Bioshock DRM

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Khanmots

Gawd
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May 12, 2007
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I know that they were loosening the restrictions some, but were they ever removed? Is there a 3rd party crack that removes the DRM crap?

It fell off my radar for a while... but I've been thinking of maybe purchasing it lately, but not if it's still full of DRM that I can't bypass.
 
Khanmots said:
I know that they were loosening the restrictions some, but were they ever removed? Is there a 3rd party crack that removes the DRM crap?

It fell off my radar for a while... but I've been thinking of maybe purchasing it lately, but not if it's still full of DRM that I can't bypass.
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The restrictions will be removed when the new-ness wears off, because they feel that when a game is new is when it is most likely going to lose potential sales to piracy. So to run into an issue, you'd need to reinstall more than 5 times before then. If it's too much, you can still take the high road and not buy it.
 
Thanatos, if it exists or not is all I was wanting to know, thanks :)

kelbear, do you have anything from 2kgames stating that the restrictions will be entirely removed (including removing the need to access the server), or is that just rumor? I'd about decided to give in and take the middle road of buying it and cracking it, but if they'll be removing the DRM crap themselves I'll just wait (and let the price fall more :p)
 
OK, so what did you want to talk about today in regards to these PC issues on BioShock?

Given the internets and what they are -- with their tubes and all -- I want to sort of talk about the concerns people have. We take the concerns people have very seriously. There's been some concern like, "What happens if it's three years from now, or ten years from now, when I want to play this game. And, you know, Irrational Games has been hit by a meteor?" We will unset the online activation at some point in the future -- we're not talking about when. If people have concern about that they shouldn't be worried about that. This activation is for the early period of the game when it's really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it. Of course, there are a lot of people who are legitimately trying to play it. We're not trying to be Draconian, we're trying to find a balance.

"Now the other big issue has been the copy protection, what can you tell us about that?

Basically the copy protection, everything about how it works is exactly what you'll see in other titles like Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Tomb Raider: Anniversary, Command & Conquer 3, Harry Potter. The only thing we have is online activation now. But that just does a check with a server and validates the installation. Right now we have a set number of installs and, frankly, it's too low. We screwed up. We analyzed where we were and we'll up the number of installs. We've also had a bunch of screw-ups along the way, I won't mince words -- these are real screw-ups. We had the activation server crash and we didn't have a proper procedure to be notified by it to fix it. So we've had meetings all week on how to fix these screw-ups. And we're fixing them. People can't activate their key, I dig that people are pissed off, and I understand it. Here we are day one of the European launch and day four of the American and we're working every single day working on these issues. I believe people deserve to play the game.

Now putting this PC issue to rest. Is there anything you'd like to add that we wouldn't know to ask you or you'd like to add?

There have been some concerns that the copy protection was something nobody had ever seen before, except for the online procedure, there's nothing different. There's nothing wacky going on there, at some point we'll move back from online activation. If people want to play BioShock ten years from now, they'll be able to play it. We have a commitment from 2K that that is going to happen and we'll hold them to that commitment and they're serious about it, we'll make that happen."
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http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/24/joystiq-interviews-bioshocks-ken-levine-about-success-and-harve/
 
Khanmots said:
I know that they were loosening the restrictions some, but were they ever removed? Is there a 3rd party crack that removes the DRM crap?

It fell off my radar for a while... but I've been thinking of maybe purchasing it lately, but not if it's still full of DRM that I can't bypass.
Click to expand...

The game is worth the purchase. You won't be disappointed.
 
Spawn85 said:
The game is worth the purchase. You won't be disappointed.
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Oh, I've got no doubt that the game is fun as hell. However, to me the SecuRom crap is a deal breaker.

I take a strong stance on DRM and related stuff. For instance I haven't bought anything from an RIAA label for around 8 years now. I've had the fun of finding independent artists instead.

The day that I find out that 2kgames has removed the SecuRom is the day I buy bioshock. I've been debating buying it and cracking it, but I'm not wanting to reward this kind of behavior. So... I guess no bioshock for me, I'll go buy a 360 and halo3 or something.
 
Bioshock on the 360 has no DRM issues since the 360 already has the DRM.
 
Another option is to buy it via Steam. That way the only DRM is that it's tied to your Steam acct.

