BigWater 745?

S

sativa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
429
Disclaimer: This isn't the older BigWater or BigWater SE...
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Liguid/DIY/cl-w0076/cl-w0076.asp

This one features a 400 L/hr pump and 3/8" tubing.

I can get it for $135 right now.. should I bite? I'm considering a DangerDen Acetal Maze4 [http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-blc-183.html] for my 6800 Ultra to go w/ the system.

I'm using a Thermaltake Kandalf case so I know the pump and resevoir will fit into my system.. I'm hoping to ditch the single 120mm RAD and just use the dual 120mm by attaching it to the case somehow... [According to this review, the system cooled better w/ only the large rad vs both the large & the small]
 
just piece together a real watercooling setup...you will not regret it and it will out perform ANY thermaltake kit.
 
grinchy said:
just piece together a real watercooling setup...you will not regret it and it will out perform ANY thermaltake kit.
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and what information are you basing this on ? Sounds like you just having something against TT
 
sativa said:
and what information are you basing this on ? Sounds like you just having something against TT
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i don't know what he's basing it on, but for myself: multi pass rad design in the Tt vs. one or two pass in high performance rads. aluminium fins in the thermaltake rads vs copper fins in most popular rads like those made by swiftech, HW labs and thermochill. cheap to manufacture but poor performing snaking channels in the waterblock, vs much better optimized designs from any of the enthusiast oriented brands. and finally, the pump.......400 l/h or no, head pressure is usually what makes the biggest difference, and Tt does not provide numbers on how much it deals out. probably around 6 feet of head, but that's just a guess, and the DDC dishes out 13 feet. even barring that, enough people have had them die after a few months that i just wouldn't want to deal with one.

as for having something against Tt: they heavily fudge their noise ratings. that alone should be enough reason not to deal with them. why on earth would you give money to a company that lies to you about their products? a Tt 21 dB rating would be 35 dB if that product was sold by other vendors.

if you're looking to build on a budget, poking around the FS/FT forum might be a good place to get started.
 
yeah people had the older pumps die on them... you're saying that the newer pumps have died on people also?
 
sativa said:
If I do build myself.. whats a good place to buy my parts online?
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Jab-tech is kickass, but they didn't have everything I needed. FrozenCPU has a damn good selection (IMO), but their prices are a bit higher. Also, check out the FS/FT forums here. You can find alot of good deals on second hands gear.
 
sativa said:
yeah people had the older pumps die on them... you're saying that the newer pumps have died on people also?
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you may be correct on that point. i don't remember a pump failure in the 745. it was the pumps included with other bigwater kits that failed.

i would be suprised if this one was more reliable, however i don't have the user feedback to back that up.

at the same, if you shop around and use used some equipment, you really can build a good system on the cheap. it's not like a machined piece of copper such as the block deteriorates after even a few years of use. same goes for rads. anything that has aluminium in it is going to break down, even it it's slow, but copper and brass parts should last for decades.

as an aside: i envy you your cheetah.
 
sativa said:
If I do build myself.. whats a good place to buy my parts online?
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http://www.petrastechshop.com/


here is a kickass setup:

cpu block:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swstexpeunwa.html
$80.00

gpu block:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/q.html
$45.00

radiator:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenblicext1.html
$58.00

pump:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenlad5in1.html
$75.00

tubing:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/7id5odmagepu.html
$5.00

t-connector:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/1odtf1and7id.html
$2.00

fillport for t-line:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/madeficap.html
$9.00

water additive:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swhyexduco.html
$3.00


total:
$276.79 plus shipping

This would be 1 helluva watercooling setup and would literally blow away ANYTHING that TT has to offer....if you want more info goto:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

and read the stickies:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75873

the people in there are HELLA smart! trust me TT watercooling setup is not a whole lot better than their big typhoon...read the links above and you shall see the light... :)
 
DFI Daishi said:
you may be correct on that point. i don't remember a pump failure in the 745. it was the pumps included with other bigwater kits that failed.

i would be suprised if this one was more reliable, however i don't have the user feedback to back that up.

at the same, if you shop around and use used some equipment, you really can build a good system on the cheap. it's not like a machined piece of copper such as the block deteriorates after even a few years of use. same goes for rads. anything that has aluminium in it is going to break down, even it it's slow, but copper and brass parts should last for decades.

as an aside: i envy you your cheetah.
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Thanks for the reply.

Yeah the cheetah has served me very, very well. I just wish it was a tad bigger. Oh well :D
 
grinchy said:
and read the stickies:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75873

the people in there are HELLA smart! trust me TT watercooling setup is not a whole lot better than their big typhoon...read the links above and you shall see the light... :)
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Thanks for the links!

After reading some stuff at XtremeSystems, I couldn't find a single reason for them bashing the Bigwater 745. If any evidence was given besides "TT sucks" it had to do with the 1/4" tubing (bigwater 745 doesn't have that) or the shitty pump (745 has a different/more powerful pump).

