Best monitor? 30" IPS?

A

Antimatter

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
342
I have an Geforce GTS 250 video card, I think should be powerful to drive two monitors without much trouble...

Anyway I have a 20" monitor a NEC 20WMGX2, and I love it, however its 1680x1050, which is starting to feel a bit limited to me which is leading me to seriously consider a 30" display for the sheer amount of visual area available to use.

Anyway I looked around and so far I've seen several choices for a 30" IPS based panels and they're

NEC LCD3090WQXi-BK
Apple Cinema
Dell 3008WFP
HP?

Anyway my 20" is on a monitor arm and I am fully intending to purchase a very hefty arm for mounting the 30"...

Anyway so far I've heard that the HP and the Dell panels has quite a bit of quality issue, including Dell panels OSD menu being software based or so?

Also I'm disinclined toward the Apple Cinema display because they're more of a pain to mount on an monitor arm and its... Apple...

So that leaves the NEC monitor and I am a big fan of them, however I did read the NEC thread and they seem to be plagued by a ton of issues so I'm still not sure if I want to put down THAT much money on a monitor that is being plagued with problems...

Now this is making me wonder if I shouldn't downscale my plans a bit to hopefully an superior quality say preferably say something in the 24-30" range... But if they all are going to be plagued with issues I might be better off going with an 30" so I can have more usable space.

Now normally I use my monitor with a very bright light that is decently to well distributed around my room so there's no source of glares so... Once in a while I do watch a movie, but I tend to use my laptop for that so I can be lazy and not sit at the computer :)

So yeah apologies for this long ranty post but I'm kind of uncertain right now, I was guoho for the LG/HP monitor then heard that it had quite a bit of problems which leads me to look at the alternatives and nothing seems quite that "super"
 
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I just moved off the 20wmgx2 to the HP LP3065. Apple CDs are so pricey but the actual panel doesn't seem to be worth it. Considered the LG W3000H but there are too many backlight bleed issues being reported. Anyway I'm really pleased with the HP so far, but It will probably take a day or two for you to get used to how massive 30" is. I find myself slowly moving back about an hour an hour! heh

Already ordered an ergotron mx desk mount for it.
 
My two Samsung 305t just died on me in less then a year so I'm getting refunded and thinking about going with 2 30' Dells. I still have a 24' dell that has lasted me almost 4 years.
 
Never had any issues with my HP. Having 3 DVI inputs is handy too as sometimes I hook up my MBP to it and all I need to do to change the input is a button.
 
I've had a 3008WFP since February. Amazing LCD. I game on it all the time and never notice the slightest lag. Others claim it's got intolerable lag. Eye of the beholder, IMO. All the inputs are great, too. I've got an HD digital cable box, DVD player, my MBP and PC connected.
 
I havent used anything but cinemas, so I can't really comment, other than to say that I have always been happy with mine. Pricey screens, but great.
 
A GTS 250 is far from powerful enough to drive two monitors if you intend to game -- certainly not a 20" and a 30" LCD. If just using them as displays, then yes, just about any modern card will work fine.
 
My biggest problem with the 30" apple display is it seems that I would have to boot up into a Mac to actually adjust the display settings, plus you have to also get custom mounts for it to be able to mount it to a monitor arm.

Regarding gaming, that is a funny one, because I run Linux, hence I don't really play much games, but I do run some of my favourite older titles such as Baldurs Gate II and so forth in Wine. I also play Simcity 4 which does make a heavy use of 3d for its towers and so forth.

So I don't really "play" games hardcore, but I do play some games in windowed mode.

On the topic of input lag, exactly how noticeable would the 3008WFP input lag be, IE if I right click on a pop up menu will I notice a delay? Or is this more of a gaming thing with full screen FPS?


Then regarding the GTS250 not being powerful for playing games, surely its powerful enough to play some older titles in windowed mode?? Another problem I have with Video Cards in general are they are fucking massive, the reason why I end up with the GTS 250 is because it was a 8.5 inch video card so it would be able to BARELY fit in my Lian-Li case so....

I would like clarification on this? IE if I do some light gaming mainly with older games, such as the majority of them being from the 2004's in windowed mode.

[edit:] I finally digged up a review on the Gigabyte GTS 250 video card here Tweaktown and I see what you mean about it not being able to drive a 30" for a full screen game, but I am honestly wondering if it would still be powerful to drive a game at 1680x1050 or so in windowed mode? Or would it already be strained by just pushing the pixels to the 30" screen? Plus from what I saw, it was able to manage 9 to 30 fps for most of the games in these reviews... Honestly the only game that I have that should even remotely strain the video card is perhaps Knights of The Old Republic....
 
