Best graphics card in SFF system?

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maxiedaniels

Gawd
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May 25, 2005
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I currently own a Gateway P6831fx with a 8800m gts.
The graphics card isn't quite powerful enough at this point though, and I'm stuck between getting a better laptop (no upgradability) or building a SFF pc.

But do these computers work with high end cards? I just read a thread where someone said putting the 8800gtx in one is impressive..
I don't even know what the current high end cards are at this point.. But regardless.
 
dingobiatch said:
I currently own a Gateway P6831fx with a 8800m gts.
The graphics card isn't quite powerful enough at this point though, and I'm stuck between getting a better laptop (no upgradability) or building a SFF pc.

But do these computers work with high end cards? I just read a thread where someone said putting the 8800gtx in one is impressive..
I don't even know what the current high end cards are at this point.. But regardless.
Click to expand...

SFF has gotten to the point where it is perfectly feasible to run SLI or CrossFire: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1407916
 
It's important to know that SFF is not just one type of system. It's a catch-all phrase for just about anything that's smaller than a standard ATX case. These can range from nearly ATX sized mATX cases, like the mini P180 down to ITX cases like the SG05. The limiting factor on what cards you can use is generally going to be space, both for the card itself and for a power supply that will give you enough juice.

At this point, mATX cases have reached the point where you can fit just about any card you want in them, and even SLI/Crossfire in some cases, as [Ion] shows. With ITX cases you're going to start running into problems though, if you want to use top of the line GPUs, although a lot of smaller, single slot GPUs are still going to feel like a huge jump from what you're currently using. And even when you find a case that fits the card you want you might still have trouble getting a solid PSU in as well. So, I guess the question you need to ask yourself is, just how small of a SFF do you want.
 
The SG05 (I have one) actually has plenty of room for a graphics card, up to a GTS 250 or even a Radeon 4850/4870. The only limiting factor is the power supply, so I wouldn't recommend anything over a 9800GT/4830 if you are going to be running a quad-core CPU. However, with a low power dual core, a Radeon 4870 is totally feasible.
 
My desire is to play any game at 1920x1080 with 2x AA min. Hopefully at max or close to max details. I suppose crysis can be an exception..
I'm guessing the slimline series couldn't be modded to this point, correct?
My budget is $800, could anyone point me in the right direction?
I'd love to build it myself if I could meet my budget. Being under budget would be even better. :)
 
$800 is more than enough. If it's games that is your main concern, don't spend too much on a CPU. Get at least a GTX 260/4890, cheaper lga775/phenom II chip with 8/6GB memory, and you should be spending only about $500 total. But for a SFF system, you can cram this in just fine, but won't have too much space for quiet cooling.
 
mATX: Go for it. Anything you can pay.
ITX: Not so much, something like a GTS 250 in a Sugo SG05 works.
 
I like the Lianli v350b but it seems a little big (one dimension is 14", I was Hoping for something a little smaller..).
Possible?
 
the silverstone sg-01f is more bread-box-ish than the v351b, and can fit graphics card up to 12" in length.
 
dingobiatch said:
My desire is to play any game at 1920x1080 with 2x AA min. Hopefully at max or close to max details. I suppose crysis can be an exception..
I'm guessing the slimline series couldn't be modded to this point, correct?
My budget is $800, could anyone point me in the right direction?
I'd love to build it myself if I could meet my budget. Being under budget would be even better. :)
Click to expand...

Look for cases and mobos that will fit/support the 12" cards. ITX mobos only support 9" cards so sounds like you'll want something in the mATX class.
 
Suppose I went with the SS sg-01f, (which I read required removal of the HD cage if you want to put the gtx260 in?), what would be a good PSU? (Or general setup?) I'm sorry if these questions have obvious answers, I just want to make sure I do this right.
 
dingobiatch said:
Suppose I went with the SS sg-01f, (which I read required removal of the HD cage if you want to put the gtx260 in?), what would be a good PSU? (Or general setup?) I'm sorry if these questions have obvious answers, I just want to make sure I do this right.
Click to expand...