I used this method to avoid the horrible StarForce DRM on Trackmania United. The Steam version doesn't have it, avoiding a lot of problems.
 
Actually i heard that the steam version still has the activation crap but i havent ever gotten a confirmed yes or no on this.
 
Thanatos. said:
Actually i heard that the steam version still has the activation crap but i havent ever gotten a confirmed yes or no on this.
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Well, Steam itself is all about DRM: without logging into Steam first, the game doesn't work. I'm just saying if you're going to deal with DRM, might as well deal with one unified DRM solution (Steam) rather than stuff that'll ruin your PC (StarForce).
 
I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but the SecuRom bullshit completely put me off on getting the game.... legally.
If I buy a game legally, I expect to be able to install/play it on as many computers and as many times as I want. Fuck that!
 
The18thLetter said:
I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but the SecuRom bullshit completely put me off on getting the game.... legally.
If I buy a game legally, I expect to be able to install/play it on as many computers and as many times as I want. Fuck that!
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Read the rules, even hinting that you pirated a game is against the rules. This is a valid subject, but you need to watch what you say.

I hate alot of this DRM crap also. Some of it will degrade your performance and even cause problems with other programs. I think with Steam even tho you have to activate the game you dont have all the disk verification crap that hurts the performance like you do with Starforce and Securom. But I also dont see why Game makers even use any DRM, its defeated before the game even hits the shelves, systems like Steam do cut down on piracy but there not perfect either. I mean even MMORPGs like Star Wars Galaxies have been pirated with hacked servers and such. This day and age you either learn to live with it, or you quit gaming.
 
I'm not going to pirate it, but I wont buy it until the activation/DRM is removed. Sucks too, cuz I really want to play it.
 
i don't notice anything wrong w/ my pc since installing bioshock from the retail dvd. until i get a catastophic failure directly related to the securom on the bioshock dvd, i will confidently say "don't believe everything you read" no matter how intellegent someone on a forum thinks they are.
 
Scalpel said:
Another option is to buy it via Steam. That way the only DRM is that it's tied to your Steam acct.

I used this method to avoid the horrible StarForce DRM on Trackmania United. The Steam version doesn't have it, avoiding a lot of problems.
Click to expand...

No. Steam version also has SecuROM and install limits.
 
HotShotMedic said:
i don't notice anything wrong w/ my pc since installing bioshock from the retail dvd. until i get a catastophic failure directly related to the securom on the bioshock dvd, i will confidently say "don't believe everything you read" no matter how intellegent someone on a forum thinks they are.
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I don't think you understand what this copy protection system is, otherwise you wouldn't have said that.
You have install limits that work per user, per hardware fingerprint and per OS installs. And that's only 5 installs max. Unistalling the game, does NOT get your install credits back, as was said by 2K, which, just like the so called "revoke tool", was just a smokescreen.
Above all that, there's no mention in the EULA or even the box of the game, about SecuROM or any measure it enforces i.e. install limits. SecuROM stays on your PC, after the game was unistalled. Also, the files used by SecuROM are updated daily, even after the game was unistalled, which leads us to the question: why is it being updated ? And with what ? (since you already uninstalled the game).

It's not about crashes, it's about security. If you're ok with that and bought the game, then I'm afraid these measures are just a start of a very dark future for PC Gaming.
 
Silus said:
IAlso, the files used by SecuROM are updated daily, even after the game was unistalled, which leads us to the question: why is it being updated ? And with what ? (since you already uninstalled the game).

It's not about crashes, it's about security. If you're ok with that and bought the game, then I'm afraid these measures are just a start of a very dark future for PC Gaming.
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You sure securom updates 'daily' ? I've never heard of that. There's no running process or service relating to securom. It's only used when you start up the game as far as I'm aware. And it's not a rootkit either so there's no rootkit related security threat.

Only if you run your own PC with a 'special' account with no admin rights does a service get installed to allow securom to run with admin rights. But only a 'special' person would run their own PC with limited rights.
 
