BFG ex-1200 or the PC&C 910

Noetic

Noetic

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 11, 2001
Messages
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I will probably be purchasing a new high end psu this afternoon. I would like for it to be the end all for my present and future multi-GPU, 10 HD main system. The additional power, lifetime warranty have me leaning toward the BFG..... but the quality and single rail stability of the 910 does give pause for thought.

Any BFG ex-1200 users out there with an opinion?

any thoughts?
david
 
As a note, I will eventually upgrade to an i7 with this supply, if that should matter.
 
Single rail stability? Here's a tip, don't always believe FUD from someone who is trying to sell you their product.
What about the Corsair HX850 or Zalman ZM1000-HP
 
Supposedly the 1000 and 1200 are different animals. Tweaktown liked the 1200 unit, but I am concerned... After my FSP issues a couple of years ago, I have reservations on large PSU purchases. It is that I do need one, and will have to order it tomorrow morning.
 
Noetic said:
Supposedly the 1000 and 1200 are different animals. Tweaktown liked the 1200 unit, but I am concerned...
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The unit Tweaktown tested looks identical to the 1000W model that Oklahoma Wolf reviewed. There are issues with Tweaktown's methodology as well. They only tested the PSU up to a 1000W load, and they did not measure ripple on the secondary rails (which were the problematic ones in Oklahoma Wolf's review - they were way out of spec by the final test). Based on these results, I have to revoke my recommendation of the EX-1200 unless some explanation of these results is provided.
 
I popped over to jonnyguru to read the threads.... A bit disconcerting. Just...... great.....

Any recommendations? circa 1200W under 300 USD.

david
 
Well, my top recommendation would be the Enermax Galaxy Evo 1250W, except it's around $350. The 1050W model is currently $266 after mail-in rebate if you're willing to go down in wattage a bit. There's also the Ikonik Vulcan 1200W which is based on a new CWT platform and is a very good performer, although again, it's a bit above your budget. If you're willing to go down to 1100W and deal with a non-modular PSU, this Coolermaster UCP 1100W is a pretty good unit and will fit within your budget.

Out of those options, my preference would be for one of the Enermaxes, followed by the Ikonik.
 
Zero82z said:
The unit Tweaktown tested looks identical to the 1000W model that Oklahoma Wolf reviewed. There are issues with Tweaktown's methodology as well. They only tested the PSU up to a 1000W load, and they did not measure ripple on the secondary rails (which were the problematic ones in Oklahoma Wolf's review - they were way out of spec by the final test). Based on these results, I have to revoke my recommendation of the EX-1200 unless some explanation of these results is provided.
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There is some question in my mind that the two review units I received were even working properly. One wasn't for sure, because 12V3 ripple exceeded 300mV by full power, and the other one agreed with the obviously defective one on the 3.3V/5V rail scope shots yet stayed mostly in spec on the 12's.

I'm anticipating more reviews on this unit so I can make some kind of determination on whether or not my one "good" sample was/is working properly. Right now I just don't know.
 
Oklahoma Wolf said:
There is some question in my mind that the two review units I received were even working properly. One wasn't for sure, because 12V3 ripple exceeded 300mV by full power, and the other one agreed with the obviously defective one on the 3.3V/5V rail scope shots yet stayed mostly in spec on the 12's.

I'm anticipating more reviews on this unit so I can make some kind of determination on whether or not my one "good" sample was/is working properly. Right now I just don't know.
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Yes, I understand exactly what you mean. Until we find out exactly what the story is though, I don't feel comfortable recommending any EX PSUs in case there really is a problem. I know Paul has an EX-1000 at the moment, so we'll see what kind of results he gets out of it once his review is up.
 
The temperature the exhaust got too wasn't too encouraging either. What worries me is the fact that Joe consumer won't know if they get a faulty unit ripple wise....unless their components start giving up the ghost.

Does the unit have to be 1200W? Since you were looking at a 910W unit, I assumed that was not a requirement. What are you planning to run?

I will go back and recommend again the Zalman ZM1000-HP, Coolermaster Realpower Pro 1000W and the Corsair HX1000. All of them are considerably below $300 now.
 
HOOfan_1 said:
The temperature the exhaust got too wasn't too encouraging either. What worries me is the fact that Joe consumer won't know if they get a faulty unit ripple wise....unless their components start giving up the ghost.

