh, the entire body of all known case law disagrees with you. stealing has nothing to risk. stealing is taking somthing for which you are not entitled to.

i personally don't know of a single person who pirated and then bought the original. common sense, economic theory, evolutionary theory, would tell you that would be rare.

stardock works because you can't get the patches without buying, and stardock patches are neccassary for the game, because they alter the game balance massively. a stardock game after a patch is not the same game you bought. the second reason stardock works, is because the games are low cost.

most things you buy in thise world cannot be seen, the fact that you can't try it before you buy it, is not a justification for stealing.

it's amazing how far people will go to rationalize stealing.

 

[Derangel]

lol, lol, lol. i had to laugh, the entire body of all known case law disagrees with you. stealing has nothing to risk. stealing is taking somthing for which you are not entitled to.

i personally don't know of a single person who pirated and then bought the original. common sense, economic theory, evolutionary theory, would tell you that would be rare.

stardock works because you can't get the patches without buying, and stardock patches are neccassary for the game, because they alter the game balance massively. a stardock game after a patch is not the same game you bought. the second reason stardock works, is because the games are low cost.

most things you buy in thise world cannot be seen, the fact that you can't try it before you buy it, is not a justification for stealing.

it's amazing how far people will go to rationalize stealing.

When I used to pirate games I would occasionally buy some really good ones. I've been tempted to go back and buy a bunch more games that I pirated years ago that I liked and discarded because they had no real value to me. It felt like it didn't matter because I didn't pay money for them so I had no drive to complete them. That was one of the big things that drove me away from piracy, no point in pirating games if I'm not playing them. Might as well buy them because I know I will eventually get around to playing and beating them.

 

[fallguy]

News flash, consoles have a LOT of warez too. Especially the 360. Followed by the PSP and Wii. The PS3 is the only one that is safe right now. Even the iphone/touch have a big problem with it.