So it seems like they just hate the original bigwaters and therefor, in their minds, the 745 must also suck.

Its just more of the same stuff.. bashing the 745 because of the flaws in the earlier models. I need something a little more than "TT sux cause its popular to say on our forums!!"
 
?

Did you read the article? Because there's a pretty clear reason why they gave the system a 2 rating. It leaked! :eek:

Also, how much do you plan to spend on the Bigwater 745 kit? Other members are simply saying you could go with a much better kit for the same price.

But I have a hunch that you already bought it :)
 
CoW]8(0) said:
?

Did you read the article? Because there's a pretty clear reason why they gave the system a 2 rating. It leaked! :eek:

Also, how much do you plan to spend on the Bigwater 745 kit? Other members are simply saying you could go with a much better kit for the same price.

But I have a hunch that you already bought it :)
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what article?

No, i haven't bought it, but I can find it for $135... which is damn cheap.
And if this article (which I can't seem to find on this page) did have it leak, its the first i've heard of anyone having a leek problem w/ the 745.
 
sativa said:
what article?

No, i haven't bought it, but I can find it for $135... which is damn cheap.
And if this article (which I can't seem to find on this page) did have it leak, its the first i've heard of anyone having a leek problem w/ the 745.
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it's maximum PC that gave it a two.

then there's this guy's block: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1060174

threading a tapered fitting into a ridgid plastic like polycarbonate stresses the plastic and makes it very likely that it will eventually crack. Tt is not the only manufacturer guilty of this.......
 
Thermaltake sucks. I base it on owning it. What more does one need for having an opinion? My cracked Thermaltake CPU block soaked one of my videocards.
 
DarthBeavis said:
Thermaltake sucks. I base it on owning it. What more does one need for having an opinion? My cracked Thermaltake CPU block soaked one of my videocards.
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do you know if thats the same block used in the 745 ? I know that at least the fittings are different.
 
I would not use any Thermaltake block as they have the same type of construction. If you go with a Thermaltake solution PLEASE use some other vendors block (DD or Swiftech).
Suck:

Not suck:
 
if you can not do it now for $200.00 then wait until you can...seriously when it comes to water..don't cut corners and get garbage..get something that is tested/tried and true and has a proven track record of not having issues..
 
grinchy said:
if you can not do it now for $200.00 then wait until you can...seriously when it comes to water..don't cut corners and get garbage..get something that is tested/tried and true and has a proven track record of not having issues..
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I've seen plenty of ~good~ reviews on some of the TT kits as well. I'm still looking for good evidence that for $130 (or $110 for the bigwater SE, for instance) you're not getting good cooling. No, it won't cool as good as the $276 kit you quoted, but it didn't COST $276 either, and it's better than most air solutions, and gives you something to start with.
 
correct you will have something to start with and can get you feet wet to watercooling (no pun intended) the 1st water cooling kit I bought was a swiftech apex extreme kit with a rad box etc...thought about thermaltakes route and all I heard was a resounding "hell no" from all the people at xtremesystems...these guys are hardcore and they know good from bad so I listened to them...I tell you what post this same question at xtremesystems and see what they say and what advice they give you...
 
lopoetve said:
I've seen plenty of ~good~ reviews on some of the TT kits as well. I'm still looking for good evidence that for $130 (or $110 for the bigwater SE, for instance) you're not getting good cooling. No, it won't cool as good as the $276 kit you quoted, but it didn't COST $276 either, and it's better than most air solutions, and gives you something to start with.
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What more evidence do you need:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029492271&postcount=17
 
Well, just another thread going in a bad direction :rolleyes:

But here's the bottom line, if you go with this kit, you'll want something better later on. It happens to everyone who WCs in these forums. And in the end you'll end up spending more because you'll be making an entirely new kit from scratch and having the old kit in a closet somewhere. The reason everyone recommends better equipment is mainly because you have a much easier upgrade path. You'll be able to swap out parts without having to replace everything else. And you'll more likely stay happy.

Also, don't plan on getting much back if you sell a used entrance WCs kit like this, they depreciate MUCH faster than higher end WC equipment. Once you turn the pump on in the Bigwater kit, no one will be willing to buy it for more than half its retail value.
 
sativa said:
The problem w/ grinchy 's suggestions is that I really want to aim for < $200 bucks.

Pump: http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadencs12vop.html [$50]
CPU Block: http://www.petrastechshop.com/swstexpeunwa.html [$80]
GPU Block: http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenma4gpum.html [$45]
Ram Sinks: http://www.petrastechshop.com/oczprbgaraco.html [$14]
Radiator: [url[/url] [$45]

I just can't do it for <$200
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we can pick one out for cheaper than that, the cpu block does not have to be 80 bucks..
Aslo get something like a black Ice pro or black ice pro 2 not extreme unless you want to use 100 cfm fans,
 
I am assuming that this post was for feedback and advice..you have gotten what you are after have you not?
 
lopoetve said:
I can link you to dead ASUS boards, to cracked Swiftech blocks, to dead BFG video cards...