Does the unit have to be 1200W? Since you were looking at a 910W unit, I assumed that was not a requirement. What are you planning to run?

I will go back and recommend again the Zalman ZM1000-HP, Coolermaster Realpower Pro 1000W and the Corsair HX1000. All of them are considerably below $300 now.
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1200W would be preferred for the sake of headroom (overclocked CPU multiple GPUs and a passel of HDs). I am looking at bang for the buck, and would pay more for the higher wattage. Otherwise, the PC&C 910 (which is underrated at 910W... many consider it a 1000W, but that irrelevent) for roughly 180 looks a bit more attractive.

Thank you for you help guys.
 
Zero82z said:
Well, my top recommendation would be the Enermax Galaxy Evo 1250W, except it's around $350. The 1050W model is currently $266 after mail-in rebate if you're willing to go down in wattage a bit. There's also the Ikonik Vulcan 1200W which is based on a new CWT platform and is a very good performer, although again, it's a bit above your budget. If you're willing to go down to 1100W and deal with a non-modular PSU, this Coolermaster UCP 1100W is a pretty good unit and will fit within your budget.

Out of those options, my preference would be for one of the Enermaxes, followed by the Ikonik.
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Thank for your recommendations.

A bit of history. My main system is presently a dual 8346 opteron with 8GB of ram, a pair of 8800GTSs and a 10 HDs. It is running fine on a 1000W ultra x3. My secondary is a OCed 6600 with a pair of 4870s.... with a dead PSU . I am planning an i7 system with at least a pair of 280GTXs and my HDs. What I would like to do, is move the ultra x3 to the 6600, put the new PSU on the dually..... waiting for the impending i7. So, I would prefer a bigger supply.
 
Noetic said:
1200W would be preferred for the sake of headroom (overclocked CPU multiple GPUs and a passel of HDs). I am looking at bang for the buck, and would pay more for the higher wattage. Otherwise, the PC&C 910 (which is underrated at 910W... many consider it a 1000W, but that irrelevent) for roughly 180 looks a bit more attractive.

Thank you for you help guys.
Click to expand...

In that case you can say the HX850 is underrated at 850W, and the HX1000 is underrated at 1000W. The Zalman may be underrated at 1000W too.
Although I have only seen a single review of the PC P&C 910 and they didn't even pull more than ~400W out of it.
 
omg, this is a no brainer, PC power and Cooling FTMFW.
Lifetime warranty or not, ive had my PCP&C 510SLI since they came out, which was oh.. 3 years ago? being the first SLI certified PSU. it was 250 bucks. Best money I've ever spent. Because my 12v rail is still 12.01v like the day I purchased it. And I run a power hungry system, that runs 24/7. I have a PCP&C 750w, i saw for a great deal, on standby just in case if this PSU seems to fail, ive had this 750w for 5 month now. I have owned 4 PCP&C PSUs all of which still work. lol. Im pretty sure ill go to the grave with them all.
 
Zero82z said:
After reading this review, I'm now a bit hesitant to recommend the EX-1200: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=151

Any comments Jon? The results OW got were very surprising for a current BFG unit. I hope they were just a fluke and the issues he experienced aren't widespread.

The unit Tweaktown tested looks identical to the 1000W model that Oklahoma Wolf reviewed. There are issues with Tweaktown's methodology as well. They only tested the PSU up to a 1000W load, and they did not measure ripple on the secondary rails (which were the problematic ones in Oklahoma Wolf's review - they were way out of spec by the final test). Based on these results, I have to revoke my recommendation of the EX-1200 unless some explanation of these results is provided.
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I agree that the ripple and noise Wolf found on the PCIe were rather high. Frankly, higher than I've seen in my lab and what I've seen in Andyson's test reports. Defective units? Not likely, and even if they were.. like HOOfan said, Joe end user would never know one way or another, which isn't a good thing I admit. I don't know whether to question Wolfs results or not and I too am curious to see the results of other reviews. That said, it is good to know that his implementation of the larger caps reduced the ripple considerably, and the lower is the better whether you're out of of spec or in spec. So I'm looking for a way of increasing the filtering on those two modular PCIe connectors for future production units.
 