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Antimatter said:
On the topic of input lag, exactly how noticeable would the 3008WFP input lag be, IE if I right click on a pop up menu will I notice a delay? Or is this more of a gaming thing with full screen FPS?
Click to expand...

Most won't notice it at all.
Some tests
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033727674&postcount=80

As for the apple, there are no settings to adjust at all (as with the HP and the 3007WFP(-HC)) except for brightness. The settings you find in OS X are probably just settings for the graphic card.
 
brumwald said:
Most won't notice it at all.
Some tests
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033727674&postcount=80

As for the apple, there are no settings to adjust at all (as with the HP and the 3007WFP(-HC)) except for brightness. The settings you find in OS X are probably just settings for the graphic card.
Click to expand...

Aha alright, I'll look at that thread then. And on the topic of settings, how come there is nothing to adjust for those 3-4 monitors, that makes no sense to me...

My 20WMGX2 has massive amount of settings that I can adjust such as brightness, contrast, sharpness, color balance, etc... And also the NEC monitor I linked also seems to have 12? bit LUT to adjust not like the video card's 8 bit LUT
 
I have the dell 3008wfp and the only thing that bothers me is the lag when switching inputs. Other than that it's been great for the past yr.
 
brumwald said:
As for the apple, there are no settings to adjust at all (as with the HP and the 3007WFP(-HC)) except for brightness. The settings you find in OS X are probably just settings for the graphic card.
Click to expand...

I run OS X and I would still find that offputting, I'm a big fan of the apple cinema displays, but that might make me lean towards Dell
 
Mr. Wolf said:
I've had a 3008WFP since February. Amazing LCD. I game on it all the time and never notice the slightest lag. Others claim it's got intolerable lag. Eye of the beholder, IMO. All the inputs are great, too. I've got an HD digital cable box, DVD player, my MBP and PC connected.
Click to expand...

To echo this, I think the lag may be a bit overblown. I do notice a little bit, but it is no worse than my NEC 2690WUXI and a fair bit better than the Dell 2709W it replaced. I am fairly observant of input lag IMHO.

Just purchased one for a very low price new through Dell Canada ($700 off). I will run input lag tests on it soon against my CRT with a VGA splitter at 1920x1200. Pixel response time seems fine too. Maybe not as good as a Dell 2209WA or TN panel, but good enough for me. I would say my only issue (not unique to the Dell) is the 22 cdm/2 brightness difference between the left and right, where the right is a bit brighter, but otherwise color uniformity is very good and because this brightness shift is gradual from left to right, it's not a big deal for me. The difference in color temperature from left to right (for whites anyway) is only 200 K which is very good.

I also found the sRGB preset is better than expected, though I haven't run any tests for "out-of-box" calibration of this mode yet. Additionally, the white glow typical of X-IPS panels seems far less obvious than my Dell 2209WA.

The other big advantage is all the inputs (DisplayPort, 2xDVI, HDMI, VGA, component, composite) and the built-in scaler which works amazingly well with HD devices like my Xbox 360 and PS3, with proper aspect ratio scaling of 480p, 720p, 1080i/p. The scaler is unique in this panel size, and only the LCD3090WQXI from NEC has one as well.

As compared to the NEC, the Dell can go lower brightness without inducing digital darkening (ie. compressing black and white and lowering contrast). I am able to easily go to 120cdm/2 and maintain the stock contrast of around 600:1, whereas the NEC at this brightness level seems to reduce the contrast due to slightly elevated black levels. On the other hand, the NEC has great calibration features that no other monitor in this price range does.
 
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Pyrolistical said:
If you game, get the 3007WFP-HC. A fraction of the input lag compared to 3008WFP
Click to expand...

I second this recomendation. If you want low and undetectible input lag the 3007WFP/3007WFP-HC are the only way to go.

Mr. Wolf said:
I've had a 3008WFP since February. Amazing LCD. I game on it all the time and never notice the slightest lag. Others claim it's got intolerable lag. Eye of the beholder, IMO. All the inputs are great, too. I've got an HD digital cable box, DVD player, my MBP and PC connected.
Click to expand...

I am really sensitive to input lag. I can always tell right away. I've never tried the 3008WFP but I'm scared to drop that kind of coin on a monitor that is reported to have such horrid input lag. In fact almost all the 30" LCD's are reported to have this excluding the 3007WFP and 3007WFP-HC as far as I know.

xxxballa210 said:
I havent used anything but cinemas, so I can't really comment, other than to say that I have always been happy with mine. Pricey screens, but great.
Click to expand...