TheToE! said:
I'm not going to pirate it, but I wont buy it until the activation/DRM is removed. Sucks too, cuz I really want to play it.
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Glad to see I'm not the only one :D

Now if only we weren't a minority... :(

As for the people hinting that they'll just pirate it instead and get it for free without the DRM crap... well... we see how great DRM works now don't we? :rolleyes:

Personally, I'll just support a different publisher, there's lots of games out there and only so many hours in a day... and hell, lately I've started being pleasantly surprised with some companies choosing to forego any DRM, even CD checks! :cool:
 
The18thLetter said:
I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but the SecuRom bullshit completely put me off on getting the game.... legally.
If I buy a game legally, I expect to be able to install/play it on as many computers and as many times as I want. Fuck that!
Click to expand...

You have more then 5 computers?

Anyways, OP, go out on a limb and buy the game, it is by far worth it. I would have paid $100 for the game judging by comparing to games I have paid $50 for lately. BioShock is one of those games that will be a legend just like System Shock, Half Life, Unreal, etc.
 
People seriously not getting it just because of this inflated DRM hysteria are only hurting themselves.

It's so totally not a big deal. Just buy it, install it, play it. I'm pretty sure you'll have completed it before you've felt the need to uninstall and reinstall it 5 times. And that 5 times is now more like 10 times and that only applies to a short time period. It's not 10 times ever as far as I'm aware.


It sounds to me that certain people are just using this as some kind of moral excuse to pirate the game and not pay for it.
 
spine said:
People seriously not getting it just because of this inflated DRM hysteria are only hurting themselves.

It's so totally not a big deal. Just buy it, install it, play it. I'm pretty sure you'll have completed it before you've felt the need to uninstall and reinstall it 5 times. And that 5 times is now more like 10 times and that only applies to a short time period. It's not 10 times ever as far as I'm aware.


It sounds to me that certain people are just using this as some kind of moral excuse to pirate the game and not pay for it.
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There's far more games that I'm interested in than I have time to play. Not getting to play Bioshock isn't going to deprive me of anything, I'll simply play something else instead.

As for if the 5 times is going to affect me, that's not the point; I find the whole idea of this type of DRM repugnant regardless.

On a side note, it most definately would have affected me, although I didn't know that at the time I initially decided not to buy it. Due to hardware issues and shipping issues and other fun I got to install/reinstall a couple flavors of windows around 8 times over the course of a month. The initial 2 installs allowed would have let me play it less than a week. Joy.

As for people using it as a moral excuse to pirate... ok... and that has what bearing? You're right, there most likely is a subset of people doing that, (which is one of the most hillariously ironic things I've run across in a while... a DRM scheme that works to introduce *new* people to the pirate scene!) but... saying that you shouldn't take a stance because other's who claim to take the same stance are morally corrupt is a flawed arguement.
 
Khanmots said:
...but... saying that you shouldn't take a stance because other's who claim to take the same stance are morally corrupt is a flawed arguement.
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Lucky thing I never made that argument then.


But seriously, I'm just saying that not playing what is undoubtedly a truly great and rare game just because of some non harmful and 'overly whinged about on net forums' DRM stuff is silly.

And before you contest the "non harmful" part of my argument, please provide some real world evidence of the harm it does. Restricting number of installs to a set number of machines I don't class as harmful, merely short sighted. No worse than a game written for Directx5 that doesn't run properly anymore because it can't detect the dx version properly.

Securom is nothing new and few bitched about that back when it appeared. It was seen exactly as it is, a means to ensure you're using the original and legitimate rom media. The only 'harm' this does is make life hard if you want to back up your dvd to an iso and run off the hard drive. Frankly I think this is a small price to pay. You can always eject the dvd once the game has loaded if the drive noise is bothersome.
 
I installed Windows on a second drive and put Bioshock and its DRM on that.
I got my pie and ate it :)
 
Nenu said:
I installed Windows on a second drive and put Bioshock and its DRM on that.
I got my pie and ate it :)
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You do realize what DRM is and is not right? The Digitial Rights Management that BioShock uses runs only when BioShock is run. It's not some service, driver, or anything that runs in the background. It is all built into BioShock. Nothing more. It used to be called copy protection and has been around for 25yrs on computer software.

LOL, installed Windows on a second drive and put Bioshock on there....
 