JonGerow said:
I agree that the ripple and noise Wolf found on the PCIe were rather high. Frankly, higher than I've seen in my lab and what I've seen in Andyson's test reports. Defective units? Not likely, and even if they were.. like HOOfan said, Joe end user would never know one way or another, which isn't a good thing I admit. I don't know whether to question Wolfs results or not and I too am curious to see the results of other reviews. That said, it is good to know that his implementation of the larger caps reduced the ripple considerably, and the lower is the better whether you're out of of spec or in spec. So I'm looking for a way of increasing the filtering on those two modular PCIe connectors for future production units.
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I'm also very curious to find out how the other reviews end up. I hope that if this is in fact a design issue, you'll be able to take care of it without too much trouble.
 
JonGerow said:
I agree that the ripple and noise Wolf found on the PCIe were rather high. Frankly, higher than I've seen in my lab and what I've seen in Andyson's test reports. Defective units? Not likely, and even if they were.. like HOOfan said, Joe end user would never know one way or another, which isn't a good thing I admit. I don't know whether to question Wolfs results or not and I too am curious to see the results of other reviews. That said, it is good to know that his implementation of the larger caps reduced the ripple considerably, and the lower is the better whether you're out of of spec or in spec. So I'm looking for a way of increasing the filtering on those two modular PCIe connectors for future production units.
Click to expand...

I just ordered one of these EX-1200 units since the HX-1000 I just received from new egg came DOA and made me mad. The reviews I read on it, such as http://www.guru3d.com/article/bfg-ex-1200-power-supply-review-test/ were positive. Now you guys are making me second guess my decision... Should I be afraid of installing this unit in my system? Will a potential fix be made available to those of us who have just purchased our units?
 
The capacitors would fine as OKW demonstrated. A classic tube amp/ car stereo maneuver to eliminate noise.
 
BTW..... I purchased the enermax 1250 galaxy from Mwave @ $307 (after automatic 10 dollar discount).
 
iowamoe300 said:
I just ordered one of these EX-1200 units since the HX-1000 I just received from new egg came DOA and made me mad. The reviews I read on it, such as http://www.guru3d.com/article/bfg-ex-1200-power-supply-review-test/ were positive. Now you guys are making me second guess my decision... Should I be afraid of installing this unit in my system? Will a potential fix be made available to those of us who have just purchased our units?
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Chances are that the kinds of loads you'll be placing on it won't be nearly high enough for you to actually encounter these kinds of issues. Unfortunately, there aren't any proper reviews of the EX-1200 yet so we don't know if it'll suffer from the kinds of issues that Oklahoma Wolf encountered in his testing (or even if those issues are prevalent across the entire line, although it does indeed seem that way). However, there isn't too much to worry about unless you really have a monster system (in which case I would recommend that you exchange the PSU for a different model to be on the safe side).
Noetic said:
BTW..... I purchased the enermax 1250 galaxy from Mwave @ $307 (after automatic 10 dollar discount).
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Very nice. That PSU is quite possibly the best unit on the market.
 
iowamoe300 said:
I just ordered one of these EX-1200 units since the HX-1000 I just received from new egg came DOA and made me mad. The reviews I read on it, such as http://www.guru3d.com/article/bfg-ex-1200-power-supply-review-test/ were positive. Now you guys are making me second guess my decision... Should I be afraid of installing this unit in my system? Will a potential fix be made available to those of us who have just purchased our units?
Click to expand...

You are absolutely certain the unit was DOA? You plugged it into known working components or did you just plug the unit into the wall and flip the switch?

The observations that Jeremy made in his review wouldn't be related what so ever to a DOA unit. That's very strange if it is DOA and if you'd would, I'd like for you to contact me directly so I can personally look into your situation.
 
JonGerow said:
You are absolutely certain the unit was DOA? You plugged it into known working components or did you just plug the unit into the wall and flip the switch?

The observations that Jeremy made in his review wouldn't be related what so ever to a DOA unit. That's very strange if it is DOA and if you'd would, I'd like for you to contact me directly so I can personally look into your situation.
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Reading fail :p. The HX1000 was the DOA PSU. He just ordered the EX-1200 and hasn't used it yet.
 
Zero82z said:
Very nice. That PSU is quite possibly the best unit on the market.
Click to expand...