Does that mean any of those companies suck?
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Take my advice or not, if you get a TT kit, buy a differnt set of waterblocks. I heard the warnings before I did and chose not to listen.
 
Actually the Swiftech H20-120 kits and the Corsair COOL kits which are based off of them are quite good and retail for about $170-180.
 
Thanks for all the replies. This kind of discussion was exactly what I was looking for.

I'm still debating what to do.

I like the fact that for ~$180 I can get the Bigwater 745 & a Maze4 GPU block and be done with it. Then later I can get a different radiator/cpu block/whatever down the line. This is an attractive option because I am new to watercooling. I really like the fact that the pump/resevoir are basically just 1 unit and i can bolt them inside my Kandalf case.

On the other hand, I could just bite the bullet and go for the full 1/2" tube custom setup. Its more expensive, more time consuming for me to install and troubleshoot, but I'll get better performance.

Keep up the discussion but please don't get angry at each other. Its just an exchange of ideas :D.

Thanks
 
thecoldanddarkone said:
we can pick one out for cheaper than that, the cpu block does not have to be 80 bucks..
Aslo get something like a black Ice pro or black ice pro 2 not extreme unless you want to use 100 cfm fans,
Click to expand...

and you're still not getting a full kit with instructions, warranty, etc. it's parts, not a system, and for those of us new to this, it's not only daunting, but not something we really want to approach.

You don't build your first computer with all brand new, top of the line equipment... you build something older and slower first. Then you move up, once you figure out what it is that you need.
 
DarthBeavis said:
Take my advice or not, if you get a TT kit, buy a differnt set of waterblocks. I heard the warnings before I did and chose not to listen.
Click to expand...

I probably will eventually. But for now, I've got a Bigwater SE that I'm going to install and see how it works, and I'll go from there.
 
relax budy, I am not dissing the idea of using thermaltake. A matter of fact I am trying to come up with better options, I am not going to give something like a 280 bill without shipping. I am trying to fit it in his budget. phew. key words, trying I don't know if its possible though. I am making putting some numbers together right now.

One more thing I own a koolance setup that is 1/4 inch. I don't use it right now, because I am going to upgrade to a swiftech storm (only because that was part of the computer package which will be shipped tommorrow) and a bix 3 with a swiftech mcp 350. It doesn't mean I am critisizing you at all.
 
thecoldanddarkone said:
relax budy, I am not dissing the idea of using thermaltake. A matter of fact I am trying to come up with better options, I am not going to give something like a 280 bill without shipping. I am trying to fit it in his budget. phew. key words, trying I don't know if its possible though. I am making putting some numbers together right now.

One more thing I own a koolance setup that is 1/4 inch. I don't use it right now, because I am going to upgrade to a swiftech storm (only because that was part of the computer package which will be shipped tommorrow) and a bix 3 with a swiftech mcp 350. It doesn't mean I am critisizing you at all.
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Didn't take it that way, the last comment was in good humor and cheerful. My WC kit is sitting on my lap, and it's gonna be fun to play with. :)

See, I don't even ~know~ what 1/4 vs 3/8 etc does for performance or anything :-p I just know I got a good deal on something I've wanted to try and play with. If it works well, I'll build a nice custom setup. If not, I'll find a way of making my XP-120 work better.
 
Dude you should get the blocks you want the first time around. Trust me DO NOT SKIMP ON THE BLOCKS. You are already getting a Maze 4 GPU block, just get a matching block for your CPU. Also, note that good tubing like Tygon will not work with TT fittings. Use the TT tubing for best performance with your TT kit.

I have a full Big Water SE in my wife's rig:
 
I would say a good block is not a bad idea, but a swiftech storm and a tdx has very little difference, probably a couple degrees difference at the most.

well this is what I have come up with so far, I am going to have to look a little harder
all of it is from danger den
15 for a fan (I guess this would be going rate?)
1.75 y fitting
11.95 fillport.
24.95 bi pro 1
44.99 csp mag
52.95 copper tdx
9.75 plastic clamps 13 pieces
12.50 10 ft clearflex tubbing
45 gpu block that you picked out
4.5 zerex
223.34 total without shipping, I tried, I will try a little more.
someone tell me if I forgot something,

Now for my personal opinion first I don't know the case you are using so I can't really gage the radiator very well. I personally would get a double radiator myself. Also the pump the csp mag, I would probably get the ddc for 75 or d5 for 75 instead. Also the water block for the cpu, I would spend a few more dollars somewhere else.

the guy under me also has a good idea, look in the fs/ft forum.
 
It wouldn't be too hard to piece together a system from used parts if you take the time to scoure the FST forum. I did one for ~$150.
An AquaExtreme 50z pump - $50
Swiftech MCW6002 - $35
BIP2 - $25
Masterkleer 7/16" tubing - $8.50
2 Panaflo 120mm M1A fans - $15
Radbox - $15.
 
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