The Apple Cinema 30" display (the original one, did they ever update it?) used the same panel as the Dell 3007WFP, but cost several hundred dollars more. IMO not worth it. Less features+more money? No thanks Apple. The Dell 3007WFP/3007WFP-HC have built in card readers and a USB hub that the Apple display lacks. .(That's what I meant in regard to features.) Oh and not having a brightness control on the monitor blows as well.

silent-circuit said:
A GTS 250 is far from powerful enough to drive two monitors if you intend to game -- certainly not a 20" and a 30" LCD. If just using them as displays, then yes, just about any modern card will work fine.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm running 3 Geforce GTX 280 OC cards and I want moar!
 
Antimatter said:
Aha alright, I'll look at that thread then. And on the topic of settings, how come there is nothing to adjust for those 3-4 monitors, that makes no sense to me...

My 20WMGX2 has massive amount of settings that I can adjust such as brightness, contrast, sharpness, color balance, etc...
Click to expand...

It's simply because of the massive resolution. There was no chip available to do this and have an OSD when the first 30" displays arrived. They don't even have a scaler so you can usually only drive it with two resolutions (1280x800 and 2560x1600) - any other resolution (that includes BIOS etc.) will give you a black screen.
Fortunately most (all?) modern graphic cards nowadays notices this and scales the image automatically so this isn't really a problem anymore - but it was back then.

It still is a problem if you intend to hook something other than a computer to the display though.


Dan_D said:
I've never tried the 3008WFP but I'm scared to drop that kind of coin on a monitor that is reported to have such horrid input lag. In fact almost all the 30" LCD's are reported to have this excluding the 3007WFP and 3007WFP-HC as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Same for me. Glad I did it anyway :)
And the "horrid input lag" is exaggerated, maybe the first revision was really bad (don't know for sure) but the newer ones aren't bad. Whether they are good enough though is subjective.

There are numerous 30" displays without any lag to talk about, all IPS 30" without any scaler and other OSD settings seems to have close to zero input lag. This includes the Apple, 3007WFP, 3007WFP-HC, HP 3065, LG W3000H. Not that sure about the apple though.

Dan_D said:
The Apple Cinema 30" display (the original one, did they ever update it?) used the same panel as the Dell 3007WFP, but cost several hundred dollars more. IMO not worth it. Less features+more money? No thanks Apple. The Dell 3007WFP/3007WFP-HC have built in card readers and a USB hub that the Apple display lacks. .(That's what I meant in regard to features.) Oh and not having a brightness control on the monitor blows as well.
Click to expand...

I'm always surprised that people think that an usb hub and a card reader really matters on an expensive monitor like this? Who cares if the 1000$ monitor comes with a $5 peripheral or not?

The apple has brightness control on the monitor, two touch sensitive buttons on the right side.

Apple however probably have the worst stands imaginable on their cinema displays so that really is an turnoff.
 
brumwald said:
Same for me. Glad I did it anyway :)
And the "horrid input lag" is exaggerated, maybe the first revision was really bad (don't know for sure) but the newer ones aren't bad. Whether they are good enough though is subjective.
Click to expand...

Well if I ever see one on display somewhere, I'll sit down and see what I think. Unfortunately that's also one of the more expensive 30" LCD panels so I'm not sure I'd go with one even if I liked it. Rather I'd be more inclinded to track down some Dell 3007WFP or 3007WFP-HC monitors instead.

brumwald said:
There are numerous 30" displays without any lag to talk about, all IPS 30" without any scaler and other OSD settings seems to have close to zero input lag. This includes the Apple, 3007WFP, 3007WFP-HC, HP 3065, LG W3000H. Not that sure about the apple though.
Click to expand...

I only know about the Dell and Apple displays. When I got my Dell 3007WFP there were two choices: Apple Cinema 30" Display =$2699 or the Dell 3007WFP =$1399.99. This choice was a no brainer especially given that the Dell has a nicer stand, uses the same panel and even has the card reader and USB hub. Granted those last two aren't deal breakers or anything, but I'm glad I have them. They are just icing on the cake for me.

brumwald said:
I'm always surprised that people think that an usb hub and a card reader really matters on an expensive monitor like this? Who cares if the 1000$ monitor comes with a $5 peripheral or not?
Click to expand...

It doesn't, but given that I use mine I'm glad it's there.

brumwald said:
The apple has brightness control on the monitor, two touch sensitive buttons on the right side.
Click to expand...

Ok, I haven't looked at one in awhile so I'll give you that.

brumwald said:
Apple however probably have the worst stands imaginable on their cinema displays so that really is an turnoff.
Click to expand...

True.
 
They don't even have a scaler so you can usually only drive it with two resolutions (1280x800 and 2560x1600)
Click to expand...
They implement a scaler but a very simple one which just uses pointsampling (nice to see in 1280x800). Input resolution was quite flexible but concerning BIOS post you could easily run into some timing problems - although I had no problems with my 30" ACD (using a nVidia card*) back in early 2005.