Had I known about the activation limitations imposed with this game I would never have purchased it. I tried to return it the day after release but as it was open (no mention of the DRM or activation limitations on the box) GameStop would not take it back, despite my showing proof that 2K/Irrational broke their own EULA by means of the activation limit. I also called 2K directly and asked for a refund, explaining I would be willing to mail them the game and proof of purchase -- they hung up on me. I was completely civil, but they did not want to hear what I had to say. I will not be buying any of their future releases if this sort of DRM continues to be used.
 
Scalpel said:
Well, Steam itself is all about DRM: without logging into Steam first, the game doesn't work. I'm just saying if you're going to deal with DRM, might as well deal with one unified DRM solution (Steam) rather than stuff that'll ruin your PC (StarForce).
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I'm fine with Steam. It has DRM but it actually helps instead of hurts honest users. Other companies should take note, or just distribute through steam. The last thing we need is 4,000 steam wannabes like EA's thing.
 
spine said:
People seriously not getting it just because of this inflated DRM hysteria are only hurting themselves.

It's so totally not a big deal. Just buy it, install it, play it. I'm pretty sure you'll have completed it before you've felt the need to uninstall and reinstall it 5 times. And that 5 times is now more like 10 times and that only applies to a short time period. It's not 10 times ever as far as I'm aware.


It sounds to me that certain people are just using this as some kind of moral excuse to pirate the game and not pay for it.
Click to expand...

I bought it. I can take pictures of the box and disc if for whatever reason you don't believe this. I was furious at the limitations imposed by this latest version of SecuRom. When I buy software I expect to own the software, not rent it until such time as the company decides they want to hand over the proverbial title. I tried to return it and couldn't. Yes, it's a good game -- I've played it, since I couldn't get rid of it -- but I will not buy /any/ title with this sort of protection, now or in the future. That doesn't mean I will pirate those titles. It means I have things I'm willing to pay for and things I'm not. Two activations of a $50 game falls squarely in the second category. So does 5 activations. So does 10. Activation itself is not the issue for me -- I understand the need to protect intellectual property -- but this borders on a moral issue for me. I feel it's something we need to stop now, before it goes any farther, and the only way to do that is via consumer pressure. Lots of it.
 
spine said:
Lucky thing I never made that argument then.


But seriously, I'm just saying that not playing what is undoubtedly a truly great and rare game just because of some non harmful and 'overly whinged about on net forums' DRM stuff is silly.

And before you contest the "non harmful" part of my argument, please provide some real world evidence of the harm it does. Restricting number of installs to a set number of machines I don't class as harmful, merely short sighted. No worse than a game written for Directx5 that doesn't run properly anymore because it can't detect the dx version properly.

Securom is nothing new and few bitched about that back when it appeared. It was seen exactly as it is, a means to ensure you're using the original and legitimate rom media. The only 'harm' this does is make life hard if you want to back up your dvd to an iso and run off the hard drive. Frankly I think this is a small price to pay. You can always eject the dvd once the game has loaded if the drive noise is bothersome.
Click to expand...

Real world evidence of the harm it does?

If I had bought it, I would have spent weeks unable to play it due to a combination of trying to move in the middle of troubleshooting hardware problems with a new build (you watn to talk about shipping delays...) and having issues with the phone lines in my new place (took 2 weeks to get service... and more importantly dsl...) this SecuRom crap would have been a serious problem.

It's rather telling that any of my other games ranging from MOO2 to Oblivion, I could install, copy save games off my USB stick, and game for a day or two... (backing up saves) until I got to go through the process of reinstalling windows yet again...

As for silly or not silly... yeah, it is a bit. However, it's not like bioshock is the only game out there... there's lots of other games I'll have just as much fun playing.
 
Met-AL said:
You do realize what DRM is and is not right? The Digitial Rights Management that BioShock uses runs only when BioShock is run. It's not some service, driver, or anything that runs in the background. It is all built into BioShock. Nothing more. It used to be called copy protection and has been around for 25yrs on computer software.

LOL, installed Windows on a second drive and put Bioshock on there....
Click to expand...

Thanks for calling me out but you really need to think before posting.
If I reinstall my normal windows installation, I still have the other one with Bioshock so dont need to reinstall and lose installation licences.
Using another windows installation solves a few issues, and who are you to say what I should do when I have found an excellent solution that I am happy with.