I've always been a fan of Corsair PSUs, and newegg is running a great sale on corsair PSUs currently, so I'd have to suggest the VX550 (only $70 after rebate), or the HX520 if you want a modular PSU. Other than that, I'm not really sure what you would want, other than it being an AM3 setup for upgradeability. A cheap but powerful graphics card such as the HD4890/GTX260C216 would probably be your best bet.
 
dingobiatch said:
Suppose I went with the SS sg-01f, (which I read required removal of the HD cage if you want to put the gtx260 in?), what would be a good PSU? (Or general setup?) I'm sorry if these questions have obvious answers, I just want to make sure I do this right.
Click to expand...
Don't think you need to remove the HD cage in the SG01F (you're probably reading about the previous version of the SG01 (without the F) that had a different internal configuration). As for the PSU, a lot of people here prefer Corsair. Whatever you decide to go with, make sure to get one with modular cabling.
 
We need to know what internals you plan on stuffing in this rig as well as if you plan on OCing. If you plan on going i7 and OCing, the SG variants are out of the question unless you plan on going H20.
 
my Sugo 03 has had a 9800 GX2 in it for the last 15 months, still going strong.
 
my vote is for the HX520, not only because it's modular, but because it's got enough power for my matx setup.

without proper, sufficient air cooling, stuffing a top-tier graphics card + a quad core into any matx case will turn it into a heat bake.

overclocking will just turn it into chernobyl.
 
I have a couple rigs with a Corsair HX520w psu and I can confirm they are quite good and pretty quiet. Modular as well.MassiveOverkill and Digitalxdna have valid points about heat and what you plan to do with the rig though no matter what psu you decide on. If you are going with an i7 quad choose a case that cools well because you will definitely need it.
 
Definitely not going for an overclocked system. Modular PSU sounds fantastic.
And I'll go for the 260 (ATI software always managed to upset me somehow).
I'd only be putting a single HD in it.. the system would remain pretty basic.
Thank you for the advice everyone. Looks like I can put it together at this point! :)
 
I am looking at TigerDirect right now, and there are tons of XFX GTX260 cards... regular.. black edition.. and then a bunch of ones that are different prices, but seem the same. Is there a difference?

So at this point, I'll do the Corsair 520HX and SS sg-01f. I don't need an insane processor by any means, only one that doesn't hold back the graphics card. Could someone recommend a mobo/proc? Or do the processors come on the mobo's now? (I read something about that somewhere..)

Other than that, I'll do 4gb memory and a Soundblaster I suppose. That and a hard drive, I should be set, correct? Oh, what heatsinks work with these systems?
 
processors and mATX motherboards are still separate.

any oem HSF should work, given you stay w/ stock speeds. anything after that, and you might want to consider an aftermarket HSF that'll fit in the confines of the sg-01f.
 
No real difference between the many XFX cards. Just go with the cheapest GTX 260 you can find and you'll be set. No, a factory OC'd video card is rarely worth the extra cash over a stock clocked GTX 260.

I have the Corsair 520HX and it's an awesome PSU. I do not regret my purchase. With that said, I would not buy a 520HX today now that this PSU is out:
$100 - Antec Truepower New TP750 750W PSU

The Truepower New 750 is built by Seasonic, the same manufacturers as the Corsair 520HX. In addition, it's modular, just like the 520HX, and offers significantly more power on the +12V rail. Granted you don't really need that much power BUT the Truepower New 750 is the significantly better deal. No real reason to go with the 520HX nowadays.

CPU wise, the AMD Phenom II X3 720 is a very good CPU. If you can fit into your budget, the Phenom II X4 945 is also a good choice. Before we can recommend a mobo, we need this question answered:
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.

Hard drive wise, the best bang for the buck hard drives out now are these two IMO:
$70 - Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$75 - Western Digital WD6401AALS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$95 - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

All three perform pretty damn close (no more than 10% slower) to a Velociraptor drive and matches that of the older Raptor drives in performance.

Don't bother with a sound card yet. Try out the onboard audio first and see if it's to your liking. If not, then get a sound card.
 