Best regards

Denis

*
quite diffcult to get one with DL DVI four years ago (if you wanted to avoid an expensive QuadroFX version)
 
brumwald said:
It still is a problem if you intend to hook something other than a computer to the display though.
Click to expand...

I'm not really, the 20" has coax and composite hooked up to it for cable tv and V(ideo)oIP anyway so I'll keep it for those duties anyway.

brumwald said:
There are numerous 30" displays without any lag to talk about, all IPS 30" without any scaler and other OSD settings seems to have close to zero input lag. This includes the Apple, 3007WFP, 3007WFP-HC, HP 3065, LG W3000H. Not that sure about the apple though.
Click to expand...

So as long as it has no scaler or OSD setting there will be low/no LAG? Once again is this because of the massive resolution involved? This is making me wonder how bad my NEC 20WMGX2 input Lag is because I don't notice anything myself on it, so I would like something that has about the same or better input Lag than this monitor.

brumwald said:
Apple however probably have the worst stands imaginable on their cinema displays so that really is an turnoff.
Click to expand...

AMEN! Now honestly I do not care about the stands because I'm going to be attaching a monitor arm to this 30" monitor (will be expensive I know, but I've fallen in love with monitor arm's floating effect and removal of cable clutter)
 
I think I've narrowed it down to 2-3 monitors really....

NEC 3090WQXi-bk --- Really leaning toward this one but the issues in the NEC thread and the price is kind of making me nervious
Dell 2008WFP --- Not sure because of the flex/backlight leaking i think in the dell thread.
Dell 2007WFP-HC
 
I always wonder why the LG W3000H never seems to get recommended. I've never really seen anyone say anything bad about it. Yet it never seems to get any love. It's actually the one I have my eye on in the event my old monitor dies (or I just have to move up from 24" in the near-future).
 
Hurin said:
I always wonder why the LG W3000H never seems to get recommended. I've never really seen anyone say anything bad about it. Yet it never seems to get any love. It's actually the one I have my eye on in the event my old monitor dies (or I just have to move up from 24" in the near-future).
Click to expand...

And I'm usually thinking that the W3000H is overhyped :p
But yeah, not a bad monitor at all. When I looked at 30" displays I valued the LG W3000H about the same as the Dell 3007WFP-HC and the HP 3065. Although the W3000H has a newer panel it does not seem to be all that different from the older ones. The backlight quality seems to be far more important and the W3000H have gotten quite a few complaints about this - but so has HP and Dell (and everyone else) as well so I figure that the biggest factor is luck :( Which is quite discomforting.

I'm really not a fan of the design of the W3000H so I never saw any real reason to get it over the Dell or HP. And the HP has three inputs which made it stand out among the cheaper 30" monitors. And since older Dell models aren't available here I was aiming for the HP. Right before I was going to buy it though the price skyrocketed and Dell had a campaign on the 3008WFP which put them in the same price-range. So that made my decision :)

Antimatter said:
So as long as it has no scaler or OSD setting there will be low/no LAG? Once again is this because of the massive resolution involved? This is making me wonder how bad my NEC 20WMGX2 input Lag is because I don't notice anything myself on it, so I would like something that has about the same or better input Lag than this monitor.
Click to expand...

When it comes to 30" monitors that seems to be the case. But I see no technical reason for why it has to be so (more than cost, which I guess is the culprit). It seems 20" monitors have a small enough resolution etc. for this to never really have become a problem. Usually this is only a problem that can be found in 24"+ (1920x1200+) displays or displays with PVA which is due to it's overdrive that seems to delay the image. Thats why the Samsung 30" 305t (S-PVA) that has no scaler also has lag. Besides that though, and the drawbacks with S-PVA, the 305t really seems like a good alternative - I was quite tempted by it for a while. In general the 305t seems to have the best uniformity and black level of the cheaper 30" monitors.

Antimatter said:
I think I've narrowed it down to 2-3 monitors really....

NEC 3090WQXi-bk --- Really leaning toward this one but the issues in the NEC thread and the price is kind of making me nervious
Dell 2008WFP --- Not sure because of the flex/backlight leaking i think in the dell thread.
Dell 2007WFP-HC
Click to expand...

The flex is normal, if what you refer to is that the panel is a bit loose (can be pushed back). This is normal on large displays due to the fact that components expand when the monitor is on (due to the heat). Some seems to think that this is unacceptable and is a sign of poor quality. Those claims are completely unwarranted in my opinion.
Backlight leaking is always an issue with LCDs and the larger the panel the bigger the problem.
 
Woo just purchased the NEC 3090WQXi hopes it arrives here soon lol so I can mount it to its brand new monitor arm! wee
 
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