Ps I used to work for a copy protection company so I have an excellent knowledge of DRM and how it works.
There are things you dont know that cannot be discussed so dont be such a wise ass!

lol :)
 
s_s256 said:
Bioshock's DRM was cracked in 1-2 weeks after it was released.
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Actually 1-2 days after its US release which was dead on the EU release.

Basically the DRM didn't force the pirates to wait any longer than the EU customers, you've gotta ask yourself if this whole debacle was worth it?
 
The DRM copy protection is marketed to increase sales at release time.
As the time before a crack was released was so low, it doesnt look like it worked out too well for Bioshock.

However, the fact that something is being done to prevent copies being made that is even partially effective keeps certain departments/managers employed!
It also means that further funding will be given to refine the DRM solution so that the protection can be more effective without impacting the consumer as much.
I think that Steams method is more or less the holy grail for them as long as internet access is guaranteed.

If it wasnt for the public backlash about current DRM, we would have a much worse situation so I'm glad there are debates such as this.
Personally I want to see the end of DRM as I want full control over what is on my PC and how I use software/media that I have purchased.
Not to mention the invasion of my PC with software that can operate without my knowledge or consent and storage of data that cannot be accessed by the PCs owner.
The extra layer on top of Bioshocks DRM limiting the number of PCs it can be used on pisses me off as I feel the game is rented to me.
 
Silus said:
I don't think you understand what this copy protection system is, otherwise you wouldn't have said that.
You have install limits that work per user, per hardware fingerprint and per OS installs.
Above all that, there's no mention in the EULA or even the box of the game, about SecuROM or any measure it enforces i.e. install limits. SecuROM stays on your PC, after the game was unistalled. Also, the files used by SecuROM are updated daily, even after the game was unistalled, which leads us to the question: why is it being updated ? And with what ? (since you already uninstalled the game).

It's not about crashes, it's about security. If you're ok with that and bought the game, then I'm afraid these measures are just a start of a very dark future for PC Gaming.
Click to expand...

Prove it. Those are pretty far out statements, especially the one about it updating daily even though bioshock is uninstalled. PROVE IT.
Again, people aren't as smart as they may think they sound on the INTERNET.
And I don't really give a shit anyway. I already played through it twice. It will probably be the last time for a long time. Loved it! Install and enjoy.
 
HotShotMedic said:
Prove it. Those are pretty far out statements, especially the one about it updating daily even though bioshock is uninstalled. PROVE IT.
Again, people aren't as smart as they may think they sound on the INTERNET.
And I don't really give a shit anyway. I already played through it twice. It will probably be the last time for a long time. Loved it! Install and enjoy.
Click to expand...

Plenty of proof here:

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12909
 
Nenu said:
Thanks for calling me out but you really need to think before posting.
If I reinstall my normal windows installation, I still have the other one with Bioshock so dont need to reinstall and lose installation licences.
Using another windows installation solves a few issues, and who are you to say what I should do when I have found an excellent solution that I am happy with.

Ps I used to work for a copy protection company so I have an excellent knowledge of DRM and how it works.
There are things you dont know that cannot be discussed so dont be such a wise ass!

lol :)
Click to expand...

LINK
 
Khanmots said:
I know that they were loosening the restrictions some, but were they ever removed? Is there a 3rd party crack that removes the DRM crap?

It fell off my radar for a while... but I've been thinking of maybe purchasing it lately, but not if it's still full of DRM that I can't bypass.
Click to expand...

Have YOU had any problems with the DRM on Bioshock?
 
Comte said:
Have YOU had any problems with the DRM on Bioshock?
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I've already detailed my experiences or lack thereof with the DRM.

Long story short, I didn't purchase it due to the DRM, and if I had it would have most definately have caused me problems. Read my other posts if you want to know more details.
 
Yea, he said he had to install Windows 8 times, so he would have probably run into a problem with the 5 times BioShock can be installed. Definately would have been a call to 2K's tech support on that one.

Sheesh, I coudn't imagine installing Windows 8 times in a month or whatever. I have the original version of XP and it's the time to install, then the hours of patching aftwards. Arg, your pain must be great. Thankfully I am on my same install from April of 2006, with a little help from Symantec Ghost 9.
 
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