Not interested in crossfire or sli. Well, it wouldn't work out in the case anyway correct? I mean if it would somehow, I wouldn't mind future upgradability of sli. Don't need FireWire. Nor raid.
I would like a gtx260 with HDMI but I can't find one.
 
dingobiatch said:
Not interested in crossfire or sli. Well, it wouldn't work out in the case anyway correct? I mean if it would somehow, I wouldn't mind future upgradability of sli. Don't need FireWire. Nor raid.
I would like a gtx260 with HDMI but I can't find one.
Click to expand...

Most GTX 260 cards by decent manufacturers comes with a DVI to HDMI adapter. Some SFF cases can fit CF and/or SLI.
 
I actually have an unused C2D T9300 processor, is this too old to consider putting in?
This computer is strictly for gaming and watching movies.

Other than that, my only dilemma at this point is the size vs. performance of the system.
If I did the SG01-F, I would get the GTX260 (or GTX275 actually from what I've read, no?).

I know it is completely opinion, but I'm looking at the SG05 case and it is significantly smaller. Yet I suppose I wouldn't be moving the thing around too often.
And yet again, the GTS250 does seem to handle itself decently.

With either case, I am worried about cooling (I won't overclock but I've read there can be major cooling issues either way using stock proc coolers...)
 
No, it wouldn't be worth putting it in. That C2D T9300 CPU is completely incompatible with Intel socket 775 CPUs and most motherboards that would fit it would be expensive and lack certain features. So not worth considering.

Go with the GTX 260. The GTX 275 is not that good of a buy considering that the HD4890 does outperform it a little bit yet is often $20 to $30 cheaper. So from a cost to performance standpoint, the HD4890 is the better buy in the $200 range.

For 1920x1200 gaming with max settings, the GTS 250 would not be sufficient. The GTX 260 would be closer to your goal.

The SG01-F is a case with decent cooling if you use a third party HSF. As for the SG05, yes you do see higher temps but its still within acceptable limits.
 
Fair enough, 260 it is.

Is the Phenom II x3 710 right for this system? Or do I need to splurge more on this CPU?
(link)

Again, I'll be doing 1920x1080 at all times. At least 2xAA.
 
Yeah, they could be, but that's what OCing is for ;)
 
Skott said:
Look for cases and mobos that will fit/support the 12" cards. ITX mobos only support 9" cards so sounds like you'll want something in the mATX class.
Click to expand...

Really? My mini itx setup will fit any card up to 11.5", not counting the projection that attaches it to the case, if you measure the card with that projection then it'll fit a 12" card.

It ain't even all that special, a cheapo chinese case, and an old minix mobo. It'll fit almost anything so long as it has a 1 slot cooler.
 
Why would a motherboard have a card length restriction anyway? A case a different matter, obviously.
 
If I go with the X3 720 Black Edition, which motherboard should I be looking at? Any recommended ones to look at? mATX, I suppose SLI support wouldn't hurt.. good onboard audio.. no need for RAID.
 
dingobiatch said:
If I go with the X3 720 Black Edition, which motherboard should I be looking at? Any recommended ones to look at? mATX, I suppose SLI support wouldn't hurt.. good onboard audio.. no need for RAID.
Click to expand...

Unless you already have a Geforce card, DON'T get one. This DFI has 2 PCI-E slots, but it has an AMD chipset so it only supports CrossFire. If you get it, the Radeon 4870 1GB/HD4890 would probably be the best option in your price range
 
I don't understand.. X3 720 is an AMD chip, why wouldn't I want to get it if I go with that board?
Also, I really do want to go NVIDIA. I found a good deal on a used GTX275. And I really haven't had good experiences with ATI cards in the past.

My ideal MB would be mATX, do SLI, have WIFI, and have good onboard audio.
 
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dingobiatch said:
I don't understand.. X3 720 is an AMD chip, why wouldn't I want to get it if I go with that board?
Also, I really do want to go NVIDIA. I found a good deal on a used GTX275. And I really haven't had good experiences with ATI cards in the past.

My ideal MB would be mATX, do SLI, have WIFI, and have good onboard audio.
Click to expand...

You would want the 720, it's just that AMD chipsets don't support SLI, only Crossfire. If you want SLI, you'll have to go for an i5/i7 setup that has been approved for SLI.
 
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