And at 307, it was a sale! Frankly, after researching further it was either that one or the Ultra x3 1600. I have had great luck with my ultra x3 1000 over the years and the 1600 had some fine reviews. But as you said, the enermax 1250 might be the best on the market.

david
 
JonGerow said:
You are absolutely certain the unit was DOA? You plugged it into known working components or did you just plug the unit into the wall and flip the switch?

The observations that Jeremy made in his review wouldn't be related what so ever to a DOA unit. That's very strange if it is DOA and if you'd would, I'd like for you to contact me directly so I can personally look into your situation.
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As the other poster said, it's the HX-1000 that was doa. And it was an upgrade from HX-620 and the darn HX-1000 wouldn't even power my rig up past the windows logon screen and kept shutting off and making my kaze master fan controller alarms start going off (even thought the computer had just randomly powered off). At that point I rma'ed the hx1000 to new egg and ordered the BFG EX-1200 unit and I'm using my HX-620 again for now. Just getting 1 DOA unit was enough to not make me want another Corsair CWT manufactured unit, so I thought I would try the BFG.

My question to you Jon, are the ripple issues going to be looked into? As one poster said, I won't be pulling that much wattage with my system (overclocked q6600 b3, 8800gts x 2, water pump, and 8-120mm fans). It does however worry me, as I don't want something to get messed up, and I hate to return the psu already (it arrives tomorrow). My whole intention was to just get a bigger psu than the 620 so it wouldn't have to work so hard as I never shut my system down.
 
iowamoe300 said:
Should I be afraid of installing this unit in my system?
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I'm not sure I would be too concerned about it. Right now, it's looking more and more like either:

A) there's something about my SM-268 + auxiliary load setup the design of the EX1000 doesn't like, or
B) this is something that only comes up with the 1kW model, or
C) both samples I had were borked in some way

I'm hoping to land an EX1200 at some point to compare against.
 
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Oklahoma Wolf said:
I'm not sure I would be too concerned about it. Right now, it's looking more and more like either:

A) there's something about my SM-268 + auxiliary load setup the design of the EX1000 doesn't like, or
B) this is something that only comes up with the 1kW model, or
C) both samples I had were borked in some way

I'm hoping to land an EX1200 at some point to compare against.
Click to expand...

Well that puts my mind at ease a little! I look forward to your review of the EX-1200 and I appreciate your input. I will get it installed tomorrow and see how it goes!
 
the PC P&C 910 model would have been great too. I have one running my main rig: i7 920 @ 3.4ghz, 23hdd's, two 4850's, soundcard, two 8-port pci-x sata cards, physx card, and a slew of fans and stuff. does not miss a beat, stable rails. happy to say the least.
 
Sorry about the reading fail. I'm at Computex and my web surfing time is very limited and on either a Blackberry or EeePC. ;)

iowamoe300 said:
My question to you Jon, are the ripple issues going to be looked into? As one poster said, I won't be pulling that much wattage with my system (overclocked q6600 b3, 8800gts x 2, water pump, and 8-120mm fans). It does however worry me, as I don't want something to get messed up, and I hate to return the psu already (it arrives tomorrow). My whole intention was to just get a bigger psu than the 620 so it wouldn't have to work so hard as I never shut my system down.
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Like I've said: I haven't been able to reproduce it. That said, we did the same cap mod Wolf did and it completely eliminated any ripple at all. So naturally, a larger cap on the back side of the PCB is getting implemented.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Frequency Conversion is borking something is measurement. My Weibo tells me the EX Series are > 100% efficient! You know that's not right. I had to buy a Brand meter just so I could test these things!! :D
 
I have an update for those interested. I went back and retested my second sample today. The high 12V3 ripple is still there (don't forget, this is the one I disqualified for having obvious problems - 12V3 hit 300mV). 5V and 3.3V, however, are now well in spec on this one. I got 48mV on the 5V at full load.
 
Oklahoma Wolf said:
I have an update for those interested. I went back and retested my second sample today. The high 12V3 ripple is still there (don't forget, this is the one I disqualified for having obvious problems - 12V3 hit 300mV). 5V and 3.3V, however, are now well in spec on this one. I got 48mV on the 5V at full load.
Click to expand...
Any idea why the results were different the first time around?
 
Oklahoma Wolf said:
Nope. I'm getting closer to the "both defective" notion though.
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Well, it was enough to rightfully scare me into spending a bit more money and purchasing the enermax 1250. Not complaining, though.
 
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